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SA Client Lies?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Doomsday Dragon, Sep 3, 2008.

  1. Doomsday Dragon

    Doomsday Dragon Visitor

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    So first off I do not want this to go to SnR because I am not really ranting I just have to ask a few questions and bring about a few points here.

    With the release of SA we will no longer have the KR client we will have 2D and SA only. So...

    If SA is really a "new" client. KR was a complete failure because it was discontinued before it was ever actually completed?

    If SA is actually just a finished and retouched renamed version of the KR client then really it is not a "new" client at all because it is still KR only with a name change some graphics changes and major bug fixes?

    If the case is the that it is actually just a reworked version of KR then I would have preferred I was told that vs told we are getting a "new" client as saying that is very misleading.

    I actually thing this is all a big scam to get us to adapt to KR by misleading us into trying it again with some new changes made to it.

    So what does everyone else think?
     
  2. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    Check this out:

    Legacy client publish 55 is a new client.

    That makes Legacy client publish 54 an old client.

    Legacy client has still never been completed.

    Does all of that make Legacy client a complete failure?

    Does that make Legacy client a big scam because it didn't launch with publish 55 to begin with?
     
  3. Hoffs

    Hoffs Gilfane Keeper of the Hall
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    Erm, the answer is 'yes and no', as stated in the QA. I don't think there is any attempt to mislead on this point:

    Q. Is the SA Client a completely new client?

    Yes and No. It's built on top of the existing KR technology but there will be enough changes made to make look and feel significantly different.

    Q. Will there be new art?

    Yes and No. We hope to have the UI completely reskinned to give it a more "Stygian" feel. We also hope to touch up some of the terrain textures used in the client. For world art, our current plan is to use a mix of 2d and KR artwork (basically pick the best of the best from each). The mobs will use the art from KR.
     
  4. Beefybone

    Beefybone Visitor

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    *facepalm*

    Am I the only one who remembers EA wanting to know who was on the "T2A client" and the "LBR client" and the "AOS client" and so on, so they could discontinue patch sequences for the oldest ones?

    Calling the expansion edition of a client by the name of that expansion isn't a new thing. Or to put it another way: We've technically had about 8 different clients, but nobody noticed or cared because most of them were just slightly-modified builds of 2D.
     
  5. Satanatra

    Satanatra Guest

    This post is just a lame attempt to stir up ****. Whats your point?
     
  6. Doomsday Dragon

    Doomsday Dragon Visitor

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    Yes but my point here is that they talk about the SA client as if it were something totally new and written from scratch vs calling the client by the era of expansion or publish it was associated with.

    When you talk about UO2D we all know the T2A client and the LBR client are one in the same aside from the new content added in for each expansion and publish.

    With the SA client they are seemingly referring to it as a brand new thing. Not just a rehashed version of a previous client.

    I also gather from those yes and no answers that this is in fact just that. Rehashed KR and I am not interested based on that. Sure I may take a look at it and give it a shot and it may actually be better than I think. If that is what happens I will actually be happy. I would hate to think it were going to be something ground breaking and then be let down when I see it is nothing like I had hoped.
     
  7. Hoffs

    Hoffs Gilfane Keeper of the Hall
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    From my recollection of the Town Hall, they pretty much stated what was in the QA post - that this was a reworked KR - 'the KR that KR should have been'.

    I would imagine that they are mindful of how few veterans have taken up the KR client and I think they will be trying to bring in as many legacy features as possible this time around. But anyway, they have stated that SA will not require the new client so you need not worry.
     
  8. Ciar2001

    Ciar2001 Guest

    Am I right in thinking that the guys who now dev UO are Mythic EA? if so being a vet of DAoC from beta until I came back to UO 3 months ago so that's like 7 years or something, Mythic released various DAoC clients original followed by SI ToA, DR and then Catacombs and Labyrinth can't remember if Cata or Laby were both client and engine changes, but 90% of these listed were client updates and complete graphics and engine changes, if EA Mythic or Mythic now have control over UO I would imagine they are going to do something rather good for SA, the only time Mythic/DAoC ever made a mistake was with the ToA expansion and engine wise I would say generally they have always improved the game running wise, it was definately the best release from beta and smoothest game I have played glitch/bug wise.

    maybe I am being optimistic but I am a 97-01 vet of UO and 7 year vet of DAoC if they are in charge then great :)
     
  9. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    To my understanding, EA will build a completely new client based on the Gamebryo framework. What seems to remain is mostly the in-game artwork introduced with KR (unfortunately!), but the artwork has nothing to do with the client. What (to my understanding) will change is the window design, the toolbars, the macro system, paperdoll, maps, containers, client options and settings, stuff like that. And that is what I call a "Client".

    So, yes, if what I wrote above is true, we will get a "New Client".
    (I'd rather have a new artwork as well, but we'll probably get a new Client only.)
     
  10. Mitzlplik_SP

    Mitzlplik_SP Guest

    Exactly how I see it.

    Who cares if its brand new or an improved KR? I mean really,who cares? Everyone cried and cried "where is SA! why was SA dropped" and now it is confirmed that it is something definate for the future and yet there is still peaple who feel the need to cry over something as trivial of it being new or improved....sheesh. Why not try to be happy and apreciative that we are getting new content,upgrades and fixes AND a much improved KR?
     
  11. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    Would that be wrong?

    Would you ever try it again if it was just called "KR patchlevel x,y.z"?

    Ironically, the way you rant is the perfect explanation of why they would have to rebrand it - you sound like you have a visceral hatred that goes beyond all sense.
     
  12. Doomsday Dragon

    Doomsday Dragon Visitor

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    No I don't and no this is not a rant either. I am simply calling it as I see it. For those that see it differently there is nothing wrong with that.

    For the trolls and flamers take your crap else where this thread is not a b*tch session I am simply making a statement about what I see and how I view it.

    I also said I would be willing to check the new client out and if it was actually that much of an improvement then good...

    I just prefer a cut and dry up front explanation of exactly what we are getting and not a vague sugar coated explanation.
     
  13. deadite

    deadite Sage
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    Think about it for 10 seconds and you should come to the answer.

    SA client is the rebranding of a fixed up KR client. KR has bad connotations because it was released early and incomplete... fixing it up and calling it SA is going to generate more interest than just continuing to patch KR.

    Business 101 my friend.
     
  14. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    All 3 clients or versions of the UO client or whatever else you wish to call them playing around with semantics, will be supported. The answer is nothing but the number "3".

    So please EA, bring back the rest of the scrapped clients as well and improve them.

    It only makes sense with all the crazy decisions they've taken with SA.
     
  15. Raina

    Raina Journeyman
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    That's what I'd first thought too when it was announced that EA bought Mythic... of course since then I've learned otherwise unfourtinatly. It would seem Mythic adopted EA's ways instead of vice-versa. The KR client launch, it's current state, and the amount (or lack thereof) of updates to UO in general since they 'took over' has kinda proven otherwise.

    ~Rai
     
  16. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    Think of SA as KR 2. It is a marketing thing not a new client really. Don't worry about it so much.
     
  17. Omnicron

    Omnicron Stratics Legend
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    And I thought Drinkbeerallday liked to moan and groan, ***** and complain. But yet, Dragon you got him beat handsdown. It seems like you find something to hate about Ultima Online everyday. I suggest you take a break man.
     
  18. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    I've made a similar analogy in another thread to the ones below, but it bears repeating in the context of this post. The best analogies come out of the automotive industry, that I've been exposed to all my life (over 40 years) as the son of a dealership manager.

    1. A New client built on the platform of an existing one does not mean that the old one was a failure (though KR was fairly crippled to start out with).

    After all, every year, every car manufacturer puts out new model year vehicles, about 80-90% built on the same chassis as the previous year - just with upgraded parts to better fit who they think are the targeted customers, or to fix bugs reported by QA or the current owners. Half the rest are "new" models, with new names, but built on the existing chassis of current models (examples: the evolving of the 90s Monte Carlo from the Lumina, which in turn was based on a stretched Corsica/Beretta, etc. And, the H2 & H3 Hummers, that used modified versions of existing GMC/Chevy SUV chassis when developed).

    2. Sometimes "just repairing" isn't an option. You see this all the time on TV shows about restoring classic vehicles. Sometimes there's enough left of a car to restore, but you just can't bondo and paint it, and expect it to last.

    When these people "restore" a car, what they mean is they strip it down to its component parts, refurbish (not just repair) what is still structurally sound, and replace (sometimes having to hand-craft) what isn't salvagable or was just plain missing when they found it as a rusting heap. They then effectively rebuild the car from the ground uo, with all those restored & new pieces, some of which are often far better than what the car's original equipment was, if not going for a classic competition competitor vehicle (where cars are judged by the parts numbers, and often even the serial numbers, matching up exactly to the OEM equipment for that manufacturer, in that year, for that specific model).

    Since that's not the intent for a rebuild for improvement, they'll definitely be adding in new pieces that weren't present in the original KR, or even the version patched up to today. But replacing items patched several times, with items that do what the patches do out of the box, will vastly improve performance out of the box, for ANY software.

    KR's flaws, IMO, can probably be traced to EA Japan. Unlike EA here in the states, they promised KR as a retail box product by a certain date. So, in order to not lose face (And the economic repercussions of not meeting that deadline, in terms of manufacture & delivery), they effectively forced KR out prematurely. The Beta test was with software that was at best ready for Alpha testing, and despite all the open beta testers (and probably the programmers) telling them that at best, the software was in a state that it should have been for in closed beta for a few more months, it was shoved out to the world market (even the places it was a free download) to meet that impossible deadline. Just my feelings, based on what I know from having to deal with a similarly implacable Japanese industry (anime) for 10 years as an anime convention staffer (and sometimes department head), getting to listen in on horror stories (often over dinner) between American/Canadian industry people who've worked on projects over there, or dealt with deadlines in the US imposed by the Japanese owners. Western companies are much more likely to admit something's wrong, and push back the release date of something to attempt a fix. Japanese companies (and the Japanese divisions of western companies) are masters at SS Titanic deckchair rearranging, and will go out of their way to cover up issues that are potentially fatal to their product unless the release date is pushed back, rather than admit something is wrong, and ask for more time (remember the issues over the last few years, with various game consoles being released with severe issues? - same issue, different expression).
     
  19. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    Don't want to be called a ranter? Then don't say "lies" in your title.

    (but, my overdeveloped sense of etiquette aside, I think it's fairly clear that since they have spoken of spending a lot of time on fixing existing bugs that this means the SA client is a rebranded patched up KR client)
     
  20. Doomsday Dragon

    Doomsday Dragon Visitor

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    WTF are you talking about? I am not complaining at all and I do not find something new to complain about every day either. For the most part I am a support of the game.

    I really wish a few people would pull their head out of their a** and stop taking everything and turning it into what they want for the sake of being a ******...
     
  21. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    The SA Client = The KR Client just with 6+ more months' worth of work on it.

    If KR were a failure, there wouldn't be an SA client, there would simply be thre revert to the 2d client.
     
  22. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    I would say with the move they lost most of the people working on it and couldn't figure out what went into it so decided to scrap it much like UX:O.
     
  23. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Almost... they brought in new people and decided to revamp the entirety of the KR/SA combo.

    But yes, the move did hurt the production of both SA and KR for a long time.

    New team, new vision.

    The same thing happened with Necromancy, only it took several YEARS between the time it was first attempted (pre-UO:R) and when it was actually released (AOS).
     
  24. NewThunder

    NewThunder Guest

    Good then I wont need to waste my time loading the SA client. If KR was such a success why do they have to rebrand it? If KR was such a success why after more then a year hasn't everyone switched to playing the client?
     
  25. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - Maybe because they've spent 6+ months diligently working on it without updating it, so they can reintroduce it as a new version with some substantial added benefits, and call it something other than what some people have grown to dislike so much that they won't give it another chance?
    Come on New Thunder :) You know you are a prime candidate. ;)