1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Request for Clarification on Ask the Devs Answer About Narvey and New Artifacts

Discussion in 'UHall' started by GalenKnighthawke, Mar 9, 2010.

  1. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    This:

    http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=182035

    Is the post I'm requesting clarification on.

    1. What is the "this" that will be adjusted in the next Publish? The new artifacts' spawn rate? The Narvey timer? Both? (Regarding the Narvey timer, the original poster has it wrong, the last time I checked her timer was 20 minutes, not 15.)

    2. The question as phrased is relatively rude. I refer specifically to this quote:

    which seems really unnecessarily impolite. It's not the worst on these boards by any stretch, but it's not polite either. Why answer impolite queries and ignore so many polite ones?

    If you prefer impolite queries, perhaps mistaking rudeness for "honesty" as far too many do in our culture these days, I'm sure many of us who are comparatively polite could get ruder.

    -Galen's player
     
  2. Merion

    Merion Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,006
    Likes Received:
    9
    If you haven't noticed: they only answer questions to which the answer is information they are about to share anyway.
     
  3. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    Indeed I have noticed that.

    -Galen's player
     
  4. No I don't. It is 15 minutes from when the previous one died.

    I feel like being rude when I see the same Archer get 5 and make 75m+ on each of them because he doesn't need them, when I've been down there since it started and had none when I know I'm outdamaging him and DO need one, just one, to use. In fact the last 12 I've seen drop on Atlantic have gone to Archers. So you may consider it unnecessarily rude but I do not. And if it makes you feel any better there are many more questions of mine they haven't answered which have varying degrees of politeness.
     
  5. Xalan Dementia

    Xalan Dementia Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2008
    Messages:
    1,355
    Likes Received:
    81
    if they remove/shorten the respawn timer then they need to keep or even lessen the frequency of drops. if they boost the frequency of the drops then they should lengthen the respawn time.
    Just because weaker arties/rares drop more often doesnt mean these new high end items need to as well. They give a better faster drop rate and boom shards are flooded with them, everyone has the new items they want and are bored with hunting them.
    No matter how you phrase it, the calls for better droprate/spawning of new items still comes out as "I want my highend items fast and easy!"
     
  6. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran 4H

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    7,527
    Likes Received:
    1,914
    They also have a strong tendency to answer questions that were submitted within just the previous day or two. Apparently it's too much trouble to go through the list and do something with questions that were submitted back in December and January. And since none of us who actually submitted stuff have any way to find our submissions again, I guess they'll just stay in limbo forever until we go away or decide to submit them once again, needlessly making the list longer than it has to be because someone clearly isn't doing their job.

    How hard could it possibly be to have someone like Zig just take some of those old questions and tell us they've been added to someone's pile? At least it would give us some clue as to what's already been asked and isn't likely to ever be answered so we can just go away and quit wasting our time pestering people who have no intention of providing meaningful answers to customer questions.
     
  7. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    2
    Because apparently the DEVs are the archers now? People make mistakes, they tried to make the artifacts worth something and not quickly saturate the market is my guess. No need to be rude, they're not stealing your artifact, they just made and attempt to make them worth something and made a mistake. They even bothered to answer your question and state that they're going to try to balance the problem, yet you still think you're in the right for being rude? Meh.
     
  8. legendsguy

    legendsguy Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    695
    Likes Received:
    138
    qft.
     
  9. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    I'll take your word for it for now I guess; you're God after all. That and I doubt I'll be back anytime soon.

    *chuckles*

    Plenty of us haven't gotten one you know.

    If I'd said something like this, I'd be called a "Communist."

    I'm curious as to how you "know" you're doing more damage...But not curious enough to out-and-out ask.

    -Galen's player
     
  10. Deb

    Deb Guest

    I just hope they remove some of the webs...please
     
  11. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    Eh....Personally I think it's arguable that the drop rate is slow enough at the moment that decreasing the spawn time wouldn't do all that much. Just make it a little more interesting to camp out there.
    Yep.

    I can imagine the reaction if I'd made similar statements, calling for a higher spawn rate of something or other. I can't recall if I ever have. Maybe but I don't recall it.

    -Galen's player
     
  12. I didn't ask a question so starting with 'because...?' makes no sense. But yes actually they mostly do play Archers, and Tamers. Remember Cal saying how they have been playing Baja, they aren't hard to spot, they show up at the same time each week. Though this isn't anything to do with my post, I was just pointing out that Archers are consistently getting them on Atlantic, and I am consistently not. What the devs do is up to them and I don't hold that or anything else against them. (With the exception of the Navrey timer and 2-4% drop rate.)

    Its not a case of being right because them answering it AFTER doesn't negate the reason it was asked BEFORE. I don't deny that the post is rude, it is intentional and I wrote it that way to illustrate my frustration of the situation.

    How much continual hunting for an item should be considered reasonable enough for you to finally say this drop rate is bs. Whatever it is I've reached that point. I didn't say they are stealing my artifact, I haven't been in there the most or least compared to other people, there are people who have done 100's more than me with still no drop and there are people who have done 1 or 2 and got something.

    I don't need a clarification of their answer, so don't make this thread out to be mine, I am happy that they have listened to feedback that has been submitted, by more than just me. I look forward to seeing what they will do and will gladly stfu about it. Even if I still don't get one.

    On the subject of shutting tfu about things, if you find my posts rude or offensive then stop reading them, or put me on ignore, you will get no sympathy from me for your continual pancakes about what I write when it is your choice to read it. *Not addressed to anyone in particular.*
     
  13. Well you don't really need to. You could just go there see when one dies and watch the clock for when the next one spawns.

    I know.

    Communists are big into Navrey?

    Its very easy you simply look at what they are using. This isn't an elitist statement about whats equipped its a matter of fact, they are using a bow that when all other skills, mods etc are cancelled out as being max on both me and them (even though this specific person doesn't have max everything) is slower and less damage. On top of that, I have used multiple characters, some that are not only doing more weapon damage but have additional damage from pets, summons etc. So its actually very easy to know. It can all be worked out knowing the max swing that can be achieved and damage.
     
  14. popps

    popps Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    13,445
    Likes Received:
    461


    The real problem, as I see it, is the code that assigns higher chances of a drop to those who did the most damage.

    At spawns that have high traffic, like Navrey is these days, and usually are all new drops spawns, this can spell with a LOT of players ending up with extreme long waiting times for a drop.

    I'd rather prefer a million times to let a bugged RNG engine decide who gets it, than the highest damage code.....................

    At least, the bugged RNG would not be able to always give it to the same few players as it is now.
     
  15. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    what? people have been complaining endlessly that it is completely random and has nothing to do with who does the most damage. Where are your comments even comming from?

    Yea MOST of the systems in game work on top damage, on the other hand all do and always will because that's how loot works if you don't do enough damage you get no chance to loot, if you get no chance to loot you get no chance at a drop. so you would rather the person who shows up at the end does 26 damage get a drop rather than one person who was the only person there the whole time and obviously did the most damage? The way it works right now is fairly random, if you can loot it you randomly get a drop, nothing to do with if you were the top damager or not.
     
  16. GreywolfUK

    GreywolfUK Sage
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2003
    Messages:
    502
    Likes Received:
    8
    You are correct on the timer, but I think your off the mark, on the drops, I have used both archer and tamer at Navrey, and not gotten anything. I have always believed these kinds of mobs, should be handled with the Doom drop system, it is a fairer system than the one being used now.
     
  17. While I suppose that may be true for PVP, that is really no longer a factor for ABC archers. 1.) Honor 2.) Slayer 3.) Max DI (at this point 100%) or conscecrate weapon which fills in the blank. Even with the worst bow (with lets say 30% ssi), you can still shell out consist highend damage at a quicker rate than most other players (a mage may be the exemption). But note the key element in this equation is getting the honor.
     
  18. No, it doesn't. Some of us have literally spent weeks down with Navrey with absolutely nothing to show for it. 6-7 hours a day, 5 days a week, for the past, what, 4 weeks? Not a single drop. And I've used every character type possible at that. We don't want things "fast and easy". Just "eventually" would be nice.
     
  19. funkymonkey

    funkymonkey Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    960
    Likes Received:
    162
    i got mine on an archer like a week ago, he is only GM in archery cus im training on it, anyway i came back to the PC saw it almost relined, so i just dumped on it within 1 min it was dead and i got the tangle.

    So dmg doesn't matter, and someone else a few days before me done the same thing, he was on his mage FS the navery 3 times and got him Tangle.

    its just RL luck.
     
  20. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2006
    Messages:
    1,045
    Likes Received:
    2
    Pointing out grammatical errors when, in truth, the use of because was put there to just point out that I was replying to you in stating that only archers get the drops and blaming the devs for your misfortune, IE, the Devs play archers comment.

    Apparently you didn't know you can make grammatical mistakes such as starting with "But" or because to emphasize a point? One of my old teachers calls it a literary license as it calls out that particular point, thus, emphasizing it.

    I don't care why you did it, I didn't say I was offended. I was just stating that just because you have misfortune, doesn't justify in being rude to someone. Apparently someone skipped that class in kindergarden.
     
  21. Merion

    Merion Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,006
    Likes Received:
    9
    It took me over a year of doing peerless before I finally got my first crimson after the release of ML.

    I think people are just spoiled whiners! The drop rate is fine! (and no, I haven't gotten anything yet)
     
  22. Mitzlplik_SP

    Mitzlplik_SP Guest

    This.

    In my LS days I`ve done hundreds of Mels and got one CC. Hundreds since I got it and no CC. I was starting to feel lucky when I get more than one taint let alone another CC.

    Just more "I want it easier and I want it now!" bullcrap.
     
  23. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Campaign Supporter Gilfane

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    4,842
    Likes Received:
    1,297
    This!

    If they both shorten the timer AND increase the drop rate then that would be, in the words of Doug Heffernan, brutal.

    And since they said they were tweaking it I hope it´s shorten the timer rather than increasing the drop rate cuz standing there looking at spider webs for 15 mins isn´t always fun...
     
  24. People hate wasting their time. Putting out hours upon hours worth of time and effort with nothing to show for it is bad business. The very low drop rate coupled with the overly long time between spawns makes Navrey bad design. You may be content with spending a year to try to obtain something, but us normal people aren't.
     
  25. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    2,716
    Likes Received:
    32
    I was thinking about this as well. Why did it seem fine for crimson cintures?

    I came to the following conclusion:

    1) You are in a co-operative group when you do the ML peerless, so any friend/guildie/party member that got a cincture was cause for collective joy. Even if you didn't get 1
    2) There was no Doom "point" system back then to compare to
     
  26. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2004
    Messages:
    1,500
    Likes Received:
    393
    I would like a lower respawn rate, but i would like to know that eventually I will be able to obtain one or more of the drops. I like the idea of a Doom style drop system, but maybe tweak it a bit so that the drops are less common than Doom drops (meaning people will still have to work the spawn for a good while in order to get a drop).
     
  27. 3. If multiple party members had the keys done then there was no wait between boss fights.

    4. If each person in a group had keys done on multiple characters, bosses could literally be chained back to back for hours.

    Big difference between peerless and Navrey.
     
  28. SchezwanBeefy

    SchezwanBeefy Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2009
    Messages:
    1,035
    Likes Received:
    0
    This.
     
  29. You are completely wrong.

    Everyone potentially has access to Honor, Slayers, Embraced Honor Bonus, DI, 150 Str etc etc... Most Archery weapons can not reach the swing cap of 1.25s, the ones that can are too weak to compare. So when everyone is hitting the same damage cap it comes entirely down to who can swing the fastest and has the most base damage, the Ornate Axe even at 1.5s even without LJ surpasses all Archery weapons. (I swing my Ornate at 1.25s, sometimes faster as Counter Attack goes off between normal swings.)

    You compare the average base damage of any bow you like with equal skills and properties, the Ornate Axe will always be in the lead over time (that time being 2nd hit and onward - and thats only because of one bow). The only exception being the inital hit from a Heavy Crossbow, after the inital hit it immediately falls behind.

    On top of that the Ornate Axe can also have another 10 DI from LJ.

    Archery is around 4th best damage in the game just among weapon skills. I don't know where it ranks compared to spells but I can do 397 damage FS/Omens in 2s on my Necro/Scribe/Mage, fireball alone out damages most Bows.

    The only bow that could potentially out damage the Ornate Axe is continuous Double Shots from a Yumi which given Archerys halfed leech effectiveness is likely unsustainable, plus a Double Axe would easily out Double Strike it.

    The Archer I'm refering to doesn't have max everything, but even if he did he would be doing less damage.
     
  30. This.
     
  31. I wasn't particularly talking about grammar. Just that it didn't read like you had understood what you were quoting.

    I disagree. Being rude is often a measure of frustration. When it isn't aimed at any one in particular there is no victim.
     
  32. popps

    popps Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    13,445
    Likes Received:
    461

    It comes from the logics that giving the items always and systematically to the players who make the most damage = having ALWAYS the same players get the best loot. Period.

    This is absurd, IMHO.

    Why ?

    Because it allows the top players to stay on top, and REMAIN on top and cuts out other players who are trying to climb the ladder.

    Why ?

    Because they are, while climbing the ladder, unable to make the same (outrageous, sometimes) amount of damage that other players do.

    This means, that non-top damagers have to play at ridicolous times or whenever hardly anyone is around to get a chance at a good item.

    Not good design at all, IMHO, because it allows division of player base and actually, increases the gap between the players who do the most damage and those catching up.

    Top damagers is a very bad system, IMHO.

    A much better one is the Doom points system.

    But I still prefer the RNG system overall. Preferably, with a fixed and working RNG.
     
  33. Peerless are a different matter altogether, I've done around 80 Paroxysmus' solo, had 2 crimsons and 1 mount, they were at odd intervals, one after 8 and the other closer to around 70. The difference is I did eventually get something. I have done many hundreds of Navrey, Slasher & Medusa.
     
  34. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    And despite my intent, here I am at Narvey again...I guess this thread put me in the Narvey mood.

    It is indeed 15 minutes from "death" rather than 20 minutes from "birth." Confirmed both from experience and from other experienced Narvey campers on GL. Why I thought the latter I can't guess. That's was what was said around the time the artifacts started spawning, and they almost always take approximately 5 minutes to kill, so it just worked out.

    I hate being wrong but I'll get by, somehow.

    Removing your tone, on the merits I think I actually agree with you that, if the drop Artifact rate is to be as low as it obviously is, Narvey's spawn rate should be slightly higher. I do not think spawning her 10 minutes from death, and keeping the Artifact spawn rate the same, would kill the market for these things. Maybe the Night Eyes prices would drop from 20m to 35m to 15m to 20m. Oooh, aaahh.

    But I again have to point out the following.
    • If I, or a similarly Trammel-based player, had made the argument you had been made, the posts about Trammel whining or "Commies" or some such would have been flying.
    • Isn't the real answer here not to ask for Narvey's artifacts to be easier to get, but to do something else to get enough money to buy a Tangle? Let me paraphrase something one of your fellow Fellies once said about power scrolls. "You don't have to camp Narvey to get your apron, Mr. Fellie." "No," replies the awestruck Fellie?" "No! You can simply buy your Tangle from someone who does!" "oooh."

    As much as I might agree that her spawn rate being turned up wouldn't hurt anything, isn't it a better answer to get a crew together, chain Stygian Dragons until you get a Draconi's Wrath, and then sell it to get all the Tangles your heart desires?

    -Galen's player
     
  35. While normally this suggestion would hold merit, Tangle is currently selling for 50-75m on Pacific, and I'm sure a like amount on a majority of the shards. While I could go out right now and buy several and think nothing of it, 50-75m is way out of reach for most of the UO population.
     
  36. I originally thought it was 20 also for the same reason.

    I only know it was from death not birth because I got to solo one late one night on a secondary shard I play, it took an hour (no slayer or weaving just dragon). Had it been from birth it would have respawned straight away.

    I think thats more a case of a chip on your shoulder than anything else. Navrey isn't in Fel, its in Tram, nothing I've said about Navrey relates to a Tram/Fel debate. Even if it was in Fel it would still be PvM.

    I don't know why you're calling me a 'Fellie'. I play both Fel and Tram rule sets. I also don't post with 'fellow Fellies'.

    Your paraphrasing misses the point. The argument of simply buying it would hold up if the objection was to not wanting to go to Tram to get it, but it isn't. Thats the argument of Trammel-based players who 'won't' go to Fel for powerscrolls. I haven't not gone to Navrey because its in Tram. I've been there plenty.

    Well that again misses the point. The drop rate of Draconi's Wrath is the same as the drop rate at Navrey, they are part of the same artifact set, they work on the same system.

    On top of which the Draconi's Wrath isn't worth a fraction of a Tangle.

    On top of which I'm not looking to make money out of it, I just need one for one of my characters, and thats actual need, for a reason, not the 'need' other people use when anything new/rehued/renamed comes out. It is needed to make my character up to 150 Int when blessed for the spell damage increase as fitting with their build and purpose. I'm sure this is trival to, by your own words, a Trammel-Based player, but to a 'Fellie' it is important. Its not like I'm not willing to go there, or put the effort in to get one, thats exactly what I have been doing to no avail.
     
  37. legendsguy

    legendsguy Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    695
    Likes Received:
    138
    cough..

    you of course do realize that navrey doesn't require -any- keys at all, right? and that gathering keys for other peerless probably takes longer than 15 minutes.

    not to mention that for navrey, a creature that gives arguably the best item in the game, she is incredibly easy. i'm just saying--you got yourself a creature that is easier than peerless, requires no keys to obtain, and gives amazing loot. but instead of being happy you still find reasons to complain.

    -gives everyone a tangle- there, you all happy? now you can go back to not camping navrey, and not having something fun to do while the rest of your guild is out collecting peerless keys.

    seriously folks. seriously. you want everything handed to you, don't you? crimson cinctures are incredibly low drop-rates and people are fine with it because it's that 'one amazing item' that keeps people going. i really don't care how often you camp navrey, or how many times you kill her. this is about retaining some of the enjoyment in the game--not just handing all the powerful equipment to everyone who's spent a couple hours down there.

    do any of you even -die- at navrey? it's such an easy creature as long as a couple others are there. -shakes head in disbelief- but yes, the 'powers that be' will clearly increase the drop-rate and the respawn time just to appease the masses who yearn for easy solutions so they can go back to sitting at the bank or having pvp shouting matches over chat.
     
  38. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2003
    Messages:
    6,405
    Likes Received:
    678
    Read it as 'Don't get your panties in a bunch - we are going to make changes'.

    Recommendation : forget it until the next pub then decide if it makes sense to pursue it. You won't die without a tangle from now until then.


    I don't really care about the drop rate increasing - what is dumb is the spawn rate. No one likes standing around for 15 min. It is boring. Make it spawn 1 min after death.

    Let people fight instead of standing around waiting for 15 min. I don't like waiting in RL and I sure as hell don't like waiting in a game.
     
  39. :dunce:
     
  40. longshanks

    longshanks Guest

    this is a simple fix.

    lower the time between spawns. 2-3 minutes max.

    change the drop rate to doom system.

    whats the difference to the difficulty of obtaining the items. the game's 12 years old. doesnt everyone have everything anyway?
     
  41. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Campaign Supporter Gilfane

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    4,842
    Likes Received:
    1,297
    If they change it to Doom system down there, that cave will be dead in a few months from now...
     
  42. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    4,556
    Likes Received:
    113
    It isn't Narvey, it's Navrey. EVen the devs spelled it wrong on one of the patches' notes.
     
  43. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    2,716
    Likes Received:
    32
    Add 1 more, I think I'd spelled it "Navery" before, heh
     
  44. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    6,641
    Likes Received:
    1,163
    Want to know something funny?

    I have never once spelled it correctly. Not once. Always said it and spelled it as "Narvey."

    In fact, I felt compelled to look for confirmation you were, right, and lo and behold you were. You knew that already, of course.

    *sighs*

    Oh well.

    -Galen's player
     
  45. A Rev

    A Rev Guest

    No, the simple fix is...

    Drop the respawn to 2-3minutes, give her area effect spells. Make her cast EQ and / or Mysticism spells. Increase her HP by 5x boost her wrestle to 160.

    Make her eat dragons.

    Basically, buff the **** outta her!!!

    Then you can decrease the timer.
     
  46. Idk if you were being serious or not, but if thats an option I would gladly see it happen, as someone else pointed out it is boring and absoloutely no challenge as it is. The only people who ever die in there are meleers who don't bother to load up on poppers first.
    The Slasher on the other hand I actually enjoy because it is engaging, it just doesn't drop anything I currently want, but if buffing the hell out of Navrey is what it takes then I'm all for it.
     
  47. Muu Bin

    Muu Bin Guest

    How about handing them out willy-nilly for easter and then everyone has one? :grouphug:
     
  48. A Rev

    A Rev Guest

    Deadly serious!!!

    The only time i ever see people die is when we drop the rocks on them :)
     
  49. Mitzlplik_SP

    Mitzlplik_SP Guest

    LOL, preach on brotha Beavis! Hit the nail on the head IMO.

    The games been dumbed down enough by peoples cries for "easier" rolleyes:
     
  50. KidJoe

    KidJoe Guest

    Not sure what all of this has to do with getting the apron. I know that I got one on the second one I killed with a large group there. I only casting evs and discoed it. More Archers get drops cause there are more there. It is just numbers.