1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Removal of Faction Arties.

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by Vaelix, Mar 26, 2010.

  1. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    For those of you that want the Removal of Faction Artifacts. I wanna know why..

    None of this "Becaue" Stuff.. I want a Detailed list why you, in your opinion, think faction artifacts are detrimental to Siege and Its population.

    We already know Who the people are that support the Idea of Faction Arties being removed from Siege.. Lets hear *Exactly* Why.
     
  2. Chardonnay

    Chardonnay Visitor

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    2,876
    Likes Received:
    1
  3. Black magick

    Black magick Guest

    good luck getting them to say so.
     
  4. GonthraX

    GonthraX Guest

    Because it gives those willing to partake in the risk of faction endeavors an advantage over those unwilling to?

    Just throwing it out there.
     
  5. Bruin

    Bruin Guest

    #1 -

    There is a problem with non-arti based combat, generally based around the fact that dexxers can dominate. It is simply that:

    1. A pure dexxer only needs +15 HCI jewels/weapons to compete.
    2. A bushido dexxer gets this +45 HCI with lightening strike at a absolute minimal cost of 5 mana.
    3. Imagine the bushido dexxer that loads up on +15 DCI jewels and runs around spamming lightening strike for 45 HCI and crit damage. They'd be unstoppable with out arties.

    Most other templates, including chiv warriors but particularly mages need casting jewels and either HCI or DCI to compete, making it much more difficult to acquire.

    So we've identified a problem. There are multiple solutions to this problem, of which two suggestions could be (but will never be followed) are get rid of HCI/DCI in PVP, or reduce the cap to say 20. 'Nerf' bushido so that it either takes 20 mana for lightening strike OR it only gives 20 HCI in pvp. These aren't well thought out suggestions, I'm only statings these to get people to think that A. We have a problem, and B. There are multiple solutions to this problem. Another suggestion would be allowing HCI/DCI to be imbued on armour, at reduced costs.


    Another way to deal with this problem is with artifacts, since artifacts contain HCI/DCI on them, thus levelling the playing field. Unfortunately true artifacts are hard to acquire, cursed artifacts no longer spawn, so the devs opted to release Faction Artifacts. And here they are.

    The problem with faction artifacts from a Siege perspective:

    First I'll quote Kelmo:

    I'll add that try to honestly pvp as a non-factioner. It just can't happen. Maybe it's easy for you rich folk, or those of you that have 600 cursed arties in storage somewhere. But I dare you:
    1. Take 500k gold (a fair sum of money as it probably takes 3-4 hours to get this sum of gold),
    2. Get naked except your single siege bless item (a nice weapon for a dexxer or 1/3 ring for a mage)
    3. Spend only 1 hour, walk around all the vendors of Siege, and buy whatever suit/equipment you can find to pvp with.
    4. After you've visited all the vendors you can for up to 1 hour, and you have now spent 500k on your pvp suit, go out and try to fight.

    Unless you get really lucky, I'd bet you'd get totally owned by a faction character. Good stuff is expensive and/or very hard to find. And this scenario is how lots of people on Siege live. We don't have 55 HOTLs saved up in our castle.

    Faction people don't have to struggle with this, it's much much easier for them to farm for several hours and get out a suit that dominates. And you should not HAVE to be in factions to pvp. A person should be able to defend themselves from a factions person if they are attacked.
     
  6. Førsaken

    Førsaken Guest

    WoW ------------------------------------------------------------>

    Just throwing that out there. :p
     
  7. GonthraX

    GonthraX Guest

    None of those games ------------------------> wait there isn't a direction for that =0

    They see me trollin... They hatin...
     
  8. Diablo FTW

    Diablo FTW Visitor

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2009
    Messages:
    2,288
    Likes Received:
    0
    gonthrax heh.... ive got ur account if u want it back? :p
     
  9. GonthraX

    GonthraX Guest

    Which one?
     
  10. Førsaken

    Førsaken Guest

    Man...I thought WoW consumed you?! I heard you were a hardcore raider lol. Pally I believe? ><

    Thinking about a UO comeback? That's why I never say I quit, or sell off my main(s). *wink*
     
  11. GonthraX

    GonthraX Guest

    Yea I haven't played wow since we downed KJ. Yes Pally is correct, prot before it was accepted ;)

    Comeback doubtfull, I was telling some people about the ban REV petition, searched, found that other REV thread, saw this one, trolled, and this is the result =)
     
  12. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    #1 of yours completely supports Arites / Faction Arites.

    2. The removal of HCI/DCI in PvP isnt going to happen, this game is based and tailored around Production shards, we cannot ask for Huge Changes like these, We can however ask for Lower Prices on Faction gear so that, Anyone who is willing to Risk Stat Loss and Being freely attackable anywhere, gets the reward of Obtainable Arties to PvP with.

    3. Instanced Faction gear doesnt belong on Siege, I do agree with that.

    4. In Mage Versus Mage PvP, Non Factioners shouldnt struggle to survive unless they lack player skill. This is not the case with Dexxer PvP. As i've said before, generally the rule is :

    Vs Dexxer, Your Suit makes the difference.

    Vs Mage, Your Skill makes the difference.

    5. You do not have to be in factions to Survive against a Faction Suited character. Our Arties do not give us 100% Instant Kill when we cast or Hit with weapons, If your using this excuse in lets say a Crafters defense..

    I can kill a Crafter while completely Naked with Nothing but Regs on me. its not the Suit. Wyrm did a pretty good job of this.

    6. Faction people don't have to struggle with this, it's much much easier for them to farm for several hours and get out a suit that dominates. This actually encourages More PvP.

    7. And you should not HAVE to be in factions to pvp. If a player isnt willing to lose the Faction Gear, what makes us think that they will be willing to lose the Cursed / Other Arties. People say, "Well they can be farmed and obtained at an unlimited quanity" Well, Faction arties can be farmed and Obtained at an unlimited quanity.

    What is so Bad about being in Factions? Is it the fact that you are freely attackable anywhere and the guard zone becomes useless? *IF* This is the case.. Then.. well.. You shouldnt be PvPing in the First place.
     
  13. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    Note : I fought Imhotep for about 20 Mins 5 Days ago.

    He was on a Non Faction Character with Non Faction Arties on. He did very well, In No way at all did my suit overpower his.

    What is preventing the rest of you Non Factioners from doing this?
     
  14. GonthraX

    GonthraX Guest

    *cough* effort/skill *cough*
     
  15. Kael

    Kael Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,728
    Likes Received:
    108
    !!!!!What you had a good fight without being overpowered to a faction suit!!!
    I guess everything is solved then. You can grab yourself an "original" Imhotep suit and drop factions. Then we can all wait to see whether the new faction changes actually put forth a reason to be involved in factions.
     
  16. Sir Morder

    Sir Morder Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Messages:
    1,745
    Likes Received:
    114
    Just my opinion, i see no need for faction arties for anyone EXCEPT maybe the pvm'r. IF faction arties were never introduced, we would still see the same group usin and buying up the runic stuff (which benefits the non-pvp'r i.e. crafter), which in turn helps the shard as a whole. There would still be the same "elite" pvp group vs. the rest of the shard and the so called "elite" pvp'r would still have the same ratio of advantage seeing as they are using the high end runic gear. In my opinion, i think the peep's that would like to keep the faction gear are just used to getting super uber stuff with minimal effort. Many people have already stated they have millions of silver already from afk farming. Who's the person wanting to lower the cost of faction gear? Hell, raise it up to 50x prodo cost LOL people here can already afford it LOL. just my opinion...
     
  17. Bo Bo

    Bo Bo Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    792
    Likes Received:
    429
    So anyone new to the shard would have to work that much harder to be in equal gear. That is what most of you are missing. There arent many cursed artis left floating around, and without being able to imbue hci and dci on armor you are leaving the new folks to the shard in the gutter to be the Havenots.
     
  18. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    2,404
    Likes Received:
    127
    Stop making sense. These people don't understand that kind of talk.
     
  19. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Patron The DarkOutlaws, TDO

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2001
    Messages:
    17,280
    Likes Received:
    3,230
    Some of us get tired of writing the same over and over.
    You may get the last word but that do not mean you are right. I hope the devs can read better than you and decide what is best for the shard.

    My main reasons is:
    1. NPC's/trade boxes should not sell artifacts.
    2. Items should not be for one group only
    3. Items should not have owner tag
    4. Items should not be the reason to join faction
    5. Faction artifacts have to go
     
  20. GonthraX

    GonthraX Guest

    I now know what these items are and I retract my previous trolling.

    While they seem delightfully twinkish they are not in keeping with the sentiment of the shard.

    Freja: x2
     
  21. a ghoul

    a ghoul Sage
    Stratics Veteran Gilfane

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2007
    Messages:
    512
    Likes Received:
    8
    they take too long to farm...hella boring if you ask me :gee:
     
  22. GonthraX

    GonthraX Guest

    Just curious, how long do they take to farm and how does this time compair to farming doom for the arti you want?
     
  23. a ghoul

    a ghoul Sage
    Stratics Veteran Gilfane

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2007
    Messages:
    512
    Likes Received:
    8
    Why would you want to farm doom when faction artifacts are better and you can get them by yourself.

    Drop the bound to owner thing I think it could help a lot and it would surely save time.
     
  24. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    3,471
    Likes Received:
    81
    Recently (LoL) Siege perilous has become a ghost town, Many of the preexisting players have begun quitting / deactivating their accounts.

    The main reason behind this, Is the cost of Faction Gear (Silver Costs x5 Prodo Cost).

    Now some players on Siege believe the removal of faction gear will bring more players back and encourage more PvP, However this is a Delusion. Items like the faction gears are required in the PvP that UO has evolved to, Without Faction Gear, Siege Perilous will become a Bushy / Dexxer Fest (With the remaining players that enjoy this type of pvp).

    The Removal of Faction Gear on Siege perilous should not be even considered for the Following Reasons. (We do not have insurance, therefore we lose gear upon death)

    1. Faction Arties (Or Arties in general) are required for Any Mage to Fight *Any* Dexxer, With the Imbalance of HCI and HLD versus DCI.

    2. Faction Arties can be Farmed by almost *Any* PvP Template(Silver). Before faction Arties, players basically had to dedicate their 1 character (1 Per Account) To some form of Tamer due to the Impossibility of Farming with a Non Tamer / Sampire Type Character, Effectively forcing them to have 2 Accounts ( 1 PvPer, 1 PvMer ) In order to actually play the game. Some would argue, just buy the items with Gold. Even gold farming (In ammounts to be able to afford arties) Would need some Pure PvM template, once again forcing players to have 2 accounts.

    3. Faction Items actually encourage PvP, they can be obtained at an Unlimited quanity, thus making it *Much* easier to Re-Equip upon Death. Opposed to No Longer Spawning Cursed Arties, Rare ToT Arties (If they decide to start the drops each year for X ammout of time) or ML Arties which can take anywhere from an Hour to a Week to get the artie you are looking for. (Example Totem of the Void) Which is lost Upon Death.

    ----------------------------------------------------------

    What needs to be done is, Lower the Faction Costs of Arties to that of Production, for the following reasons.

    1. We lose our Gear Upon Death, at the current cost its rather challenging to replace gear very quickly unless you have near unlimited time to farm.

    2. Players that cannot spend Hours upon Hours farming, have begun running Stealth based templates, Which gives them the option of Smoke Bombing when in trouble, Effectively making them impossible to Kill without a Detector. However, when you run a Detector/Tracking Based Character ( I have ) Players which rely on stealth to Survive completely stop PvPing because the reality of losing their gear becomes more apparent. (Due to smoke bombs being near useless against a Intelligent Detector) This results in, Gank Based PvP with Stealth, or PvP Stopping for the day when a Detector comes out.

    3. I have no problem Farming Silver, this is because i work strange hours and am able to Play at times when others are asleep, However, most players can only play on Peak hours (When most people are on) Therefore, farming silver without being disturbed is rather impossible, which *Greatly* lowers the speed at which you can Farm.

    4. A Typical Mage Suit involves the following Artifacts, Faction : Orny, Crystal Ring, Crimson Cinture, Fey Leggings, Folded Steel Glasses, Rune Beetle Carapace. (Or Inquis Gloves instead of Crystal Ring) This is 85-90K Silver. I farm Silver in Blighted on a Mage with EVs, This is basically the *Fastest* way to farm silver. I average 12K Per Hour. Which means at basically the fastest silver farming rate, It takes me 6 Hours at 30 Mins to Farm a Proper Faction Mage Suit (6 Hours and 30 Mins of *Pure* Farming).

    5. A Typical Dexxer Suit involves the following Artifacts, Faction : Storm Grips, Rune Beetle Carapace, Fey Leggings, Primer Tali, Spirit of the Totem, Crimson Cinture. (Possible Ring of Vile, Or Hunteres Headress) This is 55-65K Silver, Once again, At basically the Fastest Possible Farming rate, It is still around 5 Hours of *Pure* Farming.

    6. Most players do not have the time to invest into farming (At the times i listed above) In order to PvP for a *Single* Death.

    7. Alot of us just wanna PvP, The normal prices on production shards for Faction Gear allows this, Replacing a Proper Mage Suit goes from 6 hours and 30 Minutes of *Pure* Farming, to Average, 1 Hour and 20 Minutes, to 2 Hours and 30 Minutes. Thus encouraging more players to log on and PvP.

    8. The Farming Times i Listed are *My* Rates.. 85K of Silver for 6 Hours and 30 Mins of Farming, is *Only* Possbile when left completely Alone, Which for most players, is never the case. Therefore it could take anywhere from 10 Hours to 5 Days to Farm up a Proper suit, Which can be lost within Seconds to a Simple mistake in PvP.

    --------------------------------------------------------------

    With all the recent talk of Changes to the Faction System and all, Im really hoping this will be addressed in Some Sort of way.

    Even a Responce with a reason why it wont be would be much appreciated. Though i do not expect a Dev response, Thank you in advance.

    ~ Skwis.
     
  25. GonthraX

    GonthraX Guest

    So the problem is Non arti dexxer vs non arti mage = Dexxer win given equal skill/luck?
     
  26. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    3,471
    Likes Received:
    81
    Yep no contest... And cursed arties no longer spawn and when Imbuing came out most people broke down what cursed arties they had for relic fragments.

    It was kinda pointless to keep them when you could break them down for imbuing and just run the faction items.

    The items are here to stay so everyone should just try to make them cheaper.
     
  27. GonthraX

    GonthraX Guest

    wtb dexxer account, please include lots of artis?

    j/k ;)
     
  28. Sir Morder

    Sir Morder Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Messages:
    1,745
    Likes Received:
    114
    This is the first of a couple of quotes i will have so here goes:

    If you are playing a mage and you have this thought of rationality, well, you just don't know how to play a mage. I have a mage account thats scrolled out and i don't ever pvp with it, but when i do, i have no problem destroying a dexxor 1v1. All the complaints coming from those that want to keep the faction arti's are from mages that are sub-par imho. I have been playin a dexxor for the better part of 10 yrs and i have been killed by a fair share of mages most of which never used faction arti's. I'm not saying i havent killed my fair share of mages, but what i am saying is that it seems to me that there is primarily only one type of character that is lobbying to keep faction arti's here (mainly mage char's) and there's is a wide variety of characters that are for getting rid of the faction arti's (crafters included). HCI & DCI will cancell each other out if worn by mages and dexxors. HLD property will lower a mages dci to 45% if the mage has 70 dci% (which is no problem to do even without faction arti's). So a dexxor at best is hitting you 50% of the time at best. Where as a mage will cast on a dexxor without the chance of missing for massive amount of damage. What this is all boilling down to is we are hearing massive amounts of complaints from one particular group of players (mainly mages in sp LOL) that are upset because their templates are not able to go out and dominate the shard. Isn't that how this shard was intended? I seem to recall many moons ago that the allure of siege was for every template to be competitive against everyother template. Some templates had an advantage over others, whereas other templates had an advantage over said templates and so on...For this shard to be completely dependant upon having ONE thing in particular goes against everything this shard was set up to be (faction items should not be needed to compete)...I can only hope someone higher up realizes where siege went wrong and makes the appropriate corrections...
     
  29. Sir Morder

    Sir Morder Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Messages:
    1,745
    Likes Received:
    114
    I'll sum this up for ya...Faction items need to go...
     
  30. Sir Morder

    Sir Morder Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Messages:
    1,745
    Likes Received:
    114
    Generally it takes about 6 maybe 8 hours of farming to get a complete suit of faction items...You may spend a week in doom to get ONE item that you want.
     
  31. Sir Morder

    Sir Morder Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Messages:
    1,745
    Likes Received:
    114
    QFT! This is really the only post that the dev's need to read...
     
  32. GonthraX

    GonthraX Guest

    Rediculious.

    Also you must be fin luckin in doom.

    **Edit**
    For those who know me that fact that even I think that is rediculious shows just how rediculious it is. Signature related.
     
  33. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    3,471
    Likes Received:
    81
    Okay Morder why dont we put it to the test? You play the Mage since you say you can destroy the dexer and I will play the dexer... No faction arties, no cursed arties...

    I will destroy you. Let me know when you're ready to do this.
     
  34. Scuzzlebutt

    Scuzzlebutt Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,215
    Likes Received:
    4
    This will never happen. The guy talks double whopper with cheese all day long and is never around to back it up.
     
  35. GonthraX

    GonthraX Guest

    [​IMG]
     
  36. Black magick

    Black magick Guest

    QFT
     
  37. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    Which would be blessed and Never lost.
     
  38. Arden

    Arden Guest

    What do you know about 4 arties a night solo in doom! LAWL! Ahh the good ole days.
     
  39. Arden

    Arden Guest

    Mages take no skill to play.
     
  40. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    3,471
    Likes Received:
    81
    And that was usually an all night thing... not to mention most of the time the arties that hit was the ****ty ones...
     
  41. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    So heres a few questions for all you Cursed Arties crazy people..

    1. Where are you?

    2. Why arn't you PvPing in Cursed Arties?

    3. Do you honestly think 3 MR on a Faction Orny allows Auto Win versus Cursed Orny?

    4. Is extra 5 Dex on a Faction Crimson Cinture basically Hit 100% Kill versus a regular Crimmy?

    5. Are the Resists on Faction RBC and Feys So crucial that you cannot make it up if you were to wear Non Faction Ones?

    6. Can you not Honestly make up with 10% Hci on Faction Storm Grips with Jewels / Cursed Arties?

    7. Is the 10% HCI Bonus on Faction Ring of Vile that game breaking against Non Faction?

    And before you all jump in and say.. "Well if this is the case why dont You just run cursed arties skwis?!"

    Simple, only an Idiot would put themselves at a Disadvantage in PvP, even if its extremely Minor.

    Are the faction arties better than Cursed? Yes
    Are they so Good its game breaking versus cursed? No

    Why are people in Cursed arties getting killed versus facitons? Because 95% Of the Best PvPers are in factions. Is it the Items? No, its the player.

    :thumbup1:
     
  42. GonthraX

    GonthraX Guest

    My wyrm died and the DF 1hit my dexxer... now I gotta recast wraith form /frown

    On another note, oops I accidentially all of them.
    [​IMG]
     
  43. Kage

    Kage Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 31, 2008
    Messages:
    3,471
    Likes Received:
    81
    That pic is from prodo where a guy duped a bunch of items. Nothing like that on Siege :(
     
  44. GonthraX

    GonthraX Guest

    [​IMG]
     
  45. Førsaken

    Førsaken Guest

    QFT, except it was a guild that did it and most got the ban stick on all accts that were involved. Jaster and/Gloria could tell you all about it, they were in that guild. :p
     
  46. GonthraX

    GonthraX Guest

    Um guys, group huddle... The appropriate response was "Ooooo u so bad"
     
  47. Førsaken

    Førsaken Guest

    I'll give you a group huddle when you guys come back and are either against me, or with me! :p

    As in, either way someones getting owned... ><
     
  48. GonthraX

    GonthraX Guest

    So how do you feel about these artifacts in question?

    I say they are wack.
     
  49. Arden

    Arden Guest

    Crack is Wack
     
  50. Førsaken

    Førsaken Guest

    I say all these threads are wack...But that's just me.

    It's all a broken record now and too many non-pvpers feel their opinions are worth a damn. There, I said it! :sad4:

    :popcorn: