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Remove the "reuse skill" timer on Detect Hidden

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by Draxous, Aug 28, 2010.

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Remove the "reuse skill" timer for the Detect Hidden skill?

  1. Yes

    35.7%
  2. No

    64.3%
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  1. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    If deemed low hanging fruit, would you support this.
     
  2. Shh!

    Shh! Lore Master
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    No. I don't mind reducing it further but it still should have some sort of timer.
     
  3. nightstalker22

    nightstalker22 Lore Master
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    No. Detect Hidden benefits The Magery Spell "Reveal" as well, so the timer issue isn't really an issue at all. Further, anyone who hides via the invisibility spell can be revealed 100% of the time by the Reveal spell, whether Detect Hidden is on template or not.

    You can use detect skill, and during the 10 seconds to reuse, you can cast four or five reveals, then use detect skill again. Whats the problem?
     
  4. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    There is no timer between when someone hides and begins stealthing.
     
  5. nightstalker22

    nightstalker22 Lore Master
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    So? This isn't 1999 anymore. We've since added Ninjitsu, Bushido, Chivalry, Necromancy, Myst, a Gargoyle Race, and Elf Race, and many many other things. Items that can be tossed without timers on them, such as explosion pots, and various spells that do area damage.

    You cannot expect someone to hide 10 seconds before using stealth anymore. There is no requirement that you stand still 10 seconds after using detect.

    What good would a ninja be if they couldnt keep up with a target, giving them a 10 second head start, they are 4 or 5 screens away?!?!
     
  6. Roland'

    Roland' Lore Keeper
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    Awesome so if i dont have the magery or regs required for reveal as long as i have detect hidden skill i can still use this spell?
     
  7. nightstalker22

    nightstalker22 Lore Master
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    Don't be silly. Using skills that you haven't invested the points and/or gear into would be Trammelish, don't you think? That'd be like asking for passi... oh. :lol:
     
  8. Roland'

    Roland' Lore Keeper
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    Okay so now if i want to use detect hidden any where near as fast as you can hide i have invest yet even more skill points?

    Wow ya i see your point.
     
  9. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    So... it's not balanced.

    If you reveal a stealther with the detect skill, they can instantly rehide and start stealthing again. By the time you can detect again, the stealther can rehide and start stealthing away... again.

    If you use the reveal spell, you have to stand still until it is ready to be cast.


    I see that you're trying to preserve the ability to only risk conflict with other players on your terms, but this game is supposed to have balance.

    It is currently not balanced. I'm sorry.
     
  10. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    The detect timer has already been reduced from 10 seconds to 5 seconds within the last year. Stop crying already and learn your game mechanics, mister expert!
     
  11. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Don't forget the skill points in tracking you will need because by the time you're ready to reveal, the stealther has already left the building.

    320 skill points (to properly reveal?) versus 175 to properly stealth.

    That is not balance.
     
  12. Roland'

    Roland' Lore Keeper
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    Good point its not 1999 any more. Thats why they added passive detect.
     
  13. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    The detect timer is the same as the hiding/stealth timer.

    What was that you were saying about game mechanics?
     
  14. nightstalker22

    nightstalker22 Lore Master
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    As an assassin and an opportunist, yes. I prefer the battles to be on my terms. Who are you to deem they should be on YOUR terms?
    Considering I am at a heavy disadvantage, up against faction suits and UOA macros, and myself being 2D without UOA and gm Armour, you would think that I'd be the one posting about nerfs.

    I do not use smoke bombs, potions, petals, or anything else that requires me to click on something in my pack, as I don't have the "easy button" of UOA to do that for me. Try living in MY world before you nerf it. Whats the matter, cant hack it?
     
  15. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    The terms should be balanced between the template you run and the counter to it.

    Currently they are not.

    It needs to be fixed.
     
  16. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    So the only No votes thus far are from players who abuse stealth.

    Perfect. :)
     
  17. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Ru and I have both been through this with you before. I suggest that while you're gnawing on that bug ugly foot of yours, you go test this out.

    Poor Drax, just as BSC as ever!

    Btw... IBTL
     
  18. John Connelly

    John Connelly Journeyman
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    I would have said yes to lowering it but that has already been done. So now its 5 seconds between detect attempts and 10 between hide attempts. Seems more than fair.
     
  19. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    We've been through this before too. I have tested it out and so have others. The timers the same. Do you think the Devs don't know it's the same? Do you think some poor sap reading this who might believe you will vote no simply because you're trying to twist things?

    Nice try though.

    I expect you to do everything in your power (lie, exaggerate, twist, manipulate) to preserve the advantages stealth gives you.

    :)

    EDIT: Apparently John Connelly was "some poor sap" who believed you. :(
     
  20. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Considering it's not, I'll petition Petra to move your vote to the appropriate column.

    I can't fault you for Kat's attempts at misleading you. :)
     
  21. John Connelly

    John Connelly Journeyman
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    Make a new poll with the option to lower the detect timer from 10 seconds and I will fully support it. I will not support removing it. As I have said repeatedly I am in favor of people with the detect hidden skill being able to detect stealthers and hidden players.
     
  22. Symma

    Symma Certifiable
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    Whats the point to having a poll and a discussion, when you really don't want to take anyone else's comments on board?
     
  23. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Clearing up lies, exaggerations and manipulating is not taking anyone else's comments on board?

    Is lying, exaggerating and manipulating what you consider contributing to a discussion?
     
  24. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    The timers are not the same. You need a better timer or maybe re-learn to count. It's okay... You only need one hand for this. I'll leave out the slam that could go along nicely with that comment. I wouldn't want to push you over the edge, with you being so dangerously close and all!
     
  25. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Why doesn't no timer seem fair when there is no timer between hiding and stealth?
     
  26. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Nope. Maybe you need to spend more time learning game mechanics. You probably wouldn't be so terrible at using them if you did.
     
  27. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    I know those game mechanics quite well. You, on the other hand either run like a scared rabbit or die when I'm on my detector because I am sooooo terrible at using those skills! Gotcha! :lol:
     
  28. Roland'

    Roland' Lore Keeper
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    lol best template ever !

    taming
    lore
    hide
    stealth
    ninja
    track
    detect.
     
  29. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    LOL. You sure know how to lie. That's about it.
     
  30. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    Just tested it about 5 times. The timers for detect and hiding are the same. On my stop watch I got 10.23 seconds for detect and 10.42 seconds for hiding. Obviously just depends on how quick I hit the stop button.


    So they're definitely the same. Although, uoguide.com says the detect timer is 5 seconds. However, it is without a doubt 10 seconds.
     
  31. nightstalker22

    nightstalker22 Lore Master
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    I already answered that above.

    You are not frozen in place for ten seconds after you use the detect hidden skill, therefore, we should not be frozen in place for ten seconds after using the hiding skill.

    But if fairs fair, I expect you would approve of a increased chance to detect hidden if you stand still for no less than ten seconds after using the skill. :thumbup1:
     
  32. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    *From other post Bite Me*

    FYI, Drax is about 100% Right here with the Fact that the only templates that effectively counter Stealthers are Stealthers With Detect/Track.

    Simply because.. 100/100 Tracking/Detect offers NOTHING other than an Anti Stealth Mechanism. Therefore you need An amazing Defense for Low Skill investment.. 100/75 Hide Stealth works perfectly for defense and surprise detects, Now you need a Good Offense for Low Skill investment, and you already have Stealth/Hide/Track, so 120 Ninja is easy to pick up, Giving you 60 Damage Deathstrikes, No Fail Hide/Stealth, Track/Detect, Now you have basically 1-3 Skills worth of Points Left, Which generally go to Weaponskill / Tactics or Poisoning, because they do not require as much investment as a caster.

    Stealth is overpowered, for the invested skill 100 75 (175) They offer more than almost another other Skills at 120 120 (240) while at the same time, fitting perfectly into Ninja to Offer an a Template with almost unstoppable Defense (Stealth) and An Amazing 40 Damage Offense with Various other support abilities for.. 390 Skill.
     
  33. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Oh well Ru and I must be running leet hax then, unless you are just stupid. Hmmm.. I'll go with the latter.
     
  34. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    Allow me to make a video for you.


    I like how you're calling names now. Gotta get this thread locked as well huh?
     
  35. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
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    Her lying isn't working as well as she was hoping it would. :lol:
     
  36. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    I used fraps and the files were very large. I'm uploading to youtube right now. Be a few minutes, but I'll post the results in a minute or 5.
     
  37. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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  38. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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    Maybe you missed that part of my post? How does your foot taste? Also, have you even tried it lately? lol, cause I just recorded two videos of it taking 10 seconds each. lol.


    They're currently processing through Youtube. I've never uploaded a video before so I don't know how long it takes. They will be posted when they become available.
     
  39. RedDaTeef

    RedDaTeef Guest

    This
     
  40. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    When i visited Storm on his kids birthday this year i took my Laptop, and hadn't set up any UO Stuff on it.

    Long Story short, i was there for 10 Days, Pvped Everyday, Every Hour, with No UOAssist/Map/Any Program, Just the old manual Client with UO macros.

    Did i do as well as with Assist? No..
    Did i do so badly i can use it as an Excuse? No..

    Btw this was on Prodo on a Myst Mage Template.
     
  41. N49ATV

    N49ATV Slightly Crazed
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    I think the timer should be 10s (same as hide), however if you reveal someone, they should not be able to hide for 10s after. Giving a message saying something like "They can still see you", and smoke bomb available after 5s with a success rate based on distance from detector
     
  42. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
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  43. N49ATV

    N49ATV Slightly Crazed
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    UO guide is not a good reference at all. Its a wiki site, anyone can edit things. Perhaps on prodo the timer is 5s or 6s, but here on seige its definitly 10, feel free to go test it. You dont even need the skill to test it. Just alt+s, then actions menu, then click the blue gem next to detect hidden, target anything, and keep hitting the blue gem while counting one-onethousands in your head. Even with out a super accurate stop watch, you can clearly see its 10s, which is fine. If they put a delay on hide/stealth after detect.

    Now they must put a delay on both, since if you cant hide right away, you can still invis, and stealth off.

    Put a 10s delay on rehiding, and 5s delay on a smoke bomb.

    Passive detect directly proportional to the skills you have. IE, if you put 100 points into stealth, and detector has 100 points, you have a 50/50 chance to walk past them at1 tile, 60% @ 2 tiles, 75% at 3 tiles, and 100% at 4 tiles.

    If you have 120 stealth, you can not be passively detected. It must be active. With said timers from above.

    If you have over 100 stealth, and detector has 0 skill, you wont be passive detected. This forces you to spend atleast 100 points on stealth, to get true benefit. I think this is fair, since it would take 100 points to counter you. After that, its to the stealthers advantage to have the extra 20 points for security.


    *edit*

    As far as using magery, now you have invested 300-320 points into a counter. Though most have mage, not all do. So thats not a fair balance

    As far as throwing explode pots etc, thats also not an option, as it can get you guard wacked, or flag to others, or cause monsters to attack you (if you have ignor on)

    As far as not using UOA, thats a choice. 95% of the world uses it, its not a hack, if you elect not to invest $10 on the game, then its a choice, and to call handicap on it, is "trammy"....I think thats the word being thrown around. And if you dont use it, and elect to run 2d instead of the newer client, again thats a choice. As I know a few who play on laptops with intergrated graphics. Hell my desktop is faster then my laptop, and I bought my desktop in 2001, and it still does UO quiet fine. And the demands for the new client are not that much higher. Im sure my 10 year old desktop could handle it with no issues.
     
  44. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    So long as its scaled against hiding, so that JOAT wont be able to spam reveal me, I see no issue with this idea really.
     
  45. N49ATV

    N49ATV Slightly Crazed
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    I agree Joat shouldnt passive reveal you
     
  46. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Uhm LOL? Maybe I'm just blind, but from what I saw on the Detect Hidden video, you used the skill at :07 and got the message "Where would you like to search" again at :01. Sure seems like a 6 second timer to me!

    Nice fail?
     
  47. Vaelix

    Vaelix Guest

    You are an unbelievable failure..

    Please stop making yourself look even worse.

    The Detect Hidden was activated at 10.998 Mil Seconds.
     
  48. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Go hide under a rock. The timer doesn't start when the crosshair comes up, it starts when he targets the area he wants to search and it disappears. That was the biggest fail I have ever seen. lmao
     
  49. Kael

    Kael Certifiable
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    Seriously....and people wonder why no one wants to even log into Siege or transfer here.

    With all this pancakes and crying we are definately our own worst enemy :sad3:
     
  50. N49ATV

    N49ATV Slightly Crazed
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    Go and try it, it takes me 10s inside my house. from target time, and hitting the skill button as fast as I can. Still ~10s

    And for your info, its not from target time, its from skill use time.
     
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