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Richard Garriott will make an Ultima successor

Discussion in 'UHall' started by JC the Builder, Feb 28, 2011.

  1. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    Kotaku has posted an article with several quotes from Richard Garriott. One very interesting one is this:

    When you consider he also talks about social gaming, it is obviously going to be multiplayer of some sort. Will it be a full fledged MMO? Who knows. My theory is the current game he is making will bring in the capital to fund his new game. So if it turns out to be a flop like Tabula Rasa, then that will cause a derailment of his plans.

    Kotaku, the Gamer?s Guide
     
  2. Ezekiel Zane

    Ezekiel Zane Grand Inquisitor
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    RG just needs to produce, develop and FUND his own game, leaving out all the capitol and publishing vultures. If he retains 100% control he has the experience and vision to create a successful MMO.
     
  3. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    He formed his own company called Portalarium. So anything he develops his 100% in his creative control.

    A full fledged game today costs 10-20 million dollars to make. A MMO costs up to 100 million to make. While he is a rich guy, he likely does not have that much money floating around. By making a successful game he can bring in investors to fund his more ambitious project.
     
  4. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    Yah especially since he funded his own trip to the ISS, I think that cost him over 20 million...
     
  5. Neutron Bomb

    Neutron Bomb Journeyman
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    Took the words out of my mouth.
     
  6. Deaol

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    Also noted any major release figures stated that this, "Continuation of the Ultima Legacy" won't be released for many many years...

    That sucks oh well.
     
  7. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    I can't tell if you guys are being sarcastic. Garriott is not in the poor house by any means, but Wikipedia has a citation for a podcast where he says he lost all his wealth in the dot com bust. An article on MSN says he ended up paying the bulk of his fortune (30 million) in order to do that space flight. So it sounds like he is in no position to fund a major video game development on his own. He also needs to restore investor confidence after his failure with Tabula Rasa.
     
  8. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    I say it will be more like a facebook game similar to the old Ultima series games if he does anything.
     
  9. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    "Spiritual successor" can mean a lot, or can mean nothing, depending upon one's point of view. We also can't imagine what he thinks he's referring to.

    -Galen's player
     
  10. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - It seems like when I first saw the press releases regarding Portalarium that they were intending to use basic social game creations as a springboard toward creating more immersive 'social games'. UO was created to be a social game. I anticipate his circle will return; he has the ability and, last I saw, it looks like they have culled a competent crew.
     
  11. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    While I don't think you can rule out PvP as a whole, I think the people who may be expecting Lord British's new venture to be a return (in theory, design, or otherwise) to free for all non-con PvP might not get what they are looking for.
     
  12. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    If Garriott's case against NCSoft stands, he's got 28 million coming his way.

    He's also pretty friendly with plenty of people in the Austin gaming/developer community. I don't think money is a problem, but I think it is a factor, hence his rolling this small game out.
     
  13. Neutron Bomb

    Neutron Bomb Journeyman
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    Which will be the time when I'm finished with college. Sounds good to me, lol.
     
  14. Trevelyan

    Trevelyan Guest

    As I have believed for a few years now, developers should stop with multiplayer games. Social networking games-wise, there is still a hole waiting to be filled perhaps, but I think that Garriott should put his efforts (as should other devs) into purely singleplayer experiences.

    So far, Bioware has satisfied me with their singleplayer-only Dragon Age and Mass Effect games. Assassin's Creed bugged me with their entry into multiplayer-ness. I mean come on, no way can I get all the achievements and still have a life!
     
  15. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    I think that's the big difference between UO and the Level/Raid clones.

    UO said "Here's the world from our single player franchise and here's a lot of little stuff you can do in it just like you could in the single players games and more!"

    WoW etc. said "Here's a game inside our world, it's like a single player game, except where you will need anywhere from 15 to 40 people when we say you will."
     
  16. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    Then don't get all the achievements. There's nobody holding a gun to your head.


    And really, I doubt you have a life.
     
  17. birdinforest

    birdinforest Guest

    In my opinion, that is the reason why other UO like MMO games didn't get huge success.

    Do not mean offend, but young people rarely have patient to enjoy a sand box game, they need excitement in the first hour playing. Unfortunately, they are dominating the market in a certain level.
     
  18. Tabula Rasa was not a failure.. it just wasn't a blockbuster.

    I wish I could quote the sources but we were told time and time again that TR was doing fine. It was sustained. It was NCSoft who realised it was never going to be a blockbuster and shut it down. Like they did with 2 other games that same year.

    It's what they do. There is an inside article on their business methods and the fact that they screwed over RG, who won the court case, just goes to show this.
     
  19. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    First off, I think the real difference is in how you play the two style of games at a more basic level.

    In WoW and it's fellow EQ Clones, the player is directed through the game world. Go here for this, go there for that, follow the path the game had determined for you from zone to zone depending on your level. These games have to be built this way, because there's such a power gap between levels. As the player levels up, where he's been is no longer useful, and a new zone is needed. And with that, the game has to have a way to move you from old zone to new zone. So now they do it by quests, directing you where you need to go next. That's one of the ways WoW improved the themepark game design, by showing the player where the next content was in the chain.

    In UO, you decided for yourself. You can go here, or there, and try to get what you decide you want, or build what you decide to build (character wise, house wise, collections wise...). That's why many gamers call it "freedom".

    In current UO, they have walked right up to that line of separation. The idea of "a game for all players" is a bad choice. All games are "niche", including WoW. And they went full bore into their niche, polished it to a high shine, and that's why they have been so successful. Farmville, while not an MMORPG, shows that there is indeed another niche besides WoW. And that's a closer niche to what UO was made as. Look at the numbers. What's really the bigger niche market?

    On top of that, if you look closely, watch closely, you'll see that there is a huge unrest among MMORPG players. These days, on neutral gaming sites, there's about an even split on what gamers say they want between Sandbox and Themepark. You can see many calls for "something different" and "Sandbox". You can also see that a great many WoW players are always trying out new games, but end up going back to WoW. They are looking for something different. They aren't finding it in anything close to a complete game, much less polished.

    Attempts at new Sandbox style games are foolhardy at best. None of them have had the funds to make anything close to "complete". On top of that, they think that wide open PvP is the way to go, and it's most definitely not. Wide open PvP is for FPSers, not MMORPGs. It does not work on a large enough scale to provide the funds to add much content outside of that. Wide open PvP is "King of the Hill" gaming, and no one wants to be a "persistent loser". So they leave for a better experience for themselves, because they cannot compete against players who are driven on an hourly basis to PK everyone around them.

    As far as Sandbox games being enjoyable, they can be just as enjoyable as any other game. They can offer all the same stuff as WoW, less the power gaps that lead to directed game play through zones. If you've played WoW, can you not imagine anything you do in WoW being in a Sandbox game? If you took UO, and made it new in a fully 3D game world, is there anything in WoW that couldn't be included? Even classes could be in a Sandbox game world, as long as they lose those extreme power gaps. Hell, we have "classes" in UO now, in a very loose (and very tailorable) form.

    The key to a great Sandbox game is the exact same key to WoW. Polish, dedication to the game style, and lots and lots of content.
    The thing is, Sandbox style is better in that freedom you get with it. And it's a natural for that "casual" experience that has a huge market out there. You could play Farmville in a Sandbox world. Or you can play "Raid content" in a Sandbox world. You just don't have to be directed through the world and jump through pre-designed hoops to do so, which is caused by said Power Gaps and the level/item grinds and zoned architecture that result from that.
     
  20. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    I don' t even think you have to watch too closely - every time a new MMORPG launches, whether it's Warhammer as an example near to us, or Rift as an example that's dominating the current news, there are always a large group that jump into those games, and those aren't people that have never played MMORPGs. While there maybe some, a lot of them are MMORPG vets who are looking for something different than what they have.

    I have no idea how this will play out over the long run, but I think the fact that so many are restless MMORPG players will influence game design. Designers are going to work to keep those people playing past the first few hours. BioWare even gave an interview where they discussed how many people left in the first few hours on one of their single-player games and how it influenced them to design the opening stages of Dragon Age 2. Because the BioWare executives are so concerned about this, I wonder if it was passed down to the UO team to work on the new player experience. I know the new player experience in Star Wars has been given a lot of attention.
    Part of the problem is that many don't have a rich universe to drawn upon, such as we had with the Ultima games.
    Wide open PVP can work and can generate plenty of content - EVE Online is an example (and even cites UO as an inspiration). Of course EVE Online makes many PVPers uncomfortable because it takes PVP pretty far. You could lose the equivalent of your house, everything you have, your guild could even be looted dry and then have the guild name taken by somebody else. Even though the PVP can be more vicious there, it can also be more subtle, with some spending months and months working up to their "kill" of sorts. That does not appeal to a lot of people. Still, it is doing quite well, the parent company is hiring a lot of people, and they are breaking records as they go along.
    I'll go you one further - if you go back and look at UO2, much of what was in UO2 wound up in WOW in some form or another. There was a lot in UO2 that was not sandbox-like though - they had plans for the kind of massive raids that we see in WoW,. They were trying to mix the two I think. I also don't think it's a surprise that some of the WoW devs came out of UO.
    This is a very important point, probably the most important. Even if WoW were different, it would still be enormously successful - it's a very polished game these days, from the new player experience on up. If it were different, would they have 12 million subscriptions and a 4,000-strong development and community service team? Probably not, but you wouldn't know it - it would still be very polished.

    One major problem of UO, and this turned out to be a blessing of sorts, is that it wasn't supposed to last as long as it did. WoW was pretty polished out of the gate. Some games pull this off, some don't.

    I happen to think UO can be polished though. The new player experience they are working on is a part of that. Doing something with the quests is another part of that. Bringing the graphics/resolution into the modern age is another part of that.

    It's interesting - Garriott benefits from firmly controlling things again and he's watched all of the above play out. He's been the "victim" of several titles that were shipped quicker than they should have been. Origin under him, and even into the early days of the EA acquisition, had the view that game is only late until it ships, but if it's bad it will be bad forever. I think that's true 20 years ago, and I think it's even more true now.
     
  21. Derium of ls

    Derium of ls Slightly Crazed
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    look up the build cost for his new house, you'll see an eye popping amount.

    don't forget about space adventures also, He's gotta pull in a nice amount of money from that.

    As for Rasa, it was NOT a failure by any means. The game didn't fail from lack of support. They ousted him during his space flight. There are many many forums where people still talk about Rasa. Heck, I even have more than a few good friends who wish it was back.
     
  22. Derium of ls

    Derium of ls Slightly Crazed
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    I actually disagree with the lots and lots of content in WoW. there is only TWO things to do in WoW, Stab a player, or stab a monster. Yes there might be many different arenas to do that in, but it's all exactly the same.

    Kinda like if my house only had tea and lemon tea. Yet I had 1,000 different glasses to serve it to you. It's all the same flavor, just different way of delivering it.

    50+ instances? still an instance with bosses and fighting
    50+ raids? yup, still a raid against different bosses.

    So again, to me WoW only has two things a player can do and that's it.
     
  23. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    And all the "quests" in the single player game boil down to:

    - kill x number of y
    - get x number of z
    - find x number of z and click on them
    - kill y and get x number of z
    - escort a to b and kill x, y and z along the way

    The same five quests over and over and over again.
     
  24. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Well, I meant all the supporting things you can do. Now, I didn't play WoW until after it had been out a couple of years, so I may be wrong that they released with some of this stuff. But the kinds of things I was talking about would be...
    -Druid shape changing, I mean that blue saber cat is just cool.
    -The things a tinkerer can do, that dummy to attract attacks, etc.
    -Griffin flights were a stroke of genius, you got an impression of a huge world, had a chance to see it, and it was a limited fun thing to check out for the first while.
    -swimming under water, holding breath, etc., good stuff.
    -Taming, and taming some rare stuff like that ghost cat.
    -all the special moves, rogue stuff (smoke bombs, etc.), potions, tec., etc., etc.
    -Crafting and resource gathering.
    -The mystery orphans, and other strangeness.

    WoW has a lot of content. It's just that we mostly don't think about it because it's such a level grind.
     
  25. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Very good stuff. I wondered if they borrowed that from UO2, because I swear I remember somebody talking about having to swim out to some islands or swim underwater to do something. I want to say it was something having to do with the Gargoyles from one of the Ultima games.

    In WoW, The first time I had to swim down to the tip of the continent to get a flightpath, it was really "whoa" kind of moment for me. Either I did it earlier than I should have, or I wasn't properly equipped, because I remember nearly dying several times and it was tense because it took quite a while - felt like half an hour or more. Probably not that long, but felt like it. Seeing these huge, very deep areas underwater, and seeing all of these sea creatures that could kill me at the time, and knowing that much of the shoreline was populated with creatures that would kill me, was very cool. Cataclysm really pushed the underwater areas to a different level, with a lot more going on under the water in some areas.

    I also agree with the flightpaths being a unique and cool thing. You do see the world and get a sense of things. We used to get that when many of us had to run everywhere, but you lose that when you recall/gate everywhere.
     
  26. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    Hmmmm. What an interesting idea. Maybe if we had more gargoyle involvement in Britannia we might see a rudimentary flight system erected to get around the original map. Tram only, of course. ;-)
     
  27. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    I'm sure pestering gargoyle players to ride them will go over well.
     
  28. Viquire

    Viquire Crazed Zealot
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    I still find them useful to...

    when I, uh...

    OH, for...hmmm nope, dammit.

    Well, they look cool and if there were a reason to do lots of overland traveling without recall then it would make sense.
     
  29. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    I don't like WoW but I think the flight paths were a stroke of genius on someone's part. I don't know of anyone who played WoW in the early years for whom their first flight from one area to another wasn't one of those seminal moments in gaming.
     
  30. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    It really was a seminal moment.

    It was a great way to get players to work on leveling up even more, because they would see these areas they couldn't easily access at lower levels, and be left with the feeling that they wanted to level up so they could explore those areas. They aren't left with the feeling of "I have to level up", they are left with the feeling of "I can't wait to get to that section", and it worked.

    I don't know how you would do that in UO.
     
  31. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    when i first started playing (~97-98), was given my 1st WW (which I still have). I was extremely let down that it wasn't rideable. After that, it was just a kite, w/o a string.
     
  32. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    Can any MMO besides World of Warcraft be called a blockbuster? Many games have lasted longer than Tabula Rasa's 1 1/2 year run. For a MMO to only be open that long it is a failure.
     
  33. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    It was only a failure because they gave up on it. Tabula Rasa was a great game.