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Rumor has it....

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Lord Gareth, Feb 24, 2010.

  1. Lord Gareth

    Lord Gareth UO Content Editor | UO Chesapeake & Rares News
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    Some Chesapeake people started chit chatting. Something about cutting off the heads of reds in fel to turn in for a reward? Any truth to this?
     
  2. RawHeadRex

    RawHeadRex Slightly Crazed
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    you mean like old times but with rewards ? :popcorn:
     
  3. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I hope not because this would open the game to a new gold farming mine....

    Just have 2 accounts or take turns with a friend and chop heads of a red character a go-go for unlimited gold income from the rewards...

    No thanks.

    Only if the gold comes from the red's account it could be thinkable but never if the gold is rewarded from the game.
     
  4. Bazer

    Bazer Slightly Crazed
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    could always have the gold be from people donating it from there own pockets after theyve been killed by them to see the "murderer" get their just deserts
     
  5. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
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    One turn in per character?
     
  6. Bazer

    Bazer Slightly Crazed
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    1 or 2 sounds fair
     
  7. Aislinn

    Aislinn Adventurer
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    They were reminiscing about the "good old days". About how getting the losers head as a trophy like you used to be able to do, but it had been deemed too violent and could be abused so easily. They were just killing time while waiting for an idoc to fall.
     
  8. Mairut

    Mairut Guest

    That would be cool.
    I'd have to agree with both of these. Either one would work, but I'd personally not like having both at the same time.

    Maybe the devs could just come up with something new, like a ticket or something. You accept a bounty like a quest at an npc, (at luna or brit bank or maybe even a bounty-npc at every bank) you kill the red or whomever, a ticket pops into your pack and then you mark it as a quest item (or not mark it, I know that sounds redundant), take it back to the bounty npc and get the gold.

    The main problem with this is that the devs would have to work out who would get said ticket if there was more than one attacker (bounty hunter). From what I understand, there's a few systems for this in game (kill shot and whatnot), so it shouldn't be too hard to find one that fits best.
     
  9. Lord Gareth

    Lord Gareth UO Content Editor | UO Chesapeake & Rares News
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    Have you seen TV lately and what falls under the Teen rating now a days? LoL
     
  10. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Ok here's the deal. If you are killed by a murderer you can donate an amount from your bank for a bounty, up to a maximum of 10k or 20% of the total gold, including cheques, in your account, whichever is lower. That amount is then matched by an equal amount taken from the murderer's bank, up to a maximum of 20% of the total gold, including cheques, in the murderer's bank account.

    When you turn in a head, if the red was in factions then the person that turns in a head get's 20% of the bounty and the remaining 80% goes to a random opposing faction account in the form of silver. If the red was not in factions then the 80% goes to a random faction.

    I haven't thought through all the possible permutations, but I think that this would prevent the abuse of the bounty system. It would not be in the murderer's interests to allow himself to be farmed for gold because he/she would always lose more gold than he/she puts into it unless he/she wants to risk having no gold in the bank to cover insurance.

    edit: You cannot collect a bounty on anyone in your guild, alliance or faction.
     
  11. Mairut

    Mairut Guest

    Ops, sorry. I edited my reply because I didn't want to start another discussion about why bounties were taken out and the implications and whatever else. We've had that discussion plenty of times in Uhall and elsewhere.

    Honestly, I don't pay much attention to Disney or whatever teens might be watching. I like my history, discovery, travel and animal planet :p
     
  12. o2bavr6

    o2bavr6 Slightly Crazed
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    I know you said this was a work in progress but:

    So if a red has 10K in his bank and someone else has 10 mill and they want to put the 1 mill bounty on the red, how does the red contribute if he only has 10K in his bank?
     
  13. longshanks

    longshanks Guest

    I think llewen is on the right path if ... big if... something like this was to be brought back into the game.

    I would only be for something like this if it was tested and could be done in a way that it doesn't get exploited.
     
  14. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Then again game rating and tv rating are not the same, so it really wouldn't matter anyway. :p
     
  15. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    Bounty system as it was:

    1) Killed blues get a gump to report the murderer and set a bounty.
    2) Bounty amount is removed from killed player's bank
    3) When pk'r dies, head can be cut off and turned in to a guard
    4) All accumulated bounty on the pk'rs head is given to the char that turns in the head



    Problem with this is that the pk'r would die first and get a buddy to cut off his head and keep it (can repeat this a few times to save up a cache of severed heads). When enough bounty is accumulated, buddy can turn in the head to claim the bounty.



    Crazy ideas:
    1) Have the entire bounty come out of the pk'r bank account as soon as a bounty has been set
    Pro: No way to generate gold
    Con 1: Buddy can still claim the bounty
    Con 2: Pk'r can empty his bank of gold first (but that'll wreck havoc with his insurance money)
    Con 3: Victims (esp griefers) can set a ridiculous bounty like 1 billion gp

    2) Both pk'r and victim each foot half of the bounty as soon as a bounty has been set.
    Pro 1: No way to generate gold
    Pro 2: Griefers cannot set a bounty without fear of consequence
    Con 1: Buddy can still claim the bounty, (and get profit this time!)
    Con 2: Pk'r can empty his bank of gold first (but that'll wreck havoc with his insurance money)
    Con 3: Ridiculously rich folks can still make it hurt. There'll be a rich/poor divide, where poor folks might feel that their deaths are worth less. Now of course, this happens in the real world. Rich folks are often able to pay for private detectives/bounty hunters/even simple advertisements to track down the criminal and get vengeance. However, without further changes, I'm not sure I like this option.

    3) Both pk'r and victim each foot half of the bounty. But treat it as a gold sink. Both parties lose the gold forever. Gold is donated to the Fel community collections (Brit library/Vesper museum/Moonglow zoo). No stat loss, no long term counts. But if pk'r doesn't have enough gold to cover the bounty, he cannot be rezzed for a length of time. Length of time determined by 1 min for every 1000 gp he is short of.
    Pro 1: No generation of gold
    Pro 2: No buddies turning heads in to get money (but maybe turning heads in can be used for a gains in all the virtues/fame or special bounty hunter title. gains will be proportionate to the bounty)
    Pro 3: No griefers making ridiculous bounties
    Pro 4: While rich folks can still make a bigger impact, as a gold sink, I find this more acceptable
    Pro 5: It'll be nice to see the Fel collections flourish (could also be seen as an indicator of the PvP activity level)
    Con 1: May drive away PvP activity as folks become too afraid of killing others (not just the pk'rs, but pvp'rs that are defending a spawn etc). Rich and established PvP'rs can drive out all the poorer aspiring PvP'rs. Well, not exactly drive them out, but the less wealthy PvP'rs will refrain from attacking first, which will lose them the initiative.



    Still a crazy idea and could be a bit harsh, and I can't think of a way to mitigate the last issue...perhaps whoever turns in the head can get back 25% of the bounty?
     
  16. Ls Jax Ls

    Ls Jax Ls Visitor

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    This system would only work if they implemented a way to determine whether or not multiple players flagged the red. Bounty hunters work alone, not with 12 other money-hungry trammies.
     
  17. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Note the "maximum of 10k" for the bounty, and the cap on the murderer's contribution of 20% of the total in his bank. So if the victim contributes 10K and the murderer only has 10K in the bank, the murder only contributes 2K. That was one of the first things I thought of. :)
     
  18. Lord Gareth

    Lord Gareth UO Content Editor | UO Chesapeake & Rares News
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    I guess so. I know the old system from back then. They said it was going to be brought back. Thats why I asked if their is any truth to this.
     
  19. Otis Firefly

    Otis Firefly Slightly Crazed
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    i have been pushing the devs to bring back the old bounty ( remove thy heads) ways for quite awhile now and posted about it alot in the Council of War forums, it was always responded to with...*due to the ratings of the game we cannot be hacking up the players corpses anymore*! mind you that was the old dev team and things may have changed! last time i brought it up was during SA closed beta and got the same ratings answer!, i kinda doubt they will bring it back! BUT it would be awesome if they did
    ask about it in the ask the devs thread!! lol
     
  20. Berethrain

    Berethrain Slightly Crazed
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    Probably just talking about the old bounty system, where the more kills the red had the more his head was worth when you turned it into a guard in say britain for gold. You'd look at bounties on message boards on the bank wall and track them accordingly. They deemed it too violent and I doubt we see a return of head hacking.
     
  21. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Just a few quick notes on bounties.
    -If the red character never keeps any gold in his account, he won't ever have to pay into a bounty system. (Guilds would use this along with blues as looters.)
    -The red only has to insure his gear, doesn't need gold in the bank for re-insurance.
    -The threat of bounty hunters going after reds is of little concern to them. They can log out to avoid, otherwise they want the PvP and loot. They do have friends, good luck getting them alone.
    -if the reds bank keeps track of what they owe, and instantly deducts it, and IF insurance has to come from bank accounts (I don't know how this works presently, never thought about it), then the red can never re-insure his gear. However, he can switch gear with another or a second account, so it doesn't matter.

    The big thing to remember here is that PKers will do anything they can to avoid consequences. And they will do it in massive numbers. Unless the consequences are direct and unavoidable, you will still have rampant PKing, and the problem is not solved.
     
  22. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Don't bring back old bounty system but allow cutting up bodies in Felucca and on Siege.

    And allow heads to be mounted or placed on a pike.

    Let heads decay after 24 hours, if not mounted or placed on a pike.

    Don't allow heads to leave Felucca unless on Siege.

    Players could still be headhunters if someone want to pay for someones head.

    If their should be a kind of turn-in, the reward should depend of the murderers fame, counts, how long he had lived sinse last dead and how many they was to kill him. More fame, counts, being alive long time and few killers = better reward.
    It should not be a money reward, but maybe a kind of deco item telling that player name(s) killed murderer name at place. Maybe also how many counts should show on the deco item

    Turning in or mounting a head maybe should remove the murderers current fame.

    Mounting a head should work for a blue head too as not all bad guys are red.
     
  23. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    This was true years and years ago. So, in all likelihood, they were just talking about the days of old.

    It led to exploits. Lots of them.

    Basically the insurance gold thing is a bounty these days. I used to call it the "insurance bounty" system, but the term never caught on, so I dropped it.

    -Galen's player
     
  24. Megilhir

    Megilhir Guest

    Originally "bounties" were developed by players who had died at anothers hand.
    YOu could place 1 to xxxx amount of gold.

    First turn in got the bounty.

    If you had posted a bounty you were supposed to get a message informing you that So and so had killed such and such and has collected your posted bounty.

    I never posted a bounty. I either went elsewhere or plotted and exacted revenge.

    After all, revenge is a dish best served...
     
  25. Megilhir

    Megilhir Guest

    Agreed and a bit more.

    If you deign to have someone's head mounted in your home they should be able to break in and get it back.

    Where ever you are (if on-line or when you log in) Player X is breaking (has broken) into your residence to recover his/her head.

    Additionally, dismembering bodies is generally not an acceptable social behavior form. So you lose Karma, A LOT of Karma.

    Displaying Human heads (poor deer and antelope) is also not very Politically Correct. Again with the mass Karma hit for mounting it AND for each time you lock it down, touch it trade it etc.

    Lastly, if you have someone's head in a home associated with your account you are PERMA GREY to THAT specific character ANYWHERE (Trammel included) until the head is either removed, destroyed or recovered.

    NOW...we are Role Playing. Welcome to Ultima Online a leading MMO.
     
  26. Gawin

    Gawin Guest

    the funny part about the "game rating" is that the ESRB does not rate the online content............... ummmmm anyone else see the deal here?
     
  27. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Well the main problem with the bounty system is that dying doesn't matter, and thus once someone has a bounty, they will just have a friend kill them, and collect the gold themselves. If it took money out of the reds bank account they would just keep all their money on alts. I honestly cant think of a good way to do a bounty system that doesn't just reward whoever has the bounty on them. The only way I see it working is that there is no reward at all, just a ticket allowing you to freely attack someone who has murdered someone else.
     
  28. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    This whole issue was another fine example of a massively ridiculous over reaction on the part of certain parent groups. To somehow equate what you could do in UO with someone actually cutting off someone's head, or even consider that there was a remote connection between the two, is unbelievably stupid. It's right up there with the furor in the 70's about there being backwards messages on rock albums that would somehow brainwash poor defenseless youths into worshipping Satan...

    Maybe they should ban a certain book which includes descriptions of incest, ****, gruesome murders, torture, suicide and genocide - oh ya, and lots and lots of beheadings... That book? The Bible...

    Cool! Stairway to Heaven! Now where did I hide my pentacle and black candles?
     
  29. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Still, I think it is open to be exploited.

    How ?

    Let's say a few players donate X gold for a bounty over the killing of a murderer.

    Let's say that the same gold is withdrawn from the murder's account to match whatever was donated to the bounty from other players.

    All this, still does not excludes that the murderer will just find a buddy and let himself get killed by the buddy, easily.

    Then the buddy returns whatever gold was taken from the murder's account back and splits 50/50 the gold from the bounty.

    Basically, the players who donated the gold for the bounty get fooled and actually give all their gold to the murderer and his/her buddy........

    No thanks.

    Anything must exclusively come from the murderer bank box or otherwise, IMHO, it could too easily be exploited to fool those players or the game.
     
  30. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Under the system I described it would be exceptionally stupid to not keep lots of gold in your bank. What happens if you get rezzed killed? And if you have to reinsure all your items every time you die you exponentially increase your chances of making a mistake and failing to insure something important. I don't think this would be a problem.

    Under the system I described the red could have a friend collect his bounty, but then every time that happened an enemy faction would get an influx of silver.

    One thing that should be added and I will add it to my post is that you cannot collect a bounty on someone in the same guild, faction, or with whom you are allied (or someone that uses the same vent as you... ok this was a joke... ;) ).
     
  31. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    No, it would be exceptionally stupid to res until the red is safe. Sorry, but it would be a huge problem.
     
  32. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Well, wait a minute here. Every time a red kills someone, they get their insurance rather than their gear. And that goes into their bank account. Which could immediately be applied towards their bounty.

    Hmm, something to mull over....(first impression is that it still won't stop them...)
     
  33. RawHeadRex

    RawHeadRex Slightly Crazed
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    who said anything about 'gold' ? reds should have a very small chance of losing an item. real teeth for being red, like the old days...
     
  34. Jhym

    Jhym Guest

    Who says the bounty has to be gold? Why not a point system, with each murder since the last time the red was bountied = 1 point. For 50-100 kills, 5 points each, for 100+ kills, 10 points each.

    Reds who gather bounties can use the points to remove murders only (1000 points = 1 count.)

    Everyone else can use the points to buy limited use items ( mini-arties with low durability ) or balms and potions (mana-regen potions, invulnerable balm) , monster masks (become a troll), or crafting ingredients and special deco items.

    Then the twits all upset about gold in the game can be happy, and reds can get something out of the system too by feeding on each other.

    :grouphug:
     
  35. Zodia

    Zodia Guest

    You want them to ban the bible from UO?

    :confused:
     
  36. Multani

    Multani Journeyman
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    I do
     
  37. Zodia

    Zodia Guest

    :confused:
    I've played for 12 years and never seen The Bible in UO. So I don't know what you are referring to.
     
  38. popps

    popps Always Present
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    It does not matter whether the reward is gold or points.

    Unless the murderer has a lot more to loose from getting killed than whatever is gained, the system can be exploited.

    What prevents murderers from letting themselves be killed by either their second account or by a friend to easily gain whatever reward and then share it with the buddy?

    Only if getting killed becomes a pain for the murderer since they end up losing more than whatever can be gained from their kill, the system can avoid being exploited because the murderers would just not want to get killed in the first place.

    And not even.........

    For example, let's imagine that reds, upon getting killed, suffer perma skill loss. This is only to help our discussion.
    I know perma skill loss is hated and that is why I am using it as an argument.

    Since it is hated, murderers would never allow themselves to get killed and suffer perma skill loss to gain something from a bounty reward system.

    Yet, even this can be exploited.

    How ?

    Disposable red characters.

    Just made up characters that players do not care about, they let them get killed and even if they loose skills who cares.......

    The very first thing one need to think about, when planning about introducing new content is "How can this be exploited by players" ?

    Because chances are, that if the new content has room for being exploited it will be exploited, sooner or later........
     
  39. Lord Gareth

    Lord Gareth UO Content Editor | UO Chesapeake & Rares News
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    Point is who cares if people exploit it by killing themselves with a friend. Its still fun for those of us who can still go out, hunt them and try to get something.

    The thing that PvPers will be able to brag about is how much they ARE WORTH! Most pvpers have all the gold they could ever want. The person that has the highest bounty on the shard is a god! So they would be wise to NOT turn it in and knock their gold count down. So they are not going to want to die.

    (Something to counter act just dropping a bounty on someone so you can make a random character worth 100mill then never use them is to have the price drop down daily. So they need to keep killing to maintain their current worth. Sorta like how faction points work I guess.)

    When you go to collect the bounty perhaps instead of geting the gold you get a little guy or girl mini Statue. That says.

    [​IMG]
    Bounty Hunter Julia beheaded The Vile ShawShanker (Worth 100,000 crowns)

    OOOOOOoooo!! A gold Sink combo too!!
     
  40. Dolphoenix

    Dolphoenix Guest

    Why over complicate things?

    Player murders a player.
    Would u like to report murder? Yes
    Old kill board is reinstated (so we can see who is the best killer!)
    "bounty" is placed automatically on murderer's head, say 1k gold.
    No matter how many times reported amount doesn't go over this. (per head)
    murder is killed and beheaded.
    Head turned in. 1k gold rewarded + Justice virtue points.


    There u go. Simple system.

    If someone wants to have their head cut off 1000 times to earn 1 mil gold I say let em!
     
  41. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    x: nevermind
     
  42. Mairut

    Mairut Guest

    What if trammies( ummm...no offense, not sure what else to call trammel-based players) could use these points to use trammel-based gear, like faction gear?
    We can call it bounty gear.

    You could even make the points system like the one for factions. You could buy gear at a stone in Brit or Luna (I don't like Luna too much more than the next person, but being the hub of Chivalry and all that, it would make sense for the red hunter's capital to be in Luna, or at least Malas)

    Make it like factions, only for Trammel. Maybe make the gear a little different, or have different kinds. Equal in power, but different.

    I don't see why this wouldn't solve the problem of people going into fel and joining factions just to get faction gear, when there's a perfectly good set (I hope the devs would make it perfectly good) in Trammel.

    I can think of a whole slew more of problems that could possibly be solved with a little more tweaking on this one idea, but I'll just leave it at that :thumbup1:
     
  43. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    You have to look at the goal of a system.

    -If you just want to give game play to PKers, then this kind of stuff is fine.

    -If you want to create a single game world, rules wise and socially, then you have to consider what's going to work to limit PKing to something acceptable to the majority.

    -If you want to give special attention to a single group that allows them to prosper over other players, they will become your majority. Choices must be made, you can't get around it.
     
  44. Darknat

    Darknat Guest

    What about getting the bounty from the gold the murderer has, And if he/she doesn't have any, his money gets negative which means that when he gets money from any source (killing, trading or whatever), that money dissapears until he pays the bounty that was set on him/her.

    If the character gets deleted, or the player uses another character, the bounty money that he has to pay is transfered to that new character. In the end that money would be paid from the PK account.

    The bounty is set by the characters killed by that PK. Of course the character who puts a bounty on a killer also pays that bounty. The bounty can get bigger as more characters pay for it, but in the end it can't be exploited because the money received from the bounty is half of what it's paid in the game.

    My english is really bad for explaining it so I would use an example:

    PK has 100 gold in his bank

    PK kills player 1
    Player 1 puts a bounty of 100 gold (100 gold are withdrawn from his bankbox)
    PK kills player 2
    Player 2 also puts a bounty of 100 gold(again the gold is withdrawn from his bankbox)

    The bounty is now 200 gold

    Player 3 kills PK and cuts his head. Player 3 takes the head to a guard: he receives 200 gold (the 200 gold he receives is taken from the PK bank, the PK had just 100 so that gold is taken from him, and the next time he gets another 100 the gold is taken from him until he pays his own bounty)


    if the player logs in with another character, the debt is passed to that character (and it goes from one char to another until he pays the debt)
    If the PK character is deleted, the debt is passed to the next character the player logs in.


    In the end if the bounty is 200 gold, the players who placed the bounty would have paid 200, and the pk another 200. So 400 gold are paid for the 200 bounty.

    This way the PK can never get his own bounty (he would receive the same gold he loses), and it can't be exploited by a friend because they would loose money that way.


    EDIT: well, after writting it I saw a problem. A PK could get a friend to kill him so that he gets rid of his bounty, so maybe instead of the PK paying the same amount, he should pay twice the amount.

    So a 200 bounty would be 600 gold (200 by the people who placed the bounty, and 400 by the PK).

    Also there should be a limit to the bounty...
    And maybe instead of paying the debt with the money they get from monsters, trading all that, just receive 90% less from that money, so if they have a debt of 100 gold, and a monster drops 100 gold, they would receive just 10 gold, and their debt would be reduced to 10 gold (they paid 90g).