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Royal Guard Concept

Discussion in 'UO Atlantic' started by EM_Bennu, Oct 4, 2010.

  1. EM_Bennu

    EM_Bennu UO Event Moderator
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    Hello everyone.

    Just wanted to touch base with you and see what the general perception on Atlantic is involving the "Royal Guard" concept?

    Lake Superior, Great Lakes and several other shards have very successful Royal Guard programs. These include ranks and recognition (Not item rewards!!!!) earned through participation and role playing in Royal Guard Themed events.

    This isn't a promise, simply testing the waters as it were.

    Any comments, feedback on this topic as always welcomed.

    EM Bennu
    [email protected]
     
  2. I am biased but would prefer something more evil or neutral themed.

    When Eris/Nestor were around there was a BRIEF discussion of having an Atlantic Mage Council. AMT is more of an open concept in my opinion as it allows for evil Mage based characters to take part with the ever easily adaptable theme of knowledge + power.

    The Royal Guard is loyal to Queen Dawn and as such keeps the bad guys out.
     
  3. EM_Bennu

    EM_Bennu UO Event Moderator
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    I was pretty sure this was going to come up, I was not expecting so quickly though! :D

    One of the possibilities (again, nothing promised we are just talking here) is two of the same concept with opposing view points. Order/Chaos, Good/Evil, Dark/Light etc.

    Structurally they would be the same thing, the framework and paperwork would be the same. But obviously the In Character stuff would be totally different.

    The two main problems I see in creating both a good and evil version is activity, If I advertise an event for the "Royal Britannian Guard" Ill get 100 people showing up, I am not sure the same could be said for "Bennu's Evil Squad of Evil", or am I wrong here? Traditionally people want to be the hero, or the anti-hero, the villain is rarely popular?

    I am not against the idea at all, in fact it is one of the main concepts I am kicking around in my head, a Light/Dark type thing, but honestly I am going to have to be convinced that there is a desire and an honest interest in such a long term project.

    The other problem I see for fostering an 'evil side' is long term viability. It is my experience that villains are much harder to maintain in the long term than heroes. To maintain a continuity of an 'evil side' it would have to maintain the same structure and leadership all the while allowing the players involved to feel like the hero/villain themselves.

    Heroes can sit back when nothing is going on and say "Hey, its peace time, hurray for us!" However evil always have to have something going on, something up there sleeves. Which makes the concept a bit harder.

    Just points to think on, I am not even certain there is an interest in the 'good side' yet, much less the bad. I am just testing the waters as it were.
     
  4. Halister Marner

    Halister Marner Lore Master
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    Having an umbrella theme that links together players from all different play styles and guilds is definitely a benefit. It gives everyone, regardless of affiliation a chance to play the hero.

    That being said, I think the overall concept of the "Royal Guard" is a good one, allowing players to gain recognition and giving them reason to actually participate rather than just kill things for event items.

    However, I personally would like to see something different on Atlantic, since I like for us to be unique. The benefits of this are many in my opinion, tons of shards have the RBG theme, but when you see an item, story, or player with an RBG tag, you have no idea which shard it's from, it sort of takes away the notion that each shard of the gem of immortality has its own progression and story.

    Something different will also allow Bennu to flex some creative muscle and tailor something cool to Atlantic, rather than rehashing a theme that's been done for the past few years.

    I'm sure there's even more interesting concepts, but one of my first thoughts was using the original name, The Order of the Silver Serpent. For some reason I always pictured knights of the Order jumping on the backs of ancient wyrms while Britannian Guards handed out parking tickets.

    In the long run though, regardless of theme, as long as it allows the entirety of the Atlantic shard to participate equally and promotes both immersion and fun, then I'm all for it.
     
  5. EM_Bennu

    EM_Bennu UO Event Moderator
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  6. Halister Marner

    Halister Marner Lore Master
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    I like. Surviving The Abyss is a great feat in itself. Besides, sparring with the Slasher after breakfast is much better than playing piggy back with an ancient wyrm. ;)
     
  7. Yeah I threw it out there fast as I find very few people do things for the bad guys.

    It is a strain I understand as generally evil characters all have their own agendas so finding a purpose that can bring them together for an extended period of time without bickering and death isn't easy.

    Still though, I hope some others will post there interest so us evil-doers can get some love for once.

    In regards to the Knights of the Crux Ansata, I do like it... but then again, Beleth lives in the Abyss and do I really need a band of heroes knocking on my door every 5 minutes? Hehe
     
  8. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    i'm totally down for all of this.
    I only rp an evil guy but i'll weasel my way into the fun any way i can.
     
  9. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    There is already a player guild on Atlantic known as "The Royal Britannian Guard" of which I am the current leader until the wayward Stuffa returns some day... I certainly do not mind you using the name - but would hate to see any confusion over it. Either way, we will be there to support you on it.

    If there is any way that I can assist with this, please do not hesitate to ask.
     
  10. I hear ya Tazar but you need to realize that guild was made after the Dev's/EM's established RBG for the Lord British exit storyline.

    The Royal Britannia Guard is a group, now I suppose, under the control of Queen Dawn from a game lore perspective.
     
  11. EM_Bennu

    EM_Bennu UO Event Moderator
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    There has been a bit of an issue with that in the past on other servers.

    For that reason alone there is enough reason to go in a more unique direction with this project.

    I really like the Knights of the Crux Ansata concept. It is relevant in current fiction, it is low key enough to have not TOO much already known about it which grants the players and myself quite a lot of freedom with the Roleplaying and fiction involved..

    It also helps that I now control both guild names, "Knights of the Crux Ansata" and "The Knights of the Crux Ansata" so we will not run into any issues on that front as has been a problem elsewhere.

    Good/Light folks, I need to hear from you on details on the framework you would like to see.

    -----

    Evil/Dark folks, I need to hear from you too, things you would like to see. Mostly on a structure and framework as well as an In Character 'reason for existing'.

    -----

    This would be long term, very long term, not a story arc or short string of events. So both groups would have to have a solid and basic foundation and reason for being and staying around on a fiction level.
     
  12. Dryzzid of Atlantic

    Dryzzid of Atlantic Journeyman
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    The RBG has existed for a long time... obviously I use it in my RP for Dryzzid quite extensively. As much as I would love to see organized ranks for him to ascend, I agree that a more unique approach would be the better option. (Besides, Dryzzid has already turned down seven offers of promotion!)

    The Knights you suggested kind of gives me the feel of the Knight Templar, minus the religious pretense. Elite vanguard knights into the Abyss. It does fit the current UO setting and like you said it is obscure so it would be flexible.

    As far as a structure goes, that is a very open subject. Do we want to see different tiers for combat characters and crafters or just one main tier? We could borrow classic Templar-like titles. Grand Master, Seneschal, Field Marshal, Commander, Marshall, Knight-Sergeant, Knight, Squire, Page, etc. Just suggestions I got from here:

    Templarhistory.com » Blog Archive » The Templar Hierarchy

    An evil organization is indeed tricky. Do you see an exact counterpart to the Knights idea with an evil group? That would be a bit limiting in my opinion because it would essentially be a group of Abyssal denizens. I'd definitely have to put some more thought into a premise for an evil group. Something to do with the Anti-Virtues, perhaps?
     
  13. EM_Bennu

    EM_Bennu UO Event Moderator
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    I think I would like to stick to a single rank path simply for the sake of simplicity, as an EM keeping track of this is an amazing feat from what I am gathering from other servers!

    I have some ideas on the 'bad guy' front, but Im keeping them to myself for now so that I get more feedback and ideas from you guys without me spoiling your own creative tendencies.

    In my mind. While both groups may or may not have started/resided in the Abyss, you wouldn't have to be an Abyssal Denizen in order to be a member of either one, they would both be open to all. But you would have to pick one group per character, you couldn't play both sides of the field with the same character. :)
     
  14. Tor Morgrim

    Tor Morgrim Guest

    Since becoming aware of the other RBG units on other shards, I've been hoping something similar would be developed on Atl.

    And I love the Crux Ansata idea.
     
  15. A question I have is, would joining the guild be required? Generally on the evil side, when the bad guys on Atlantic have gotten together it has always been more of a shaky Alliance rather then a merger. Atlantic has seen Alliances such as the Shadow Conclave in the past which was more of a firm agreement to protect one another and assist in furthering your allies goals for the same considerations from them.

    At one point we also saw, very briefly, an Alliance of basically every evil guild to capture and hold the city of Britain in one of Atlantics largest roleplay wars. This Alliance did not last long as evil guys tend to bicker and everyone wants to be top dog, but it was very fun.

    If the evil guild was formed as a direct opponent to the new Knights guild, a Daemon/fiend from the Abyss acting as the leader would work as a good backdrop. Followers/allies could be obtained from the existing crop of evil roleplayers and other players who just prefer the feel of being a bad guy.

    The reason for bad guys following this person would need to be established however. If a group of Knights is being formed to come stir up problems in the Abyss that could be this leaders reason for seeking additional evil followers (though if I had the Slasher of Veils and the Abyssal Infernal on my side I'd feel pretty good). The reason people would actually join up and take part is a bit more difficult...

    Bad guys generally need a reason, besides messing with the good guys, to care about anyone else. Beyond out of character "Phat Lewt", some form of in character power (for the power hungry)/fame (for the vain)/or support for furthering their own goals would need to be offered.

    Even if the evil groups leader just had in his possession an item of great power, the potential in character to over throw him and seize it could be enough for people to assist him (even if this is not possible as per game mechanics).

    Oh, and to be clear... I am very biased and would love to have some additional Daemons to interact with. Could even let them stay in the little girls room of by Abyss house =p
     
  16. EM_Bennu

    EM_Bennu UO Event Moderator
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    No no no.

    I do not think it is within the rules to actually have an EM head of a player guild, nor would I want that at all.

    Characters would remain in their own guilds (or unguilded) nothing would change for them except based on a RP level.

    Think of this as an additional layer to any other associations/fiction/background.
     
  17. Okay then this should work out fine as similar things have occurred, all be it sparingly, for the bad guys in the past.

    My memory is failing me (and my ability to spell as all these names were confusing) but in the past there was a yellow Lich seer character that interacted with the Shadow Conclave. This worked because she became part of the Alliance and assistance was offered both ways.

    We also had Juo'nar who primarily the Cult of Infernal Necromancy worked with. Ncr helped Juo'nar because they wanted to assist in corrupting Trinsic as they based out of the swamps nearby.

    Norsty'l (butchered that spelling) was a Daemon who was messing with Rivendell a lot at the time and he interacted with the Order of the Ebon Skull to an extent. Though a formal Alliance never occurred he was assisted by OES a few times because his goals coincided with OES's on those occasions.

    Basically the same theme repeats itself and that is, if you are evil and want help from other evil people, you need to do something for them or act in a way that benefits them.
     
  18. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    Actually, to my knowledge RBG was created to promote the developer run events long before any mention of it was made by the Developers. It was to be the team fighting for the good guys in the events. Several years later, it became an issue when the Developer team used the name in scenarios and the guild was almost forcibly dis-banned. It was saved only be a massive player petition.

    The only reason I brought it up here was to clarify that a distinction between the two needed to be made - and make sure that they was no confusion which was the Dev's big concern last time. It boiled down to an impression of "impersonating official EA staff" which was not the case.

    Either way, the guild is still here and will support this cause.
     
  19. TullyMars

    TullyMars Sage
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    Forgive my ignorance, but can EM's bestow titles that can be used by the player in the current titles menu options?

    If not, I assume we would have to go to an outside source/webpage to see our rankings and such?
     
  20. Dryzzid of Atlantic

    Dryzzid of Atlantic Journeyman
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    I believe the titles can be rewarded in game. If not by an EM, then it can be set up by Mesanna.
     
  21. EM_Bennu

    EM_Bennu UO Event Moderator
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    Reward titles are VERY VERY special happenings and very very rare, it is not something that would be included in the initial start-up phase of this.

    I have some ideas on the rewards front, but thats not what this is about :)

    At this point I am looking at general concept and structure, we can discuss this a bit tonight at the Meet and Greet as well.
     
  22. Dryzzid of Atlantic

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    I just hope there is a way to ascend the ranks in an RP-like fashion. It costs 175mil to buy a promotion in the RBG from Member to Lieutenant :p (A replica sash just won't do for me!) I could only imagine what it would cost to buy a Sergeant's Sash, which there are only about 3 of. I don't think Dryzzid will make it that high :p

    What specifics are looking for ideas on? In regards to structure, I mean? I'm not fully informed on how the other shards with this system or setup, I only have hearsay to go on.

    I definitely like the Knights of ...*scrolls down the thread* Crux Ansata! At the same time I also like the Order of the Silver Serpent but that is an old, old Atlantic RP guild that is still maintained by a player, so the name is unavailable. Either way, both are Ultima-centric and would fit in well lore-wise.

    The scope of practice of the Knights will have to be expanded down the line if the project is to be long term. "Abyssal vanguards" as I said in a previous post won't work forever. Eventually they will need a broader purpose once SA is old news.

    I'm not really sure how to approach framework at all. There could be "officially" recognized guilds, I heard that is something they do on another shard. Are you looking for ranks? Or how to implement guilds and players?
     
  23. EM_Bennu

    EM_Bennu UO Event Moderator
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    I really liked the Knights Templar reference and patterned it a bit after that. Ranks would be earned on a 'secret' points scale known to the EMs only through participation and through in game actions of merit.

    This is what I have in pencil right now:

    Think of the difference between a crewman and an officer in Star Trek, that is a bit like what I am seeing here. You are not a "Full Member" in the order until you are a Knight which would require a lot of effort. And Everyone is treated the same, from nobleman to peasant once you join you are a recruit no matter your previous station.

    The system would be designed for long term use, not something you could max out in 6 months and then forget about and lose interest in.

    I have not really thought about guild participation as a whole but I suppose that is the next logical course. However, rank and membership in the order would be on an individual basis. I will have to talk to some of the other servers on how they involve/recognize guilds without showing favoritism.

    My main concern is developing a system that is fair, equal and open to everyone with absolutely no favoritism involved whatsoever. But in that same breath, one that rewards participation, playing your role within the event/group/circumstance (But not DEMAND RP as it isn't for everyone) as well as discourages disruptive behavior.

    This is meant to be fun and rewarding, so I don't want it to be too complicated. I want to create basically a skeleton that is simple and easy to understand that then can be filled with the player base and with fiction and lore that you the players and we the EMs come up with.

    I already have some fiction ideas on how to introduce the order to the shard, but there is quite a lot to work on between now and then.
     
  24. Skrag

    Skrag Visitor

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    Sign me up for the Evil Squad of Evil. If I wanted to be railroaded into being a defender of the land, I'd go play WoW or something, you know? :D
     
  25. Skrag

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    Just to throw something out there:

    Back at Age of Shadows release, newbie necromancers were given a quest. It talked about how Umbra had some sort of evil god or demon sleeping beneath it called Kronus, and how the necromancers were trying to awaken it. I think newbies had to "empower" that black pit just east of Umbra bank, toward the eventual goal of awakening Kronus.

    Newbie quests were eventually changed in subsequent expansions and that bit of lore, the only official in-game lore regarding Umbra and necromancy, was just sort of paved over and forgotten.

    Would be nice if that could be touched upon.
     
  26. Adding that idea into the evil groups concept would be great. Since the storyline behind Kronos is so vague it leaves a lot of room to play with regarding where he is now, where he came from, etc.
     
  27. Barok

    Barok Grand Inquisitor
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    I think a Good/Evil theme might be hard to maintain over the long run. How about a family feud? Neither side good or evil, but both sides fanatically loyal to their respective leader?
     
  28. Skrag

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    That would require a deft touch and an awful lot of exposition in order to be made compelling. Without those, such a scenario becomes nothing but two indistinguishable sides that the player doesn't really care about. Unfortunately deft touches and heavy exposition are two things that don't really play to large crowds of MMO players participating on-the-fly in events that are often pretty chaotic just by their nature.

    Also, I want to dress in black and kick puppies. I just do. Sue me.
     
  29. Skrag

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    YES! YES! AND IT HAS TO BE THE SKULL OF MONDAIN!

    Mondain's skull was an item you could get in Ultima 4 all the way back in the eighties. (You know, the game that also introduced the Stygian Abyss?) It would obliterate every living thing in the user's vicinity, but would damn them in the process, stripping them of all virtue.

    So by making use of it, a player could in theory become basically an evil god, wiping out the population of entire cities at a stroke, effortlessly burning through dungeons, etcetera. Of course since you needed to perfect your virtues in order to win the game, you would pretty much screw yourself over if you gave into temptation.

    This totally needs to be it. Screw Kronus for now, someone needs to find a serious clue regarding the location of the Skull of Mondain. Then the race begins, the good guys seeking to destroy it, and the bad guys banding together to see that it isn't destroyed.

    Of course every bad guy is planning on eventually stabbing all the others in the back so that they can be the one to wield ultimate power, but for the moment they NEED to work together or it'll be destroyed by the good guys and they'll have no shot at ultimate power at all.

    It's too perfect. It ties into the lore of the original game to feature the Abyss, gives the good guys something they need to protect the world from, and throws such a huge potential prize in front of the bad guys that they won't be able to help cooperating for a time.
     
  30. Skrag

    Skrag Visitor

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    I'm just spammin' away in this thread, but whatever. Just wanted to say, we should remember that these events aren't strictly for roleplayers. (I'm back to the game on a new char after years away but I'm always a roleplayer at heart.) Yes we get a little more out of it than Joe Blow screaming for sashes, but ultimately the goal is to entertain the masses.

    I reeeally like Beleth's artifact of doom idea, and totally think it needs to be the skull of Mondain. It leaves tons of room for more involved RP on the side, but the basic story of "WIDGET OF DOOM, BADDIES WANT IT, GOODIES WANT TO DESTROY IT" is one that is easy to express even in limited time under chaotic conditions.
     
  31. I like your ideas a lot Skrag but I think that's a bit too specific for the thread. I believe the goal here is to provide more of a backdrop for the evil side rather then to get into specifics.

    I think both using Kronos and the Skull of Mondain would be cool and would work, but we there needs to be room for Bennu to decide where he wants to take things.
     
  32. EM_Bennu

    EM_Bennu UO Event Moderator
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    The project is currently focused on the backdrop like Beleth says, ranks, structure and the behind the scenes stuff like Merit Points and the like.

    I am willing to take suggestions for plot elements before too much gets written down, but it will be up to the individual EM running that particular group as far as fiction. But as always we are VERY open to having fiction ideas and such, so dont be shy about it.

    I have talked with Spriggan and he and I are going to be working on this project together.
     
  33. I wonder when we find out who the dark twin is =p
     
  34. Skrag

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    Right. I'm not sure, though, that I understand what function these ranks are intended to perform. Will they be given out as custom titles? Printed on sashes and handed out to be sold? If I'm some non-roleplaying Joe Banksitter, why will I look forward to being promoted? What should I do to demonstrate merit above and beyond the fifty other guys crowded around me screaming for rares?

    I think I'm missing a lot by not being familiar with programs from other shards.

    Anyway, unless the required back-end work is prohibitive, I'd make titles the "thing" and I wouldn't be shy about throwing them around. They're a prize every banksitter would love, but no trader could buy. But I suppose rares collectors pay their fees like anyone else, so your mileage may vary.
     
  35. EM_Bennu

    EM_Bennu UO Event Moderator
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    People dwell too much on rewards, so I am not willing to talk about that side of things at all at this point, other than to say the system itself will not be designed in a way to simply give out rewards.

    The promotions would be mostly a role playing thing, true. But at the same time even without the 'thees and thous' you can participate in the context of the events and still earn your merit points.

    I think I am nearly finished with the Knights of the Crux Ansata's general structure, see the above post where I listed the ranks. There is a lot of behind the scenes stuff as well as scoring and such but that's to remain unknown to anyone but Spriggan and I for the time being.

    Currently: I need to work on the fiction, as well as the main characters, then we need to work on interaction between the two groups. Or rather, HOW and WHY they will interact.
     
  36. quig

    quig Guest

    Lake Superior is not a good example, I have been going to events there for a year and am still a recruit. The only way to advance there is suck up to the EM.

    Great lakes is excellent, each event you go to gets 1 point (EMs write down everyones name that attended).
    But might be hard on Atlantic to write down everyones name at every event.

    Pacific has a book hand in thing, but still too new to know if that will work.
     
  37. EM_Bennu

    EM_Bennu UO Event Moderator
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    I have talked in depth with EMs from both LS and GL on this, they both helped me quite a bit with the behind the scenes stuff.

    I am literally in love with the Knight of the Crux Ansata concept, this is going to be a lot of fun :)
     
  38. Skrag

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    It's been a while, but I've seen enough non-roleplayers get sucked in and start yelling in-character at events to agree, I just needed to know.

    If you're doing an Evil Squad of Evil, the leader still needs to be a figure someone might follow. Think Darth Vader at his strutting badass best. A sort of martial figure to go with the military theme. Avoid making him weasely. Give him a weasel of an underling for a while, and then have the boss kill him off for failure. Something like that. Something not nice, but still badass.

    Make him brave. World conquest (or whatever) is no life goal for a coward. Maybe give him a little bit of a sense of honor. Make him almost a heroic figure except for the fact that, oh yeah, he's evil. An anti-paladin, so to speak. Just because he wants to wield ultimate power (or whatever) doesn't mean he has to be Cobra Commander, incompetently hissing and shrieking girlishly at everything that goes wrong.

    Give him a reason for his actions beyond "Hssss! Because I'm evil!" And let him win once in a while. It'll get old faster than fast otherwise.

    As far as interaction goes, we've got two competing martial orders (or whatever) and we're in Trammel. Well, at least a lot of the time. How's that supposed to work? That's the big question.

    I like the idea of taking a city and filling it up with NPC mooks who attack each other. I don't know if your EM powers extend to implementing something like orcish kin masks that affect the behavior of mobs. Probably not.

    Even if the mooks only fight players when attacked, they make a nice backdrop when a battle is called for story-wise but you're doing it in Tram and can't have a gankfest.

    /ramble
     
  39. Dryzzid of Atlantic

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    Elves can be knights, right? :p
     
  40. EM_Bennu

    EM_Bennu UO Event Moderator
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    Messages:
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    Just wanted to thank everyone for their input on this.

    I have take a lot of the ideas here, as well as ideas from other EMs with successful Royal Guard programs on their own server and designed something special and unique for Atlantic.

    Look for this to get started 'soonish', I hope everyone enjoys the concept and helps foster it for the enjoyment of all.
     
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