1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

RoT

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by Rykus, Nov 28, 2007.

  1. Rykus

    Rykus Guest

    FOREWORD: This is not a thread about anything other than the current RoT system. Please do not being personal attacks, hostility or anything that can be construed as an RoC violation into it. Mods, if this occurs, can you please remove the offending post instead of locking the thread?

    With that said...

    If people are so worked up about RoT, what should we do about it?

    Mas, this is your cue. Please be civil and don't yell at people about this, it really isn't necessary. What do you all suggest is a better system for Siege? I know we've been down this road before, but lets try it again. This time let's be calm and explain our point of view and come up with something we can submit to the dev team as a group. Where I work if you complain about something, the management damn well expects you to present a solution to the problem you are bringing to their attention. Can we maybe work together to brainstorm a solution that will please most of the people most of the time?? There is no such thing as perfect, but lets get closer to something we can all live with than what we have now. Whatcha think?
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I feel RoT only encourages AFK macroing...
    I feel RoT only discourages players on other shards from joining Siege Perilous.
    I feel RoT needs to be at least updated for the power-scroll era we now play.

    <font color="brown"> Please if anything just understand that RoT in it's current state doesn't make Siege hard, it just makes it not fun and leads to cheating. </font>
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I would like to see RoT Sped up to have a time to finish a full char 7x gm or 6x legendary in between 30-60 days, that time frame is not so short you get a ton of people complaining that its too fast but not too slow for the new people coming over.

    Masamusetek Solution Link Mas' Solution
     
  4. Rykus

    Rykus Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I feel RoT only encourages AFK macroing...
    I feel RoT only discourages players on other shards from joining Siege Perilous.
    I feel RoT needs to be at least updated for the power-scroll era we now play.

    <font color="brown"> Please if anything just understand that RoT in it's current state doesn't make Siege hard, it just makes it not fun and leads to cheating. </font>

    [/ QUOTE ]

    So, what is your suggestion to improve the skill gain system on Siege? We hear your complaints, how would you fix it?
     
  5. prostkr

    prostkr Guest

    Rot has nothing to do with scripting, if anything it stops it. The timers and gain limits per day are the main reasons....its 10 times easier to script a skill on a prodo shard. I can 6 x 120 a char on a prod shard in 7 days.

    leave the system the way it is, i preffer the guarenteed gain...and with the current caps, thats about all i have time for now....if anything reduce the timer between gains so i can finish my rot a bit quicker each day, and still have some time to farm or go donate my crap while pvping.


    but do not raise the total gains per day. The limets per day are what keep the folks off this shard we dont need.


    If you want this shard full, add in recall and remove rot....then our gold will be worth 50 cents a million, and you will have some scripters to complain about.
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    All skills gains are basically outdated unchanged since the advent of Power Scrolls.

    Max pts were GM 100.0 thus ROT kicks in 30 pts. ahead of the former max of 100.0 gm skilled.

    Now, many skills nearly have to go to 120.0

    ROT should not even begin till later on, like at 90.0 since now we strive to reach 120.0 as opposed to 100.0. At 90.0 there are still then 30. pts to max 120 to gain yet.

    The lower end 5 min. timer could be upped *reduced* to a 2- 3 min. timer.

    Then the higher 10 and 15 timers both become merely. . 5 or 10 mins. period.


    *15 mins. dragging the final gains..to slo motion utterly..is a waste of our time*
     
  7. Rykus

    Rykus Guest

    I completely agree, but I do feel RoT in it's current form really bites the big one. I like many of the suggestions brought forth in the past, but the goal of this thread is to either come up with a plan for change that we can submit to the dev team, or at least move closer to that end before someone breaks loose and gets this thread locked. [​IMG]

    Without seeing how it would work or knowing the full ramifications, I would like to see the current caps applied to individual skills rather than a daily cap overall. For instance:

    If my toon has the following skills:

    120 Fencing
    102 Necro
    120 SS
    74 Anatomy
    83 Healing
    93 Focus
    107 Tactics

    I would be able to gain:

    120 Fencing
    102 Necro (2.1 per day in this skill)
    120 SS
    74 Anatomy (3.6 per day in this skill)
    83 Healing (2.1 per day in this skill)
    93 Focus (2.1 per day in this skill)
    107 Tactics (2.1 per day in this skill)

    It may be too much, but I think it would help get more people here who wouldn't have otherwise played Siege.

    Your thoughts?
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    ROT should not even begin till later on, like at 90.0 since now we strive to reach 120.0 as opposed to 100.0. At 90.0 there are still then 30. pts to max 120 to gain yet.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    QFT
     
  9. Rykus

    Rykus Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    All skills gains are basically outdated unchanged since the advent of Power Scrolls.

    Max pts were GM 100.0 thus ROT kicks in 30 pts. ahead of the former max of 100.0 gm skilled.

    Now, many skills nearly have to go to 120.0

    ROT should not even begin till later on, like at 90.0 since now we strive to reach 120.0 as opposed to 100.0. At 90.0 there are still then 30. pts to max 120 to gain yet.

    The lower end 5 min. timer could be upped *reduced* to a 2- 3 min. timer.

    Then the higher 10 and 15 timers both become merely. . 5 or 10 mins. period.


    *15 mins. dragging the final gains..to slo motion utterly..is a waste of our time*

    [/ QUOTE ]

    QZ - Excellent points. I also give you 1 gold star for your brevity and concise presentation. [​IMG]

    I like this quite a bit really. Is 90 the new 70 where RoT is concerned? It seems logical and fair to me.
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Aye precisely.

    ROT 90.0 as the beginning of ROT, *since now we strive to get to 120.0 instead of the pre pwr scroll 100.0 gm and done. Replace the pre pwr scroll, skill gain out dated 70.0, with the 90.0 as the place now, to begin new version of the post powerscrolled UO Siege, ROT.

    Black Rain many others have mentioned 90.0 as the new starting point for ROT with the powerscroll era we have had for a very long time ...yet no UPDATE on skills gains since pwr scrolls. . even for GGS on reg. shards. Thus all skill gains are very outdated, still back in the era of 100.0 was max pts. that we could go to per skill. Been 120.0 for long time no changes in skills gains since pwr scrolls were created persay LONG OVERDUE for updating skills gains for not only Siege but all shards ROT and GGS... remain..way outdated.
     
  11. prostkr

    prostkr Guest

    This idea will never work, go look at most templates in play right now......very few things are run all the way to 120 anymore. You will make a bigger mess than we have now.
     
  12. Rykus

    Rykus Guest

    True, but many skills do go well over 100. Should 80 be the new 70?

    You mention that you'd like to see a reduction in time between RoT intervals but you don't specify anything. What specifically should the timers be set to?
     
  13. Rykus

    Rykus Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    It does not mean we will be heard, nor see changes that will be improvement over what we have now, but do we need to try.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I dunno, we tend to be quite loud when we have a reason to be.

    Remember that shard poll where Siege was represented in U Hall more than any other shard, despite being only 3% of the total UO population?

    I have no doubt that we can make enough noise to at least get somebody's attention. However with the future of the dev team in limbo and no announcements on the future of our favorite devs, we might just be SOL for a while until they hire more new people to replace those who aren't making the move. I just hope most of them decide to go. CatHat appears to be the first to make his decision public. Regardless, we should still try.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Lorddog

    Lorddog Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,116
    Likes Received:
    298
    I felt the alacrity scrolls helped out alot so perhaps adding them as harder to get loot like a paragon marty. ya add it to the paragon drop loot.

    and probably should change them to last for 10-20 gains instead of a time frame.

    Lorddog
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I felt the alacrity scrolls helped out alot so perhaps adding them as harder to get loot like a paragon marty. ya add it to the paragon drop loot.

    and probably should change them to last for 10-20 gains instead of a time frame.

    Lorddog

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Acrility scrolls are nice for those who could get them when they were available and if they added them in again for those once again who can kill the monsters to get the loot. The whole idea behind changing RoT is to make it so new players can come over to siege can be competitive a lot faster. not to make it so the experienced players and get more skills thrown on soul stones faster than a noobie can even gm 1 skill.
     
  16. Rykus

    Rykus Guest

    That's actually a great idea. The blackrock area and alacrity scrolls were tremendous. I'm sure many of you recall the fun had at the BR area when you had people trying to gain or mine BR and others trying to PK everyone hanging out there. That was probably the most fun and productive time I've spent in UO in the last year.

    So would RoT be endurable if alacrity scrolls were available? Maybe something like the virtue armor in the old dungeons? Something that will give players incentive to get out and do something...?
     
  17. I pretty much agree with Claudio.
    ROT needs to be changed some, maybe make it so you can get all your gains for the day in a shorter perios of time?
    I really really hate having to wait 5,10 or 15 minutes between gains.
     
  18. Lorddog

    Lorddog Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2004
    Messages:
    3,116
    Likes Received:
    298
    no yimmy, the experienced players would have them for sale on their venders to new player.
    maybe also adding them to a quest reward also.

    I also like the idea of a permanent blackrock training area. would need to be in a danger zone like before.

    Lorddog
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    so again new players would have to pay experienced players to just train in their skills dont know about your but that seems a bit rediculous.

    New Player Quotes; "Hi i just came over to siege and i spent $x with cybernickel so i could get gold in order to buy acrility scrolls from you to train skills with"

    "Hi new to siege here, can somone loan me 5 mil so i can buy the starting acrility scrolls to so i go get my own half way through training?"

    Looks really stupid when you read it doesnt it. The core of RoT needs to be changed not adding things to change the way people train. Speed up RoT incarments and the max you can get in a day. its that simple people.

    Why would you want to create a market for skill training? Why not just have normal skill training?
     
  20. Rykus

    Rykus Guest

    Hmm, I think you may be misunderstanding.

    What I suggested was that alacrity scrolls drop similar to the virtue rewards. That would mean that any critter killed in an old dungeon would have a chance of dropping a scroll. I seriously doubt an alacrity scroll would cost that much if they were still available. Back when they were easy to get, they were in the sub 100k range.

    I also see your point and agree that new people shouldn't have to pay others for the right to have a better experience gaining skills.

    All suggestions are good in a brainstorming session.

    Any other ideas?
     
  21. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I think changing it to per skill rather than per day would do the trick. That or just doubling the ammount. Or more.
     
  22. Guest

    Guest Guest

    As I have stated in the past, I would like to see some form of mentor/apprenticeship program instated.

    For example, should a trainee blacksmith want to raise their skills faster, he could seek out a legendary blacksmith, and enter into a contract with him/her.

    The apprentice would gain slightly faster, or gain more in a day.
    The mentor would gain something. Ideas waved around before included:
    - some form of runic kit.
    - a gain in one of the not-yet-implemented virtues.
    - a profession-related title.
    - fill in your own.

    The apprentice would need to be within line-of-sight of the mentor for this to work.
    The mentor could only take on a limited number of apprentices at a time.
    There would be penalties on either side if one of them terminated the contract.

    So, there you have it. Quicker gains, effectively a blue scroll for any skill, which makes players depend on each other a bit more, and takes a little of the pain out of RoT.

    What say ye?

    I say... "good night, Siege. Tis getting late!"


    P.S. If anyone sees Alizaren, please tell her to read her PMs. Thank you.
     
  23. Nerf-Herder

    Nerf-Herder Guest

    Add alacrity scrolls to the Tokuno Sleeping Dragon champ spawn. Instead of +5, 10, 15, 20 to max skill, you get an alacrity scroll for the skill for 5 minutes, 10 minutes, etc...

    That should produce enough scrolls to train newer characters without the scrolls becoming extremely expensive, while providing all of us with another (currently dead) area to fight over.

    As for ROT itself, I say KISS! Keep It Simple Stoopid!
    I truly believe that the more basic the change, the more likely it is to get put in by the devs. So, I would go with this:

    ROT begins at 70 and you get 3.6 gains per day with a five minute wait in between gains(It works like this now until 80). -- IT SHOULD REMAIN LIKE THIS ALL THE WAY TO 120!

    That seems to be a pretty simple change that would provide some much needed relief. Especially when it comes to training skills over 99.

    EDIT: Without alacrity scrolls, you could make a 6 x 120 character in about eleven weeks. Also, many templates will be "field-functional" in about a month. With alacrity scrolls, you can finish your toon MUCH faster. This would reward both casual players and power gamer types without eliminating a short "Welcome to Siege you NoOb" period. IMO, it's perfect... and perfectly simple.
     
  24. Rykus

    Rykus Guest

    I thing thats a superb idea myself, but I don't see us getting the dev tie to make it happen. As easy as I think it would be to make the change to just double the amount of RoT gains we can accrue in a day, I still have large doubts that we could get the resources necessary for that change as well.

    I have been proven wrong and surprised many times, but not enough to prevent my initial reaction from being some form of cynicism.
     
  25. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ok now heres the trick ive asked for this before and havent gotten one. lets have someone turn this into a poll that has the ability too. Propose Nerfs idea i think its probably the best one to be implemented and let the shard take a vote.

    I doubt they will add or change acrility scrolls but getting 3.7 per day is a hell of alot better than 2.1 over 80 and 5 minute intervals means no unnatended macroing necessary =}.

    So can we get an actuall poll going for this. They have been done for a lot of dumber things.
     
  26. Rykus

    Rykus Guest

    Ya, after we had enough ideas and people had a chance to discuss it enough, I was going to ask Skylark or Otto to make a poll for us. I feel it is still a bit too early just yet to do this though. I'd still like to hear from a few who have been very vocal about this in the past, like Mas and Black Rain.
     
  27. Guest

    Guest Guest

    oh i already got mas' post in the thread like 2 deep. Link straight to his thread about his 3 proposed changes to RoT and his opinions on them. It's great it's color coded and everything (slight poke at Mas, jk) but really he has been represented with his post guess were just waiting on black rain
     
  28. Spree

    Spree Babbling Loonie
    Governor Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,596
    Likes Received:
    13
    Put alacrity scrolls on the Ishnar champ spawns, 5, 10, 15, and 20 minutes scrolls let the 5 minute one pop on the lesser spawn like the +5 skill pop in the Fel champ spawns. Even a newbie can kill a rat man and get a scroll sorry Ikichet.
     
  29. Masumatek

    Masumatek Guest

    I've made a thread both here and on uhall not too long ago. Yimmy linked it. I will copy and paste it in case people don't like following links.


    In that post, I detail why ROT needs to be a MAJOR change, provide counter arguments to the arguments opposing a major ROT change, and suggested a solution, which, among other things, will decrease the time it takes to train from 3-4.5 months to complete a character IF you log in every day and get your max gains a day (could take much, much longer) to a ROT system which will allow for a completed character in 21-28 days. Also included in my suggestion is a delay-between-gains decrease to a universal 1 minute. And also, a suggestion that will help casual players.

    When I copy my post into this thread, I will make one post for the suggestion solution and a separate post containing the arguments.

    Also, as to my suggestion solution, I believe some of this can be altered, while some of it can not. If we do not add in the addition for casual players, that would be fine, though I think it's a good idea. If we have to sacrifice my suggested 1 minute delay between gains and instead decrease it to a 2 minute delay, that would be acceptable, but there really is no good reason to do this. 3 minutes should be the very maximum we should allow. A 1 minute delay between gains is the best solution.

    However, I believe that the suggested time for a person to be able to complete a character, which was given as 3-4 weeks, cannot be altered significantly. This is what it must remain at, this no significant change, at least not one that adds more time. The goal is not a minor or even moderate change to ROT. A minor change would be a complete waste of the devs time. A moderate change, while better than nothing, is not what we need and will not increase our population nearly enough, probably not even close to what a MAJOR change to ROT will.

    Also, just to note, there are probably better solutions if you consider only the solution, but in the end they would probably not be the best choices. Many of these better solutions would require a complete rework of the entire system/the skills of UO, and would take up much dev time to implement. Whereas a major change to ROT is working with an already existent system and would probably not take up much dev time at all. I could probably be done right this moment and patched in tonight....

    Also, just to note, I spent the least time working on the "reasons to change ROT" part of my post since frankly I was very tired of writing it and felt like it needed to get out right away. I only listed the main reasons and some minor ones. There are other reasons to change ROT besides what I mentioned, one being what Claudio has brought up-ROT in its current state encourages cheating.


    As for alac scrolls, I disagree with them. They were and are a bad idea. The skill gain system itself needs addressed, not some bandaid fix scrolls, and at that not really a fix at all, considering alacrity scrolls strongly favored fully trained characters to go get them, not untrained characters, and also only certain classes....certainly not people such as crafters. Heck, the scrolls don't even allow you to play the game. You log out and do that stupid time every 5, 10, or 15 minutes crap. And then when you get your max gains a day, you log out, or else your scroll expires. So stupid. The scrolls aren't going to increase our population nearly as much (if at all) as a major change to ROT would. In fact, we've already had the scrolls on Siege. *looks around* Hrmm, ghost shard for the win? Nope, they certainly didn't work.


    As far as polling goes, I disagree with this. First of all, it is not representing all who play on Siege since this is stratics and not everyone and in fact the majority probably do not post here. Second, it is not taking into consideration the opinions of people who have left Siege because of ROT, who play elsewhere because of ROT, and those who have left UO altogether and skipped Siege because of ROT. Third, while I believe we have the majority now in favor of a major change to ROT, many on Siege also still oppose a major change to ROT. And when the devs see the numbers, they might choose to do nothing, like they did with 7ae gear since the poll we got for unblessing/leaving 7ae gear was a split vote. Fourth, and I know most disagree, but I don't care....polling is crap. Just because the majority favors a change doesn't make it the right thing to do. Though I feel I am now a part of that majority, it doesn't matter. At one time I wasn't. I didn't approve of polls for these issues then and I don't now. ROT needs a major change regardless of what the majority of the population feels.


    That's my thoughts. The change suggested is a good one. We've "debated" this issue for years. It needs no more debate. It needs action. So my final thoughts are this: Bump my thread on uhall. We did it with those tokens for months; we can bump the ROT thread too. PM Jeremy. PM any EA person that accepts PMs. I've PMed Jeremy multiple times on this issue with no reply. Maybe if enough people PM them and continue to bump my ROT thread on uhall, they will reply and will give Siege what it desperately needs-a major change to the ROT system.
     
  30. Masumatek

    Masumatek Guest

    There are multiple solutions to the problem of ROT in its current state. Switching to the normal shard system is not what I’m suggesting. We need something completely new or to keep the basic ROT system with big changes to it. Some solutions may be better than others. However, some also would require a lot of time and resources to pursue.

    The change I will suggest here is keeping the basic ROT system, but increasing the max gains per day and decreasing the delay between gains. Though I’m not a dev, I feel this will be easy to do and consume little time and few resources, while still being a good solution.


    Just like with the ROT system we have now, skill gains 0-70 will be normal skill gaining. At 70 in a skill, ROT kicks in. What I’m suggesting is this:

    Gain Delay: Decrease the delay between gains to a delay of one minute for skill points 70-120. This is a universal delay, unlike now. It will not matter what amount of skill you have, so long as it is above 70. This delay though, like now, will remain per skill. So if I gained in swords, I would have to wait a minute to gain in swords again. But like now, I can still gain in multiple skills at once since the delay is per skill. Decreasing the delay to one minute will shorten the amount of time it takes to get your gains for the day and it will mean that while people are getting the gains they are actually playing instead of doing this: *get gain, play another shard for 10 minutes or do something else for 10 minutes, log back in and get gain*, which is what many people do right now. A two minute delay might be fine too, but it shouldn’t be more than that.


    Gain Cap: Max gains allowed per day for skills 70-120 is 10 full points (or 100 .1 gains) in all skills 70+ combined. This is a universal cap, unlike now. It will not matter what amount of skill you have, so long as it is above 70.

    What this change means is that a 7xGM character will take 21 days to complete. A 6x120 character will take 30 days to complete. This is a good compromise between overnight or “instant” characters and the slow snail training we have now that takes many and possibly many, many, many months, to complete. I personally feel the new system can be a bit faster than 21-30 days. But some people do have a point…we don’t want it “too fast.” This change should satisfy those people AND most importantly the people who do not come to Siege or leave Siege because training takes too long. 21-30 days is over 3x as fast as the 3-4.5 months (though still a good amount of time and definitely not “too fast”). Our population will increase greatly. Hopefully this will eventually lead to a stable, healthy population and a prosperous, much more fun Siege Perilous.


    Gain Storage: However, with the above suggestion, people who don’t log in every day (or don’t get their max gains in a day) can still take much longer to finish training, just as they can with the current system.

    Because of this, I suggest a skill gain “reservoir” addition. If you can’t log in every day or don’t get your max gains, you will have a storage of extra skill gaining points for when you are able to log in and play. Now, this should not stack indefinitely. I am NOT suggesting if someone logs out for ten days they all of a sudden can use 110 skill points to train on the eleventh day. What I am suggesting is a small storage capped at 5-10, 10 probably being better, additional skill points to use in training.

    Some examples of the skill storage addition I am suggesting:
    1) I log in today and get my gains, but don’t log in tomorrow. The day after tomorrow I will have 20 points (10 stored + a normal 10) with which to gain in my skills above 70.
    2) I log in today and get my gains. But now I don’t log in for another four days. The fifth day, I will still have only 20 points with which to gain in my skills above 70, since the storage is capped at 10 points.
    3) If I log in today and only gain 5 points in my skills above 70 and then have to log off, tomorrow I will have 15 points with which to gain (the 5 I didn’t finish gaining from today + the normal 10 for tomorrow).

    This skill storage addition will help shorten the training gap between power, normal, and casual gamers. It will encourage more casual gamers to come play and be willing to start fresh on Siege, people who might otherwise still be discouraged despite the increase in gains cap and shortening of the delay.

    Now, I think this would be a very, very good and important addition to the increase in skill gain cap per day and the decrease in the delay between skill gains. However, it is not essential to the change. The main part of this suggested solution, the increase in the skill gain cap and the decrease in the delay, should still be implemented regardless of whether or not this storage addition can be. However if it can be done and the devs are willing, I think this “reservoir” system should be an addition to the new ROT skill gaining system on Siege.


    That about covers it. This change to ROT to speed up skill training so that a player can make a complete character in 3-4 weeks will definitely add a lot of players to Siege’s population and may just be enough for, eventually, Siege to once again have a very healthy population.





    ROT in its current state is completely unnecessary on Siege, a veteran shard. This pointless, long, boring training keeps people who are interested in Siege from making a character. It makes many who do come quit over being stuck in training for so long, before ever having really experienced Siege. All arguments against changing ROT have been defeated. A major change to ROT such as the one suggested will increase our population greatly, something we desperately need on this slowly dieing shard. Without this change, we may not see Siege alive much longer. If ROT is changed however, we could very well see a prosperous Siege with the healthiest population of any shard in UO. A major change to skill training (the ROT system) is vital to the future of Siege Perilous.
     
  31. Masumatek

    Masumatek Guest

    <u>ROT (skill training) and SIEGE: the TRUTH and the CURE</u>

    As most if not all of you are aware, skill training on Siege takes a very long time, a completely unnecessary amount of time. The system of Rate Over Time (ROT) starts when you reach 70 in a skill. It imposes a ridiculous daily skill gain cap on you as well as a long delay between skill gains. It is an utterly worthless system in its current state and definitely one of the biggest problems on Siege.

    In this thread we will examine why skill training (the ROT system) on the Siege Perilous shard in its current state needs a major change. Strong reasons will be given to support this change, something vital for the prosperous future of Siege. The reasons given by those who oppose a major change to skill training will be analyzed and eliminated as logical arguments, leaving the opposition with nothing to do but admit that ROT in its current state indeed is horrible for Siege and must be changed. Finally, a change to skill training on Siege (ROT), making it take much less time to complete a character, will be suggested.

    This is going to be a long post, so I will color code it to help make it less confusing. In blue will be my arguments against ROT in its current state and why we should change it. In red will be my counter arguments to those given by people opposed to a major change to ROT. In black bold will be the suggested change to ROT. Some of the post will remain in the standard grey text, but it is not any less important than the colored text. The entire post is important and all if it should be read.



    <font color="blue">First, let it be clear just how long it takes to complete a fully trained character on Siege. A 7xGM (grand master skill level) character on Siege takes around 3 months to complete, fully trained. A 6x120 character on Siege takes around 4.5 months. This is a long, long time. That much should be obvious. But in reality does it only take 3 months for a 7xGM character or 4.5 for a 6x120 character? The above amounts of time assume the player logs in each and every day. They assume the player gets their maximum allowable gains each and every day. This length of time is for the power gamer, someone who logs in every day and plays long enough every day to get their max gains. For a normal player, that long, long time of training to complete a character on Siege suddenly becomes even longer. For a casual player, much much longer. It can quite easily take 6 months and in many cases much longer for someone to complete a character on Siege.

    This amount of time to finish training a character is ridiculous. It should be considered ridiculous if it were on any shard.but especially so on Siege Perilous. Let us consider a few things.

    Siege Perilous is a VET (veteran) shard. This means that almost every player on Siege is not coming to Siege new to UO; they are already vets to UO. They have already trained a character. Very likely, they have already trained many characters.

    What is the primary function of training? Its primary function is to acquaint players with the skills they will be using. One can argue that on a normal shard where most players start off new to UO, it makes sense for training to take a longer time (though not as long as training on Siege can take). This is because it can be argued that if someone spends a longer time training, they will be better acquainted with the skills they will be using, and that they simply shouldn’t be thrown into the world with trained skills they have no idea how to use.

    However, we are not talking about servers where most players start off. We are talking about Siege Perilous, where barely any new players start off. Siege Perilous is, as already mentioned, a veteran shard. Players of Siege have trained many characters before. They have played many characters before with many different skills. They know how to train the skills. They know what the skills, abilities, and spells do. They know how to use them. They do NOT need to be put through a ridiculous amount of training to be acquainted with the skills they will be using; they already have been.

    Now, do not be fooled. It is true that we could allow people on Siege to have a character in one day, but that is NOT in any way what I am suggesting. In this post, at the end, I will suggest what I believe and is believed by many to be a good compromise between an overnight character and one that takes an incredibly unnecessary amount of time to train. I will provide the exact details near the end of this post. For now it is sufficient to say that the amount of time I will be suggesting for a person to be able to fully train a character on Siege is around 3-4 weeks.


    Now that we’ve covered why we don’t “need” to suffer through long training on Siege, let’s move on to exactly why long training is hurting Siege and preventing it from prospering. Let’s discuss a current issue, perhaps the biggest issue on Siege, one that the ROT system has an affect in causing and/or preventing its cure.

    Population: All one has to do is look around. Siege’s population is extremely low. Why is population important? Well, this isn’t a single-player game. And it isn’t just any multi-player game either. It is an MMORPG. MMOG. Massively multiplayer online game. A strong, healthy population is perhaps the most important thing in most if not all mmo games, and certainly in Ultima Online. A healthy population is important because player interaction is important. Without it, why not just make it a single-player game? A healthy population is KEY to the fun level of Siege. This is low currently because the population is low. A healthy population is also essential to a strong community, and things that come of a strong community, such as player justice. Our community, though weirdly the best in UO, is but a shadow of its former self right now. Player justice is practically dead. A healthy population is perhaps even more important on Siege than normal shards, because much of what Siege Perilous is based on is risk and danger from other players, which decreases as population decreases. We could go on, but the point has been made: Siege’s population is very low. A healthy population is key to having fun in an MMO game, and especially in games like Siege Perilous.


    There are many reasons people avoid playing on Siege. We must look at these reasons and see if there’s anything we can do to get some of these people to play here and make sure that whatever we do would not be in violation of the spirit of Siege.

    Now, many of the causes of people not playing on Siege must remain. Changing it so that these people come to Siege will only hurt Siege, even if its population increases. To name an obvious one: insurance. Many people don’t come to Siege because there isn’t full insurance. To name another: no trammel. Many people don’t come to Siege because there is no trammel. This is of NO consequence. To change these things…to add insurance/trammel/etc….will only hurt Siege, no matter how many people we gain from the change. Some people suggest a 2nd character on Siege will get them to play here. That too will hurt Siege. We can go on and on, but suffice to say that some things we just can’t change on Siege because it would be in violation of the spirit of Siege and no matter how many players we gained, it would be a bad change.

    However, there are some aspects of Siege holding people back that we can change without violating the spirit of Siege. There are some things that are no more an essential part of Siege than having red apples are instead of green apples. ROT is one of these things. The amount of time it takes to train a character CAN be changed without hurting Siege.


    So we’ve determined we don’t “need” ROT. We’ve determined it’s something that can be changed without hurting Siege. But why else should we change it?

    Is ROT actually keeping the population of Siege low?

    The answer is undeniably yes; ROT in its current state is absolutely keeping our population low. We can determine this in a few different ways. For one, we can think about it logically. If we do, we can conclude that obviously it makes sense that people would prefer to finish a character in a shorter amount of time than have to suffer through 3-6+ months of boring, pointless training. So the longer a person has to train a character on Siege, the less likely they are to come play it.

    However, we have something more than just thinking about it. Time and time again we are told by many people that slow training is a big (or for some the biggest) reason they do not come to Siege. These people ARE interested in Siege. They aren’t the people that say “oh no insurance=me not coming.” These people are the ones interested in playing Siege, the ones who like the idea of Siege, not the ones who don’t come because it’s not trammel land. But yet, these people interested in playing Siege for the great, unique, dangerous, risky place it is supposed to be with a better economy, more importance of crafters, a better community, and much more, do NOT come to Siege because one aspect of Siege is such a worthless pain that it keeps them away. What is it? ROT: Slow, boring, pointless training.

    Though of course there are some who do come to Siege despite ROT. They come thinking they’ll still have fun on Siege. And a few do. But many find out they are wrong. Two major reasons a lot of new players to Siege (players who did start a character) give for leaving are ROT and a low population. BOTH of these can be fixed with a major change to ROT. If there is such a change, we will see many people coming to Siege (and staying) who otherwise would not come and do not stay because of ROT. And when this happens….when we get a lot of these people coming to Siege because skill training is faster…..then we will also get many others; the ones who don’t come to Siege because of a low population right now will come since its population will have greatly increased.

    Many people consider Siege the “last stop” shard. It is not just for people who love UO but want something better. But it is also for people fed up with UO and about to quit. Instead of quitting, they have the option to come to Siege, a whole different game from the one they know from playing on normal shards. And yet, so many of these players do not come to Siege for their last stop. They just quit. Fed up with UO, they see no point in waiting 5 months through training to see if they might like Siege. The few that do come…many of them also quit because of slow training, never having actually experienced Seige since they were stuck in training the whole time. I know there’s many people interested in Siege who stay on their normal shard because of ROT. But I question just how many people quitting UO would be on Siege right now if it weren’t for ROT. I question if Siege would perhaps the healthiest population of any UO shard right now if it weren’t for our slow, pointless training.


    There are a few other reasons for changing ROT:
    Purchasing accounts: A further reason for a major ROT change is that skill training can already be completely avoided by those who purchase accounts. This undermines any reason the opposition can give for keeping skill training the way it is, when it can be completely avoided by purchasing the account of someone who has already done it for you.

    Soulstones: A possible future soulstone nerf is another reason for a ROT change. The only good argument against nerfing soulstones is that skill training on Siege right now takes far too long and soulstones allow us to keep skills instead of spending a long time dropping, retraining, and repeating whenever we want to move on to a new template. However, with skill training sped up, this reason will no longer exist…and we can look to a future soulstone nerf on Siege.


    ROT in its current state is completely unnecessary on Siege, a veteran shard. This pointless, long, boring training keeps people who are interested in Siege from making a character. It makes many who do come quit over being stuck in training for so long, before ever having really experienced Siege. A major change to ROT will increase our population greatly, something we desperately need on this slowly dieing shard. Without this change, we may not see Siege alive much longer. If ROT is changed however, we could very well see a prosperous Siege with the healthiest population of any shard in UO. A major change to skill training on Siege (the ROT system) is vital to the future of Siege Perilous.</font>




    <font color="red">Let’s now look at the arguments in opposition to a major change to ROT. What seems to be the two most cited reasons given by people who oppose a major change to ROT are the following:
    1) They think it is hard.
    2) They think it keeps away the undesirables that hurt our shard.

    Both reasons are flawed.

    1) They think ROT is hard.

    People who say such things, that ROT is hard/difficult…are not understanding what those words really mean. They think because training on Siege takes a long time to complete, that it is hard. They think this is good because Siege is supposed to be the “hard shard.” They think because people have to sit through and time their skill gains every day for 3-5 months or because a casual player may take 6 months or even more to finish training on Siege, that training must be hard.

    They are wrong. Training on Siege is not anymore hard than making a million bandaids by cutting wool, getting yarn, and turning it into cloth, or sitting through hours upon hours of turning in bolts and gm made bows at a fletcher quester. It is easy. Very easy. It just takes a long time and is boring.

    I can sit in my house and make clothes all day to gain in tailoring. I can go to the graveyard and sit by the fence and shoot the weak bone guys to gain tactics. I can put an LRC suit on and cast on myself all day. To use some real life examples: I can take me two hours to do a stack of dirty dishes. It can take me who knows how long to watch the complete, boring series of Star Trek: DS9. These are just a few examples. Is any of it hard? Absolutely not.

    Do I have to complete some difficult quest, challenge some evil tough monsters, explore some underwater cave filled with water pixies or whatever and find some magical blah item….to train? NO. Might some of that be hard? Possibly, but I don’t have to do any such thing. I just sit down and repeat the same thing over and over and over and over again.

    At 70 skill I have to get a timer and time my gains every 5 minutes day after day after day. Then the time delay increases the higher I gain. Is this hard? Is it a CHALLENGE? NO. Is it a pain in the arse? You betcha.

    Boring. Grind. Tedious. Long. Pain in the arse. Pointless. Etc. These are words to describe training on Siege. Where does hard/difficult/challenging fit in? No where. People are confusing these words with long and boring. They are the not the same. Not at all. Training is not hard. It is long and boring. People need to stop mixing the words up.

    If you care so much about training being hard…if you honestly think people should have to be really challenged before finishing their character, then there are options. You can ask the devs for instance to allow people to more easily train by PvMing ACTUAL monsters, the more challenging ones, and through PvP. But this would require a whole rework of almost every skill…because in order for this to happen, people in training (people with low skill level) must be able to compete with people with fully trained skills.

    You can ask the devs to add in quests and force people to explore for items and fight challenging monsters, etc…to train. Make it more challenging. Make it more interesting. Is this the right way to go? Maybe, maybe not…but it will add some degree of challenge and make training a bit interesting.

    Those are options to make training “harder” if it’s that important to you.

    LONG AND BORING THOUGH……THAT DOES NOT MAKE TRAINING HARD. I hope you finally understand that.


    2) They think ROT keeps away the “undesirable trouble makers,” the arses that we don’t want on our shard.

    This is a very easy one to argue against. All you have to do is look around.

    Does it look like our shard is filled with angels? No. Rezkilling/dry looting/crap talking/griefing is at an all time high. Honor is practically gone. Player justice is almost completely dead. Scammers/cheaters/exploiters are unchallenged and accepted into the community. And there is a far greater percentage of such people than there has been in the past. Undesirables roam freely throughout the land. The good people leave, and the few who do replace them, are often poor quality players.


    But does it even make any sense for ROT in its current form to keep away the trouble makers (if you don’t want to take the time to open your eyes and see just how many we actually have)?
    NO….it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

    Let’s think about it. The only way to arrive at the conclusion that ROT keeps away undesirables is by making a number of assumptions. People who argue this assume the following: Gamers who sit through ROT for 3-6+ months are the patient gamers. Older gamers are more patient than younger gamers. Older gamers are more mature than younger gamers. Their conclusion is that ROT “weeds out” the immature, younger games and only allow for mature, older gamers, or at least a majority of mature, older gamers.

    Wooha…that’s a lot of assumptions right there. There are very many older gamers that are very immature and/or impatient just as there are a lot of younger gamers who are very mature and/or patient. Furthermore, the assumption that people who sit through 3-6+ months of training means they the patient ones isn’t necessarily true. As an example, I myself am rather impatient in many ways and yet I sat through over six months of training. You have to consider all this. You can’t make the assumptions people opposing a major change to ROT do. But, so long as we’re on the topic of assumptions, you might find the following paragraph interesting.

    Since we’re making assumptions, we can assume the following: Mature, older gamers have families. Mature, older gamers work more. Mature, older gamers have less time on their hands. Younger, immature gamers don’t have wives and children. Younger, immature gamers don’t work as much or don’t work at all. Younger, immature gamers have more time on their hands. So it can be concluded that ROT is not detracting younger, immature players from playing on Siege, and in fact is detracting older, mature gamers from playing on Siege since older, mature gamers have less time on their hands and skill training on Siege takes a long time to complete. How do you like that for assumptions? It goes both ways. And personally, I think the assumptions in this paragraph have more truth to them than the assumptions people who oppose a change to ROT make.

    So…not only can you eliminate the “long training keeps away undesirables” argument simply by opening your eyes and looking at just how many undesirables we have, but thinking about it you can also conclude that we might have perhaps even the opposite of “long training keeping away undesirables” and long training is keeping away the quality people we want while leaving Siege open to the people we don’t.



    There are also some other, less-cited reasons people give for opposing a major change to ROT. As one of my goals in this post is to eliminate all resistance the opposition gives, I will also argue against these less-cited reasons, even though many of them are so ridiculous they don’t need anyone to say much against them.


    -----Some say ROT allows new players to Siege time to adjust to the new ruleset and various differences on Siege, etc…”time to adjust.” Ok….so 3-4 weeks isn’t enough time to adjust? 30 days? Most people don’t even need that amount of time to adjust to new changes...in game or irl. The only thing I need over 30 days to adjust to is changes in the television schedule for Star Trek.

    New players to Siege, almost all of them, have at least some idea of what they’re getting into. With the exception of a rare few people that may randomly click Siege in the list, every new player to Siege is going to be becoming here for a reason….because it IS different. They aren’t just suddenly thrown into a land without any idea. They know there’s not full insurance on Siege, fel ruleset, etc…And the few that don’t? Well again, why shouldn’t a month be enough time to adjust? And why 3-6 months (the current time to train)? Why not two years? Who decided 3-6 months was needed to “adjust” to the Siege ruleset? Furthermore, who are we to tell new players to Siege how much time they need to adjust? If someone feels they need 3 months to adjust (really…how many people feel that way…), they can put artificial limits on their skill gaining themselves and make that decision for themselves only. We need not punish everyone coming to Siege because a rare few people may need a billion months to adjust to the change.

    I’ve spoken with many NEW (a guild for new players on Siege) and just new players in general and they certainly don’t feel they need so many months to adjust. They want to play the game. Logging in just to get skill gains isn’t playing the game. Many people just do that. Being unable to compete for 3-6+ months…depending on how often/long you play…that’s not truly playing the game, since you can’t compete. Many of these new players get bored in training and leave, never having experienced what Siege really is because they spent all their time in training.

    These players do NOT have to relearn how to use the skills again. Training…what is its primary purpose? To get you accustomed to the skill you’re training. The people coming to Siege are VETS to the game. They already know what skills do what. Many are also PvPers. They want to get into the action and compete. They don’t want to have to wait months just to play the game. So they don’t come to Siege or don’t stay on Siege long because they don’t feel they should have to be put through 3-6 months of training (which they’ve already done…likely many, many times) just to get into the game.


    -----Some people oppose a major ROT change because they think ROT is good for the “casual player.” It may seem so on the surface….This is because people are comparing ROT to trammel shard training, where some of the skills take many resources and a long time to train, whereas ROT allows them to get guaranteed gains with few resources.

    However, though ROT may seem to cater to the casual player on the surface, in reality the exact opposite is true. ROT hurts the casual player. A casual player may not have time to get their max gains a day. A casual player isn’t going to be logging in every day. The casual player can be stuck in training far longer than other players because they aren’t playing as much. It can take 6 months and in many cases much longer for the “casual player” to finish training.

    No, ROT is for the power gamers. It is good (well not really good…just less bad) for the people that log on and time their gains through the delays, getting their max gains a day. It is for the people that log on every day. And for those that want to avoid it, they can purchase accounts, which is something most casual players do not do. ROT certainly does NOT cater to the casual player. And people are in error in thinking it does simply by comparing its simpler, less resources training to a few skills on trammel shards.

    Furthermore, people who cite this reason as one against a ROT change aren’t being specific as they should. There is absolutely no reason for them to oppose for instance a shortening of gain delay and an increase in the allowed gains per day. Their argument would have to be for opposing such things as a removal of ROT and reintroduction of trammel shard skill training system. Certainly NOT opposing a change to ROT to make it faster. Yet they lump it all into one and say “a ROT change is not good for the casual player,” which is completely wrong.


    -----Another reason people give for opposing a major ROT change is that it “allows people time to get out and meet people” and therefore “builds community.” This argument is also flawed. Just how many people are going to finish getting their max gains per day and then say “I think I’ll go out and meet people now.” No, they go back to play their home shard, or do something else. Many, many, if not most new players to Siege are not getting out and meeting people. They are logging in to get their delay-timed gains, and logging back out. And once they get their max gains for the day, they simply log out since they aren’t anywhere near being able to compete…they still have many months to go. If you don’t believe me, the GM of NEW, our guild for new players, will tell you just this. And sometime during that training, many of them will leave, bored out of their minds with a useless training system and unable to compete. This certainly isn’t “building community.” Also, why on Sosaria would new players need 3-6+ months to “meet” people and become a part of the community? It’s kind of silly to suggest such a thing…..


    -----A further reason given for suffering through ROT is “proving you are committed to Siege.” This is one of the most ridiculous reasons yet. Why should they have to prove anything to us? Is not coming here to try it out demonstrating their interest? And if they stay, chances are they’re going drop their house on their home shard to build one on Siege. Now THAT is a HUGE commitment. And again, who decided 3-6 months shows their “commitment.” Why not force them to train for two years? What’s your reasoning for the current amount of time? A few weeks in training, unable to compete and fully play the game, should be more than enough for you “commitment” freaks.


    -----Some even go so far as to claim ROT in its current state is basically “a large part of the heart of Siege.” They make the claim that ROT is what separates us from normal, trammel shards. They say that without ROT, we are just one step closer to becoming a “carebear server” and will continue on that path. This argument is also bogus. The very idea that someone can make the claim that long, boring training is what separates Siege from trammel shards makes me sad for Siege, for the people who say such a thing, despite playing on Siege, really have no idea what Siege is about. Siege was NEVER meant to be about pointless training. Training has nothing to do with what Siege is about. Added risk? Yes. Increased danger from other players? Yes. More required player interaction? Yes. More reliance on crafters (one character per account)? Yes. And MUCH more. But NEVER about training. Training is NOT in ANY way what makes Siege Siege. Changing ROT will NOT in ANY way be in violation of the spirit of Siege.


    -----Really, it sounds to me like many are just making excuses for ROT because they had to go through it and feel others should have to too. Which brings us to our final reason people give for keeping ROT the way it is. Selfishness. Some people are even brave enough to say it out loud. They think that because they had to suffer through 3-6+ months of boredom training their skills, everyone else who comes to Siege should have to suffer as well. This reason is complete garbage. And I have a feeling many people citing other reasons really feel this way too, at least in part…because they had to suffer through it, so the next guy should too. Well they should be ignored, because such selfishness is hurting Siege.


    -----One last thing: Some people suggest a “minor” change to ROT. Make it take a few weeks less they say. I’d like to point out that this would be a futile change. People who leave Siege or don’t come to Siege because of such long training times are NOT going to be satisfied with “ok....how about 15 weeks instead of 18?” It would be pointless for ROT to be changed only a little. Siege is beyond minor changes and tweaks. We need the big ones….the ones that count…..the ones that will help, will accomplish something. We can see a large increase in population with a major change to ROT. We will not see this with a little tweak.


    That covers the arguments against a major change to skill training on Siege. The most cited reasons people give for opposing a major ROT change have been defeated. The less cited reasons people give for opposing a major ROT change have been defeated. Many of them are so ridiculously silly I don’t know why anyone bothers mentioning them in the first place. But there it is. They are complete nonsense or at the most, weak. As you can see, the opposition’s arguments don’t even come close to comparing to those for why ROT in its current state is no good and why we should change it. Skill training on Siege needs a major change and there is no good reason why we shouldn’t do it.</font>
     
  32. Viaria

    Viaria Guest

    I dont think 6x or 7x gm skills in 30-60 days would be very challenging. We'd have grand masters abound in no time. Newbs would be flaunting would-be mighty warriors before comming to experience the ways of seige. Grand master crafters would have vendors standing around full...never selling much. My account is 10 months old. I finally have GM or better anatomy, healing, lumberjacking, resisting spells, swordsmanship and tactics. That was fast enough for me and in the time I needed to gain all that I've watched, listened and learned a lot. Had I become the warrior I have yet to show to seige in 60 days I'd probably be attempting some foolish actions for not having known so much as I've discovered in 10 months. Besides...I had a good amount of time to figure out for which to strive next after getting my skills to where I almost wanted (oh, yes, I'll be looking to buy a resist 120 scroll). The ROT gain system is perfect just as it is.
     
  33. Masumatek

    Masumatek Guest

    See my above post on the whole "rot=challenge" issue and all other such talk.

    Btw, you are only considering yourself. 1) Most people don't need 10 months to "learn the ways of Siege." 2) Most people don't want to be forced through 10 months of training. 3) You can choose for YOURSELF to take 10 months training, even if a system exists with which you can gain in one month. 4) Siege's population is extremely low. Why exactly did you "learn the ways of Siege" again if there's no one to play with? Don't you want a healthy population? Well, guess what, a major change to ROT will greatly increase our population and perhaps, eventually, Siege will have one of the if not the healthiest populations of all shards.
     
  34. Viaria

    Viaria Guest

    I prefer a lower population than other shards. Consider this: all things must be..including stupidity (if everyone were smart we would not know what smart was). For stupidity to survive there must be a lot of it or the dumbness would just die out. The Seige system that many shun ensures the population is mostly of smart people. I have thus far thoroughly enjoyed me experiences here even while being pummeled to ooze by those mightier or stealthier than I. A larger population may have some desirable qualities. However with those qualities will come those that name their characters "Spank Bunny" or "Hot Wad" and bring the mentalities to match. ...And think of a warrior. Does a fighter actually master the sword in two months? Would a tailor truely make top notch shoes after only 30 days of beginning a career in crafting? Yes I spoke of myself and my desires. From what perspective is your reply? One who has played a long time and forgotten how fascinating being new is?
     
  35. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Damnit Rykus see you just had to go and tell mas he hadnt posted yet and WAMMO! =P
     
  36. Masumatek

    Masumatek Guest

    Well maybe as you have been training for 10 months and not competing and actually playing, you haven't realized something...that most people on Siege aren't this "quality, smart" type you seek and that quality of players and honor on Siege, as well as the community and player justice, has declined with a loss of population, not increased. You may not know this since you haven't played here as long as I, but it is the truth.

    This is an MMO Viaria. That stands for Massively Multiplayer Online game. A healthy population is ESSENTIAL, as I mention if you would please read my post, to a good, fun mmo game. And the pointless, boring, tedious, annoying, completely unfun and stupid grind that the ROT training system is, does NOT keep away the "bad guys" and make Siege this oh so good people shard, as again, you would find out if you would read my post (the red/blue one).
     
  37. Masumatek

    Masumatek Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Damnit Rykus see you just had to go and tell mas he hadnt posted yet and WAMMO! =P

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Heh, I'd probably have posted anyway.


    "It's great it's color coded and everything (slight poke at Mas, jk)"

    Yah....blue=good, red=evil:).
     
  38. Viaria

    Viaria Guest

    This is all interesting. I would suppose the only way to learn if changing ROT will increase population is to do it. You still remain here yourself despite the current ROT system. More such as yourself would be desirable. Still...trouncing some fools for being foolish may be fun. Yes, maybe gilding the gates to Seige would make this shard more interesting. Once we flood the land with the fools, however, there will be no going back.
     
  39. Lord_Puffy

    Lord_Puffy Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    3,009
    Likes Received:
    2
    <blockquote><hr>

    FOREWORD: This is not a thread about anything other than the current RoT system. Please do not being personal attacks, hostility or anything that can be construed as an RoC violation into it. Mods, if this occurs, can you please remove the offending post instead of locking the thread?

    With that said...

    If people are so worked up about RoT, what should we do about it?

    Mas, this is your cue. Please be civil and don't yell at people about this, it really isn't necessary. What do you all suggest is a better system for Siege? I know we've been down this road before, but lets try it again. This time let's be calm and explain our point of view and come up with something we can submit to the dev team as a group. Where I work if you complain about something, the management damn well expects you to present a solution to the problem you are bringing to their attention. Can we maybe work together to brainstorm a solution that will please most of the people most of the time?? There is no such thing as perfect, but lets get closer to something we can all live with than what we have now. Whatcha think?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    All im goign to say is careful what u wish for, next thing u know there will be no rot and siege will be GG?.... jsut my 2 mil :p
     
  40. AntiOTF

    AntiOTF Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    FOREWORD: This is not a thread about anything other than the current RoT system. Please do not being personal attacks, hostility or anything that can be construed as an RoC violation into it. Mods, if this occurs, can you please remove the offending post instead of locking the thread?

    With that said...

    If people are so worked up about RoT, what should we do about it?

    Mas, this is your cue. Please be civil and don't yell at people about this, it really isn't necessary. What do you all suggest is a better system for Siege? I know we've been down this road before, but lets try it again. This time let's be calm and explain our point of view and come up with something we can submit to the dev team as a group. Where I work if you complain about something, the management damn well expects you to present a solution to the problem you are bringing to their attention. Can we maybe work together to brainstorm a solution that will please most of the people most of the time?? There is no such thing as perfect, but lets get closer to something we can all live with than what we have now. Whatcha think?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I think the dev's and gm's have already solved the problem by not enforcing any penalties about afk macroing. They know it goes on, but it's a lot easier to allow this, than to recode the game for one tiny shard's benefit. So they turn the other cheek. Problem fixed.

    I know this first hand. I was "discovered" by a gm after "accidentally" falling asleep at the keyboard, and he done nothing to me whatsoever, other than let me know he had seen me.
     
  41. Viaria

    Viaria Guest

    I like most of this. I'd suggest slightly different modifications: Gain delay of 5 minutes for all skill levels; a gain cap of 8 points per day and a gain reservoir cap of 5.
     
  42. Rykus

    Rykus Guest

    Sunzabeeches Mas, do you have the Cliff Notes for that???

    I'm gonna read that tomorrow and get back to you. I took a little too much cold medicine and am feeling a bit numb right now.. heh

    Thanks for your input in advance.

    [​IMG]
     
  43. Viaria

    Viaria Guest

    I don't think I would want to afk macro a lot of things. Lumberjacking, for instance; I'd use up an axe before i made a 15 minute rot gain. My poor sister the tailor/smith would run out of supplies before obtaining a gain at her forge or knitting table.
     
  44. Rykus

    Rykus Guest

    Huh?

    Using RoT you only have to attempt to gain once per interval. You don't work the whole time during the 15 minutes.
     
  45. Guest

    Guest Guest

    My opinions:

    RoT should begin at 80, timers and limits all bumped up accordingly.

    I would like to see something similar to the blackrock event, but occurring in the original Britannian Dungeons (Wrong, Hythloth, Destard, Shame, Covetous, Despise, Deceit).

    Each day, some spirit or other haunts one of these dungeons, and while you are in there, you get gain boosts like you did in the blackrock areas. What might be even better, the cap on the gain bonus is relative to the depth you go in the dungeon. Level 1 gets you a .2 max, level 2 a .3 and so on.
     
  46. AntiOTF

    AntiOTF Guest

    I say the hell with GGS and ROT, bring back power hour!
     
  47. Guest

    Guest Guest

    No power hour!
     
  48. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <font color="brown"> There was a time, Pre-AoS where there was a very well know "bug" EA/OSI put on Siege which let people by-pass the wait between RoT gains..

    It was that same era that Siege had it biggest and healthiest population.
    </font>

    Proof is in the pudding.
     
  49. Viaria

    Viaria Guest

    Well then if you're hanginging around waiting for an interval to pass you're not afk ar ya?
     
  50. Rykus

    Rykus Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Well then if you're hanginging around waiting for an interval to pass you're not afk ar ya?

    [/ QUOTE ]

    One of us is seriously misunderstanding the other. You said you would wear out your hatchet or whatever between RoT gains. There's no reason to because you would only have to use it ONE TIME every 15 minutes to get a gain. Why would you want to continue trying for a gain after you got one and you know another one won't happen for another 15 minutes?