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SA & UOAM

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Airhaun, Aug 17, 2009.

  1. Airhaun

    Airhaun Seasoned Veteran
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    The absence of UOAM compatibility with SA is a huge handicap for many subscribers. I understand the UOAM developer has abondened the program and will not update it. But here is what has me baffled.

    With all the people who play and the resources we have, isn't there someone who can write a similar program and get it approved by EA. I am not a programmer and not sure what it entails but I don't understand why this hasn't happened yet. Or perhaps the release of SA is just what we need to stir movement and progress in this direciton.

    Any ideas... thoughts?
     
  2. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    I am curious (not to argue, but just for information purposes) what, exactly about UOAM do you find so necessary over what the SA Atlas provides?

    1 - Dual Monitor Support
    2 - GUILD Tracking (vs. Party Tracking)
     
  3. Alvinho

    Alvinho Great Lakes Forever!
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    I can run it full screen on my dual monitor set up, where as SA client must use full screen option and useable on only one monitor
     
  4. Because I not going to play in the SA client, only the classic 2d. So UOAM update is a big thing on my wish list.
     
  5. Airhaun

    Airhaun Seasoned Veteran
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    Hi Ailish,

    UOAM is used by most guilds as a way to communicate and TRACK each other in-game. It's really handy when you're PvPing or spawning. The new SA client doesn't track players.

    But more specifically I'm referring to those who will use the Classic 2D version of the SA client, which I'm sure will be many.
     
  6. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    The first part is completely doable. The second, bolded part, is not. The application approval program has been closed for almost a decade.
     
  7. IanJames

    IanJames Certifiable
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    it's supposed to track party members, but I've been finding it a bit dodgy lately.
     
  8. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    I actually am aware of this; hubby hosts a map server on our spare computer for an alliance of several guilds.

    As noted, SA Atlas will track PARTY members, tho it definitely needs some work.

    I am not discounting the need for more, only gathering information on what people want out of the SA map.

    @ DrakeLord - Updating UOAM is not within the bounds of UO/Mythic.
     
  9. Mitzlplik_SP

    Mitzlplik_SP Guest

    In all honesty,the only thing I used UOAM for is T-maps. How are T maps on the SA client? Has anyone tried doing them? Is it back to the old sextant method or are there tags on the locals on the SA map like there is on UOAM?
     
  10. Zayin666

    Zayin666 Lore Keeper
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    You can put up tag or pointers on the map with exact coordinates... if thats what you mean?
     
  11. Zayin666

    Zayin666 Lore Keeper
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    I know UOAM is used by all 2d users, but I dont see how you can blame EA for doing what they are doing with the SA client. They have improved the map greatly and it looks alot like UOAM.
    To ask them to support an old (unsupported) 3rd party application in a new client is asking too much imho.
    Let EA improve the ingame map and in time Iam sure they can fit in most functions from UOAM.
     
  12. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    Oh, btw guys im pretty certain that if you take the map file and drag it to the UOAM screen when loaded it will run it as that map, providing they are orientated the same way it should work.

    Just a thought ill be testing later, if i get it to work ill post on how.
     
  13. Aboo

    Aboo Guest

    Exactly my thoughts. I don't know how I will get by without UOAM. :sad3:
     
  14. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    Have you tried the SA Atlas, Aboo? What, for you, is it missing?
     
  15. Chrissay_

    Chrissay_ Guest

    This is an approved 3rd party application and we are not able to update this. We can only recommend to contact the Software creator.

    From my understanding the creator no longer supports this (correct me if I'm wrong). So UOAM may not get an update to work with the Enhanced client.
     
  16. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Does the new 2D client have the built in map feature for guildmates?
     
  17. Nastia Cross

    Nastia Cross Guest

    I second Lynk's question. Being able to track party members is one thing, but how often do guild members party up? Not very often at all. I know I will NOT be using the new client so that feature isn't going to apply to me anyway.

    It would be nice if the 2D client had a map feature for guildmates OR if EA would allow someone (other than the original developer obviously) to update UOAM to support the new SA maps. I'd like to be able to pvp in the new areas but will not venture there without guild map support.
     
  18. Aboo

    Aboo Guest

    I have played around with it, but so far I find I still like 2d better. My understanding is that if you play 2d you don't get the same features as with the SA client. Is that correct? I can't test it while I am at work because my computer here doesn't run anything other than 2d very well.
     
  19. Airhaun

    Airhaun Seasoned Veteran
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    Hy Zayin,

    I'm deffinetly not blaming EA for UOAM not being compatible with the new lands. They have nothing to do with it and it isn't their fault at all, what-so-ever. :) Maybe people are so used to hearing complaints, some get a bit trigger happy. ;)

    But I am opening up for discussion a very important point: Not being able to use UOAM to track yourself and fellow mappers is a problem for both the client/subscriber and EA. Subscribers will be missing out on the full gaming experience they have come so used to enjoying over the past decade and EA may lose revenue from people not willing to buy, install and use the new expansion.

    It seems it would be in both party's best interests to find some solution. As someone has already mentioned, perhaps EA could re-open the 3rd Party Application Approval Program for Ultima Online. Because I'm not to confident the UOAM developer is going to move on this. And that's too bad. He could probabl make a profit by updating UOAM and releasing the new version for say... $5 a pop?
     
  20. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    FYI, You do not have to use the new client with the new expansion. 2D is only getting a few new features (namely the crafting menu add ons), but it will be completely compatible with the SA expansion. To be honest, they are not trying to encourage people to keep using the 2D client, they are trying to encourage them to change to the new client.

    @ Nastia - That is not EA's choice. The original designer of UOAM has sole rights to the program and has declined to release them to anyone (presumably even EA). Legalities mean that EA can do nothing about it.
     
  21. Simon

    Simon Journeyman
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    Yea, the UOAM creator is not supporting UOAM anymore.

    Is there a way to move the "approved"-status to another developer for the same kind of software?
     
  22. And this is why we will only update one account [our main crafters] to the next exp, we have no plans to play in these new lands nor need to till a fix to the UOAM is made there.
     
  23. R Traveler

    R Traveler Babbling Loonie
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    Its possible to hack UOAM, but for price malas or ilshenar.
     
  24. Chrissay_

    Chrissay_ Guest

    From what I've heard is the software creator for UOAM doesn't want to licence it out to anyone. Again correct me if I'm wrong.

    We are trying to include a lot of the features that these programs give to 2d users. One big thing to keep in mind is the Enhanced Client is STILL IN BETA. What that means is it isn't done yet. We are reading the boards and listening to your feedback so we can add the appropriate features to the Enhanced Client.
     
  25. Hildebrand

    Hildebrand Certifiable
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    The new map is nice, but would be better if they added some of the KR funtions too. Like being able to mark dungeons. Currently, I couldn't mark where the entrance to the dungeon was when I was in Fire for example.
    I can't see stairs that well at all.
    I the towns aren't showing the shop names.
    I can't create "custom" symbols as waypoints. KR had a library of symbols.
    Party members are tiny little + signs and don't update in real time very well.

    Ya, needs a lot of work still.
     
  26. The Craftsman

    The Craftsman Lore Master
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    You are correct Chrissay, but I think the poster was asking about the "same kind of software" from another developer and that other software getting "approved status" from UO. He was not asking about UOAM per se.
     
  27. Myna

    Myna Guest

    i have sent feedback while open beta to implement a list in the client where player can add players and as soon both players added each other they could see their positions on the atlas ..... like running the server in UOAM

    i am not a programmer too but for a professional programmer like the one working for EA it cant be a big deal to implement it .... they had the maps already (atlas) they even had the code for parties visible in the atlas, the server is the game server anyway etc.

    but i guess they have more important things to do.

    i also opened 2 threads in the SA/SaA client forum while open beta but nobody seemed interested in the idea
     
  28. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Many guilds and alliances require UOAM... It kinda puts a damper on exploring the enhanced client. I am really enjoying the versatility of the client though.
     
  29. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    For some of us, that isn't quite the point. Some players will be using the classic UO client while others are using the SA client. Those with the SA client will not be able to run UOAM with the rest of the guild.

    Furthermore, I may be willing to change to the SA client at some point, but the lack of a decent map is what will hold me up, as well as others in my guild/alliance. What I am hoping for is an integrated map or even a stand alone map that is similar to UOAM. An integrated map would have to have the ability to show all guild/alliance members.

    I would be happy enough for EA to purchase the rights to UOAM and bring it up to speed. The owner might be willing to do that. As far as I know, he's never been approached by EA. It was my understanding that he would not release the rights to anyone "free of charge". *shrugs*
     
  30. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I for one like using UOAutomap for many things. T-Hunting is a big one.

    Also I have used it for years to do my MIB's. Put in the co-ordinates of all the ones in my bag and go fish them up... was much easier this way and kept me from zig zaging all over endlessly and I was able to better plan out a "route"...

    I like how it tells you what's in each town. Where is the Stables, Inn, Tailor shop etc...

    These things I very much enjoyed..... Heck before they "randomized" the ore and wood I used it to mark things like "frostwood tree" and "Valorite!".... So I could easily refer to the map... rather than carry 500 runebooks.

    Another good thing about UO Automap was I could size it to any size I wanted zoom in and out in anyway I wished...... then double click it and lock it on my desktop.... over my "radar" as it was FAR more useful than the radar map.

    The SA map does NOT resize..... It's one size fits some... but not everyone.... certainly not me...
    The radar map is WAY too small to be of much use. Certainly I can "zoom" on the radar map.. but when it's too small to see anything in the first place zooming out and making things smaller isn't going to help ... and zooming in to where I can actually see what's on the radar doesn't show me much beyond what I can "see" anyway..... so that's of little use.

    It would take me months to plot out all the treasure map locations on the ingame SA map.... Don't much care to do that. UOAM already has them plotted for me.

    So..... this is how I feel about using SA over what I have in 2d now.... can you say huge downgrade?

    Why would I want to cut out half the features... have a paperdoll that's ugly as sin.... to where I hate to look at my own character... and have to learn all over again how to talk and chat in game?

    So beyond losing my UOAM I'd also lose my UOJournal Converter... which I seriously don't want to give up....

    I've tested the workround for it with SA and I must say.... it's a huge downgrade.

    Don't get me wrong there are things I really LOVE about the SA client... The macro thing... the little bars that are way neater than just pulling out those itty bitty little box icons and having those clutter up my screen... I really like the bar things.. they are awesome
    Just wish I could make them much longer.....

    So there are +'s to the new client.... just the -'s far out weigh them.
     
  31. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    I use UOAM it for

    1) T-Hunting,
    2) stealable arties,
    3) SOS (recalling to nearest landmass to place my boat),
    4) mining/lumberjacking (after the randomized resources change, I still use it to mark the grids and the amount of ore/wood each 8x8 grid gives),
    5) champ spawns, tracking of guildmates/party members,
    6) marking special dungeon entrances/exits,
    7) special teleporters (hyloth passage, wisp dungeon teleporters etc),
    8) IDOCs,
    9) Mapping of plot sizes (including using UOAM to compare across multiple shards what can be placed)

    It'd be really nice to allow us to add our own markers. I can live with having to add my markers again.
     
  32. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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    The Atlas they have for the enhanced client needs brought over to the 2d client for sure, with marker, guild, party capabilities.

    Why it has not been done already is beyond me.:coco:
     
  33. hawkeye_pike

    hawkeye_pike Babbling Loonie
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    Is losing UOAM really such a big loss? I only used it when sailing, otherwise I use printouts of landmass maps for orientation.

    If you'd use the Enhanced Client, your problem would be solved. I guess there always will be some minor disadvantages if you stick to the old technology. If I were a developer with limited funds, I would try to avoid having to enhance and update two clients for one game.
     
  34. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    Yes. It is!

    If you play alone or with very few people, then you might not understand where the rest of us, who utilize UOAM, are coming from.

    The new client IS the problem. It will not allow for the use of UOAM, which is much different that the current map feature in the new client, not to mention the fact that not everyone in any given guild/alliance is going to switch clients at once and therefore cannot utilize either map as a whole.

    The addition of an in game or stand alone utility map feature that works similarly to UOAM may be a means to that end.

    What we are attempting to do here is give the dev team some clue as to which features we want/need to make the move over to the new client.
     
  35. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    I understand and agree with what you mean by having limited resources and updating 2 clients.

    See my list of what I use UOAM for.

    I'm just hoping they can code the ability to add a list of my own markers with my own legends into the radars for both the clients. I can work around most of the issues that way. Ohhh, and resizable square radar (the atlas doesn't show npc locations).
     
  36. Amren

    Amren Journeyman
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    I guess that's up to the UOAM developer weather or not they want to support it.

    Personally, I would like all of the .lua commands that the "SA" client supports. Why?

    I wrote a addon for WoW, which also supports .lua to show on the map where guild members were. All it took was that everyone install the same addon. They did and things were great.
     
  37. Gandie

    Gandie Guest

    UOAM plays a very important role for PvP guilds.

    What we need is a world map that we can re-size and have open at all times like UOAM. And you should be able to see guild mates on screen and track them down!!!
     
  38. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    In my humble opinion this will be the biggest obstacle to overcome for general acceptance for guild play. It is not a big deal for solo or small crews, but for those that enjoy larger communities and group activities... It is gonna be a show stopper.
     
  39. Hildebrand

    Hildebrand Certifiable
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    What's so ugly about the paperdoll? I think it looks way cool. They will fix the male's stance they said. Is it that it lacks the surrounding stone outline? If so, yes, it would be nice to get rid of the gold box outline. Have you tried changing your paperdoll's face using the body sculptor?

    Why re-learn how to talk and chat? It's the same way if legacy chat is selected.
     
  40. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    I can learn to live with being ugly. I have experienced that already...But learning to live with a decent guild map... I dunno.
     
  41. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    Chrissay-

    I believe the new map definitely needs a way to track guild mates, a way for guild mates to be "ignored" so to speak, and i personal preferance that i didn't notice, a way to have the atlas open, but resize it like uoam. These things would be fantastic and a big help to the community.
     
  42. Nastia Cross

    Nastia Cross Guest

    If UOAM is no longer being supported by the original developer and this person will not allow anyone else to take over, why hasn't EA seen what an awesome utility this is and develop their own for both the enhanced and classic clients? Not only pvpers can benefit from an updated map like UOAM.
     
  43. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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  44. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    I do not mean to rain on anyone's parade or anything ....

    BUT

    In EverQuest they have a /who command with all kinds of options, GuildName, Level|Level Range, Player Name, Player Class, Zone Name etc.

    Or in short it is relatively easy to find .... players.

    The Rain part :( and I am sorry, but I think this needs to be pointed out.

    Finding some one is a two edged sword.

    Yeah it is great to know where your friends are ....

    BUT

    It is also great to know where your hated enemies are so you can go out of your way to grief them. Yeah EQ like UO has rules against that, if you can prove it and if anyone shows up that can do anything about it other than to tell you to go elsewhere.

    IF the UO Team does enhance this, then I really do hope it is done in such a way that the information can not be used to .... harm people.

    I will say I am no fan of UOAM and do not use it. In one sense it would be easy for me to say, that anything along this line does NOT affect me as I would not consent to be apart of the information block per se. BUT the reality is if it is done in such a way that I am included without my consent and yes I would accept Guild/Alliance/Party as being an implicit consent, then the ability to cause me harm would exist and I would not think this to be a good thing.

    As an addendum, going back to EQ and the novelty Server Discord, a Perma Death Server with open PvP, this /who command could be used to find people to prey on .... easily. If the UO solution allowed such things then trammel players entering felluca may be a Blue Flag/lightning rod. That PKR may have no were to go because of the atlas. I can not bring myself to believe, that if such things were possible, that they would in any sense of the word be good for UO and/or its player base.
     
  45. thelust6

    thelust6 Guest

    I know this might sound silly, is UOAM still in a functional state? Whenever I load it up it presents me with a black screen instead of the default map it's set to; I figured this might be because I don't have any map files - when I installed the software the updater failed to download the map files from tugsoft, I've tried a fair number of times, does anyone know someplace I can download them from? I tried bexlans manual method but unfortunatly it doesn't work either ack!
     
  46. are you using UOA?
     
  47. Merik

    Merik Guest

    ALL OF THEM! Thats my feedback. Now where is my milk? ;)
     
  48. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    That is a damn good question... For Map to work you need Assist. The enhanced client basically does everything assist had going for it.

    I am loving the new client... Once you get past the learning curve, it is excellent. I think it will get even better.

    The quandary is... The folks I play with pretty much expect you to be on map.
    There are so many aspects to this game. Min/max, role playing, strategy... I could go on.

    This is the sand box we choose. We few know why. There are not many games out there like this one. UOAM has gone by the wayside. It has been widely embraced for years. It has been an integral and approved part of this game for years.

    Now it is gone.

    Those that choose to play the "2D" client can cling to what is left of UOAM. I would prefer to move on. You are asking me to to make a hard choice.

    Move ahead into the future of UO. Enjoy the new bells and whistles. Learn and utilize all of the new and amazing stuff Mythic is adding... at the expense of no longer playing with my friends.

    Yes. It does come to that. Ask any major guild... Map is important and usually required. As is voice communication. It is the game we play. The game we choose . Please consider it.

    I did see Chrissays' post on the client forum. That made me feel a bit better. Mythic, if you want this client to succed... This issue must be addressed.
     
  49. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    That is really what it all boils down to. I certainly hope the dev team will give us something comparable to the features that are currently in UOAM.

    Show names of Champ Spawns, locations of teleporters to various areas, names of dungeons, NPC shops, houses, names of various areas, the ability to change player name colors on map and the ability to turn some functions off. I am hoping we will have the ability to see all guild members AND alliance mates on map without having to form party. The ability to turn off the map may be beneficial to some folks for various reasons.

    Those are just a few of the features I'd like to see.
     
  50. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    To me my character and the way he looks are EXTREMELY important.... having him go from looking buff and hansom to looking like he's over the hill, got dunlap and is looking for somewhere to squat... is NOT acceptable... it's not just the stance... and YES I have looked at the "faces" and quite frankly I think they stink.... I don't like any of them.... they are UGLY they don't seem to "fit" right on the paperdoll.... they look "off" somehow and they are by NO means good looking... if that's someones idea of hansom.... they need a new pair of glasses.

    To me my character is a Prince. He should look very good... has that "Indiana Jones" sort of look... The faces from the body sculptor are ugly.

    No they aren't they same.... That stupid little box thing is annoying.... I'm forever looking to the bottom of my screen wonder where the heck the text is... that itty bitty little chat box is WAY too small for me to see the text well and the font stinks.... the color choices are NOT good and I can't set different colors for my Emotes either... and then EVERYONES speech is the same stinking color unlike with 2d where everyone can chose their OWN colors for EMote and Speech making it FAR easier to SEE who's talking, when they are EMOTING and Much easier to find what I said and what someone else said which is VERY important when your in a large meeting and you want to concentrate on seeing one particular persons speech ..... Like at an EM event where I'm trying to figure out what the duce is being said by the EM without having to weed through 400 idiots spamming things like.... "When are you going to give out more Pies!?, Say I didn't get my pie!, Can I have your sword?, My Dragon Roxxors you!... In Vas Mani"..... and other spells over and over and over.... THAT is why I HATE the new client.

    That and the whole thing is rather "fuzzy" looking.