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Sampires need to R.I.P....

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Gunsmoke, May 19, 2013.

  1. Gunsmoke

    Gunsmoke Adventurer

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    i think its time to revamp the vampire emprace spell allowing pretty much enabling a person to solo about 75% of uo creatures. i was just sitting here and thinking of making a pure out warrior for fighting with groups and or fighting a creature using all the abilities a warrior.. and to be honest u cannot make a true old school warrior. anyways keeping on the topic, with all these new changes to uo ppl are looking for warrior to be a warrior and a mage to be a mage.. not saying completely taking it out but lowering the buff u get with it.

    uo creatures and monster was built on exploring and taking on challenges on risk over reward... with sampires its more ummm no risk and more reward. a great example is spawns and peerloss bosses .. i know for a fact those where brought in the game for groups and taking tough fights getting to the end of the encounter.
     
  2. Orgional Farimir

    Orgional Farimir Lore Keeper
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    Way to tick off about 90% of the player base.

    But I agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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  3. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Eh, if you get rid of VE they will just switch to wraith form or whatever the next best thing will be and still be soloing the same stuff just with a bit more difficulty.
     
  4. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

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    Two points to make here:

    Stop with the nerfing. Instead of nerfing VE and sampires, it would make more sense to improve other templates to compete evenly with sampires. It is not necessary to, as Farimir says, tick off 90% of the player base. Make other warrior skills and mage skills evenly compete (although, I think you can make an argument that tamers and certain mage templates can compete evenly with sampires). Make is so we can poison or use bard skills against the high end bosses. Nerfing is not necessary and the wrong way to go.

    Second point - What is wrong with being able to solo "75% of uo creatures"? In fact, why can't we solo anything given the right equipment and right template? With the population of UO today, it's damn difficult to get a group together to take on Slasher or any other of the biguns. At any one time, how many people are actively playing the end game content in UO? It is rare to see anyone going against the peerless, Doom gauntlet, Slasher, the Void pool or Cora in Covetous, and now Exodus is mostly dead. I'm not saying that sampires should be able to solo everything, but more people would enjoy the end game content if other templates were boosted so that one or two people could be effective against them.
     
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  5. The Mule

    The Mule Journeyman
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    I take my "old school" (mace, parry, tactics, focus, anat, heal, resist spells (of course focus really isn't old school, but mana unfortunately plays a role and need it to regen)) warrior and do quite a bit with him when I'm bored of my sampire awesomeness at soloing everything. It takes a long time and I die a lot, but it's not be impossible. I used to do the gauntlet with him and could complete all the rooms. Never was able to do the DF though. I've even did a Mel with him once. Now that was a challenge (I did bring in a second char for rez purposes).


    Instead of complaining how everyone else's template annoys you, focus on your template and go give the hard bosses a try. You'll be amazed on what a little skill it actually takes to learn to time your heals and retreats on the bosses to survive.
     
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  6. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    I had a pure chiv swordsman and could solo almost most bosses. Just the right set up on suit, weps, pots, petals and plenty of mana I could just hit away and cure and heal.

    Never had a sampire. Felt they were overrated.
     
  7. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I use VE, but I don't have bushido, but I can totally picture being pretty capable without VE. I would just switch out necro for healing, and imbue life leech on my weapons.
     
  8. funkymonkey

    funkymonkey Lore Keeper
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    I used a Mystic dexxer ( look up Lord Gods template) always did well killing most things.
     
  9. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Building, outfitting and playing a very effective Sampire takes minimal effort and skill yet produces maximum reward while discouraging almost all types of community playstyle.

    How can you look at this objectively and not think we are going down a bad road when we are quite easily soloing monsters that were specifically created to be fought by groups?

    There is currently another thread where the OP wants to remove peerless timers. Seriously?

    Anyone can solo Unbounds in Shame and make a guaranteed 10 million+ a week with the occasional high end 50-100 million ssi jewel or 20 splinter wep thrown in quite regularly but this is not enough? You all think you should also be able to solo Lady Mel every day so you can open a corpse with a billion items in it and possibly get a cincture or crazy hair dye? Kinda sad :(
     
  10. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Once the sampire and VE is nerfed, what is next? I guess it would be the tamer/mage that I was solo'ing everything on.

    UO is not a group friendly game. The party system has always been busted, the loot system(s) are so messed up.

    ABCs can solo most creatures, as can throwers. Going to nerf them as well?
     
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  11. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    Nusair Nailed it a Sampire is just the easiest template ATM once gone there are other Templates that work also just a little more difficult and most of the "farmers" goldberg is worried about can dual client and overcome ANYTHING to accomplish exactly wht he is talking about on Multiple templates.

    I wouldnt hurt to make VE have diminished returns ???
     
  12. silent

    silent Lore Master
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    Please nerf sampires so I can finally pull the plug on my account.
     
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  13. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    To nerf the sampire means nerfing the Necro and that's 2 templates getting the nerf stick in one shot and there are other templates out there that will do the same job as a sampire. Where does it all stop? The game is losing players hand over foot and its getting harder to get a group to do anything, so lets make it harder for the solo player...yeah right
     
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  14. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Make it harder for the solo player how?

    Playing the character will not be harder one bit. You just wont be able to solo peerless and other extremely high end group monsters.
    As it should be.
     
  15. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    you can solo all these mobs without a Sampire just takes longer on the other templates making it a bit harder.
     
  16. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Well...
    More then a bit harder. It is a lot harder and it should be damn near impossible. They were designed for group fighting and no matter what the UO population, they should stay that way. There is more then enough gold to be made working non-peerless monsters. So if it is not about gold what is it then? It certainly isnt about the action/adventure as it is mind numbingly easy to work a Sampire these days on anything. What are playing for then if you dont wanna try to group up?
     
  17. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    I am curious how someone else's solo play has such a dramatic impact on your play that it requires reprogramming of the game mechanics? If you don't like playing a sampire and prefer sound peerless with a group of friends, get to it... nothing and no one is stopping you.
     
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  18. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    So you think that if i cant get anyone to play with, because they are all off doing real life things, i should just not bother logging in? By your definition the solo player has no place in UO, is that what your saying?
     
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  19. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    You are funny. When did I say it was impacting my play? Please point it out and quote it for me.

    But since you brought it up lets expand on it.

    1) Peerless were designed as a group mechanic. Can you agree on that? Or are we just totally lost here? Shard population has zero bearing on this fact btw.

    2) A group of players waiting outside Lady Mel because a solo Sampire is inside effortlessly working her would be dramatically affecting play style. How would they "get to it" ??
    Pretty sure the solo Sampire would be stopping them in that scenario. Is being completely unable to do her at that time not dramatic enough for you?
     
    #19 Goldberg-Chessy, May 20, 2013
    Last edited: May 20, 2013
  20. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    The problem with getting a group to hunt is well greed. The main problem is the drop of the loot. The chance of getting the uber drop should be based off the number of characters their at death with looting rights. Sure the greedy soloist could run their Sampire with 5 other accounts just getting rights. That is not a bad thing $$$$$$. Sure a soloist could still hunt alone with lower chance at the sweet loot drops. The only real good reason a random group would form into a guild is for the private guild chat for raid calls. All this new armor BS stating with imbuing just support solo hunting more. We don't need a new boss with 50k HP. We needs a group of 7 10k bosses that cross heal. We need cells that players can sit in. A random player in a cell will get picked to control the next boss that is spawned or other uber creature. How fun would it be to get spawned into a Greater Dragon and rampage the country side. Player controlled GD or Balron would have the mind to leave their home. Live control of bosses for players would have their own unique reward system/chance. Live control reward for the player could be based off the number of different players they kill improves their chances. Random checks in on the live control system could catch and insta bann the abusers. Also the town cryers could be of use posting about a rampage creatures location. How much fun could controlling a paragon AW be? Controlled creatures could have their own gate system for those that are not peerless locked in a location. Player controlled Scalis wouldn't be some mindless shore fight. And the boat chase would start for chance at controlled creature unique loot.
     
  21. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Seriously? If you cant do a peerless by yourself you dont want to log in? You cant do one of the other 6 billion medium to high level creatures that were not intended to be done as a group? Pretty sure I even referenced doing Unbounds earlier in thread. You can make millions per week and spike a 50-100 million ssi or splinter item. Thats not good enough for you alone?

    Or is your sense of entitlement so great that you wont play if you cant do everything solo? Lol at that.
     
  22. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    So i must only be able to Solo peerless, and if i dont want to do a peerless I should just sit at luna is that what your saying?

    P.s i don't do peerless and never have done, solo or within a group

    Who promoted you to God to say what i have to do when i log in and what i cant do?

    P.P.s If i deside to go hunting solo its not for gold, i cant hold any more gold than i already do. I got so much gold i had to instal vendors in my castle just to hold all the dammed stuff.

    If i go Solo hunting its because i need an item not for resale but for use on one of my chars
     
    #22 Winker, May 20, 2013
    Last edited: May 20, 2013
  23. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    There are 2 ways to do this.

    1) Nerf everything. Sampires are hardly the only setup that can solo bosses.

    2) Make bosses scale damage to how many people are there, so that if you are solo it does 500 damage a hit. Or limit access to bosses to groups of 5 or more. Or put a time limit on all boss fights, and give a boss 20000000000000000000000000000000000 hit points so that the only way you could kill them in time is with a big group.

    Neither seems that appealing to me, especially since I don't think anything is wrong with the way it is now.

    I think you are also greatly overstating how easy it is to solo high end content. UEV's sure, but they are really not all that tough. They don't even cast or have special attacks. They are simply the modern variation of the Ogre Lord of old. Actually bosses are much harder, and require really good equipment, and experience.

    I really don't see what it matters if a boss is killed by one person or three. I would though, probably make some kind of drop bonus for group play so that its desirable to party up rather than dissuasive.
     
  24. uotrunks

    uotrunks Journeyman
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    So here is my take on it. I am guessing you tried to make a sampire and you failed at it? Now you want it nerfed because every one else can play it right but you? Here is a news flash for you.

    YOU DON'T NEED VAMP FORM TO SOLO........

    If you nerf vamp form guess what I can still solo any thing in game. It's to easy with all the new gear changes and arties the game its self is to easy. Even the anti vamp boss's you can solo them no problem. If people want to solo something why not? A nerf of a template isn't going to stop it. If you want to play with a group that's cool that is your play style. But how can you sit there and crap on some ones play style of soloing something. 99.99% of every thing can be killed by a single person the only thing that I my self have found that cant is event spawned boss's.
     
  25. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

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    SHEESH...

    Winker and Cheesburg... please give it a rest or take it to PM before you both get another thread locked. I think this is a worthwhile conversation to have without all the personal attacks.
     
  26. Lord Lew

    Lord Lew Lore Keeper
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    I can understand why there is a cry to nerf sampires, but lets take a step back for a second.

    With the ever dwindling population, and the need for some alone time, the sampire is a go to template sometimes for me. I have a tamer yes, but sometimes I like to be the tank. I like to go it alone sometimes, seeing how long I can survive the void pool, or how far I can walk into shame without the inevitable OOoooOoo. However I do not think I should be able to solo any major Boss monster in the game. How to address this without hindering other play styles and templates is the true issue.

    When dealing with code so stacked and old as UO is, it can be a daunting task. It would be nice if the main bosses like medusa, Stygian dragon, ect were coded to only work with groups. That or become much much harder when a solo attempt has begun. But there are ways around such code so the time spent is not worth the end result.

    I'm not sure what the answer is, but looking to the past, the nerf stick does not work. It simply moves the template of the time in another direction. So instead of all the pancakes, name calling and general trolling, lets be constructive. Toss out your ideas on how to make the game harder to play for such templates rather than killing them. You might just toss out an idea that the Devs have not considered. As a collective working together we are powerful, bickering at each other makes us weak.
     
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  27. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    Actually if you analyze most of the ML peerless loot mechanics, I would say they were designed to be soloed. When you take in 10 players but know that only one has a chance for the nice drop, what does that make the other 9 but extra damage?
    I regularly do peerless both ways, solo and with a group and both have their advantages. I would not advocate for changing game mechanic just to limit solo play.

    Nerfing sampire templates is not the right answer if you want to promote group play. Fixing the looting and drop rates so that everyone in the encounter has a chance at a drop. Instances corpses, so when you are hunting as part of a party everyone still gets individual loot. I could list more options, but the point is this: hindering solo play is not going to be good for the game.
     
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  28. andyjacksons

    andyjacksons Journeyman

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    sir i have an answer for you you should join siege because you cant insure your gear and you will be pkd so you will lose all the items that make a sampire work there is a genuine risk so we fight things with team work using looted things or imbured but not leet items , i have never enjoyed playing uo since i joined siege as much a normal shard basicly turns you into a god character that death means just a simple click of your body and strait back to the one sided fight
     
  29. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    ^^ this

    My chiv, Bush, garg thrower is more powerful than a sampire. But you just know that if they Nerf the sampire My chiv, Bush, garg thrower is next. Where does It all end? Do we nerf every ones templates so they can only do anything while running with 3 + people?
     
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  30. yars

    yars Lore Keeper
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    nerfing isnt the solution, they should have made the ML bosses like medusa, instanced. last time i checked slasher isnt sampire soloable, and yes i solo alot because i hardly ever see anyone else on to hunt with,bad enough to try to get a weaving circle to lvl 6. stop imposing your playstyle onto mine.
     
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  31. Giggles

    Giggles Forum Administrator
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    I agree with this 100%, and I would like to add..... You can't sit there and make the argument as silly as "these bosses weren't designed to be soloed"... The bosses were designed with a set amount of health and ability's.... With all games there is a different skill level of the player base. You have your more social noob type player, you have your moderate players, and you have your crazy perfectionist "must master this game" players.

    No matter how hard you make an encounter there will be some guy somewhere who will solo it.. Your only punishing the more casual players by making the encounter more impossible, and then cutting down on the amount of special items available to purchase because less and less people will do the encounter.

    Ultima Online does not have 60+ players waiting to do something at Britain bank anymore..... I have an alliance of 10 people to play with but there is many times we are not on at the same time. If I want to put forth the effort to make an expensive suit, to farm the keys, and to kill a peerless on my lunch break then that is my choice and I don't understand how that should affect anyone in this game other then making them envious.... You can sit here and complain that your full group is waiting on one sampire to finish mel.... but I bet you money if he is one of the "must master this game" players, he will finish in twice the time as your group. That has nothing to do with his build, it has to do with his suit and education level of the game.

    This is a sandbox game. Its designed to appease many people with many different play styles. I find doing anything with large groups to be massively painful. I prefer to enjoy the game causally or with a couple friends. Just because you want to group play everything does not mean I do.... Why should I continue to be forced to play Ultima Online by needing a group to do anything? I put forth the effort to learn to play this game to my max ability. I don't feel like I or anyone else should continue to be punished for being "good" at it...

    Instead of complaining about abilities that function... why don't we start asking them to pay attention to the skills that have absolutely no use anymore... Item ID?
     
    #31 Giggles, May 20, 2013
    Last edited: May 20, 2013
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  32. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    You can solo slasher with a sampire. Much easier with ranged though.
     
  33. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Way back in the beginning of UO someone with a big mouth who yelling constantly for a nerf of mages... he was tired of getting his tush killed by pk's using magery.
    Shortly after a "fix" was made mages were so badly done that another group took the yelling for over powering the masses... then came its nerf .... and so on and so forth.
    This has been a feature of the Dev's MO for ages.
    WE need balance. yes but and here comes the but of the post most will agree with. Where do you cut ? That wont over effect other skill templates?
    The Dev back in the early days should never have messed with the skills. Period. There is no going back once the gene is out of the bottle.
    Without knowing it the Dev made a super player.. one many dreamed of having that could be a soloists dream... they didn't need anyone to handle things, or split the rewards of the kill.
    Players are too use to this now.
    Mages got a bad rap... and paid for it in spades... back then.. what of todays player?
    Complain all you want about their ability's but if they are nerfed.. how many will UO loose to the change.
    A friend who over the years did T hunting like myself, was a mage and used the EV's to help. At the time we had unlimited ability to cast them so having 3 or 4 to cover spawns of mean critters was a must. That was nerfed.
    Oh he had done many with friends and liked the company till a change in loot made a difference in his game.. What we now call trash arties back then was big deal and he did t chests for filling out his want list... all in all to make a long story short after multi chests of finding garbage he noticed his friend was always at the chest first or close enough before he got to it. The friend had a bag of junk pieces for each rare in the chests he subed for the real piece that was wanted. With out any seeing him do it. Selling the high end item later in town. My friend caught on. He is back to soloing his hunting. Trust was lost. He is a sampire, andi fear you nerf that he will walk away from UO.
    It's hard to be a Dev.... you have those who want and those who don't and those who couldn't care but don't want change ever.....
    I don't own a sampire.. wouldn't even know what makes one up... but I do know players.. take away a good thing for being alone and you risk loosing a lot of people...
    This is my observation not a rant just so you know I have little to gain ether way...
    Personally I'd have loved to have stopped the Dev who changed it all in the first place... he started an arms race we can never recover from....
     
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  34. Herman

    Herman Seasoned Veteran
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    Maybe nerf slayers that would hurt sampires and whammies much more than fighters with focus healing

    And if tamers get OP then nerf pet dmg also (that would make pvpers happy)

    hehe
     
    #34 Herman, May 20, 2013
    Last edited: May 20, 2013
  35. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    It took me 82 times solo to get my Lavaliere. chiv, Bush, garg thrower FTW
     
  36. Voodoo Bad Mojo

    Voodoo Bad Mojo Lore Master
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    ive never made a sampire.
    bushy macer or plain old warrrior i have a tonne of them.
    but never a sampire.
    never saw the allure, i imbue my weapons with leeches and i can stand toe to toe with any sampire ive met.

    granted i like to play with my guild mates, but im sure if i had to i could solo stuff with him, ive done it before when guild mates have died or whatever.

    the question is, does it really matter if someone can solo a peerless?
    what do i care if someone can.
    its not doing anything to my game play.

    im not sitting on sonoma going "ah crud, some fella just got a crimmy on atl using his sampire.... my game is done now!"

    you wanna mess up a sampire at a event?
    honor the critter before he can, haha
     
  37. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Unless they have a true slayer, or a super slayer and high chiv, then perfection doesn't matter.
     
    #37 Uvtha, May 20, 2013
    Last edited: May 20, 2013
  38. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    High chiv + perfection = slayers don't matter. Seems like it would hurt a non magical warrior more.
     
  39. Marquis de Sade 209

    Marquis de Sade 209 Journeyman
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    I prefer soloing because i personally don't like the drama of guilds and getting groups is not always easy on dead shards. There is nothing wrong with Sampires...
     
  40. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    No you could just make the amount of HLL based off spiritspeak kind of like curse wep, and give diminishing returns every 500 life you leech the percentage you gain back drops by 1% till it hits 0% where it then restarts
     
  41. temu

    temu Lore Keeper
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    I love my sampire. The only thing that I would change is how aggro works. In a large boss fight sometimes I wish we had taunts like true tanks in World of Warcraft. Especially at something like paroxysmus, where I have to chase him around while watching him rip into mages, all the while I'm spamming my AI and lightning strike praying he turns back on me.
     
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  42. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Nerf because it's a powerful solo template? No, not a good enough reason to nerf. Calling for a nerf every time some template appears to be stronger than yours is not a valid reason to nerf anything, some templates are simply better than others for different things. If a particular template bugs you that much, don't use it. However, if something really needs to be done, improving other templates is a much better option.
     
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  43. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    Why do you feel the need to nerf a template, is it encroaching on your play style that much you are asking for it to be made so unusable?
     
  44. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Sampires are mindlessly easy to build and play and they allow you to solo the highest level monsters in the entire game in a short period of time.
    What a shock that people get all crazy when they are talked about lol. Anyone else remember how many people on this board said they were gonna quit UO because their Sampires were destroyed with JOAT changes and necro changes and chiv changes?
    None of those changes did anything to seriously reduce the Sampires effectiveness but everybody was all up in arms. Too funny

    My bad though. I keep forgetting that 98% of the board warriors are not interested in a little skill or excitement. Just mind numbing and repetitive monster bashing far away from other players. Bravo :)
     
  45. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    I think people here need some perspective.

    Solo'ing the top end creatures in UO is nothing new. I used to solo spawns on my necro-bard. I've solo'ed and duo'ed harrowers. And this was all before I made my 1st sampire. Sampires are just the first well publicized method of doing it.

    Saying that peerless are meant to be group functions is a joke. Group functions in UO are a joke. Ultima has a poor group set up, poor group functions. UO is made for single and kind of duo'ing. That's it.

    Without sampires, it used to be near impossible for a character to tank creatures (just look back to all the Greater Dragon hate threads before sampires became the target for hate). Even now, unless you have a bard sitting off to the side doing nothing hoping not to get aggro, it is almost impossible to have a PC tank anything of value. And I really don't like the idea that UO is supposed to be Pets tank all the higher end creatures (which they pretty much still can do) or Kiting Online (ie- you hit the creature a few times, run away, hit it some more, ect). I also feel that it is poor design to set it up so that only ranged attacks and spell users are the only viable classes for high end encounters (like slasher, where it's either pick your tank to run in and die over and over and they don't get loot or everyone running around like a bunch of chickens with their heads cut off).

    Until such a time as they can make PC tanks viable without Vampiric Embrace / Wraith Form-Cursed Weapon - UO needs sampires.

    And I have to disagree with you on the fact that sampires are skill-less templates to play. It depends on how you play (and that fits EVERY template in UO). And yes, those changes did affect the effectiveness of sampires. As it has made the templates/armor set ups more and more tight with less ability to have variables in them (which is kind of sad, because the versatility in UO is something I've always liked).

    To restate my earlier point. There has always been templates that can solo the high end creatures in UO (even the Harrower) before sampires. Remove the sampire, and it goes back to Tamer's Online or overpowered Archers/Throwers (and honestly, the necro throwers are just as abusive as sampires and anything else), or Mages online where EVs tank everything.
     
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  46. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    I don't I was just contributing to the conversation, I could actually care less one way or the other.
     
  47. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    A party of ten should not have the same drop rate as a party of one. Drop rate of sweet loot should of been moonstone style or higher. The introduction of the arty came with Doom. At last got a Spirit Bear Mask drop and went to WBB to be the pimp struck my new prize. There was already 4 players there sporting bear and large range of other Doom drops. It was like Doom had puked out arty in just a few weeks.

    It is rewarding greed that drives the template. And the template after it. Appling skills and use of gear to it's fullest capacity is what the game should be about.

    There is always the Wind factor. More hunting areas with set requirements to enter. A lower Wind area requiring 110 magery to pass with a new boss. Another hew hunting area that requires high vet and lore to pass and at least three pets in tow to enter. Another new hunting area that requires high hide and stealth and damage reduction for the further your away from an opponent.

    Oh and I quit UO if they don't make a sewing kit dye tub. Hate to be left out of making a good threat.
     
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  48. Lord Lew

    Lord Lew Lore Keeper
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    I love a good threat
     
  49. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    I'll quit if they don't make Strombringer and put it in the game.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormbringer
     
  50. silent

    silent Lore Master
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    Goldberg why do you care? Don't tell me it's for the better of the game, there are much bigger issues you could champion if you want to take that noble stance. In fact one would say you've been an abuser of ways to make gold since you seem to be offering millions and millions of gold for various items on the trade boards. You didn't gain that wealth by playing a lowly macer or plain mage. I've played since 97 and I play a sampire and I have maybe 2-300 million to my name so by comparison you've used advantageous templates and methods more than this lowly sampire. Shall we nerf your templates since you obviously have too much stuff?