1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Resurrection Sickness for PVP

Discussion in 'UHall' started by JC the Builder, Aug 22, 2008.

?

Should there be a penalty for death in PVP?

  1. Yes

    50 vote(s)
    56.8%
  2. No

    28 vote(s)
    31.8%
  3. I don't PVP

    10 vote(s)
    11.4%
  1. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,154
    Likes Received:
    708
    It is no secret that there is an issue with dispatched players returning to the battle field within seconds of dying. The Age of Shadows combined with the EZ-Loot corpse addition has made this all possible. To combat this issue I think there should be a type of penalty for dying at the hands of a player. A penalty of 50% skill decrease for 5 minutes or something similar.

    - Short enough so a player can rejoin the fight if their group can keep it together
    - Long enough so you aren't saying "didn't we just kill that guy?"
    - Harsh enough so players will not be able to jump right back in like nothing happened
    - Light enough so that the player is not completely useless or defenseless

    Prior to Age of Shadows you took a player out of the action by looting their corpse. Insurance, Quivers, Chivalry/Bushido (dexer healing) and Lower Reagent Cost has taken this away. There needs to be a way for the winning side to keep players from returning to fight immediately after death. Short of drastic measures such as capping Lower Reagent Cost below 100% I don't see any other solution besides a resurrection sickness penalty.

    To be clear this only affects PVP. If you die to a wild creature or monster you won't be affected. If you die to a summon or player's pet you would. You also won't be affected being killed by a guild/alliance member.
     
  2. Ressurection Sickness is one of a handful of ideas that I consider brilliant.


    Why?

    It creates a bonus for survivning. Notice I didnt say penalty for dieing.

    Its temporary.

    The sickness can get worse as you keep dying.

    For the whinners that think everything is unfair when it happens to them... There could be a cure the takes 10 minutes to go do to be back up to full strength vs. waiting for you to heal on your own.

    Very good idea.

    Oh is it simple. The best solutions are often simple.
     
  3. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    824
    Uhm, I would have to vote NO. At least on low population shards. I mean, come on. On low population shards its hard enough to find people to pvp.
     
  4. wrekognize

    wrekognize Guest

    There should be stat loss for reds in PVP. This would make it harder for raiding guilds, since they have the upper hand comeing into a raid as it is. There should be some type of advantage to blues who are doing a spawn. IF they hold off the initial raid, they should have some time to complete the spawn. As of now it's just a matter of how fast the reds can res and get back to finishing off the raid.

    ...
     
  5. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    6,032
    Likes Received:
    145
    Don't they have this already?


    Oh ya, factions.
     
  6. xStrikerx

    xStrikerx Guest

    I like the idea but think 50% is too much. Wouldnt 25% skill loss be enough to make someone an easy target coming back into a fight?

    I also dont think stat loss for only reds is good since there are many murderous blues.

    I dont do much PvP (mainly defensive) but still live and hunt in fel.
     
  7. Shanna

    Shanna Guest

    Eek no. It's bad enough it took five people to kill me. Now I have to wait to exact my revenge.
     
  8. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,154
    Likes Received:
    708
    As I already mentioned, you used to take people out of the fight by looting them. This applied to both faction and non-faction fights. Non-faction fights need to have something restored so that death isn't simply a 10 seconds time-out.
    Not at all. Virtually all players PVP with 120 in their main skills. A 25% reduction only brings them down to 90. Imagine all the stuff you can do at 90 skill with Magery, Necromancy, etc. Then there is the bonus from skill jewelry. Even the 33% penalty in factions is not harsh enough anymore. We took out an entire force of ~12 players a couple months ago yet they continued to fight like nothing happened. Your ability to attack needs to be completly taken away. With 120 skills and skill boosting items, 50% seems to be the minimum to make this work.
    Assuming you are alone, it is going to take you a couple minutes to get back up. By the time you return the sickness should be over or close to it. Assuming you are in a group, then you should have done something else such as not run into a group of 5 players or had someone help with healing.
     
  9. Shanna

    Shanna Guest

    I can understand what you're wanting. Which it's fine and dandy for Yew gate pvp, IDOC pvp, or something of that nature. But in Despise or any other spawn, I'd hate to have a teammate out for a few minutes because he can't control his pet or fizzles three times trying to cast a flamestrike.
     
  10. Zurloth

    Zurloth Guest

    That is the whole point. Your teammate died. If you killed someone on the other team he would be out for the same amount of time.
     
  11. BbqLou

    BbqLou Visitor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2008
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    0
    lol..... SO when 5 people go to raid a despise and the guild with 20 people kill the 5 you want the 20 people to have an even bigger advantage, this idea is pretty useless and stupid tbh.
     
  12. Everclear-IFC

    Everclear-IFC Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2005
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    3
    Imo if you want rez sickness go play wow, we have a similar system to it, it's called factions.
     
  13. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend GoT

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,620
    Likes Received:
    1,382
    If the idea is for the Victor to stand on the Battle Field at the end (ala 300) with his Brothers In Arms and admire they're handy work, then I say, give a penalty for death. But since I always thought PvP was how many kills Co0LPwnR has, why shouldn't it be nearly instant return to battle? Maybe do like HALO3 and others do ? heheh
     
  14. Zurloth

    Zurloth Guest

    This doesnt give a advantage to the zerg. Infact if those 5 people are better they would be able to have a better chance of winning aginst 20 (with the 5 minute timer killing one of the twenty would make a differnce where as now the 20 would be able to rez up that guy before the death would be a factor.)

    However, if the 5 people arnt that much better than the 20 there is no way 5 people can beat 20 now anyways...
     
  15. Zurloth

    Zurloth Guest

    I dont personaly like link. But this is not the worse idea he has posted about.

    At champ spawns, and basicly any fight were 2 groups of people fight each other (aka not at yew gate near guard zone and houses) This would make fights more interesting.


    However i think the real motive of link posting this is because his guild prob out numberd another group at a spawn and the other group won after more than one try or somthing(lol)
     
  16. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,154
    Likes Received:
    708
    Because it isn't fun at all to see the person you just killed 10 seconds ago back and have to kill them again? Plus all the kamikaze stunts people pull today is ridiculous. There may be only a 10% chance of success for them to do what they want, but if they can try 10 times in 5 minutes it doesn't matter how many times they die. Dying has become an acceptable part of PVP, even a strategy in some cases. It shouldn't be.
     
  17. There is, its called Siege Perilous
     
  18. D'Amavir

    D'Amavir Guest

    Siege has too many negatives attached to it to use it as the answer to many normal shard issues that people have. I know Siege players are dying to have more people there, but until it stops being such a sucky place, there aren't going to be.

    And that isn't a knock on Siege players, its a knock on how the devs set up Siege itself.
     
  19. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,175
    Likes Received:
    0
    They would definitely have to fix the beneficial acts bug first.
     
  20. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,175
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't get it. What if there is are a bunch of blues raiding a group of reds?
     
  21. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,175
    Likes Received:
    0
    There's no way I'm playing Siege, sorry.
     
  22. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,175
    Likes Received:
    0
    no one participates in factions because it is not part of the economy. it's a dead system that should be removed from the game.
     
  23. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,175
    Likes Received:
    0
    link has probably been in 100's if not 1000's of pvp fights. don't you think it's a little silly to say something like that?
     
  24. Vexxed

    Vexxed Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,581
    Likes Received:
    351
    I like the idea... I've fought several large zerg guilds and once that # advantage gets to a certain point it becomes impossible to kill them simply bc they pop back up as soon as you do manage to kill one. The idea of building a character simply so that you can OUT-RES your opponent is qutie silly... and such characters are out there......

    Hiding , Mage weapon , DP Mage with max DCI / EP and compassion or whatever virtue allows you to RES someone at full life... In a field fight tele hides, apples, chugs, invis spell, etc.. all combine to make killing this character quite difficult... and watching him driveby guildmates with a full life res that you just spent effort on killing the guy is silly...... 5 Minutes is a good number imo.. and 50% stats / kill seems about right also..
     
  25. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2008
    Messages:
    1,175
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think 5 minutes is probably too long. But considering that champs now have a lot more HP maybe it isn't...
     
  26. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,154
    Likes Received:
    708
    Aren't tamers a problem on Siege? Wouldn't it be nice if you could kill one and he can't control his pets anymore for 5 minutes? I guess it isn't a problem then.
     
  27. JoO

    JoO Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2008
    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    21

    if you are 5 and run into a meat grinder of 20 people you should die PERIOD. If however we 5 are able to pick off a few and they cant run back to the pack and be at 100% effectiveness in 10 seconds its a step in the right direction. I posted that I wanted LRC capped in pvp a while back to accomplish basically the same thing but I would settle for temp stat loss.
     
  28. BbqLou

    BbqLou Visitor

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2008
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    0
    This would ultimately kill pvp. I want to pvp, not get killed and have to wait until I can actually kill someone. If this were to happen people would get killed and they would probably log off (much like people do in factions) :coco:

    It would make an already dying aspect of uo die faster (pvp)
     
  29. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,657
    Likes Received:
    9
    What about a point or two of damage to each piece of equipment?
     
  30. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - I like it.
    Energizer bunnies are great because they Duralast until they succumb.
    But, by my agreement, there should be more than a ~30 second delay, after seeing grey, before we can jump right back into the cage and start fighting again.
    Repercussions?
    Yes, by my agreement, there should be more than just a bit of gold loss for losing a round.
     
  31. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend GoT

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2003
    Messages:
    3,620
    Likes Received:
    1,382
    AH HA!!! Tons of others felt the same way, hence the introduction of Trammel..
     
  32. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
    Professional Stratics Veteran Campaign Supporter Gilfane

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    4,840
    Likes Received:
    1,292
    I think it´s a good idea... :thumbsup:
     
  33. Hehe,

    We have factions if you want stat. Let's not try to be WoW or LOTR Online here guys.


    Add more faction rewards to pvp... "Unique Rewards" that are actually worth your time. You'll see everyone in factions and you'll have your resurrection sickness.


    I personally vote no, but that's only my opinion.


    We should be working on things like a better friend system, "tells", etc.

    Then of course, dupes, scripting resource/gold gatherers, greater dragons fire breathe attack being brought down to 50, and moving shot having increase mana cost.

    Those are the most important issues imo.

    and bugged quivers......
     
  34. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,154
    Likes Received:
    708
    If they ever do something serious to factions that skill loss percentage has to be bumped up also to a minimum of 45% to compensate for 120 skill caps.
     
  35. Krystal

    Krystal Sage
    Stratics Veteran TnT/TnA

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    725
    Likes Received:
    22
    i think every player should go into stat 5-10 min when they die in PvP. not just faction players....
     
  36. Anakena

    Anakena Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    324
    Likes Received:
    2
    I find it normal for a guild of 20 people to dispatch 5 people raiding. Should they be rezzed and come back immediately in the fight, they are more likely to get spanked again.

    You must see it from another point of vue. With Resurrection sickness, if you have a better tactic, 5 people well organized can actually win against 20 people by using some guerilla tactic and putting them one by one in "skill loss". Right now, but without skill loss, you can do it already, but as they keep rezzing and coming back, you can win some skirmishes, but not the battle.
     
  37. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 27, 2008
    Messages:
    875
    Likes Received:
    0
    Someone outside of serious PVP trying to tell us what should happen should we die and wants it to be for PVP only. :talktothehand:

    Anakena, with ressurection sickness all you'll get is 20 people spanking 5 people to the point that they cannot even return to battle to make it fun enough. The 5 people will not have the chance to keep up guerilla tactics if they die even once and 80% of the times the casualties will start on their side. Just bring more people and forget penalties because if you do bring more people, it's an EVEN FIGHT AND NEEDS NO "BALANCING" PENALTY because it kills the fun on both -now equal- sides, because UO's combat is based on "respawning" just like Battlefield and Unreal. Change the CORE of combat, then talk changing dying.

    If PVP was methodic, tactical, slow and full of timers or forced us to walk long distances back to our bodies like in other MMOs I'd vote 'Yes'. I'd even suggest a player should be unable to run if they are lower than 50% Health and/or Stamina and unable to cast anything or use any ability with lower than 20% Mana!

    But UO PVP is about teleporting/recalling/gating/public moongates/riding ethereal mounts, fast restocking of consumables and is as fast paced as Unreal Tournament. People die in 3-4 seconds in gangs or Zerg fights. No time. So it requires fast regrouping, and gimplates or Zerging are THE only 'tactics'.

    Plus items replace skills so all YOU need is numbers too. There's no Rock-Scissors-Paper, better to have a horde than a team of select individuals. Unless EA fixes PVP. And you'd want your Zergs able to regroup EXACTLY as fast, or EXACTLY as slow as the enemy. It's bad, it's not logical but it's also the closest we got to BALANCE at the moment.
    Either on the receiving end or not, nobody should be penalised for dying. It's EXACTLY the same as EVERYONE getting penalty for dying, only more fun because battle is constant as it is now, and is about PERSISTENCY AND WILLPOWER.

    When UO changes to the point that it requires timing, coordination, true tactics and templates(and their items) working together to eliminate disadvantages(which means you'll need a class system of sorts) of each individual, then we can talk rewarding teamwork by making the results of small groups destroying larger ones worth the time.

    For now settle with having the rights to brag and finding more people to ride with so that you outnumber your enemy. Or just stick to PVM? :next:
     
  38. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend Secret Society

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2001
    Messages:
    35,539
    Likes Received:
    908
    x2...la
     
  39. I disagree with a penalty for deaths... in regular PvP (yew gate, t2a)

    I would love for them to reinstate the legacy dungeon death rule though.

    Kick Players out of Despise/Destard/Deceit for 10 minutes upon death. I used to love this rule and it made teamwork so important and fights much more exciting.
     
  40. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2004
    Messages:
    5,912
    Likes Received:
    1,186
    Fully agree, always thought it would be a GREAT addition, its horrible that you can die, get rezzed and healed, click your body and be 100% ready to continue battle.
     
  41. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2004
    Messages:
    5,912
    Likes Received:
    1,186
    Not sure if you have played factions before, but you are still worth while while in stat, heals, cures, and also using low lvl spells to kill more people... I never stop pvping when im in STATLOSS from factions... it's just another element of the game.
     
  42. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,154
    Likes Received:
    708
    So far 65% think there should be some type of penalty for dying in PVP situations (after discounting the non-PVP votes).
     
  43. originian

    originian Guest


    Id vote against this. This isnt WOW ya know. Thats what WOW has is resurrection sickness.
     
  44. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,154
    Likes Received:
    708
    UO also used to have resurrection sickness, it was called having to restock.
     
  45. Cap Physical at 75 for all faction players. Bing badda boom, you have everyone in factions.
     
  46. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,160
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    Poorly thought out & extremely bad idea.

    If a person dies 1 vs 5 to a gank squad he/she should have to wait a certain amount of time to start playing again? Just plain silly.

    Uhh people, we need to think about all scenarios before we start spouting.

    Obviously the OP means this to be more relevant in larger battles but IMO large battles generally have little to do with actual pvp skill and alot more to do with who has the best 'caller' and who can blindly follow group commands(and who is most effectively playing the 'gimplate of the month')
    All well and good but not any real test of pvp skills and no reason to butcher up the current 1 vs 1 pvp scene(and yes there is still a 1 vs 1 pvp scene even though most of you scary board warriors run from it and so deny its existence)

    You want bs penalties and wait times? Join factions.

    Peace :)
     
  47. Draxous

    Draxous Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2004
    Messages:
    5,126
    Likes Received:
    29
    lol... SO when 5 people go against an enemy, they'd like to try over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again until they finally win because the other team had to go to sleep because they have to get up for work the next morning.

    That idea is pretty stupid tbh.