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REPO MAN!!!

Discussion in 'EA Land/The Sims Online Stratics Forums' started by Guest, Apr 3, 2008.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Run! Hide!!! They're coming to get your stolen stuff. Parizad just sent an in-game message that they are coming to take back stolen CC. How would you know if you have it or not???
     
  2. Monkeybear

    Monkeybear Guest

    whats stolen cc o.o
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    whats stolen cc o.o

    [/ QUOTE ]


    thats for people who stolen other people custom content like "copy righted"
     
  4. Monkeybear

    Monkeybear Guest

    Like if someone uploaded items from someones site?
     
  5. TrustMeInc

    TrustMeInc Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Run! Hide!!! They're coming to get your stolen stuff. Parizad just sent an in-game message that they are coming to take back stolen CC. How would you know if you have it or not???

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Too funny that is why I do my own CC. They really should POST the name of these Stores. This way we know where not to shop.
    Demand refund give me a break!
     
  6. They should be forced to give us a refund.
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Stolen content = uploading custom content that you did not design and do not have permission from the designer to upload.
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Run! Hide!!! They're coming to get your stolen stuff. Parizad just sent an in-game message that they are coming to take back stolen CC. How would you know if you have it or not???

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Too funny that is why I do my own CC. They really should POST the name of these Stores. This way we know where not to shop.
    Demand refund give me a break!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You guys are great at gossiping. I'm sure by the time I"m done banning those objects, the store names and uploader names will be common knowledge. [​IMG]
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Stolen content = uploading custom content that you did not design and do not have permission from the designer to upload.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    thanks for clearing this up Parizad
     
  10. pfmonaco

    pfmonaco Guest

    I see trouble. First of all, the proper way of handling this is for EA to credit the buyer of the forged object and bill back the stores who sold them. EA is the agent here, the stores are operating under their rules.

    As for illegal content, the way I see it objects designs stolen from other players are the least of the problem.

    Look at all the photo-real CC of statues, dolls, flowers etc. Chances are that photos of actual object stolen. You can't take a picutre of a statuette you purchased at your local store and turn it into CC.. well at least not legally.

    I think it's EA's responsibility to helpt the freuded customer get their refund, just as a real credit card company will assist in a charge-back when a customer has been wronged.

    My 2-cents... discuss...
     
  11. TrustMeInc

    TrustMeInc Guest

    There is a simple solution just make your own in game CC designer. These will be the only thing you can upload. Otherwise they just gonna keep getting this problem.

    PS: This game is all about gossip lol.
    PSS: I think it's the TSO CC guys but again the would be more gossip lol.
     
  12. Im just wondering how they will know whats stolen and whats not? unless someone reported them.
     
  13. <blockquote><hr>

    Stolen content = uploading custom content that you did not design and do not have permission from the designer to upload.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I thought that is what the 'approvals' were all about.. How do these cc get approved in the first place,then you guys turn around and take them away? Shouldn't it start at the approval stage, rather than after money has changed hands?
     
  14. TrustMeInc

    TrustMeInc Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Im just wondering how they will know whats stolen and whats not? unless someone reported them.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I am sure the person who designed it plays this game. He saw it and sent some nasty e-mails.
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Gossip is SIN! [​IMG]
     
  16. TrustMeInc

    TrustMeInc Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Stolen content = uploading custom content that you did not design and do not have permission from the designer to upload.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I thought that is what the 'approvals' were all about.. How do these cc get approved in the first place,then you guys turn around and take them away? Shouldn't it start at the approval stage, rather than after money has changed hands?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    They approve it on the basis that you say you designed it and it can be taken away at anytime if proven you haven't designed.
     
  17. coyoteee

    coyoteee Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Gossip is SIN! [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Gossip is SIM! [​IMG]
    er... AVATAR!
     
  18. <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Im just wondering how they will know whats stolen and whats not? unless someone reported them.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I am sure the person who designed it plays this game. He saw it and sent some nasty e-mails.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    And if this is the case, there will still be tons of stolen CC, uploaded from inactive sims sites, and the creators not playing TSO.
     
  19. TrustMeInc

    TrustMeInc Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Gossip is SIN! [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You must be playing another game then all this game is drama and gossip. So seeing that you play you are a sinner lol.
     
  20. TrustMeInc

    TrustMeInc Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Im just wondering how they will know whats stolen and whats not? unless someone reported them.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I am sure the person who designed it plays this game. He saw it and sent some nasty e-mails.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    And if this is the case, there will still be tons of stolen CC, uploaded from inactive sims sites, and the creators not playing TSO.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You can debate this till your blue in the face the bottom line is you download something and the guy who made it see's it all he has to do is prove he designed it. A lot of website say you can post there stuff on sims online you just have to give them credit.
     
  21. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Stolen content = uploading custom content that you did not design and do not have permission from the designer to upload.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I thought that is what the 'approvals' were all about.. How do these cc get approved in the first place,then you guys turn around and take them away? Shouldn't it start at the approval stage, rather than after money has changed hands?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It's got to be a combination of both. Pari is only one person, and she's human so mistakes are going to happen. Those who try to upload stolen content know damn well they are doing it most of the time, so they are *trying* to get one in on the system. They are the ones that should be to blame, not EA for cracking down on them. It's a classic case of caveat emptur....before anybody buys cc, especially high priced cc, they should make double, triple, quadruple sure that the person they are buying from is an authorized dealer of that custom content and/or that the original uploader isn't uploading something that comes from TSR or some place that doesn't give advanced permission to do so. I know if I was about to invest thousands of game currency into it as challenging as it is to make in game I surely would not do it without sufficient research ahead of time, just like I wouldn't buy a car without making sure the person selling it had the title and it wasn't stolen, or without test driving it to make sure it wasn't a lemon. Consumers have to take some responsibility for themselves at some point in time.
     
  22. TrustMeInc

    TrustMeInc Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Stolen content = uploading custom content that you did not design and do not have permission from the designer to upload.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I thought that is what the 'approvals' were all about.. How do these cc get approved in the first place,then you guys turn around and take them away? Shouldn't it start at the approval stage, rather than after money has changed hands?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    It's got to be a combination of both. Pari is only one person, and she's human so mistakes are going to happen. Those who try to upload stolen content know damn well they are doing it most of the time, so they are *trying* to get one in on the system. They are the ones that should be to blame, not EA for cracking down on them. It's a classic case of caveat emptur....before anybody buys cc, especially high priced cc, they should make double, triple, quadruple sure that the person they are buying from is an authorized dealer of that custom content and/or that the original uploader isn't uploading something that comes from TSR or some place that doesn't give advanced permission to do so. I know if I was about to invest thousands of game currency into it as challenging as it is to make in game I surely would not do it without sufficient research ahead of time, just like I wouldn't buy a car without making sure the person selling it had the title and it wasn't stolen, or without test driving it to make sure it wasn't a lemon. Consumers have to take some responsibility for themselves at some point in time.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yep. Pari can't know every single CC item ever made for Sims Pfft...lol
     
  23. Im glad that this is happening - however there is also an in game message when you upload asking you to confirm that this content is truely yours and its not "stolen" - cant remember the exact wording - (maybe someone can post a screenie here of it) but I think that if people do not have integrity in this, then there is going to be a backlash, and unfortunately, those who have bought this CC that is stolen will be on the loosing end. Its a shame, so we have those who lack integrity to thank for this.

    *sighs* pity we cant have name and shame!
     
  24. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Im glad that this is happening - however there is also an in game message when you upload asking you to confirm that this content is truely yours and its not "stolen" - cant remember the exact wording - (maybe someone can post a screenie here of it) but I think that if people do not have integrity in this, then there is going to be a backlash, and unfortunately, those who have bought this CC that is stolen will be on the loosing end. Its a shame, so we have those who lack integrity to thank for this.

    *sighs* pity we cant have name and shame!

    [/ QUOTE ]

    That's exactly what I mean...before you upload anything, you have to confirm that the work is yours to upload, so when people click "Yes" they are at that point guilty of deception. If its a 'gray' area, always err on the side of caution and if in doubt don't upload it until you are no longer in doubt, otherwise you could be guilty of theft without ever having that be your intention. The real big ones doing it KNOW they are stealing, have known they are stealing and have bragged about getting away with it, so yes more than I am sorry for those who are getting caught in the crossfire, I am glad that the deliberate thieves are getting popped for it, and I hope not only is that stuff deleted but I hope that there has been or will be actions against those accounts too if it can be proven that those players KNEW they were doing something wrong when they did it.
     
  25. HoTDeViL

    HoTDeViL Guest

    this is really getting out of hands.
    I just got an ingame message from a girl on my sons sim.
    she told him:
    ok i bought a cc item there for 300 bucks its not coming up its not approved so i get refund? well guess your house will be reported if its not already.

    I was asking what she bought and she said a gnome with a welcome sign.
    I told her we never made this gnomes and we dont sell them.

    i tried to figure out whos the uploader and she told me the name. she also said this person sent her. because my store was selling them. and i am on the list.
    (LIST??????)

    I never sold this gnome, which was still in her own store, i saw it there approved she showed me after i went there to look. then i got kicked.
     
  26. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Having looked at a lot of the CC in the game I feel that a lot of people don't seem to realize what is copying or not.
    So I will add this in here, anything, art work, meshes, pictures anything you did not create yourself or have permission to use is not only against EA rules, but also against the law.
    There is a huge amount of CC in this game that I would have to say has been obtained from elsewhere. Some websites do offer the sale of meshes with permissions for it to be used in games. Most however do also say that those meshes cannot be obtainable through that game.
    You are getting into the possibility of real legal issues if you do not create the whole CC yourself. And EA themselves could also be brought into it as well having published the CC.
    My guess is, if all CC that has been uploaded that is not completely 100% legal was taken away, there would be very little left.
     
  27. wariotso

    wariotso Guest

    This is funny to me. Action will be taken against people who are selling stuff that others reported as stolen? What of those who don't know their work has been stolen? What of the person who created the image of John Lennon for example that is being sold in game? So people sat there and deleted the background from the original image and manipulated it in a photo program? How is the proof being had to determine who created what and what gets removed?
     
  28. Guest

    Guest Guest

    WOOT For The RepoMan! Im Glad To See Somethings Finally Being Done About It. I Work My Butt Off To Make CC And Others Take 2 Seconds To Save, Upload And Sell. RepoMan Is Mah Best Friend,LOL ; )~
     
  29. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Yeah i knew my repo men were just on strike, all 38 of em that i had in BV!!!!! [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  30. Guest

    Guest Guest

    LMAO. They Probably Had Enough To Go On A Strike After Hitting BV.
     
  31. wariotso

    wariotso Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    WOOT For The RepoMan! Im Glad To See Somethings Finally Being Done About It. I Work My Butt Off To Make CC And Others Take 2 Seconds To Save, Upload And Sell. RepoMan Is Mah Best Friend,LOL ; )~

    [/ QUOTE ]

    you have cc of tigger, tweety, taz to name a few in your store. regardless if you work your butt off or not to make it, do you not think it's stolen content as well? do you have permission to use those images?
     
  32. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    This is funny to me. Action will be taken against people who are selling stuff that others reported as stolen? What of those who don't know their work has been stolen? What of the person who created the image of John Lennon for example that is being sold in game? So people sat there and deleted the background from the original image and manipulated it in a photo program? How is the proof being had to determine who created what and what gets removed?

    [/ QUOTE ] I dont understnd this. If we bought something that someone says they created why are we the ones to suffer. We went to a store bought something paid good money for and now we are gonna loose it if its stolen? Thats not fair. When the money bug was discovered they returned all items that were bought with the money .. They need to return the money that was used to buy the stolen cc to the unsuspecting purchasers. At least that is my opinion.
     
  33. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    WOOT For The RepoMan! Im Glad To See Somethings Finally Being Done About It. I Work My Butt Off To Make CC And Others Take 2 Seconds To Save, Upload And Sell. RepoMan Is Mah Best Friend,LOL ; )~

    [/ QUOTE ]

    you have cc of tigger, tweety, taz to name a few in your store. regardless if you work your butt off or not to make it, do you not think it's stolen content as well? do you have permission to use those images?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well there is another example of where the CC is skating on thin ice. Even an image you create or draw yourself of known charactors such as you just mentioned are subject to copyright.
     
  34. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hmmm Bitter. Okay 1st Off, 2 Of Those 3 Arnt Mine. And There Is No Copyright On The Images And Are Free To Use. Others That Are Going To Sim Download Sites, 99% Of Them Have Terms About Using There Content And Not Allowed To Use Em To Call It Their Own. I Can Bet Anything Ill Email Anyone That Took A Picture And I Ask Em If I Can Use It And Edit It For My Own Use They Could Careless. If They Posted The Pic Without Some Kinda Warning About Using It Then I Doubt They Care Its Being Used. You Go To That Site And People Take Another Pic And Edit It And Then RePost It. ITS A STUPID PICTURE! Ive Taken Pics Myself And Using Them To Make CC. My Guess Is That You Yerself Used The Sims Download Sites And Is Mad RepoMans Gonna Take Yer Stolen Stuff So You Wanna Find A Reason To Make Everyone Look Bad.

    BTW Thank You For Visiting My Store [​IMG]
     
  35. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    you have cc of tigger, tweety, taz to name a few in your store. regardless if you work your butt off or not to make it, do you not think it's stolen content as well? do you have permission to use those images?


    [/ QUOTE ]
    That's a little on the fence BUT i can see the point in it. Most of our cc signs (images) are not our own, like uploading waterfall pics,foliage ect for our theatre backdrops. I know i don't specifically have their permission. Hmm maybe i should delete them all. It would be impossible if not near to impossible to get owners permission. For example my simpsons cc sign, nope don't have their permission to redistribute either. This is not a black and white issue. just my 2 currencies worth... [​IMG] edited to fix typos [​IMG]
     
  36. MaxCTSO

    MaxCTSO Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2004
    Messages:
    554
    Likes Received:
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    Goodbye half the cc in EA-Land :p
     
  37. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Goodbye half the cc in EA-Land :p

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Half, I would say most.
     
  38. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Ive Seen Alot Of The Stuff On The Sim Download Sites, 90% Of Em Were Created By An Image, Ive Found The Images They Used To Make Em. And They Charge RL Money For Most Of There Stuff. So I Dont Beleive Sculpting From A Photo Is Concidered Theft. So Keep Yer Pics I Say. [​IMG]
     
  39. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I only by Authentic CC in-game.
     
  40. wariotso

    wariotso Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Hmmm Bitter. Okay 1st Off, 2 Of Those 3 Arnt Mine. And There Is No Copyright On The Images And Are Free To Use. Others That Are Going To Sim Download Sites, 99% Of Them Have Terms About Using There Content And Not Allowed To Use Em To Call It Their Own. I Can Bet Anything Ill Email Anyone That Took A Picture And I Ask Em If I Can Use It And Edit It For My Own Use They Could Careless. If They Posted The Pic Without Some Kinda Warning About Using It Then I Doubt They Care Its Being Used. You Go To That Site And People Take Another Pic And Edit It And Then RePost It. ITS A STUPID PICTURE! Ive Taken Pics Myself And Using Them To Make CC. My Guess Is That You Yerself Used The Sims Download Sites And Is Mad RepoMans Gonna Take Yer Stolen Stuff So You Wanna Find A Reason To Make Everyone Look Bad.

    BTW Thank You For Visiting My Store [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm not bitter at all. I'm only trying to point out that you &amp; others are being hypocritical. you're using images that you don't have permission to use. i can almost guarantee that any images of tigger, tweety or taz are copywritten. just because someone took a rl pic of something tigger, tweety or taz they own doesn't mean that the original image isn't copy written. you can say you do have copy right permission, but i have serious doubt, although i won't say i know with 100% certainty. regardless if you spend 2 weeks using this image to manipulate it or it takes you 2 seconds, it's the same....using content that is stolen.
     
  41. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Alot Of Sim Download Sites Used Images That Werent Their Own Cause Ive Seen It. If Thats The Case. 90% Of Sim Download Sites Should Be Shut Down. But They Been There For Years. So I Dont See A Problem Using A Picture Thats Available To Everyone To Edit And Do What They Want With It. Thats My Opinion.
     
  42. wariotso

    wariotso Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    WOOT For The RepoMan! Im Glad To See Somethings Finally Being Done About It. I Work My Butt Off To Make CC And Others Take 2 Seconds To Save, Upload And Sell. RepoMan Is Mah Best Friend,LOL ; )~

    [/ QUOTE ]

    you have cc of tigger, tweety, taz to name a few in your store. regardless if you work your butt off or not to make it, do you not think it's stolen content as well? do you have permission to use those images?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well there is another example of where the CC is skating on thin ice. Even an image you create or draw yourself of known charactors such as you just mentioned are subject to copyright.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Exactly, If I draw a picture of bart simpson, I can't call it my own. It would be subject to copyright laws, same as taking a picture of something I owned that was bart simpson, though i highly doubt most people are actually taking their own pictures of bart simpson stuff, more likely they're finding bart simpson pics online to manipulate.
     
  43. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Is this another example of:

    A) a failure by EA to anticipate the obvious

    B) a knee-jerk response that is not part of a long-term solution

    C) a poorly defined policy that makes promises it can't keep

    D) boldly stumbling where others have stumbled before

    E) all of the above?

    http://www.wired.com/gaming/virtualworlds/commentary/circuitcourt/2006/11/72143

    http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Help:Trademarks_and_Copyright_in_Second_Life

    It's easy to find CC that obviously violates well-known copyrights and trademarks, but was approved anyhow. Resolving these kinds of disputes could end up being a fulltime job.
     
  44. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I only by Authentic CC in-game.

    [/ QUOTE ] How can you tell if they say its there's and it says it is theres? What is the correct way to determine if its stolen? I look at it and if I like it I buy it
     
  45. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I'm sure giving proper credit and following the makers instructions matters. I uploaded a couple of items from parsimonious, the website says its ok to upload for personal use and to giver her credit in the description. It is not ok to sell her items. She said she has watchers in game that will notify her if her rules are not followed. So I put her wesite in the description and made a set for my own house. I have not and will not be selling any of her items.

    That said anyone who uploads items and does not follow the makers instructions is in for trouble in this area.

    If this covers other copyright items such as Disney, then alot more could potentially vanish and the uploader should be prepared to show that they have permission from the owner to use it.

    There has been an ongoing thread in the CC forum about CC theft. It seems some people dont care about what they steal. Bad form if you ask me and potentially leaving themselves open to legal issues.

    If someone steals your work report it.
     
  46. wariotso

    wariotso Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Alot Of Sim Download Sites Used Images That Werent Their Own Cause Ive Seen It. If Thats The Case. 90% Of Sim Download Sites Should Be Shut Down. But They Been There For Years. So I Dont See A Problem Using A Picture Thats Available To Everyone To Edit And Do What They Want With It. Thats My Opinion.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    So what exactly do you see as the problem? pics are ok, but items not? to me it seems that the people who argue over this here are the ones who spend alot of time editing and manipulating these images or items, so they feel that the time they've invested entitles them to something more than ones who take 2 seconds to just steal and upload. it is all the same thing whether you want to see it that way or not.
     
  47. hutson797

    hutson797 Guest

    I agree how are we going to get refunds, I talked to one of the stores where I bought stuff and answer was not our stuff [​IMG]
     
  48. wariotso

    wariotso Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Is this another example of:

    A) a failure by EA to anticipate the obvious

    B) a knee-jerk response that is not part of a long-term solution

    C) a poorly defined policy that makes promises it can't keep

    D) boldly stumbling where others have stumbled before

    E) all of the above?

    http://www.wired.com/gaming/virtualworlds/commentary/circuitcourt/2006/11/72143

    http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Help:Trademarks_and_Copyright_in_Second_Life

    It's easy to find CC that obviously violates well-known copyrights and trademarks, but was approved anyhow. Resolving these kinds of disputes could end up being a fulltime job.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    E
     
  49. wariotso

    wariotso Guest

    If I were EA, I would have my user agreement hold me not liable and let the little guys fight it out, but EA always seems to micro manage everything imo
     
  50. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Hmmm Bitter. Okay 1st Off, 2 Of Those 3 Arnt Mine. And There Is No Copyright On The Images And Are Free To Use. Others That Are Going To Sim Download Sites, 99% Of Them Have Terms About Using There Content And Not Allowed To Use Em To Call It Their Own. I Can Bet Anything Ill Email Anyone That Took A Picture And I Ask Em If I Can Use It And Edit It For My Own Use They Could Careless. If They Posted The Pic Without Some Kinda Warning About Using It Then I Doubt They Care Its Being Used. You Go To That Site And People Take Another Pic And Edit It And Then RePost It. ITS A STUPID PICTURE! Ive Taken Pics Myself And Using Them To Make CC. My Guess Is That You Yerself Used The Sims Download Sites And Is Mad RepoMans Gonna Take Yer Stolen Stuff So You Wanna Find A Reason To Make Everyone Look Bad.

    BTW Thank You For Visiting My Store [​IMG]

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I'm not bitter at all. I'm only trying to point out that you &amp; others are being hypocritical. you're using images that you don't have permission to use. i can almost guarantee that any images of tigger, tweety or taz are copywritten. just because someone took a rl pic of something tigger, tweety or taz they own doesn't mean that the original image isn't copy written. you can say you do have copy right permission, but i have serious doubt, although i won't say i know with 100% certainty. regardless if you spend 2 weeks using this image to manipulate it or it takes you 2 seconds, it's the same....using content that is stolen.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    If I was to draw my own drawing of any recognized character, such as Tweety pie or Bugs bunny. If I made that drawing into a poster and started selling that poster on the net, I would be infringing on copyright laws.
    EA themselves are taking a real chance here. For years now law companies have been going nuts on suing over copyrights. Many of them have departments setup just to look for infringements, so they can approach the company that owns the copyright and advise them of how much they can get for them.
    For instants, one of these law firms sees Tweety in this game, they approach Warner Brothers and say we can get X amount of dollars from EA for this infringement. All Warner Brothers has to do is say go for it and it's on.
    Seeing in newspapers what companies are suing people and other companies for in the way of copyrights, I could never understand why the devs were allowing it to happen.