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Remove Guard Zones in Felucca

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Omnius, Feb 28, 2011.

  1. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    When guard zones were removed from felucca, pvp outside of dungeons had the potential for being fun. No guards to instant kill people. You could cross heal without dieing for it. Thieves could rob and steal without repercussion from some silly instant death.

    It was better.

    Please remove guard zones from felucca again, all decent pvpers would appreciate it.
     
  2. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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  3. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    /sign I don't even play there, just never understood guards either. maybe it's turning into another tram - 1st zones, then the rest, next is flowers & grass
     
  4. Sunchicken

    Sunchicken Guest


    I would love to see guard zones be removed from faction towns, moongate areas, and entrance/exits to dungeons/t2a.

    I dont think 100% of guard zones should be removed from fel.
     
  5. Tinsil

    Tinsil Guest

    Would be happy with this. Remove them everywhere though, not just towns, but moongates, etc. as well.
     
  6. Vlaude

    Vlaude Lore Keeper
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    I would say especially the moongates. Guards in the towns makes more sense to me but removing them from moongates would be excellent.
     
  7. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
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    moongates yes, bank areas and shops no (though I'd prefer if guards didn't instant kill, which is the real issue, but tailors, smiths, and such shouldn't be a free pk either in the the middle of town.)
     
  8. Tinsil

    Tinsil Guest

    I guess this would be a different issue entirely on Siege.

    I think we were talking for the other shards that have both tram and fel, where eliminating guards in towns in fel is not a major issue.

    Guards should definitely be kept in towns for siege rulesets.
     
  9. Sydd

    Sydd Guest

    I'd like to see them add champion type spawns to Fel cities. They start out a neutral spawn. Spawn the champ ...kill champ the city turns into whatever Faction guards the people that killed the spawn was and that faction controls the city for say 4 hours till can do the champion for that town. The guards will attack on sight anyone of opposite faction or neutrals for not being in their faction

    If neutral faction does the champion then it reverts to the neutral spawn...etc
     
  10. NO! There has to be some spot safe from blues being ganked.
     
  11. Maximus Neximus

    Maximus Neximus Lore Keeper
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    100% agree

    I'd also like to add that non-faction characters shouldn't be allowed to enter faction towns. That way no non-faction blues or reds can interfere with fighting.
     
  12. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    Where are blues ganked? I never see blues ganked in felucca. I do know that most pvpers consider non faction blue characters to be in felucca purely to abuse guard zones and attempt to engage in grief play.
     
  13. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    I never knew my unguilded miner was going to Fel to grief... after all these years and ingots mined up... who knew!
     
  14. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    There is. It's called Trammel.
     
  15. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    No offense, but guard zones only really comes into play if you are working a gank or attempting to heal a red. As far as I am concerned...the guard zones give players who 1vs1 an opportunity to avoid ganks and pick their fights.

    If the opponent is factions...it doesn't matter. If the guildie is red, well...I think you should consider the rules within the game. If you want it to be like it *used to be*...they could always make reds unwelcome period.
     
  16. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    not every fight in a gank. Guard zones pose a major nerf to small groups of mages. The people suffering the least from guard zones are archers and other dexers.

    It's great not losing any of your efficacy when you run into a guard zone on archers, it's pretty much crippling for mages.

    There is nothing like knowing that if your opponents run to guard zone, you and your guildmate are at an immediate disadvantage because you can no longer utilize your template fully.

    I find the only people who support the felucca guardzones staying are people that don't play mages at all or are blue non faction players that think yelling guards makes them good.
     
  17. As far as I can recall, and I recall far... There has always been guard zones in Felucca. If you are not happy with it you should consider using forged pardons so you can heal your friends or stop doing criminal actions so you don't get whacked.
    Not everyone on Felucca is a Red, actually I am 100% for setting back skill loss.
    You have to remember old timers have been on Fel for immersion, not necessarily to grief play. I do know that nowadays Fel players are trammies who go there just to enhance their playstyles and dont give a shot to veteran players. I also know that when you are in faction you don't get counts for killing someone from another faction. So if you have counts, you did something bad, you have to pay the price for it. And that price should be Skill loss tbh.
     
  18. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Ok, I would say don't get rid of the guard zones as they are, but make the following changes in Felucca.

    - Healing/buffing a red member of your own faction turns you grey but doesn't flag you criminal (ie. you can be attacked but guards cannot be called on you).
    - Discording pets is an aggressive action that follows the normal faction/non-faction aggressor rules.
     
  19. Risso

    Risso Babbling Loonie
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    He was probably referring to 'non PVP' blues who still use Feluccan towns for whatever reason. You don't see them getting ganked because they are in town, in the guardzone...the same one you want to remove. Is your aim to push people to Trammel?
     
  20. Tinsil

    Tinsil Guest

    This would at least help, even though it's not as good as getting rid of guards period.
     
  21. Daelomin

    Daelomin Journeyman
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    No - keep guard zones. It will serve as a little incentive for new people to try and play in Felucca.

    If you want to PvP without Guard zones interference, play factions.
     
  22. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Well, I think there are still some good reasons for guard zones in Fel, though perhaps not as many as there were a few years ago now that most of the real pvp in Fel takes place under the rubric of factions.

    That's actually part of the reason people are asking for the guard zones to be removed. They are interfering with the ability to heal red faction mates, and allowing blues to interfere with factions battles involving red combatants.
     
  23. Factions used to be for righteous people. You used to have all your counts removed when joining a faction. If those people want to play otherwise, then they can't complain of issues with healing in towns. Most of those reds have perverted the faction system. They just play PKs who wanna get control of spawns AND wear uber faction items. They usually also pkill everyone from their own faction.
    The whole faction system is broken, not Guard Zones.
     
  24. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Well, you make at least one good point. It's just a really hard system to "fix" without doing something completely draconian, such as if you are in factions making you only able to attack or be attacked by faction enemies - not a solution I would like at all.
     
  25. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    Bud, I've been around since back in the day. Since well before the bs that was stat loss for reds. I also know that addition is considered by most true veterans to be one of the 2 worst changes ever. I do everything in fel. My crafters regularly beat the pants off of regular pvpers. My pvm chars could wipe the floor with most factioners. My characters are mostly red. I play many shards, I have many reds.
     
  26. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    I don't know what that is. My crafters are all in factions, my farmers are in factions. Frankly, I believe you should have to declare allegiance to a faction to even enter felucca at this point. one of the 4 factions or non-alligned and thus gray to all.
     
  27. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    Ummmm. I've been in factions since they came out. I was blue for a total of like 20 minutes in factions.
    Like most false veterans, you've made a classic mistake. The reprieve lasted a short while for the initial addition of factions. After that short period, the reprieve was ended.
    so UO should just favor dexers and mages are all evil. Got it. /end sarcasm

    They fight and attempt to control and dominate everything? That's pretty much what factions are supposed to be about bud.

    Yep. In UO, the system is as such. Enemies outside your faction are high priority enemies. Enemies outside your guild but in your faction are merely rivals attempting to sieze control of your faction. I question your grasp of in game politics or whether you even play.
     
  28. Interesting assertion. What makes you think I am a false veteran?

    It was designed to dominate towns, and set the economy of towns. Factions arrived like one year before the stupid pub16.

    You very nicely ignored the part where I said that most faction players are in faction just for super arties... In game politics... funny. A player with 10 accounts would probably seize any faction on my shard with going once in his life to felucca...
     
  29. Oddly enough, the introduction of skill loss is when UO started to consistantly gain players. So what do you call "true veteran". UO has never been a shoot them up. If you want to kill people on sight, you can play Quake. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime. All your troubles will be solved the day you are back to blue.

    Oh and by the way, when they introduced factions, reds would be killed on sight when entering a city... Which means you would not see many people around the TB base anyway...
     
  30. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Actually it comes into play if a blue attacked a red then the blue runs back to a guard zone and get cross heals from another blue which the red can't attack. He's protected by guards and can't be targeted by the red which he's technically preforming a negative action against, and the red can't do anything about it :/.
     
  31. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    I think guard zones should be few and far away from anything. Only at a place of worship like Ankh locations. Really they should be changed from guard zones to "safe zones" it should be a location where you cannot deal damage or be delt damage while you're in it.
     
  32. When the guard zones were last turned off I went to Felucca to buy jewels for imbuing and a red appeared IN the jewelry store with my all but naked, untrained character and PK'd him. He must have been hidden in there for some reason but, for crying out loud... I was in Britain right beside WBB!
     
  33. So, what you are telling me is that you want no one that isn't into PVP in Felucca whatsoever? I go to Felucca to buy stuff, mine, chop wood etc because of the double resources. That is why the resources were doubled there, remember? Because people griped about Felucca being a ghost town. If you want it to be a total ghost town, take out the guard zones.
     
  34. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    so you walk around naked and expect to play with no danger at all? I think you pretty much established you have no credibility. Also, guards were turned on before imbuing.
     
  35. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    Things are doubled because it's dangerous and there is risk of death remember?
     
  36. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Didn't read it all, but I will say this:

    Don't remove them from all towns. Maybe only faction towns. If we remove all towns then it kind of ruins it for those of us who don't care much for non-consented pvp. I'll also disagree with removing them from moongates. I say this because I can already see pks x-fielding the moongates, tossing on poison fields etc automatically trapping anyone who comes in. If not that then immediate ganking the person who comes in, be them a pvper, player wanting to try some pvp, or just a random person. We don't need that bs.
     
  37. Once again, you exhibit your propensity to jump to conclusions.

    1: No, I don't expect to walk around naked and without danger at all.

    2: I was all but naked because I needed to carry the additional weight of the material I was buying. I went to what, at that point, used to be a guard zone.

    3: The guard zone was off and imbuing was ON. Don't believe me? I don't give a flying rat's posterior. That is what happened.

    Since this is the second post of in which you have decided that your version of the story is correct, even though you weren't there and otherwise have NO clue as to what I saw, did or was doing, you get the dubious honor of being the first person that I've felt the need to put on ignore here.
     
  38. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    great.... You made a story up that doesn't square with the time line.

    You admitted to walking around with no defense whatsoever. If I saw you in guardzone naked with valuables. I'd kill you too.
     
  39. Mapper

    Mapper Crazed Zealot
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    Might have a big problem getting people to agree with this when Felucca has double resources.

    Why not allow reds into the guard zones and they can fight other reds/greys. But keep blues safe in town.
     
  40. Daelomin

    Daelomin Journeyman
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    I can understand why some people see this as a problem. But its not a game mechanic problem its a problem of their own by going red. Simple solutions, play faction as blue.
     
  41. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    Because part of the issue is harassing blues spend all their time trying to disrupt fights and then hide in the relative safety of guards.
     
  42. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    Your solution is make more pvp characters? I'm not sure you're aware but most pvpers already need at least 2 characters on a shard to effectively compete there.
     
  43. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    Two things about Fel Guard zones bother me

    1) Blues abusing the ruleset in and around Fel guard zones.

    2) Going criminal and guard whackable for healing a red. Why does healing a red deserve death, when the red who is a MURDERER is allowed to be there? Makes no sense. I would be ok with going gray, but not being guard whackable.
     
  44. Your opinion is very biased. In the first hand, it's reds that grief play blues. If you were not red, then no blue would be able to disrupt your fights with impunity. So go blue, and noone will disrupt your fights.

    Moreover, as you should know, if a blue attacks you, he will turn gray to you, and thus you can attack him within guard zone with no penalty... If you are afraid to be ganked if you go in Guard Zone, then just don't play a Red.
     
  45. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    I say leave the guard zones. At some point, I hope we Trammies can launch an assault to take Fel back from the red murderous rogues, and we'll need launching points to operate from. I'm hoping for perma-death for reds, murderers, and other swine. But I'd accept a simple 14 year headlock in the stocks for the characters and their players alike!

    Come on Devs, we can do this!
     
  46. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    A blue attacks me, and he's gray. His 342587324 friends heal him and they refuse to leave guard zones. If my friend heals me, my friend gets guard whacked. But just for fun, I also can't use my fields, summons or AoEs to fight him.

    A blue regularly interrupts my faction fights to try and pot shot me. I am unable to preemptively kill him and remove that problem before hand.

    And you say go blue and it's not an issue. It's not an issue until blue stealthers then try to bug me, or attack my champs. It's not an issue until a blue guild decides they can just attack a champ I want and if I kill them I'm red.

    Forged pardons? I'm going to spend 1mill or hours treasure hunting for every time I have to defend something that is mine? That's a waste. 48 hours? I don't play 48 hours doing nothing for every time I kill a perceived aggressor.
     
  47. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    Also, remove heartwood from felucca. It only servers to provide a place for bad people to run into after they attack you.
     
  48. Well it seems to me you want 100% for the game for you... Either share your champs to unwelcome people or have people interrupt your fights... It s a mmo so you have to socialize, which means accepting the fact that there are people "hostile" to you...
     
  49. Elden of Baja

    Elden of Baja Journeyman
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    I am definitely anti guard-zone.

    Closest thing to a fix that I can think of without actually eradicating it is that if you engage with any player, you are in combat(grey) and can no longer use guards to defend yourself. If you heal someone engaged in combat you are now in combat(grey) and can no longer use guards to defend yourself.

    Leaves the guards for the non combatants, but takes them away from wanna be pvpers who whine about cheaters/hackers and yet can kill someone with one word, AND INTENTIONALLY TRY TO.

    Only problem left is when A red flags on a blue, and now the blue can just continue fighting the red (Irregardless of whether the red is fighting back) indefinitely and still remain blue and if in guard zone call guards Even if a reflect physical/punch goes off.

    Needs to be some "Self Defense" Time that the blue has to fight back against the aggressor while trying to move to a guard zone, recall, or sacred journey. After that time has passed and they are still fighting/doing damage back, they are engaged and can no longer use guards.

    There are still flaws with that, as I'm sure all the blues will still simply wait for a red to flag on one of them, fight until the timer is up, stop fighting and retreat back to guard zone, but I would be fine with that. I already can't hurt them while they are in guard zone, and there should be a downside to them trying to fight FROM guardzone.

    Exact Same thing with house hiding. If at any time you are engaged under those rule sets you are immediately kicked from the house you are in. No throwing summons, no attempting pop shots, no crosshealing guildmates from the safety of a home. IF someone flags on you and you run back into your house, and you continue to fight from your porch for more than the self defense timer, BAM you are kicked from your house and can't enter houses until you have broken combat for the cool down timer.

    And to the blues who don't like this idea, it also puts reds in a bad spot as well. If a blue flags on a red, if the red fights back past the self defense timer they are also engaged and can no longer flee combat/enter houses.

    This isn't a battle between the evil reds and the good blues, its about the rules of engagement in pvp zones. If it were griefing it would be bannable, its pvp, and considering that less than 1/6 of the world of ultima online is I think people who don't want to be PK'ed can find something else to do.

    I think that's a pretty sound solution.
    Thoughts?
     
  50. If you attack a player, you are in combat (grey for that player), and can no longer use guards to defend yourself (vs that player)...

    So, what do you want to tell? That blue players are using Guard Zone to avoid being ganked?
    So all you want to do in pvp is gank?