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Remove Cap on EP, Change so only chars Alchemists get bonus from EP

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Simon Francis, May 27, 2009.

  1. Change Ecrus back to 75%, Remove Cap on Enhance Potions.

    Elf w/o alchemy (0% Cap)
    Human Character (20% EP Cap)
    25 Alchemy (25% EP CAP)
    50 Alchemy (50% EP CAP)
    75 Alchemy (75% EP CAP)
    GM Alchemy (100% CAP)

    **This would do a lot to make potions more fair, and extra effective for characters whom chose to invest skill points in alchemy.


    Potions could all still be used by regular characters, just without the enhance potions property.

    Flame away.
     
  2. Arch Magus

    Arch Magus Guest

    Sure why not.
    :flame:
     
  3. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    Good idea, I was thinking the same thing but have just never posted it. It doesn't nerf potions because players will still be getting the 21-25 heals per greater heal potions without EP and alchey (which I do on my necro mage). And those who do use the 50 EP, particularly dexers, (unless you're a mage with one crazy ring), won't be chugging away with 31-35 point heals with just 50 EP by itself.
     
  4. Maximus Neximus

    Maximus Neximus Lore Keeper
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    Just curious, does your % cap include the bonus for 10% for every 33 skill points?
     
  5. No it would not.
     
  6. HunterXHunter

    HunterXHunter Visitor

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    Great idea. It will also balance between the haves and have nots.
    There are many templates out there thats very gimp and survive on enhance pots now would indeed help greatly.
     
  7. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    I can see a BIG flaw to this one. A 4/6 chiv bush parry alchemist dexer with 100 EP would be nearly unkillable. That is far from balance...sorry.
     
  8. Maximus Neximus

    Maximus Neximus Lore Keeper
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    With weapon skill and tactics and/or anat no way you'd be able to fit in a good amount of resist. Mana vamp for the win!

    But I definitely see your point.
     
  9. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Already done...

    BTW... what good is mana vamp going to do when each explosion pot will be hitting you for more than the wep special? (there is the mana draught for starters when low on mana...plus heals for 50+ and non fail cures when mana IS low.)

    Temp? easy enough...

    120 wep
    120 bush
    120 parry
    100 alch
    90 tact
    90 anat
    60 chiv

    The suit would not be difficult either considering faction arties, runic armor, and replicas.

    another temp...

    120 wrestle
    120 resist
    120 ninja
    120 chiv
    100 alch
    80 hide
    60 stealth (investigators for 80...oak leaf for 85...)

    Again, this template would also be nearly unkillable. To an established PvP vet, they could last for days...or until the pots ran out. Even without pots there is disarm, 4/6 chiv for heals and cures, and hide/stealth/ninja to boot.

    This is just two cases in which you would be taking an already rediculous template and making it godly beyond belief. I just cannot agree to something that in some cases is overpowered already.
     
  10. HunterXHunter

    HunterXHunter Visitor

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    EP cap is already at 80. (50 from item and 30 from Gm alchy).

    All your arguments can be defeated if the cap of 100ep be lowered to 80.
    Just make alchy skill weight much more than the current 30%.

    Item cap 20 to 30EP while GM alchy provides 50 to 60EP
    End result not changed. Higher skill base PvP lower item dependency.
     
  11. Arch Magus

    Arch Magus Guest

    I can see the first template being decent..

    but the second template?
    "This is just two cases in which you would be taking an already rediculous template and making it godly beyond belief."

    You think the second template is godly beyond belief?
    Looks like a complete puss template to me. :p
     
  12. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Lemme see...*track*...*disarm*...DS...*chuck star* *throw EXP* *throw EXP* *throw EXP* DS...*throw EXP * *conflag pot* *throw EXP* *throw EXP*...*loot body*...*hide/stealth*...rinse and repeat (lets also not forget 4/6 holy light spam...GL with that one)

    Yes, I agree it is a puss temp, but GL killing it. Now, this is already being used...add 20EP on top of the current 80% and you are just asking for it.
     
  13. Arch Magus

    Arch Magus Guest

    Yeah good luck killing that temp

    and also, good luck on killing anything with it.
    :danceb:
     
  14. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    No...it wouldn't be defeated considering you are asking for an increase of 20% above the current cap. If you take a gander at those two temps mentioned you would notice both are using alchemy and both are being used currently in the game.

    Do you understand how much more damage from pots you will do with 100 vs. the current 80 cap? Or how much more you will heal for? In both cases we are talking around 10+ points of damage/heals. Sorry, but a mels wine to the face for 40+ just isnt my cup of tea. Instant heals for 50 are not either.
     
  15. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Apparently you either do not pvp or do not understand how gimp this really is. When used correctly it is devastating vs. any temp...

    pots = 25+ dmg each (add in 3 pot toss macro)
    mels wine = 30+ each
    deathstrikes = 35+ each
    conflag = extra dmg from EP/alch
    holy light for 6-10 = every second

    As you see...most of those are instant when done properly in UOA. If you don't see the potential...I suggest you look around other shards. It is being used...with a great deal of success already.
     
  16. sablestorm

    sablestorm Certifiable
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    Cowboy, I'm not disputing your assertions, mind you, but I'd love to see a YouTube video of these templates in action just for entertain. :D
     
  17. Arch Magus

    Arch Magus Guest

    Yeah, I get it.

    You're gonna be hard pressed to kill me on that temp.
    I'd have to be on foot already to have a chance, no doubt.
    Then you'd have to actually hit me with the pots you throw.

    I commend anyone who could successfully play this template.
    It's merely an assassin pot thrower. An oppurtunist build for sure.
    There's nothing wrong with being creative.

    The alchemy would just make all templates a little more powerful, that's all.
    There's way worse gimp templates out there than that, and they don't even have alchemy or pot throwing.
     
  18. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    I will admit I have had my rear end handed to me by the second temp often enough, but have never had the chance to record its use for others viewing pleasure. :)
     
  19. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    This temp is gimp because it can counter ALL temps out there...including the running shotters wearing the *old* rage quivers. disarm trumps that, and the 4/6 chiv with pots and apples trumps the mage and the necro.

    On foot? That is what bolas are for...and don't forget about ninja stars for the pet.

    Try again?
     
  20. Arch Magus

    Arch Magus Guest

    Try again?

    It's an assassin template, pure and simple.
    An oppurtunist waiting for the right time to strike.

    Try using it against some of the dragon tamer archers out there that know what they are doing. Or the archers riding dreads.

    I don't really see it doing jack to them. Enhanced pots or not. :p
     
  21. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    That template is pretty much what my thief runs, except i have stealing and snoop obviously, no chiv or restist but rest is the same.

    Even when i hold a pot to 1s on the timer it rarely hits the target, they see the pot and move. If you hold it longer they explode in your hand.

    Conflag pots are impossible to hit unless the person comes at you.

    I have got my share of kills(funniest 3 ojs in one exp!!!), but its in no means overpowered.
     
  22. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Depends on your ping...if you have a really good ping you can dial in your pots with UOA...they will never even see it coming. Yes, you will miss time and again when people run around a house...but with 45-50+ heals...what does it matter? :)
     
  23. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Yea to be fair, thats why i have alchy on my thief, i get an extra almost 50hp from a str pot and wolf form and heal around 40ish points.

    When im potted in wolf form im around 170hp
     
  24. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Dragon tamer archer? LOL!

    #1) they are on foot...they arent running anywhere.
    #2) dragons are slow, and can be paraed.
    #3) archers are easily disarmed.
    #4) confusion pots FTW!

    Dread tamers archers?

    same diff...easily disarmed...pets die easy to fire.

    Opportunist? Nope...this temp can run about in the open without much opposition if played right. The only reason for hide and stealth is for DS and last resort escape.

    I think you should ask around before debating this one further. Ignorance is no reason to laugh at what is not understood.

    Again, my whole point is that some people want to see more EP, which in this case would make a nasty gimp godly temp even more gimp, nasty, and godly.
     
  25. Anyone who dies to that templete cowbow probably should have never ventured into fel in the first place...

    lol
     
  26. HunterXHunter

    HunterXHunter Visitor

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    You failed to read my post.

    I suggested the keep the cap the same at 80 but making item only worth 20 while increase alchemy to 60. EP is already ******** as it. It's one item that increase another set of items potency by 50% even without any skill. Or you perfer item-based pvp or skill-based? I mean by lowering item cap to 20 surely making it less item dependent, and the total max potency of potion isnt changed and is still capped at 80. Just that now you need to actually have the "skill" to do it.

    It's very sad that my friend traded his Fel castle + 100m to get his hands on an ecru ring 1/3 50ep 14magery 13dci. A single ring that worth multiple hundred millions while the average (even for those pretty rich) players will not have it. Shows how desirable 50EP is already, putting some skill requirement will help balancing it.
     
  27. HunterXHunter

    HunterXHunter Visitor

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    My samurai dexer have never died 1v1 to date and I dont have alchy or any EP on my suit. I do switch to an ecru from time to time. Your 1st template will only make any decent samurais weaker.

    And as to your 2nd template... OKAY... if you think that's a great power template to pvp with. Ive never seem any serious pvp shards to have one of those wacked out template... But maybe I am just not good at throwing pots.
     
  28. Clog|Mordain

    Clog|Mordain Lore Master
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    I beg the differ. This sort of template doesnt exist on oceania yet, but give it time. It is a viable template. you'd be suprised with it. wouldnt be hard to dismount anyone. go off screen prep bola and stealth on screen. there your target is on foot. throw pots for major damage like that would be deadly, add in 4/6 chiv to heal between heal pots and remove curse between apples. AND if it gets all hairy for u. animal form off til you hide. Oh and add 35 damage from death strike.

    Give is template to a experienced uo player and it would be deadly.
     
  29. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Revnants ftw against that 2nd template... but it's definately viable. A couple good thieves on Atlantic play a variation of it REALLY well... of course mana vame (or omen + mana vamp) and revnant will keep the gimp on their toes... =O

    the 4/6 chiv is a pain regardless, since basically... 4/6 chiv is pretty damn nasty against any template in terms of healing.
     
  30. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    ive been a pvp alchemist for about 6 years. i like this discussion and just wanna throw out a few thing. @cowboy. you may have an alchy idk, and i may be wrong but i really dont think i am. i used to have a 3 pot macro. but even since the change where bombs are removed from the stack before throwing, that macro is now impossible to construct.
    as for timing bombs with UOA this is also not possible and never has been. the delay feature of UOA erases target capabilities. therefore you you will arm a potion and blow up on yourself. im at the beach without UO so i cant test this again. but im pretty sure it conflicts. im not saying there arent ways to automate timed throwing however. just saying.
    as to a comment made earlier, cures are already non fail. even on a char with 50 camping and 50 tailoring and no ep at all. i do hope they make changes based soley on the fact that everyone uses cures for 99% cure rate against lethal with no skill or ep. i find poising useless in pvp sometimes
     
  31. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    I understand your argument. However, I would like you to propose a solution to the problem not just the problem itself (which I believe the OP was posting this in an attempt to limit the elite templates that utilize potions.) So fess up Cowboy and let us hear what you think would fix these templates. I thought the diminishing returns was a great idea to begin with. Somehow it went down the drain or something though. Maybe it is still on test. That seems to be the best fix though. The more you use it, the less effective it is going to be and alchy lessens the diminishing effect.
     
  32. This templete is a joke.

    120 wrestle
    120 resist
    120 ninja
    120 chiv
    100 alch
    80 hide
    60 stealth (investigators for 80...oak leaf for 85...)

    Any real pvper would run as soon as his opponent landed his first deathstrike, not stay there and take explosion/conflag pots/holy light.

    This templete would have pretty much 0 chance to kill anyone with half a brain. It would not be much of a factor in group fights either, unless its purpose was to get a lucky bola dismount after a character was paralyzed.

    A greater dragon archer dismounter would absolutely wreck that character. One Dismount+Firebreath+Dragon Bite insta death for most, just may take a few tries.

    Also if you honestly believe that this templete would be anywhere near effective towards people who pvp regularly, which I don't think you really do, then keep cap at what it is now, problem solved.
     
  33. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    You do not get out much do you? This template I mentioned can wreck most temps in no time. Did you forget about para...and did you forget that you can set the timing on your pot throws? Did you also forget about the supernova potion? How about bolas?

    Again, you do not get out much...do you...

    Evidentally you fail to see how 20 EP MORE would have such a negative effect on the game. Leave things as they are, the devs. balanced pots the way the did for a REASON.
     
  34. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Again, read where I mention a good consistent low ping....this makes all the difference. (a consistent low ping allows the chucker to dial in their pots with fine precision) The pot toss macro STILL works well...you just need to know how to impliment it.

    Cures are not non fail...especially if your opposition uses poison...or EO poison.

    There was a char named BONEYARD on atl that used this temp with great effectiveness on atl. Don't think so? Ask around...plenty of people remem how devastating it is.
     
  35. You are a horrible pvper if you die to that templete.
     
  36. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    What would fix these templates?

    1) set a cap of 2/6 on chiv regardless of magery...especially considering this is a secondary skill with no other skill needed to use it.
    2) keep pots where they are...EP was limited due to overpowered temps to begin with.
    3) set a timer on cures and trapped boxes (make resist a necessity to eliminate some of these hybrid temps)
    4) set diminishing returns on certain spells/items (EO spam...poison spam...harm spam...pots spam...ect. ect)
    5) make all useful event items into rotating (one month the major is one item...the next something else...rinse and repeat) replicas...so those who dont have 200+ mil to spend will have the same opportunity to compete.
    6) eliminate mage weps altogether...a free wep skill to those with magery for no penalty (see crystalline ring) and gold is a big joke.
     
  37. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Feel free to hit me up with a pm if you wish to set up a challenge. I am avail on atlantic or LA. The only thing horrible here is your comprehension.
     
  38. I don't need to xfer to experience what I already know... if you die 1v1 to that templete you blow. It is great for staying alive, but you are literally not right in the head if you don't know when to book it.
     
  39. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    lmao...

    you see...this is the problem...you fail to believe what you dont understand. (some would say that makes you not right in the head.)

    you had a nice concept, but its been debunked...end of story.
     
  40. If you play atlantic, then you must know my good friend Chad/Avril. Fight him and let me know how your templete works out.
     
  41. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Heh...Chad? you mean the speedhacker who runs off screen anytime he gets low? Try again.

    Nice name drop tho noobert...how many times has he been banned?
     
  42. Rabbit of Hot, please ICQ me when you want to prove how pvp worthy that templete is. I have several friends on atl who would be more than happy to let you try. 210-378-401
     
  43. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    I dont play the template dippy...I only brought the temp up to debunk your lame attempt for a EP change. If you lrn2read...you might notice I mentioned the name of the char who played the template. Try again.

    I play scribe swords mage...nuff said.

    Ur buddies? I don't give two cents about VIP/SX/LOLz/ect ect. Its ok though, I hear a couple of them are looking for items to dupe...I guess you must be their source. Good for you!
     
  44. so... you challenge him to a duel to prove that you're right about this template, but you had no intention of actually using the template in question? are you 12?
     
  45. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    instead of ruining this thread....

    can you prove that tri bomb works. because i pluged it in UOA after stacking changes and threw one bomb. We may have to get that script from another player since the alchemy thread was destroyed and replaced with a forum for gardeners which makes no sence.......

    can you explain how to implement this into UOA? timeing that is. with UO's networking considered. i cant really say ping is ever that consistant.

    Im definatly not saying the temp sucks, as i throw pots in pvp. But i have to say that thinking back on it i havent seen anyone throw a bomb in fel in like 8 years besides me and two friends that were inspired a year back. who both play archer bombers.

    im not even sure what this means

    Cures are not non fail...especially if your opposition uses poison...or EO poison.

    i would never recomend useing a cure if your not poisoned...
    i may have said it poorly. i mean that greater cures work 90-99% of the time. ive handed a friend on a few occasions 20 GCs and spammed lethal poison. cures first time 10/10 on many occasions.

    things id like to see in UO for pvp are
    skill level in poisoning having something to do with its difficulty to cure and not just the level of poisioning + chance.
    and or the effectiveness of cures altered.
    i did like the idea of immunity when it came to cures. be interesting to see how that worked with poison as well.
     
  46. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    No...I challenged him for calling someone a horrible pvper. I never mentioned running that template...did I? Dumba$$

    The motivation was simple...if I kill him and the pot chucker can kill me...he must be a horrible pvper according to his own logic.
     
  47. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    It still works the same...just need to implement the timer correctly. Try setting up three stacks of pots if you still have trouble.

    In reply to the ping issue...when you live near the server...consistency is no issue. The person who runs this temp on ATL (or wherever they are now) consistently pings 12-15. The three MS differential is not enough to mess up the pots timer.

    In reply to the poisoning bit...I was speaking of the poisoning skill...not the spell. Often times you fail when curing DP with GC.
     
  48. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    i'll see what i can do. the script on the alchy forums had you place three stacks in three different bags. maybe i can find an updated one out there or make a new one. ive got a pretty cool "method" i guess, of setting off 5 at once next to someone thats been fun.
    to bad the entire forums HAS BEEN DESTROYED!!!!@!!!@#$ GAH!!!. sorry. had to let that out.

    thinking back i can relate to the ping thing, i had a friend to lived in RI who constantly pingd 12-18 ish like you said. i hated it so much i forced him to move down here and room with me.
     
  49. Daelomin

    Daelomin Journeyman
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    ...the idea with alchemy requirement is nice. But dont change the rings back, let them still be 50. Let the total cap be 75.

    I would suggest:
    Elf w/o alchemy (0% Cap)
    Human Character (10% EP Cap)
    25 Alchemy (25% EP CAP)
    50 Alchemy (50% EP CAP)
    75 Alchemy (75% EP CAP)
     
  50. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Stupid idea.

    To get full EP they dont even need to GM alchemy, think about it.