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Runic Hammers - How do the rolls actually work?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Guest, Apr 8, 2008.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    My question is this...

    When crafting with a runic hammer, in what order are the values calculated, or rather, how are they calculated? I realize some hammers have 20, 30, and 40% minimum intensities. But my question is this...

    ...Do all the hammers have the same chance to roll max intensity? Meaning, is a percentile die rolled, and then a value determined based on the minimum intensity, or is there a spread based on minimum intensity, and then a die rolled based on that?

    Here, let's put this to numbers, because it's a little tough to explain what I'm talking about.

    Hammer 1: 50% Minimum Intensity
    Hammer 2: 25% Minimum Intensity

    For dice rolls, is a 1-100 die used for both hammers, and then the numbers mesh in to match with the minimum intensity? Or, for Hammer 1, would a 50-100 die be used, statistically making a max intensity roll more likely than a 1-100 roll? And for Hammer 2, a 25-100 die be used, still making a max intensity more likely than a 1-100, but yet not as likely as a 50-100.

    Hopefully this isn't too confusing for people to understand :/
     
  2. You mean is it rolled as 1-100% intensity first off and then rounded up if it falls under the min
    or is it rolled at a min intensity - 100% making 100% more likely the higher the min. (so say 50%-100% would be a 1 in 50 chance instead of 1 in 100 as with a 0%-100% runic)


    if thats what you mean then its the second one. i think
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    they don't all have the same chance to roll 100% intensity....


    I dont have the key in front of me but say one runic is:

    50 to 100% it has a best chance to roll 75% intensity

    if its 80 to 100% runic, its gonna roll 90% intensity most of the time.
     
  4. jelake

    jelake Guest

    Interesting question, might make a good Five on Friday question, though I swear they've already answered it in a previous FoF.

    I've always assumed it was RANDOM(Max Intensity - Min Intensity) + Min Intensity.
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    it was either in patch notes, or a recent fof.


    its as i said....you have a better chance to hit the middle range on each.
     
  6. In a previous FoF, Jeremy stated the intensity dispersion was equal for each value. So if you found something different through tests, share the info.
     
  7. <blockquote><hr>

    it was either in patch notes, or a recent fof.


    its as i said....you have a better chance to hit the middle range on each.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    FoF - March 14th, 2008

    "Do the mod intensities from runic made armors/weapons still have a linear distribution?"

    Yes they do - what this means is if a runic hammer has an intensity range of 60% to 100%, it's exactly as likely to get a 60% intensity property as a 100% intensity property.


    ...

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I imagine the confusion on whether the distribution is linear or not stems partly from the fact that FoF says one thing (as you've quoted above) and other Dev posts say another:

    Wilki in this thread:

    "Here is some background on my thought process behind these changes:

    Any ML peerless will drop 16 items that can have 5 properties, rolling from 75-100% intensity. You can kill more than one peerless a day, but you probably aren't going to collect multiple high end runic hammers in a day. So that's my basis for the higher low end intensities on the harder to get runics.

    As for the low end runics, just because something can roll a 100% intensity property doesn't mean that it's at all likely. I don't know if any of you remember Mr. Tact's post from a few years ago explaining how intensities are rolled, but a 45-100% intensity roll doesn't mean it has an equal chance to roll any number between 45-100. It's far more likely to be in the middle somewhere."
     
  9. <blockquote><hr>

    When crafting with a runic hammer, in what order are the values calculated, or rather, how are they calculated? I realize some hammers have 20, 30, and 40% (see below) minimum intensities. But my question is this...

    ...Do all the hammers have the same chance to roll max intensity?(&lt;&lt; YES) Meaning, is a percentile die rolled, and then a value determined based on the minimum intensity, or is there a spread based on minimum intensity, and then a die rolled based on that?(*shrugs*)

    [/ QUOTE ]

    http://guide.uo.com/itemproperties_3.html

    dull copper
    min intensity 40%
    max intensity100%
    min prop 1
    max prop 2

    valorite
    min intensity 85%
    max intensity100%
    min prop 5
    max prop 5
     
  10. The missed the word before chance (same). Just because a dull copper hammer CAN roll the same intensity as a valorite doesnt mean that they have the SAME CHANCE to roll that intensity.

    The way I see it, a dull copper hammer would have the same chance to roll 40% as 100% or 55% or 98%. However, the dull copper would have less chance to roll 100% than a valorite hammer because the valorite hammer has a smaller range of intensities to roll from.

    So, do all hammers have the same chance to roll max intensity? My answer would be no.


    <blockquote><hr>

    Yes they do - what this means is if a runic hammer has an intensity range of 60% to 100%, it's exactly as likely to get a 60% intensity property as a 100% intensity property.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    and

    <blockquote><hr>

    a 45-100% intensity roll doesn't mean it has an equal chance to roll any number between 45-100. It's far more likely to be in the middle somewhere."


    [/ QUOTE ]

    are somewhat conflicting (unless the 2nd one meant it is more likely to get a value between 46-99 which is over 98% of the distributed values). It would be possible to test this with about 6 dull copper hammers (300 pieces, many will be trashed though) and only record properties with a cap of at least 15 (cant determine actual intensity from MR1 or MR2)
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    It appears my info came from the Developer Post and not the FoF.

    So we have conflicting information...not a first. (everyone is right!)
     
  12. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

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    If the curve is bell-shaped, if the range is from 60-100%, then 60% &amp; 100% should be equally likely, but rarer than 80%, which would be the Mean (and probable mode) of the distribution.
     
  13. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

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    If the curve is bell-shaped, if the range is from 60-100%, then 60% &amp; 100% should be equally likely, but rarer than 80%, which would be the Mean (and probable mode) of the distribution.
     
  14. eolsunder1

    eolsunder1 Guest

    I think they changed it, but as previous posts stated..

    Property intensity. If you have a hammer that rolls 40%-100%. Random roll is generated. If roll is below 40% then 40% is assigned. This I think was the old method, but im pretty sure with recent changes staff said they fixed this.

    The old method was kinda buggy. What it ment was that you had a 40% chance to get 40%, and a 60% chance to get 41-100. How it should work is that you have a random roll 1-60 and then added to 40. But that wasn't the way it worked before.

    Old method.. random roll 1-100. If roll &lt; 40 then roll = 40.

    How new method should work. random roll 1-61 + 39.


    I think it was stated that the old method kinda didn't work right. If you had a hammer that would give 80-100 intensity, the old method guaranteed that 80% of the time you would get the basic 80 intensity, and only had a 20% chance to get 81-100. So a 300% chance increase to get the minimum roll over the higher rolls.

    I BELIEVE the new updates have fixed this, hopefully. I haven't fully kept up with them since I don't do runics much, but I hope we are doing the correct NEW method.
     
  15. eolsunder1

    eolsunder1 Guest

    I think they changed it, but as previous posts stated..

    Property intensity. If you have a hammer that rolls 40%-100%. Random roll is generated. If roll is below 40% then 40% is assigned. This I think was the old method, but im pretty sure with recent changes staff said they fixed this.

    The old method was kinda buggy. What it ment was that you had a 40% chance to get 40%, and a 60% chance to get 41-100. How it should work is that you have a random roll 1-60 and then added to 40. But that wasn't the way it worked before.

    Old method.. random roll 1-100. If roll &lt; 40 then roll = 40.

    How new method should work. random roll 1-61 + 39.


    I think it was stated that the old method kinda didn't work right. If you had a hammer that would give 80-100 intensity, the old method guaranteed that 80% of the time you would get the basic 80 intensity, and only had a 20% chance to get 81-100. So a 300% chance increase to get the minimum roll over the higher rolls.

    I BELIEVE the new updates have fixed this, hopefully. I haven't fully kept up with them since I don't do runics much, but I hope we are doing the correct NEW method.
     
  16. BadManiac

    BadManiac Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    If you have a hammer that rolls 40%-100%. Random roll is generated. If roll is below 40% then 40% is assigned.

    [/ QUOTE ]I REALLY hope this is not true. That would mean virtually everything would always be guaranteed to roll minimum intensities, since you'd always have 40% chance to get a minimum intenstity with that hammer.

    It's far more likely that it's just a straight random number between the min and max properties. no bell curve distribution, no fancy stuff at all. Just like that dev post says. If the intensity is 40%-100% a 60 sided "dice" is "rolled" and the result + 40% is what you end up with.
    The dice has the exact same chance at landing on 40 and it has 100
     
  17. BadManiac

    BadManiac Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    If you have a hammer that rolls 40%-100%. Random roll is generated. If roll is below 40% then 40% is assigned.

    [/ QUOTE ]I REALLY hope this is not true. That would mean virtually everything would always be guaranteed to roll minimum intensities, since you'd always have 40% chance to get a minimum intenstity with that hammer.

    It's far more likely that it's just a straight random number between the min and max properties. no bell curve distribution, no fancy stuff at all. Just like that dev post says. If the intensity is 40%-100% a 60 sided "dice" is "rolled" and the result + 40% is what you end up with.
    The dice has the exact same chance at landing on 40 and it has 100