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Revamp UO

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Pinco, May 6, 2013.

  1. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    I know this topic has been discussed many times, but I'd like to share some ideas I got by speaking with a friend about UO.

    UNDENIABLE FACTS:
    - UO is old, the graphic is outdated
    - You must pay a monthly fee

    WHAT THE PEOPLE WANT:
    have fun (obv), play with friends, have a cool character, feel special, collect.

    NOTICE
    Now, let's see the things from with detachment like new players who don't care at all about the fate of UO, we just want to play and we don't care about anything else (no fanboy talk, no doomsday talk).

    ANALYSIS
    The graphic can be ugly, there are older games that stills fun and new games with pixel graphic that are pretty good, so we can pass through this point.
    The montly fee is a bit high, but if the game is fun I think we can afford it.

    Now let's see about what the "people want" (us in our case):

    HAVE FUN
    UO has a lot of contents, but all of it is pure grinding so after a while it stops to be fun and became a real job not fun at all.
    There are the EM events, but unfortunatly, we work at the night shift so we cannot partecipate.
    There are major events, but each phase of this event can be completed in half day (TOP), and next phase will come up in not less than a month.

    As you can see at this point a detached person (no fanboy), would be bored to tears and quit.
    This can be fixed by adding small events every week that keep the people busy and when the events are over, the other static contents will give the player some random fun until the next event is ready.

    I've not counted the pvp since it's like the other static activities, you can always do that.
    I've not counted the rpg since it's like the EM events and you must be available when the storyteller is around.

    PLAY WITH FRIENDS
    In UO, having friends is a malus if you like pvm. In fact the more are the people the less you gain (the gold will be split between everyone and the artifact drop chance became far lower). This just push the people to play solo and it generates frustration when someone else join your hunting spot because your profit will be split in half.

    The only solution here is to give to every attacker a full loot so everyone can play more relaxed and see other people like "someone who want to help and have fun" instead of "someone who came to ruin my game".

    HAVE A COOL CHARACTER
    like every mmorpg we all want a character that looks cool, but since this game is item based and there are so many slots to fill, we are all forced to use items that we don't like. An example is the robe, everyone should have one to get it's properties, but what if I like to go around with a plate armor instead of a nightdress?
    we can't without sacrifying part of our power.

    This is something really hard to accept for people who likes to look cool, pushing people to choose between fashion and power is always wrong.
    About this topic there are a lot of ideas around, from the tool which transform an item into another of the same layer to the transferring of all mods of the equipment into a ring.
    Personally I think we could have an option somewhere that allows to choose what kind of item we'd like to see equipped so the real items equipped will be just used to get the magical properties...

    FEEL SPECIAL
    everybody likes to feel somehow special, and many other games tend to make the player a hero that saves the world. UO on the other hand makes the player a plain citizen without a chance to be something else.

    In the latest times, the duels system and the election system have given to the player the chance to became something more than mr noone, but I think we should have more ways to achieve that.
    A really nice way to make people to feel special and also giving them something fun to do is to implement automatic contests like this ones:
    - Fishing contest: the one who catch the biggest fish in 1 hour wins, and the winner will be recognized everywhere as the best fisherman in the world
    - Crafting: a special order will be given to all the participants (like a bod but with the requirements of some hard items to craft). The winner will be recognized everywhere as the best craftsman in the world.
    - Hunter: a champion/peerless name will be given to the participants, they have to kill the requested boss to complete the contest. The winner will be the one who kills the boss in the less time (with or without a party), and will be recognized as the best hunter in the world.

    The npc should also speak about the winners when a player pass nearby, for example near the docks everyone should speak about the best fisherman in the world, in the craftsmen shop they should talk about the best craftsman in the world, and so on... Also the towncrier should say something as random news :)

    COLLECT
    many people likes to collect, it's probably part of the human nature the need of collecting nice things. In UO there are an endless number of items to collect, and the EM keep introducing more and more.
    I think the nice thing about collecting is the knowledge that soon or later you can complete your collection and show it to your friends.
    Unfortunately right now there are too many items that not even a castle can hold, and the worst thing for a collector is being unable to shows his collections.

    To fix this mess, we should have a "Collector Box" where you can put all the items we collect inside without consuming house space (obiously it should have no limits for items number or weight). This box should allow everyone to see the collection but only the one who put the items inside can remove them. Also removing items from the container should have a price (in order to prevent that people uses it as normal container).

    Another kind of collection that most people like, is the Achievements. Having an Achievements system will surely be another fun way to collect something without the burden of items to keep somewhere.


    And that's all we have discussed. I know the devs have their own way to try to keep the players around by adding more and more items, but I think it's time to see the whole picture and start to consolidate the weak spot of this game. There are no new players not because it's an old game or because it cost too much, but because there is not enough involvement and almost all the new players just feels lost and purposeless after 5 minutes.
     
  2. Kei

    Kei Knight of Kingdom of God
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    I personally prefer subscription based game. I find free to play games are really just pay to win with their cash shops.

    The idea of a new graphic engine is and will always be the most wanted revamp. Who knows, with the restructuring in EA, maybe some new smart executives might want to invest in UO again.
     
  3. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    To sum up, you are very concerned with how your characters look and you just want more items, items, items.
    And ofc more space to stockpile and show off all your items, items, items.
    Ohh, and you referred to pvp as a 'static activity'

    You definitely have your finger on the pulse of UO :)
     
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  4. silent

    silent Lore Master
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    My biggest complaint is the grind. Reduce the amount of useless items that drop, instead have fewer drops but drops that are quality and usable. Graphics don't bother me I liked them when I first started playing the game and i'm still fine with them.
     
  5. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    UO does lack fun. The game does have far to much grind. Game play lacks a sense of accomplishment. Level-based games provide that by your gaining the next level. Some way of showing what you've accomplished does indeed need to be added to the game. Maybe have a mouse-over could show a brief list of the five greatest things you have done if it's turned on when your not out hunting where it would be in the way of play? Items selected from a automated game provided list by the player? Choices like your killing of the Stygian Dragon, a PvPer you've beaten, a powerful item you've crafted, an EM event 'Helped destroy the vile notorious who-ever', or something more relaxed such as 'the backwoods fletcher' for those more casual players like me. Let the accomplishment banner be typed by each player to show what they would most like to be known for?

    The game's grind nature is likely it's biggest fault. The player time investments required to do most things are just to long. Logging in to play a game should carry a feeling of anticipation and at least a twinge of excitement, not a sense of weariness from knowing your going to be expending your few hours of free time slogging through farming a monster to try and finally get another resource of which you still need 8 more of to have the 10 required to do what you want to do, or your going to have to spend it wading through all the math of suit designing to figure out what resources your going to need to have with the 'ah dang it' feeling weighing down your mood as you think of all the future free time it's going to take to farm all those required items or the gold to buy some of them.

    The Devs seem to think that making things you do take more and more time to do makes the game more fun. You'd think the shrinking number of paying customers and the posts in forums might make them wonder if they are wrong about that. Apparently not though.

    I'm getting out old games to play. They provide entertainment, unlike UO.
     
  6. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    Two thought:

    Grind is bad, bad, bad! I completely agree with the idea of fewer drops overall, but more useful ones when they do drop. Also agree with the loot distribution. They seem to be moving some of the newer bosses to give all attackers a shot at an arti drop... all old bosses should be converted to this ASAP.

    Predictability! UO is very uniform in its mob encounters. IMO this needs to change. We need random uber boss encounters for top end PvM. My thinking is something along the lines of a boss encounter with randomly selected combinations of current boss specials. For instance, a Stygian dragon with the combine specials of corgul and a Harry... Or a slasher with the attacks of Cora and a crimson dragon. Let them spawn at 2 hour intervals in any random spot... and I do mean ANY... Luna, destard, abyss, anywhere (Ilsh would even get paragon versions). Have them reset at server up each day (so 12 spawn per day per shard). Then give them an increased boast to the arti drop (say 50%) to drop any random boss arti.
     
  7. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    The subscription is too high right now for the service we have...

    IMHO it will never happen, they are 4 people working on UO and a new graphics for a game huge like UO requires MUCH more people...

    yes, I'm concerned with the characters look, but I DON'T want more items... even if I'd like to have more space :D

    In the long range it is a static activity... the templates are always the same, the people too, is like playing cards at the bar in the evening, it could be fun but it's a static activity :p

    yes, grinding is the dead of this game. Look games like diablo 3, it's a full grinding game and they are losing people now because the prices of what you sell is too low to earn something and grinding is not fun after a short while...

    I agree, more random = more fun. Having a static world with everything always at the same place it's like looking at a picture, how long you can stare it before you get bored? :D
    Unless the devs are not taking the blizzard idea of: "the game is not supposed to provide fun forever", because if they do, they can shut down everything right now :p
     
  8. gunneroforgin

    gunneroforgin Slightly Crazed
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    sorry folks, but the look and feel of the classic clent IS what I love about this game. I will fight tooth and nail to keep the classic client.
     
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  9. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    that's not the point of the post, and right now there is more chances to get the peace in the world than getting a new client (or a new graphic) for UO :lol:
     
    #9 Pinco, May 6, 2013
    Last edited: May 6, 2013
  10. Gorbs

    Gorbs Sage
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    I wouldn't complain if they dropped the subscription fee. I agree it's arguable they are not providing all the implied support for what we are charged.
     
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  11. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I don't see them doing much of anything at all but adding more pixel crack. I definitely don't see them finishing any major revamps of anything...

    Don't see them making any changes much that require an actual change to the code other than a swap of this for that or a change of color or something to an item.

    Sadly with the lack of DEV's we have now I seriously don't think they will be doing anything other than maintaining the status quo... Which means same stuff new day.

    I really like what you said Pinco. And I agree with most everything. I'd like to see loot drops that give everyone full drops so more folk will hunt together. But if that is done then they need to do that only on "major" mobs. Reduce the amount of drops but up the quality and make everyone an equal. Put COMMUNITY back in UO. Sick of the Greedfest myself.

    I also agree about the Grind. No one wants to grind something all day. Problem with most of what we have in UO is ok you grind fishing quests trying to get say Lava Hooks or a 120 Fishing PS. Grind and grind and grind away at it all the while fishing, fishing, fishing and more fishing...... noting that the crabs and lobsters 90% of what you get is the unnamed stuff.... It's frustratingly SLOW. Chances of actually getting the item you want are few and far between.

    Many items in UO are what I call "Stupid Rare". In other words you could spend every hour you had of a 2 week holiday playing UO say 18 hours a day for 2 weeks and not once get the item you are after. There is NO reason to make stuff Stupid Rare. It just makes everyone frustrated, gives scripters and other cheaters including dupers something to script or dupe to bilk true players out of hard earned gold. And then those in turn who've gotten bilked are upset about getting scammed with a dupe or cheated out of gold in some scam and they QUIT. This happens all too often.

    As far as looks go I like the one fella's idea awhile back about making an "invisible" dye.... so I can dye my robe or other ugly item with it so it can't be seen. Goodbye ugly Mempo..... or robe .... that's what I want to see....... if I can't have what I really want which would be to just alter an item into another so long as it keeps the same properties and slot. I see no reason why I can't alter an ugly mempo into a nice leaf gorget.... this of course would also stop all this Gargoyle/Elf only nonsense and allow people to really make a suit. EQUALITY.
     
  12. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
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    EA just needs to sell UO. As long as EA is in control it`ll be on maintenance mode till the end.

    I have seen lots of F2P games change ownership and many times turn a sinking ship around with new idea`s and more funding.

    But I love everything ya said in your OP.

    I can especially relate to the detached part. I play in the winter while I`m laid off and by spring I barely log on anymore. It doesn`t take long to collect things ya want than its just a grind..... and for what? Ya kill stuff to get stuff and than ya sell stuff. Thats it. Not much purpose, I like your idea`s on weekly stuff that is unique from week to week.
     
    #12 Mitzlplik_LS, May 6, 2013
    Last edited: May 6, 2013
  13. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Consider it a bit of lost faith in my eyes, but in my mind it comes down to a competition: Which game shows the most progress by the end of this year... UO or Shroud of the Avatar. While I'm pledged in at the Collector ($150 for all 5 "episodes" plus a laundry list of both virtual and physical goodies) level for SotA, that doesn't guarantee that it will take the place of UO when the time comes.

    However, unless UO can show me some progress, especially on the EC side (just to calm some nerves, I'm ONLY talking about the EC side and not anything against the CC) in terms of the High Res update and a significant improvement or elimination of several gameplay issues that have been a problem since the day the EC was released (You Cannot Pick That Up, and the random tile-jumping as the main two in my book) and SotA DOES deliver on what's been advertised, I could easily see myself ending my time in UO.

    I've been considering a long-winded editorial type post about this myself, but the above pretty much sums it all up. Back when Kingdom Reborn was announced was easily the most exciting time in UO for me since the beginning (obviously for different reasons, back in the beginning UO was new to everyone, during the events leading up to KR, it looked like they had a Dev Team willing to take the chance to update the game as a whole). This obviously has since reversed itself and layoff after layoff later shows no real sign of improvement in my eyes. The ideas are there in the letters from the devs and the anniversary presentation, but is that the reality anymore?

    So UO or SotA for me... it depends on where each one is later this year.
     
  14. Lord Nabin

    Lord Nabin High Council Sage - Greater Sosaria
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    *turns another page in his ancient tome and takes a sip of good old Moonglow Red*

    *looks up and then settles back into the comfy old chair*
     
  15. Victim of Siege

    Victim of Siege Crazed Zealot
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    *turns the 5 Barrels of Moonglow Red in his cellar*
     
  16. Flutter

    Flutter Always Present
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    Pinco thank you so much for putting such thought into the game. Unfortunately I don't think we have the manpower to revamp UO. I think Mesanna is running it almost solo. It's basically in maintenance mode aside from the couple of people who have fun ideas and spare time left on the team.
     
  17. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Here's a few things they "Could" do that would certainly up the number of people being happy.

    Rotate the following events to last only 2 weeks two weeks of an open event then 2 weeks off then another open event for 2 weeks then off.....

    Turn in the ToT for 2 weeks...... Add a couple new items and then put some 50 charge dyes back in the turn in so folk can get neat new dyes. (Rotate these out each time the event is back on)

    After another 2 weeks put the Vanguard in the spot where Blackthorns was in Illshenar.... Let us have Dread Warhorses again..... have them spawn like before at Midnight..... This would make Tamers VERY happy.

    Then another 2 week break and then fire up the Ophids attacking the Territhans..... allowing folk to build up their loyalties again..... turn that off for 2 weeks then roll in the Bane Chosen again at Blackthorns and Spirit.... Let us build up loyalty there again....

    Then we could have an uprising of deamons on Fire island or something where they pour out of the deamon temple.... or something..... wouldn't be too hard. Add a few goodies to drop like random Rubble or something....

    Let the Ophids or something invade Papua... or something ..... add in some goods....

    Think up a couple other invasions to do to add to the rotation and just keep rotating them..... on two weeks off two weeks..... different event each time then recycle thru them .... not that hard.

    The EM's can play off the invasions as well if they want..... would be great. Would certainly breathe some life back into UO.
     
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  18. cdavbar

    cdavbar Lore Master
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    NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I am days away from getting my Castle, I have waited since BETA for this day!
     
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  19. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    the small time they had is wasted on making new items and long complex events that takes more time to be made than the time you need to complete it ...

    I said if they follow the idea of: "the game is not supposed to provide fun forever" they should take it down :p
     
    #19 Pinco, May 7, 2013
    Last edited: May 7, 2013
  20. Daelomin

    Daelomin Journeyman
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    I do believe it has come to a point where radical changes are required. Why? - Because the decline in players or developer resources simply will not end.
    Decline in population results in less incentives to log in and play - it is an interconnected vicious circle.
    For new players - it's like experiencing a ghost town - with very few people to "learn" from...
    For veteran players - Items as well as the Systems (champ spawn, peerless, dungeons etc) drops in demand and interest. The competition, the risk or the reward for in game events simply do not appeal.

    In the last two years - Attempts have been made to add new systems/stuff to appeal both current and new players but in my opinion they have failed.
    Be it Revamped dungeons (like New Despise design or New Covetous system), or Revamped Magincia, Ship upgrades, Armor revamp, City Loyalty, Faction changes etc, the design for these updates were not very well thought through and lacked long term orientation. Off course some ppl enjoy these new additions but the majority do not and it has not helped the population.
    In my opionion - Game design should always be focused on fun/simplicity but at the same time inspire and keep balance.
    Poor example: In one thread I saw a weapon from Shame with 18 different mods. If I was a somewhat new player and saw this I would scratch my head.
    A game with such good mechanics like UO does not need to be made more advanced to appeal.
    Good example: The Champion Spawn system. Very well thought out. Brings Competition, Risk, Rewards, Teamwork, End game etc. etc.

    A question, how do one add content and let a game evolve that is 10-15 years old without making too complex and to keep it competetive and fun?
    For me it come down to two major things...

    - Set a very high bar for game design and only allow brilliant quality designs to pass through rather than rash updates that annihilate existing content. Add fewer things with quality rather than systems that will be abbandoned after a few weeks. Also, rather add something unique rather than copying existing stuff.

    - Narrow the range between new players and existing ones. ie less advanced stuff and more stuff for new players.
    Rather than focusing on end game content add:
    Less complicated item system, New skills, New races, Better guidence for new players, In game web browser functionality for game info.

    As for radical changes required, merging servers could be a good idea. I would rather have more people playing on my shard than I love the existing location of my house and items tbh.
     
    #20 Daelomin, May 7, 2013
    Last edited: May 7, 2013
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  21. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    new skills, races, ecc... do not raise any interest. The game lacks of endgame activities different than grinding.
    You enjoy the game while you make the character and the equipment, and then the game is over. The EM events are just for the few who can log at precise time of day, the major events are completed in less than a day and all you have to do is grinding.

    A guidance for new players is pretty useless if they don't have an objective. When you enter the game, you need an NPC that plots your adventures so you enjoy a "Main Questline" and you'll be able to see all the activities of the game, and by playing you start to understand the mechanics and what you need. Something like GTA, there is a main storyline to follow but you can do whatever you want in the meantime, then when the storyline is over you do what you want but at this point you also know the game. Then weekly events + EM events will entertain the people and the grinding activities became secondary, and this will really makes the people enjoy the game...
     
  22. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I think we need to give up on the idea of a major revamping of the game.

    They need to finish the Enhanced Client (or at least move closer to finishing) and provide more story-driven, temporary content. In a rather inelegant restatement: **** to look at, **** to do. (Ok clients are more than **** to look at but you get the idea.)

    Some of the content ideas (Malag's rotating content idea in particular -- though it should be more like 1 to 3 months instead of 2 weeks) are worthy. I am a big supporter of the EM events, but also a big supporter of content that has a story but isn't necessarily EM-driven.

    And yes I know that some things, Despise for example, have a story, but that isn't the same thing as, say, Vanguard Controllers being spotted in Ilshenar. Despise's story is a backdrop. Important but not the same thing as story-driven content that exploits the fact that we have a lot of content in UO, floating around in the background.

    Invasions are great but it doesn't have to be invasions.

    Our sister game, Dark Age of Camelot, has had the following things over the last few years. (I check their site periodically.)
    • An invasion of the Picts.
    • PvP against their dev team (it was part of DAoC's "realm vs realm" thing).
    • A gypsy caravan, selling unique items at a high fee.
    • A global boss temporarily spawning at various times in one of the maps. (Looks like they've done variants on this one several times.)
    No idea how many of these would work in UO, and no idea if the size of the current team can support any of them. But you get the idea.

    I have no idea, btw, which I'd pick if it was between this stuff and big global storylines. I hope it's not, though. But I'd surely take a delay in the dungeon revamps for some of this stuff, for my part.

    One of the frustrating things is that we really don't have a context for what's possible and what's not given the diminished team and the aged game. And, dear God, I ****ing hate it when my fellow players (and no I don't mean this thread, I mean other threads) outline some elaborate thing and claim "this would be easy to do." No, likely it is not.

    Hmm. This was kinda rambling. Going to stop now.

    -Galen's player
     
  23. bsluspo

    bsluspo Adventurer
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    One way to remove grinding is to change from "how many times you have done an action" to "for how long you have been doing it".
    Suppose an item has a certain probability to drop when a boss monster is killed, let's say 1 every 1000. That means that in order to be sure to get the item, you must kill it from a minimum of 500 times to a maximum of 2000 times.
    Now we change the perspective.
    The following rule is implemented: if you kill the monster at least one time every day, after a maximum number of 30 days you can be sure that the item has dropped (in you backpack or even in the bankbox).
    This way it will be useless to keep killing the boss again and again and again, since if today you have killed the monster, it will be useless to kill it again until tomorrow, if your only objective is to get that particular item.
     
  24. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    decline in "developer resources" Wtf are you talking about?

    I have been playing and pvping/pvming for the past 14 years and I see just as much today as I saw 14 years ago. New content (good or bad) keeps getting added and the game is 100x more stabile then it was years ago.

    What is wrong with people that they feel the need to check out the the day to day business dealings of an MMORPG company and then go on a forum to post incessant doom and gloom?

    I know for a fact that the game is evolving and currently running smoothly so I personally dont give a rats arse if they fire 200 people.

    Maybe if people were logging in to check the game out instead of reading the Wall Street Journal to check out the game they would have a clue?

    My 2 cents...
     
  25. cdavbar

    cdavbar Lore Master
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    All I hear is, "make it so I only have to kill something a maximum of thirty times and I'm guaranteed a drop". Some things should have ultra rare drop rates. Slithers for example, why do people complain about the super low drop on them? That drop is payoff for hours of hard work for the person or groups that do Medusa. Guaranteeing a drop at least once every thirty days (given your one kill a day scenario) would flood the market with items, ruin the already out of balance economy, and take the "fun" out of getting those rarer, harder to drop items.

    Corgul is a variant of your idea in a way. He is guaranteed to drop a certain amount of items to the top attackers etc. That is crap. There should never be ANY guaranteed drop! Again if this is about bringing any fun to the game, all it does is drive fun out of the game.
     
  26. Flagg

    Flagg Sage

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    We are just preaching to the steadily deminishing choir here. It is all up to EA and Mythic. Instead of having, say MORE THAN FOUR PEOPLE WORKING ON UO we get 200mil investments on SW:TOR and, in scale more reasonable, we got Mythic investing on brand new Ultima game that literally everybody will hate. Since UO undeniably is a grand game with very good heart, if even crumbles of recourses wasted on BS such as that were poured on UO, we would not have to get desperate enough to post in threads like these:(

    I recon well over two million people have at one point or another had an active subscription @ OSI. When we speak of things like " Attracting new players" or when we say things like " today, I met a new player in game!" in practise we mostly speak of return of some guy or another who used to play in 1999, or 2003,or 2009. I'd say like..8 times out of 10 when sub. base of UO increases by one, it is because such person has returned to game. Such person occasionally returning is largest single factor generating inbound traffic to UO's direction. Return of these people has been made exceptionally dififcult.

    Scenario: Last you played UO was in, say 2003. You got bored but also got fond memories. Thusly, you joined many who decide to give it a new try via a free trial. You notice you still enjoy the game and community surprisingly much!! You decide to strart playing again. Time to activate your real account!

    Ok. Here are the things you need to figure out:
    - You have to create an EA Master account. This one is also your Origin account on some supernatural meta level, but nobody actually explains this to you properly on any of the screens you see when navigating about in uo.com. If your email already has Origin account, I'm assuming this goes both ways. So you might actually already have an EA Master Account and create a new one by mistake. If you switch password to say, Origin account you also switch password of your master account. Nobody in EA but Mythic speaks of " EA MAster Account" anymore.
    - Mythic master account. Some mysterious thing that happened at one point or another. You need to link this to your EA account and before that you need to link your UO accounts to the Mythic account. Assuming you get through persistent suggestions by Mythic's site that you really might wanna try Warhammer or DAOC instead, you finally end up in your account screen. UO accounts you hopefully just linked to either EA or Mythic accounts or both now appear in confusing tiny drop down menu that is easy to miss. You pick any of your UO accounts from this menu, and THEEN you eventually get a chnage to find a screen where you can actually activate your account.
    - Since this example guy hasn't been playing UO in 10 years, he has absolutely no clue what his last UO password might have been. Since his UO account is not linked to Mythic or EA or Origin or whatever, he has no automated way to retrieve or reset the long forgotten UO password(s) anymore. Instead of having this automated password retrieval literaly every other MMO provides, it used to be possible to retrieve the passwords by emailing UO support staff. The process would take 3-5 days. From what I've understood this is no longer something you can do(??) Nowadays, you (apparently?) have to contact EA's own general all products covering customer support. Which translates into " may God help you if you have forgotten a password to unlinked account"

    In conclusion, may god help you if you are a returning vet who'd like to activate an old account but have forgotten your password. Managing to do so means an insane grind through ****, blood and agony.

    I'm depressed Mythic clearly has no intention to fix anything account managment related. In eyes of someone who hasn't been playing UO in a long time, Acc managment looks confusing, depressing and cumbersome as hell. It has single handedly turned off hundrerds of potential impulse subscribers. It is exceptionallky frustrating since fixing these functions is something that sounds perfectly reasonable in scale. We don't speak of new graphics engine, or massive revamp it'd take to make UO F2P, or some magic stunt that'd result in dev team that can't be counted with fingers of one hand. We speak of HAVING A HALF DECENT GODDAMN WWW SITE FOR YOUR MMO.
     
    #26 Flagg, May 8, 2013
    Last edited: May 8, 2013
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  27. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    The economy has gone to hell long time ago..... quit bringing that up... Scripters and dupers and other such people have ruined the economy YEARS ago and it's NEVER recovered. The "Average" Joe gamer does NOT have multibillions in gold to buy whatever they want....Now the "Rares" collectors are ruining game play for the rest of the people by getting the DEV's thinking that Stupid rare is awesome... Stupid rare is only good for the SELLERS who make multibillions and make a business out of the game by selling GOLD and other items for RL $. I wish people would get this straight and see WTF is going on for what it is and stop playing into their hands. Sellers are the ones who are driving the greed and making the economy go further into the abyss... This creates an income that people EXPLOIT..... by SCRIPTING and other foul things...... and lets not forget promoting BS like mister Script spam bot in HAVEN spouting 24/7 about gold sales..... WHERE Do you think this gold comes from?????

    Rare is fine stupid RARE is STUPID.... No sense to it at all..... Doom now has the right idea where the more often you do it the higher your chance of getting a drop.... WTF is wrong with that? Why can't that be more the norm? Fun is NOT grinding out the same mob 45,000 times trying to get one item. Fun is NOT clicking 99 times to create one item... Fun is NOT gathering 500 different ingredients to create something that takes 10 seconds to use up....
     
  28. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Siege economy is still fine. Just needs more participants. :p

    Insurance and tram is what killed the economy, so that can't really be fixed.
     
  29. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    "Uvtha does not like insurance and tram; therefore it killed the economy."

    Your logic is, as I hope you are aware, not quite unassailable.

    There's never really been a good definition of what a wrecked economy is IRL, let alone in a game. We players variously have used it to refer to things being too expensive or things being too cheap.

    If the issue is too much gold then insurance doubtlessly helps. Even when things had to be replaced, then remember that no gold actually left the economy to replace things, assuming we're talking about buying from other players. And that takes no gold from the economy unless the player you buy from dumps his or her gold into the garbage bins.

    Which few of us do.

    If the issue is just buying more things more often generally, then how long before others call that a "grind" and criticize it?

    And of course by Trammel being an economic issue you likely mean "I can no longer kill people with my friends and steal their stuff."

    *shrugs*

    -Galen's player
     
  30. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Siege economy is still fine.
     
  31. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Scripting is a large part of what killed the economy. Scripting only happens in tram.

    Uninterrupted monster farming caused massive gold, and item quality inflation. Happened because of tram.

    People no longer need to replace items at any appreciable clip, as such power creep ensues constricting the range of sellable items, and cranking up the price on everything, and lessening the number of people able to actively participate in regular buying and selling of items of different values. Only possible because of insurance.

    It's not an matter of me not liking it, frankly I could care less so long as I have an alternative, which I do. It's a matter of direct and clear correlations. But every time someone talks about the economy being ruined I have to point out that they got what they asked for.
    Have there been other factors that damaged the economy? Sure. But none have come close to the massive damage those two things cause.

    Proof is in the pudding. Siege with neither of these issues, has none of these problems, and has had a fairly stable economy with trade happening on all levels from 100 gold to 10 million, frequently, with hardly any inflation compared to prodo shards.

    And I have never been a pk. Its just that the parts of the game I like best only work in situation of risk and item loss. I have zero problem with people wanting safety and no item loss, but the have to realize there is a direct cost to that kind of set up, just like there is a direct cost to the opposite. Neither is better, they just have different downsides.
    In this case a crap economy is one of the downsides of safety.

    Perhaps your pro tram bias is just as bad as the bias you claim others have.
     
    #31 Uvtha, May 8, 2013
    Last edited: May 8, 2013
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  32. Ron Silverbeard

    Ron Silverbeard Certifiable
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  33. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Blatant lie.

    Or, the folks who've boasted of killing scripters in Fel are lying. (If they kill one, how many are there that are out there un-killed?)

    Or those who've claimed that their opponents are using healing scripts or the like also are lying.

    Either way to say scripting only happens in Trammel is unsupported, and unsupportable, by any evidence.

    Two of the most-obvious gold farming scripters I've seen, both on the LS shard, were in Fel. One was in Ice Dungeon with the pre-nerfed Ice Fiend spawn. I forget where the other one was. (Delucia passage maybe?) I've also seen accusations of scripted silver farming in Factions (though never witnessed it myself).

    And we're sooner or later also left with the issue of what it means to have a broken economy. If scripting keeps prices low, as some have argued here publicly on these boards, then that fits what some seem to consider the opposite of a broken economy.

    And fits what some consider a broken economy.

    The use of the qualifier of "uninterrupted" is curious unless one considers your actual intent: To justify player killing.

    In terms of mere monster farming by itself it does occur in Felucca (see above), real playing and scripting both, and even before Trammel an interruption can be avoided, and then the activity returned to later.

    Also really what's it matter if the fellow being interrupted is soon-replaced by someone the interrupter favors?

    In substance it doesn't, of course. But it does matter if one is the interrupter, or that other person who's favored by the interrupter.

    If I understand you correctly I actually dealt with this rather adequately in the post you responded to.

    Also I don't really see your logic. If you no longer have to replace something that could easily drive prices down, as sellers need to lower prices to move goods.

    And again: If the issue in the economy is the availability of gold, as some claim and as you imply by citing farming, then doubtlessly insurance helps by removing gold from the economy, which is something that buying and selling between players by definition does not do.

    Except that they are not clear. Again, "uvtha does not like it" does not mean "it ruined the economy." And, at the end of the day, your preferences really are all you have.

    See above re:the lack of clear definition of a ruined economy and the distinct lack of correlation between what you cite and....Well, anything other than it being stuff you don't like.


    I have information on Siege that differs, and besides, in a long ago (and conveniently deleted) Draconi post, he said rather clearly that Siege was the 2nd lowers populated shard. The lowest was the Asian siege rules shard.

    Siege is, by every measure and by deliberate design, an outlier on everything. (A fact which its players seem to revel in until they decide it's similar enough to the other shards to be able to draw pejorative comparisons.



    We all have our preferences, but I try very hard to not reify mine.

    Not the right decision on Stratics but it's too late for me to change persona now and suddenly argue things in open defiance of reality simply because I like them.

    -Galen's player
     
  34. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    *chuckles* That is pretty twisted logic.
     
  35. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I hate the mess that dueling quotes makes so i'll just post some points.

    1) I knew I should have said "I know this happens in fel ruleset as well, but the ratio is MUCH lower. As well if you find someone scripting in fel you can do something about it. In tram, you can only call a gm and hope for the best." My bad.
    Scripting existed in some extent pre tram, but it exploded post, and it exploded in the tram ruleset. There was a constant outcry from players in that era of how the scriptures were having a noticeable effect on the economy, and all of the players.

    2) I was not the one who said the economy was wrecked. It was Malagaste who I can only assume is a tram player (apologies if not) who said:

    He is far from the first tram player to bemoan the poor state of the prodo economy. I DO agree with him though, that the prodo economy is not good. It functions, but it's very limited IMO.
    So while "I don't like it", may be true, I wasn't even the one who brought it up. But honestly I have nothing to do with it. I like the economy on the shard I play on, that's 90% of the reason I play there.
    Obviously we don't have many players, but when we had 10x the players we have no (more I'm sure) the economy was the same. Better even, as there were more opportunities for trade.

    In my opinion the measure of a good economy is not merely the cost of items, but the range of items that are sold, and the different levels of people selling them. On siege players on every level from day 1 to day 1000 have plenty of economic opportunities, and that in part is because of the much wider range of items that are considered valuable, and a steady need for supplies due to item loss.
    To again be explicit, I am not saying these things don't get traded on prodo shards, I am merely talking about rate, and value.

    3) You seem to think that anyone who plays in a fel ruleset only cares about killing other people and taking their things. I see no point in trying to argue with you about such a hard set bias.

    4) There are 2 major things that differentiate siege from regular shards. No tram, and no insurance. The only other appreciable differences is skill gain speed and the fact the npcs don't buy things, and limited characters. Those have some impact i'll admit, but from all of my personal experience the first two have had a MUCH higher impact.
    We have little inflation power or gold, and no scripters. Never have.
    I'm sorry let me be explicit again: If we have scripters, which I know nothing of, nor have I ever, their numbers are extremely low.



    To quote myself in the previous post



    If you see that as reification, I don't think I could add any anything to change your opinion.



    I know -I- sleep a little sounder at night knowing that we have righteous principled posters like yourself fighting the good fight. Kudos to you good sir. :p
     
    #35 Uvtha, May 8, 2013
    Last edited: May 8, 2013
  36. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I, by contrast, find it useful to quote who I'm responding to.

    You said "only." I react to "only." Really it just makes sense to me to react to what someone said.

    In Fel you can kill a scripter, or anyone else, who happens to have a smaller crowd than you do.

    The real difference, ultimately, is that in Fel you can control who farms, legitimately or through use of scripts.

    It isn't how many people farm, so the problem is only lesser if you only count your favored scripters (or legitimate farmers).

    I actually dealt with this argument of yours, rather adequately, in the previous post, right down to citing examples. I've yet to see anything close to the consistent level of scripted gold farming as I've seen in Fel, LS.

    After something therefore because of something. Works sometimes but not always. You also have to prove a certain causal logic which you've attempted to do but really all you're doing is reifying your playstyle, and then attributing negative characteristics to the playstyle you do not like.

    And that is not the same as logic.

    Scripting, in your fantasy, exists "only" in Trammel. I've adequately explained that this is wrong. Hence the causal chain you attempted to make is broken and all you have is your own preferences, and the willingness to assert them as objective fact.


    See above.

    It is true that you did not say "wrecked." Instead you said:

    In this context it's rather plain that "killed" and "wrecked" are synonymous.

    (Oh and look at that word "only." You attempted to backtrack on this earlier in the post I'm responding to but the definition of the word is rather clear.)


    There's lots of different definitions of good economy and bad economy, but at the end of the day in a virtual economy like this one when most people bemoan the economy they mean "I can't find something I want," "I can't sell something I want to sell at a high enough price," "I can't buy something at a low enough price." And that's a personal thing, which doesn't necessarily say anything about the economy.

    Historically, I've avoided discussions about if the economy is wrecked in some objective standard, because I think they are pointless.

    I react to what I have for years seen and experienced, from a year or so pre-Trammel and all of them post. The Fel players who lack this mentality tend to cluster in Factions where they were driven out by everyone else from Fel seeking the Faction Artifacts.

    At this point you quote yourself saying:


    But neglect to quote the following sentence:

    Objectifying an opinion. Reification.

    *shrugs*

    -Galen's player
     
  37. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    You have good points, but I realize I'm in a bad mood and just looking to fight with someone, so I'm going to stop talking about it. I'd just be further derailing the thread anyway.

    I will just say I was in no way trying to objectify my subjective opinion, I was simply stating it, my conclusion about another persons claim. I never outright said "this is truth" or meant to suggest it. I just assume people will see that I am saying what I observe.
    I am always open to the possibility that my conclusions and opinions are faulty.

    What I mean to say is I can say "Corn is good!" and people can and should reasonably take that to mean "I like corn". Not that I am drawing a line in the sand about the quality of corn. :p
     
    #37 Uvtha, May 8, 2013
    Last edited: May 8, 2013
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  38. cdavbar

    cdavbar Lore Master
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    Really? Going with bsluspo's suggestion would make the game no fun if you were GUARANTEED A MOTHER FLUFFING DROP every thirty days. That is stupid beyond all belief. I just got a Medusa Floor Tile Deed today. My first since SA came out. I have also done well over 1500 Medusa's. You want to know something? IT WAS FUN! Yes I said it, FUN. Now, if I would of been guaranteeing that drop if i just did one every day for thirty days, THEN IT WOULD TAKE THE FUN AND EXCITEMENT OUT OF IT.

    Stop being lazy and either work for your drops or pay up to the ones that do.
     
    #38 cdavbar, May 8, 2013
    Last edited: May 8, 2013
  39. Arrgh

    Arrgh Sage
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    Does Beavis impersonation, "Heh heh, heh heh, you just said EA and smart in the same sentence, heh heh, heh heh..."


    One can hope they are getting their act together...sadly I don't have that much faith in EA from the last 2 years of failures. Good thing I love UO or I'd be outta here.
     
    #39 Arrgh, May 8, 2013
    Last edited: May 8, 2013
  40. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    I want UO how it is, and if it wasn't, it wouldn't be UO, and I wouldn't want it.
     
  41. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Take UO and everything that is in it, every skill, every way pvm and pvp works, every item, etc etc etc.

    Rebuild it looking like Skyrim.

    Call it: Ultima Online Reborn



    Best Game Ever...
     
  42. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Change skyrim to diablo 3 and I agree. :)
     
  43. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
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    Looks great but I`m sure the funcionality of the CC still blows.
     
  44. Shakkara

    Shakkara Slightly Crazed
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    I'm not sure if they actually use the CC or some third party client. They partially rebuilt the interface too, they have this weird character sheet with many tabs which lists basically everything you have in the game. Your money, your skills, your name/race/background/deity, etc. Skill and progression system is completely different from UO from what I can see, it looks much more like a Das Schwarze Auge pen & paper RPG system to me.

    But you and Pinco are right, it is not directly the graphics that make our UO so bad, it is the dated interface and way of interacting with the game that in my opinion is the largest obstacle to new players. When lots of things are going on, it is always impossible to find and target the correct creature on the screen or find the correct corpse you want to loot, those two things really stand out as most frustrating issues with the game. Then there's the small play window and the tiny cramped inventories of the classic client which are the main reasons I don't want to play with that client anymore. I can go on and on and list at least a hundred more small issues with both clients and the outdated way of interacting with the game, but I think you get the idea.
     
    #44 Shakkara, May 12, 2013
    Last edited: May 12, 2013
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  45. budman23

    budman23 Journeyman

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    Stable? Really?
    Atlantic took a 15 day revert in December but its better than ever? You think people didn't leave because of that?
    Havent you noticed a MAJOR population decrease in the last two years?
    Can I get a refund on your 2 cents?
     
  46. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Eve Online is apparently at 500k subscribers. It's 10 years old now and it's increasing in playerbase. Just saying... Obviously UO isn't being managed well at all.
     
  47. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    It's really hard to compare UO with other MMO's when you start to talk about things like Overhauls and how the game is managed (good or bad). Even other games at the decade mark had a significant advantage over UO, they were able to take advantage of advancements in various programming languages due to the rise of the internet that UO simply wasn't available in 1995, when UO's development began. Look at it this way the World Wide Web only turned 4 in 1995 (August 6, 1991).

    It wasn't until 1995 all the restrictions that hampered commercial traffic on the internet were finally removed, and a boom in internet oriented programming took off. It wasn't until 1997 that these advancements took off with the start of the Dot-com Bubble, the same year UO would be released. UO Simply isn't built in a way that would allow an Overhaul without more or less starting over from scratch, and I can understand EA's reluctance to do so considering the cost of such a project when talking about a 15 year old product.
     
  48. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
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    Funny how certain things just vanish ... :postpics:
     
  49. Hannes Erich

    Hannes Erich Seasoned Veteran
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  50. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    EVE is a much more updatable game visually, and a fairly different experience really. Open pvp and heavily economy focus.