1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Sampire's, Thrower's best gear artifacts pieces ?

Discussion in 'UO Warrior' started by popps, Mar 9, 2014.

  1. popps

    popps Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    13,445
    Likes Received:
    461
    I understand that there are different schools and opinions on the subject depending on players' different experiences with their templates, but are there high end artifacts which are commonly accepted by most players as a MUST in the gear to make the ultimate sampire, or the ultimate thrower or in general the ultimate template to fight bosses solo ?

    Like for example the tinker legs, conjurer's trinket, crimson cincture, mace and shield glasses and so forth....

    Of course, that would also depend on whether the character is human, gargoyle or others as he pieces would change....

    What would these high end top gear pieces accepted by the vast majority of players be ?

    Your opinion as to what are must top high end pieces for soloing bosses ?
     
  2. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    450
  3. kaio

    kaio Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    213
    I know people will shoot me for saying this, but most valued artie are crimson. If you wanna fight highend it all starts with a crimson..
    M&S glasses are overrated in my book..
     
  4. popps

    popps Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    13,445
    Likes Received:
    461

    Thanks.

    May I ask a few questions ?

    How does one sort out the different alternatives to determine the very best piece for the need ?

    For example, for the head slot you either suggest Mace and Shield Reading Glasses or Prismatic Lenses.

    Now, they have the same HLD but vary quite significantly for the other modifiers. How to tell whether Mace and Shield is better over Prismatic Lenses or viceversa ? I mean Prismatic Lenses has also 25 Damage Increase which is good but the 10 stremgth and 5 dex bonus in mace and shield help quite a bit a dexer who needs to hit strong and fast.... So, which is best to use ?

    Mace and Shield Reading Glasses: 25-10-10-10-10, 30 HLD, 10 STR, 5 DEX.
    Prismatic Lenses: 18-4-7-17-6, 30 HLD, 25 DI, 2 HPR, 3 SR.

    For the Talisman, I get the impression that you tend to value more the Slither over the Conjurer's Trinket but the Slither only offers 10 DCI extra versus the 20 DI, 1 STR and Undead Slayer that the trinket offers (both offer 10 HPI and 2 HPR just alike). Is the 10 DCI that much better than the 20 DI, 1 STR and Undead Slayer to justify the quite higher cost of the slither ? Why so ?

    Slither: 10 HPI, 10 DCI, 2 HPR
    Conjurer's Trinket: Undead Slayer, 10 HCI, 20 DI, 1 STR, 2 HPR

    For the back piece, you seem to prefer the Despicable Quiver but it looks just like the Unforgiven Veil, only one has 5 Archery and the other has 5 Throwing... So the Veil is just as good ?

    Despicable Quiver: 5 HCI, 5 Archery, 5 RPD, 10 Res
    Unforgiven Veil: 5 HCI, 5 Throwing, 5 RPD, 10 Res

    Lastly, when building a suit for a Sampire what is the end goal that the Project needs to reach (as far as modifiers go) for all of the wanted modifiers considered the various CAPs ?

    Also, it is better to start from the miscellanium slots or from the body pieces ?

    Bottom line is, from when does one start when planning the design of a Sampire, Thrower or in general a dexer melee template to solo Bosses ?
    Thanks.
     
  5. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    450
    Mace and Shield is better. But in rare cases when you needn't stats or can't get 100 DI on weapon and jewels you may use Prismatic Lenses.

    Undead Slayer - is mod that makes Conjurer's Trinket Useless in PvM. But if don't plan to fight Reponds you may use it.
    Slither has 10 HPI. It's a very good bonus.

    Despicable Quiver is human/elf only, Unforgiven Veil is gargoyle only. Depending on your race you select which one to use.

    Crimson is better than Tangle.

    Now days it's not a problem to get all main caps (resists, hci, dci, di, hpi). You need to decide what extra mods do you want (mana, regens, skills, casting, ssi).
    For example, for Bushido Paladin it may be SSI on jewels and 2/6 casting, for Classic Paladin it may be MR and 4/6 casting, for Sampire it may be Skills (to get 120 Parry).

    Start with deciding how you will get main caps then calculate free space and decide how to use it.
     
  6. kaio

    kaio Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    213
    What if you dont need HLD on your headgear, is M&S glasses still the best choice ?
    If you dont need +5 dex and 10 hpi, is crimson the best choice ?
    And no im not trying to troll...
    My point is, you use the artie that is best suited for your'e needs.
    Unless you created you're sampire recently, im pretty sure you have atleast 1 other suit you use for something special. (Fx luck suit for shame UBEV..)
     
  7. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    450
    I believe that HLD is the second most important mod after weapon skill. Against tough monsters it gives you more damage than 100 anatomy. And the head slot is the best place to get it (weapon mods is more valuable and there are a lot of mods that you can get only on a weapon). If you have a room on your weapon then get Hit Fatigue.

    A Sampire need 140-150 HP. So you need 25 HPI. I don't know any reason to go without 25 HPI except you are not going to fight tough monsters.

    I don't speak about 'special' suits here. There are a lot of different monsters and therefor a lot of possible special suits.
     
  8. popps

    popps Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    13,445
    Likes Received:
    461

    I understand the many variables, but are there at least a number of modifiers which are best for the template to be worked up to the max CAP possible and then play around with the other modifiers to be changed according to what monsters one is fighting ?

    For example, the fighting skill is my understanding is best to have at 120 and all true skill, not from items (which is best to have for best results ? Swords or fencing or macing ?).
    Then from the above that you say, if one can build up HDL to the max CAP possible then Anatomy is no longer that big of a deal but then what this means ? What would be the best level of Anatomy to be seeked if one can achieve HDL at max CAP ?

    And so on with all of the other skills, stats and modifiers. Just trying to understand if it is possible to have at least a few "fixed" points, no matter what, around which one can then make adjustments and changes to less important skills/stats/modifiers..........
     
  9. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,636
    Likes Received:
    2,090
    I think the pretty standard caps you want to hit are:

    45 HCI
    45 DCI
    100 DI
    As much stamina as you need to swing your weapon of choice at 1.25
    65+ in all resists after VE penalty
    40 LMC on the suit
     
  10. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran CasteoftheForgotten

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2010
    Messages:
    2,636
    Likes Received:
    2,090
    As far as weapon skill, it really is about your preference for weapons.

    I started out with swords and a radiant. As my suit got better and I reach enough stam and SSI I switched over to a double axe. For groups of HARD hitting mobs, the double axe is still my favorite weapon. Double strike made it ideal for single highend critters as well. However, I currently have swords on a stone in favor of mace fighting. I run enough SSI to swing it at max SSI with no swing speed on the weapon freeing up an extra slot to imbue (usually hit area effect) and I can enhance with bloodwood after for extra HPR. I do spawns quiet often and I have found the hit area effect more effective at taking out the larger crowds, though with some of the level 4 mobs you have to be careful because even though you may be doing more damage overall, the damage you are leeching from is lower. For highend single critters I use a waraxe or diamond mace.
     
  11. kaio

    kaio Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    213
    No doubt that HLD is importand...But thats not the same as saying it has to come from M&S glasses..
    HLD does not give a boost to dammage, it lowers the targets defence chance.
    With or without HLD you will still make the same dammage (when you hit that is)
    I have serveral none-imbued 6 modded weapons with HLD over 30, so the HLD from M&S glasses is not really needed, therefor i choose something else like spirit of totem.
    My point is, you need HLD, but it dosent matter how u get it.
    Back to my original statement, witch still stand..
    "You use the artie that is best suited for your'e needs"

    @Merus 20++ hpi that goes with the other stats right ?
     
  12. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    450
    About important CAPs:
    http://stratics.com/community/threads/warriors-guide-part-4-equipment-advices.304336/
    (4.3. Suit Advices)

    About weapon skill selecting:
    http://stratics.com/community/threa...-2-special-moves-and-weapon-selection.303964/

    About "fixed" points:
    http://stratics.com/community/threads/warriors-guide-part-5-pure-warrior-templates.308724/
    (5.2. Templates core)
     
  13. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    450
    Your damage output is your Damage Per Second (DPS) not your Damage Per Hit. For example, with 0 weapons skill you has the same Damage Per Hit but hardly can kill anything stronger than skeletons.
    HLD increases your DPS.

    I believe your 6 modded weapons with HLD doesn't have all slayers you need.
    It doesn't matter where you get HLD but if you get HLD from M&S Glasses you will be able to get more (total) useful mods on your suit.

    "You use the artie that is best suited for your'e needs"
    Yes. But some arties allows you to get more (total) useful mods on your suit than others.
     
  14. popps

    popps Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    13,445
    Likes Received:
    461

    That makes sense but my main problem, is that a player has to start from something when building a suit.....

    My confusion mainly starts from the fact that, as you explained, not all players start from the same one set pieces to then "build around them" the rest of the suit.

    So, the result of this is that some players claim that a suit with Mace & Shield is great while some others claim that a suit with Spirit of the Totem is great...... and this, I think might only generate confusion in not experienced players in the dynamics of the game.

    That is why I am trying to find out whether there is "at least" a few pieces which are "must haves" to make that great suit, to then build around them the rest of the suit. The "fixed" pieces should be always those, for best results, while the other pieces, built around them, could possibly change according to the different needs.

    The question that comes next then, is whether there are such "fixed pieces" which should be a "must have" for that great suit and which would they be ! Perhaps the Animated Legs of the Tinker ? Perhaps the Slither ? Perhaps the Conjurer's Trinket ? Perhaps else ?

    So far, I have not been able to find a finite answer on this....
     
  15. popps

    popps Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    13,445
    Likes Received:
    461
    Thank you very much for pointing to the speficic sections of the sticky, I will read through them again more carefully to try understand better the dynamics.

    One question about the Honoring for Perfection, for the Classic Client Users with UOAssist, what would be a well working Honor Macro ? And what about those using the Enhanced Client ? Any help from Pinco's UIs ?

    I am asking, because I have read that some prefer to tie them to the nearest target but this may cause problems with a crowd of foes, others prefer to have a macro set to pull up the enemy paperdoll and then honor, others say that sometimes their macro do not work before the fight engages and so Perfection does not work well, not timely....

    Question is, is there a macro that works better than others when it comes to Honoring and Perfection ?


     
  16. popps

    popps Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    13,445
    Likes Received:
    461

    Sorry, bear with me here, just trying to understand what is most important to seek, according to the game dynamics...

    Now, once agreed that HLD is a must to have, CorwinXX says it would be preferable to have it on Mace & Shield because that would make it possible "to get more (total) usefull mods on the suit".
    Kaio, instead, while agreeing that HLD is a "must have", says that having it on a weapon is great just the same and as the head piece he preferred Spirit of the Totem.

    Now, I have no clue who, among CorwinXX and Kaio is more right but I just want to try to see whether I have understood the underlying logic for the modifiers choices.

    Mace & Shield Glasses comes, along with overall better resistances than the Spirit of the Totem, with HLD 30%, STR 10 and DEX 5. Spirit of the Totem instead, comes with lesser resistances and STR 20, RPD 15% and HCI 15%.

    I would imagine, that if Mace & Shield offers better resistances than Spirit of the Totem, this means that the suit pieces will then need to be "less tweaked" to be able to reach 70+ overall resistances across the board. But then we look at the STR 20, RPD 15% and HCI 15% that Spirit of the Totem sports which is not only twice as much the STR that Mace & Shield offers, but also a convenient Reflect Physical Damage 15% AND a very convenient Hit Chance Increase 15% which Mace & Shield does not have. Do they make it up for the lack of the 30% HLD that Mace & Shield offers when one can have that on the Weapon ?

    I do not have a finite answer, I am just starting to learn how it all works so have no clue.

    Can any of you, knowledged about how it all works, say which is better and, most importantly, explain in details "why" so that other players not as well knowledged can finally understand what is the underlying logical thinking process that determines "how to" pick the right and best pieces for a suit ?

    Also, my understanding is that HLD can be found either on glasses (up to 30%) or on weapons (up to 50%).

    If the target has a "cumulative Defense Chance Increase" of 70% or more they will nullify any and all HLD hit thus making the investment in this modifier a total waste (I am not sure how this can even be possible since it was my understanding that DCI was capped at 45%....perhaps cumulative means from modifiers PLUS from skills ?).

    Question, is there any monster which has a cumulative DCI of 70%+ thus making the investment of modifiers in HLD a total waste when fighting this monster ?

    If not, then why since HLD is so important not have it both on the glasses and on the weapon for a total 80% (my understanding is that HLD has no CAP) ?

    Since Defense Chance Increase against which HLD is matched for the end result hit is Capped at 45% (but apparently with a "cumulative" effect which I have no idea what it means it can go higher...), I assume that having HLD set at 80% (30% from glasses and 50% from weapon) may result in more hitting and thus more life leeched back....

    The one thing that I do not know, is what the formula for HLD visits DCI is. Therefore, I am unable to make up my mind whether HLD 80% vs. DCI 45% is a whole lot better than HLD 30% (or 50%) vs. DCI 45%. Anyone has this answer ?

    Thanks a whole lot for the clarification.
     
    #16 popps, Mar 11, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2014
  17. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    450
    Pinco's UI contains commands for all virtues. The macro may look like: "Honor, Wait for Target, Target Current[, Attack Current]".
    I prefer to select a target using mouse or special buttons (like Tab) then use macros that include "do something with the current target" commands (like Target Current, Attack Current, etc).
    I usually don't use honor when WW.

    Spirit of the Totem was a popular way to get 45 HCI before reforging came. But now there are better ways to get 45 HCI.
    To compensate low resistances on the Totem you should sacrifice something like 16 MI on your armor pieces. And you can't just "add" HLD on your weapon - you must replace some useful mod with it.

    70% DCI trick used to work in PvP only and it was fixed few years ago.

    Usually 30 HLD is enough to keep the effect on so there is no much difference between 80% and 30% HLD (btw 30% HLD + 50% HLD = 65% HLD).
    A successful hit with such a weapon lowers the defense rating of the target by a flat 25 percentage points for 8 seconds (defense chance increase can be a negative number, in which case it is a reduction in defense).
    Multiple or simultaneous hits with HLD do not lower the target's defense any lower than 25%. However, the 8 second duration timer will reset with each successful hit.
    http://stratics.com/community/threads/warriors-guide-part-1-general-information.303963/ (1.1.1. Hit Chance)

    There is no "fixed pieces" or "must have" artifacts. You can make your suit without artifacts or based on cheap artifacts. In this case your suit will be not so good but still good enough for a lot of tasks.
     
    Barry Gibb likes this.
  18. kaio

    kaio Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    213
    Yes Corwin HLD can increses youre overall DPS if you _fight tough monsters_.. But it only apply to tough monsters, and are therefor not a dammage modifier like DI, atact, EOO honor etc etc..

    No i dont have all superslayer in 6 modded versions. I dont see what this have todo with anything...Its quite possible to have all superslayer in 5modded imbued versions where one of the
    mods is HLD. We are in 2014..with reforge+imbuing...its not that hard to overcome the need for M&S, and u dont need to loose mods.

    I'm Pretty sure M&S is a great help when making suits. But i doubt its the best regarding getting most mods. (it actually depends, on the other item that has HLD..now dosent it ? )

    It is possible to get all superslayers in 6++ modded versions with verite/val hammers...i dont think we have seen it all yet.
     
  19. kaio

    kaio Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    213
    @popps I think you need to look at whats needed in another way.

    You wanna fight X monster. You make "basic" sampire.

    You determen you need 45 HCI, 45 DCI, 45LMC, XX mi, XX si, 25 hpi, 100 DI

    Then you ask yourself, how do i get the desired mods ?
    And this is where the "what arties are needed" comes into play.

    Lets play with some commen setups.
    Assuming 15hci, 15dci, 20 di on both ring and brac. (still some room left)
    Also assuming +40 DI from weapon..this is very basic.
    So now we have
    30 hci, 30 dci, 80 DI.
    We need to find the remaining points somewhere.

    OMG OMG you think, i wanna use slither, its the best talisman in the game !!!!11!!!!one
    Lets use it, we want best items :)

    So now we have
    1)
    30 hci, 40 dci, 80 DI.
    +10 HPI

    But hey wait a minute...That conjur trinket is pretty awesome too !!!
    Lets try using that instead..
    that gives us..

    2)
    40 hci, 30 dci, 100 DI.
    Free slayer to all undead yay..

    (i could do this lineup for all the talisman...but thats up to u..)

    Hmm both are pretty awesome...what to choose, what to choose ??

    If you choose nr 1.
    New questions arise.
    How do we get 20 DI ?
    How do we get +5 dci ?
    How do we get +15 hci ?

    If you choose nr 2.
    How do we get +5 hci ?
    How do we get +15 dci ?
    We got 100 DI yay


    As you can see, every time you choose, there are comming new questions.
    After you have tried this a few times, you will come to one conclution or the other.
    My experience is that getting DCI from items are easiere than getting HCI.
    Getting DI usually comes from ring/brac, talisman, weapon. Can also come from other sources like tinker legs, woodlan armor.

    In this example most would probberly pick choice nr 2.
    There is awhole lot more to it, than just this...

    Its all about choices...And those choices determens what arties that are best for our needs.

    One of my suits includes crimson cinture, M&S, desp quiver, conjur trinket/robe. i also have a suit with spirit of totem, and a new suit using prismatic lenses.
    Stat wise there arent must difference between my M&S glasses suit and my spirit of totem suit.

    So to answer your'e question...what determens what piece you choose for your'e suit..
    The answer is. the previous piece, determens the next piece based on youre goal, and wallet :)
     
    azmodanb likes this.
  20. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    450
    Yes, you needn't HLD if you are going to fight something that has 86 wrestling or lower.

    When one of 5 mods is HLD it means that you have only 3 weapon specific mods while you could have 4.

    Just show me a suit with the totem and I tell you how you could get more mods using the glasses. Using the totem is like leaving the robe slot empty - you still can get a good suit but you could get better suit.

    Yes it's possible. But it's less real than getting a suit consisting of 1000+ intensity legendary (shame loot) artifacts on each slot.
     
  21. kaio

    kaio Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    213
    How did you come up with the 86 wrestling ?

    Lets Assume im using this weapon
    50 HLD
    50 HLA
    40 DI
    96 HML
    50 HSL
    This weapon actually exists and i use it to kill champs. Its reforged, then imbued..and its "only" 5 modded...
    Please explain to me how HLD on M&S would benefit me ?
     
  22. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    450
    You can find the formula in the part 1 of my guide. Or you can enter values here: http://uo.stratics.com/content/arms-armor/combat.php#hitchance

    M&S allows you to add slayer to your weapon (instead of HLD).
    With such weapon you completely relay on Perfection bonus. Without it your damage is low. Low damage => low mana leach => not enough mana to chain AI/DS => even less damage => little life leached => dead sampire.

    There are situations when you can't honor your opponents:
    - monster is damaged (for example, by RPD on the totem)
    - monster has spend some mana (most caster monsters do it as soon as they attacked you)
    - monster is flying (failed to find a path)
    - someone else honored it
    - you fight two monsters on the same time using Momentum Strike

    Even when you got honor you need 7+ swings to get damage bonus. During this time you leach little life. If monster hit hard you get in troubles. And there are situations when you can't keep the bonus at 67+ (due to misses and/or blocks).

    Take this weapon and kill Fend. Then ask Duncan Drake to show you how fast he kills Fend using his weapon with SuperSlayer.

    I know you can do a spawn with such weapon. Peoples solo'ed spawns even before imbuing came. But with good weapon/suit you can do it faster.
     
  23. kaio

    kaio Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    213
    The weapon was just an example of a 5 modded weapon..It could just as well have been a weapon with slayer on it, or a 6++ modded weapon..
    For spawns, you would use spawning weapons, the one example i showed, was/is not a spawner weapon. Its a champ killer weapon, as i wrote earliere.

    There is also situations, where the said monster dosent have slayer vulnabilitie.. In those situations you will still use M&S glasses, and adds some useless slayer on your weapon,
    just because you can.... As i tried to explain earliere, different setup for different goals.

    Most in here roll with a luck suit in one way or the other when killing Unbound energy vortexes..
    I'm no exception, I have a luck suit too for my sampire.
    I dont use M&S glasses on that suit, coz i want luck (the whole point of the suit)
    I can still kill the vortex in like 4..5min, depends on hard it is to drag it to a secure location.

    I doubt i would be able to kill the vortex faster using M&S glasses...Even if i could, it would't be the desired goal.

    I have no idea who Fend is...
     
  24. Duncan Drake

    Duncan Drake Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    945
    Likes Received:
    176
    He means Rend.

    Hld is a great thing when fighting monster with high wrestling. Hitting it more often means more damage.

    I have a luck suit too for killing uevs. But i use my dmg equipment til the last few blows, then switch the whole equipment with my luck suit (thx to the ec) and then do the last few hits til the uev is dead. Goes way faster than using the luck suit for the whole fight and the outcome is the same because luck is applied with the killing blow.

    What i dont understand why put a useless slayer on the weapon when fighting a monster with no slayer vulnerability? You can put hll on it. Even a a sampire could use some extra life leech when fighting hard hitting monsters.
     
  25. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    450
    I don't use M&S on my luck suit. It takes me 3-4 minutes (duration of EOO at 95 Chivalry). My weapon - Leafblade has low base damage. My Melee Archer kills UEV much faster.
    UEV is a weak monsters and a luck suit - is special suit when general effectiveness is less important than luck value.

    When you needn't slayer you can add HLA and/or HFat to your weapon. This makes your char more powerful. Of course you needn't to be more powerful if you don't plan to fight something big.
    I see that it's a champion weapon (because it hasn't WW). But I prefer to use the same suit for all monsters (but different weapons). I don't like idea to have few different suit for different situations. So if I don't use M&S against bosses then I don't have it when I fight other monsters (and vise versa).

    Try to kill Rend in Labyrinth with your weapon and tell us how long it took.
     
  26. kaio

    kaio Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    213
    I'm glad someone did catch my eye-opener :) The useless slayer thing on weapon, was a bit irony, just to prove corwin wrong in his assumptation that everything u need to fight, u must use a slayer, and u must always have M&S glasses for the HLD. The weapon in question could just as well have been a ww weapon, its not always desired to have hit area effect on those.
    I could add HLL on a weapon, instead of HLD, and get HLD from M&S or prismatic, i just never found it nessecary todo so.

    Alot of people actually swap suit, just before the UBEV is killed, not a bad thing at all :) (i swap to luck sword, shield before killing blow)

    After realized you only needed energy resist, I made my luck-suit have 70ish energy resist.
    I use a hatchet with thise mods for the killing
    Air element slayer,DI,HLD,HML,HSL. i use a hatchet. My dammage is around 180ish pr AI.
    And thise arties.
    Luck juwels, cunjur trinket, desp quiver, crimson, luck 300 gorget,corgul sash, luck 140 robe.

    Sampire i use have thise skills.. 120 sword, 120 tact, 100 ana, 100 parry, 100 bush,80 chiv,100 necro.
    I could optimize the skills abit, but i use this sampire for other stuff too. (fx chiv is not really needed)

    According to old sampire lore (You can search old posts here on stratics)
    A sampire needs, thise leeches HML,HSL on his weapon ...everything else is just a bonus, and not needed.
    I think this still holds water, if you need HLL,HFS, or something else, you must be doing something wrong.
    Just to clearify it, a slayer is not a leech :)
     
  27. kaio

    kaio Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    213
    I think you mix things up a bit..
    There is Need to have, and nice to have. (darn now i sound like my old boss..lol)
    HLA is needed very rearly, HML is fx Always needed (unless you dont plan on using any or very little spells and or special moves)

    I think people tent to over complicated thing.

    The weapon in question is not made for killing Rend, i like the name Fend better hehe :)
    Last time i killed Rend, i used a weapon with feint. Dont think there was a slayer on it. (Was along time ago)
     
  28. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    450
    kaio
    It seems you just can't read what I write.

    I never wrote that you must to have something. Oppositely I wrote that people solo'ed spawns even before imbuing came.
    I gave advice what to use to be more effective. You may kill champions without M&S or any other artifact. But without M&S you can't kill as fast as with M&S.

    Tell me please why do you reforge and imbue your sword? You can kill champions with an exceptional sword (40 DI is the only mod). As you said above it's a reason to don't reforge/imbue your weapon.
     
  29. kaio

    kaio Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    213
    @CorwinXX I can read just fine :) Maby you should just read the post you just posted...Again you state that you cant kill anything as fast without M&S. This implies, The NEED
    for a specific item. I do not agree with you on this one, and iv'e given you serveral examples where M&S is not needed..

    I'm pretty amazed that a player with your'e skillset and knowledge, wears a general purpose suit.
    You talk alot about loosing mods, this is exacly what you will do when you make something general.

    Im not exacly sure i understand you're question :(
    If you wan't to know how i make my weapons...
    just ask, its no secret.
     
  30. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    450
    All your examples are hypothetical. They have no any relation to practice. They look like:
    - "I am not going to fight something harder than skeleton"
    - "I was lucky to get very good item (there is no another such item on the whole shard) and want to make my suit around it"
    - "I was too lazy to reforge HCI on armor pieces so I need HCI on my helm"
    and so on

    Please give me a real example. Post here a PvM suit that doesn't include M&S/Slither/Crimson. It should be obvious that when you need 190 luck, 10 stamina, etc on the head slot you can't use M&S so it must not be a luck suit, etc.
     
  31. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    450
    I don't like the idea of using special suits.
    Usually effect is low without adjusting skills.
    I also don't like to spend much time to preparing to a raid.

    Although my main char uses 20 different weapons.
     
  32. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    450
    My questions was "why" and not "how". Why you imbue 5 mods on your weapon - you could go with 1-2 mods and still be able to kill monsters.

    I think loosing mods via having free room on your weapon looks stupid for you... while loosing mods via having The Totem on you head doesn't.
     
  33. kaio

    kaio Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    213
    I think you are beeing silly now.
    I already explained whats NEEDED, and whats NICE to have.
    Use this to obtain your'e goal, and you dont waste any mods.
    A mod not needed is not wasted.
    You're not really bringing anything new to the table.
     
  34. kaio

    kaio Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    213
    According to yourself, loosing a mod makes a person looks stupid..
    Then this would make you look stupid, coz no matter how you try and cut this cake, you will eventually loose mods, coz youre suit arent optimized for fighting everything.
     
  35. kaio

    kaio Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    213
    I like it when people assume alot :)
    Not sure where you get all that information from.
    None of it is true.
    The skeleton thing, is something u made up.
    I have many weapons, where HLD arent needed from M&S glasses...I already stated this. (Serveral times)

    In all fairness i use crimson in all my suits. I did however build a suit around spirit of totem+ tangle along time ago i did use it to solo spawns. but then they nerfed lightning strike
    And i had to make a new suit :( I gave the suit away to some upcomming sampire on my home shard...He was thrilled :)
    I have never made any warrior class suit including a slither.

    If im not mistaked you are on europa shard, just like me..
    Go to destard and checkout that Ed ..... guy, he has quite some success rolling with a spirit of totem..( And his vendor is always fully stocked with PS'es replicas etc etc)

    I can post his full name in pm if you dont know who he is.

    He's not exacly on my friends list, but i tink he's a darn good sampire. Go check him out, could be an eye-opener for you.

    I love reforging, and i reforge alot. My latest sampire suit i reforged DCI, so ya call me lazy :(
     
  36. kRUXCg7

    kRUXCg7 Sage

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    620
    Likes Received:
    227
    Noone of you is lazy! I am lazy. So... Who's going to build me a suit or two? :love:

    (I don't really know much about those intrinsics you lovebirds were talking about, but if it helps... I have a crimson, a tangle, some ingots and a sleeping hamster:danceb:)
     
  37. Duncan Drake

    Duncan Drake Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    945
    Likes Received:
    176
    Your exchange of blows is interesting but i think you two could make a break now. There doesnt seem to be a conclusion in the near future.

    Everyone can play this game, his character as he wishes. If one wants to add hld to his weapon or use mace and shield glasses whatever. It all depends on how he plays his character what build he or she has and if one is satisfied with this.

    E.g. I for myself like doing the semidar spawn.... As a male character.... Using polimorph. So instead of having 120 anatomy i do it with 53 anatomy and 67 magery. Sure many would say what a waste of skill points, just play a female character but no. I like it as it is and i have no problems bursting away that nasty succubus. But its probably not the best way.

    For my gear i do use the mace and shield glasses. Just because my bushido paladin template works best that way (i have no room for additional properties on my weapon). If i had a template where i could put hld on the weapon i might give it a try and see what might be better. I think the sampiredin template might work here but i dont think ill ever change my existing template.
     
  38. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    450
    Post here a real example of a character that needn't HLD and a suit he could use.

    Note:
    It needn't to be a real existing suit. Just list here all armor pieces, artifacts, jewels, weapons.
    It should be a solo PvM character.
     
  39. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    450
    Post here a real example of a character that use special suits. This means post:
    - the character's template
    - a main suit he could use
    - a special suit he could use and a list of places where to use it

    Show us practical advantages of using special suits.

    Note:
    It needn't to be a real existing suits. Just list here all armor pieces, artifacts, jewels, weapons.
    It should be a solo PvM character.
     
  40. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    450
    Post here a real example of a character that use those weapons. This means post:
    - the character's template
    - the full list of weapons he uses
    - a suit he uses and a list of places where he fights

    Show us practical advantages of getting HLD from weapon slot.

    Note:
    It needn't to be a real existing suits. Just list here all armor pieces, artifacts, jewels, weapons.
    It should be a solo PvM character.
     
  41. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    450
    I have sold my old poor luck suit to a new player for symbolic price 500k (6 armor pieces, 2 jewels, 1 weapon, 1 shield). He was thrilled. How does it concern our discussion?

    Post here a suit that don't use a slither.

    Note:
    It needn't to be a real existing suits. Just list here all armor pieces, artifacts, jewels, weapons.
    It should be a solo PvM character.
     
  42. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    450
    I have already written two times that you can do well without M&S/Slither/Crimson. But it doesn't mean that you can't do even better would you used those artifacts.

    Post here a suit that use The Totem.

    I want to compare stats that you can get with the totem and stats that you can get with M&S.

    Note:
    It needn't to be a real existing suits. Just list here all armor pieces, artifacts, jewels, weapons.
    It should be a solo PvM character.
     
  43. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    450
    Post here a real example of a suit without reforged HCI (with reforged DCI).

    Note:
    It needn't to be a real existing suits. Just list here all armor pieces, artifacts, jewels, weapons.
    It should be a solo PvM character.
     
  44. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    450
    Yes, I think so. This is why I suggest to replace words with numbers. Let he post suits he designed and I will show him how much mods he lost.
     
  45. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    450
    There are a lot of reasons to don't use M&S/Slither/Crimson/etc. The most simple is when you haven't enough gold. Another popular reason is RP. For example, some people didn't used M&S because they don't like how the glasses looks. I understand this arguments. I myself don't use LT sash and Int boots although they are better than Corgul's sash and resist boots. But I understand that I lose effectiveness. It means that for me my personal reasons is more important than small effectiveness I lose.

    It's not a Formula 1. You needn't to go the most effective way. You should go the way you like. So I understand when someone tell me he goes with 67 magery for polimorph. But I wouldn't agree if someone told me that 67 magery is the best way to go.
     
    #45 CorwinXX, Mar 16, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2014
    kRUXCg7 and Duncan Drake like this.
  46. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    450
    PM what kind of suit do you want (your template), what artifacts do you have and how much gold are you going to spend.
     
    kRUXCg7 likes this.
  47. kRUXCg7

    kRUXCg7 Sage

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    620
    Likes Received:
    227
    That is too nice, thank you. My real point was that I am impressed by people like you with all the passion, how you help other players understand suit building and that you let people know there is a helping hand out there if you need one. About me... Actually I threw together all my artifacts, imbued some armour pieces until they were "full" and used some dye. As long as everything still got some durability left... I am fine :cool:. I gave up higher goals. Two sleeping hamsters make awesome slippers.

    In simple words: You (*) are awesome.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    (*) "You" = "people who build suits"
     
  48. popps

    popps Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    13,445
    Likes Received:
    461

    Yes, I also thank wholeheartedly CorwinXX as well as all other UO players who take their time to help other players better understand the game because Ultima Online is a very very complex game, if not the most complex game out there and, especially all of the fighting dynamics and the crafting world of modifiers with imbuing, reforging, refinement, would be an uphill learning process without help now and then from other players who better know how it all works. And also thank you to Stratics for offering us a community with these Forums where this knowledge sharing about the game we all so much enjoy to play can take place !!!

    So, thank you very very much again for all of your kind help !!
     
  49. kaio

    kaio Sage
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2008
    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    213
    So corwinX, how did it go ? Did u checkout the guy in destard ?
    I'm pretty sure, when you have checkout this guy, 99% of your answers will be answered.
    Looks like you quoted me in 6 posts, Maby you could make just 1 post, and collect all the questions in 1 ?

    Think about this for awhile..
    Talisman +10 HCI.
    Quiver +5 HCI.
    Ring +15 HCI
    Brac +15 HCI

    If a person choose todo this, why on earth would he reforge HCI elsewhere on his suit. Here the headgear dosent matter, except it would be a silly to choose to roll with one that has HCI on it.

    You floss out 300 statement about alot. In this case choosing the HCI talisman over slither,is not about having enough cash, or the looks of it.
    Wether to reforge HCI on suit, has nothing todo with beeing lazy (Its not alwasy needed).

    Don't forget there is 2 versions of this talisman, one with and one without slayer.
     
  50. CorwinXX

    CorwinXX Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    450
    There is no sense to answer because you is not able to understand what I write. So just post here any suit so we could compare numbers. May be this way you will be able to understand that one suit may be better than other.

    I have crafted a lot of suits. Often customers wanted to use specific artifacts for different reasons (I think I have used at least 7 different artifacts on a head slot and at least 7 different talismans). So I know a lot of ways to maximize main warrior mods (the way you post is not new for me). But I also know that some of them always gives you better results than others. You is not able to understand this. So let numbers speak. Post your suit and I will show you the difference.

    Yes, I know about faction artifacts and crafted few suits that used them. But there are some limitations on using faction artifacts so PvM characters usually can't use them.