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Save the Greater Dragon...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Mook Chessy, Oct 20, 2008.

  1. Mook Chessy

    Mook Chessy Certifiable
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    Let me start this post by saying that I play a fencer. There is nothing wrong with the greater dragon, the problem comes in when you combine Ninja!

    It is after all a 5 slot pet and if you needed to be on foot to command one I'm sure the we would see a drastic drop off in greater dragons involved in pvp.

    This would also leave the PVM aspect basicly unchanged and for the few PVMers with Ninja, be happy you had the luxury of mount speed along with your GD for this long!

    Anyone who has been playing UO long enough knows that as soon as over 1/2 the player base goes to any specific template it must be overpowered, can you say Bokuto?

    This is a change that must come fast as almost anyone not playing a tamer is in the process of making one, at this point we have more tamers then people in law school....jk!
     
  2. Tom_Builder

    Tom_Builder Slightly Crazed
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    I have a tamer with real skills of 120 tame/120 lore/120 vet. I earned my skills the hard way, one bull at a time.

    I would hate to see a nerf to any of my pets in pvm. But pvp should have a damage limit for all classes, including the damage output of pets. To balance pvp there has to be.

    If anyone class can overpower another then it should be nerfed. But the nerf shouldnt affect pvm.

    The one thing that I worry about with any nerf is the devs like to go overboard. They can turn the most powerful beast into a pussycat.

    Tom
     
  3. Fox (Europa)

    Fox (Europa) Guest

    I don't think anyone thinks GDs were a good idea. They weren't needed as tamers were already the top dogs for PvM and the subject of mass complaints in PvP. So introducing another even stronger pet smacked of stupidity on the part of the dev team.

    Chances that the devs give a damn and will fix them: zero.

    Fox
     
  4. Holise

    Holise Guest

    stop nerfing and make it easy bring back the over power bok..bring back the wand mages bring back precasting,bring back parring with no 80 dex requirement bring back what dev made us then taking them away... lets say...everyone quit this lame game...
     
  5. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Remember 2 things.

    1. There are other pets beside the greater dragon.
    2. Other players are just as entitled to enjoy PvP as the tamer.

    In other words, the greater dragon is a very powerful pet, one I'm surprised we were given. We should be considerate towards others and realise that these critters weren't intended for PvP and do a stack of damage. They need to be changed in some way, or some other change needs to be made to tamers, to ensure they're not too overpowered.

    Even far from the PvP fields, these are strong pets, I don't think we should take that for granted.

    The only thing that drives me nuts about greater dragons and changes to taming is that EA seem to be dithering and stalling. I want to know what is changing and when, because we can't guess accurately here, and the anti tamer sentiment is only growing.

    Wenchy
     
  6. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Perhaps when The Six return, many tamers will insist on trying to use their greater dragons and will lose them. Problem solved, at least temporarily.
     
  7. K'torr

    K'torr Guest

    I'd say make GDs untameable, and downgrade all current tamed GDs to normal dragon levels. And yes, I do have a Greater Dragon.
     
  8. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    a better idea: why dont delete all tamer chars or why dont remove the pvm at all? -.-

    GD is overpower in pvp, but in pvm is not overpower at all... unless you hunting zombie and skeletons...
     
  9. Sargon

    Sargon Seasoned Veteran
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    That all depends on your definition of "overpowered". If you think PvM should be easy, then no they aren't overpowered at all.
     
  10. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    ok, classic uo day:
    me and my friend we decide to try to do rikktor, all goes right until drake start to spawn, at this time I cant heal because I'm under attack and the dragon still alone surrounded by monsters. In a situation like that, it don't resist more than 5 minutes, because it has not enough mana for heal-self, can't escape and die.

    If the GD is overpower, in a situation like that, it must start to auto-heal and kill everything without die at all, because the enimies are only stupid drakes and ophidian mages...

    a cu in the same situation die in less than 30 seconds... and I dont consider the others pet because they are too weak in this situation...
     
  11. Divster

    Divster Guest

    Wow this post is actually worse than the omg my sammy is gonna be useless threads (oh and yes I do have both a sammy and a tamer)
     
  12. Mook Chessy

    Mook Chessy Certifiable
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    For those you think a GD is way overpowered in PVM go do a Lady Mel and watch how they die. Most GD have less the 60 cold and when she withers it wrecks them!

    I am fine with them for PVM, they should be the toughest pet on the block, only one thing, make sure the person commanding the pet is on foot!
     
  13. Mook Chessy

    Mook Chessy Certifiable
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    Are you saying that people use a sammy to PVP? One has nothing to do with another, save when peps like you try to lump all things together.
     
  14. Tycolby

    Tycolby Guest

    Take the Tamer out of PvP. Make it so pets cant target ppl. Plus ppl cant attack pets or use disco or peace or provo on pets. Cant not target that target. Pets still can be used in champs but not to attack others.
     
  15. Divster

    Divster Guest

    No I mistyped what I actually meant was Sampire, my bad, and people sure do use that in pvp, but even if not the point I was making was that a nerf gets made in one field, then threatened in another but oh no surely you can't nerf our class as well posts come springing up.
     
  16. Salty Pete

    Salty Pete Guest

    Woah... did I see the magic words in this thread???

    bRiNG bAcK pReCaSTinG BiaTchEs!!!!
     
  17. Divster

    Divster Guest

    wow do you see the hypocrisy in that statement :D
     
  18. Splup

    Splup Guest

    I can keep my friends archertamers GD healed against Lady Mel alone with my necromage. So we do mels with 2 players...
     
  19. Skwiz

    Skwiz Guest

    Hate to disagree with ya here bro.. but ive done my share of mels Before and after dragons were put in.. Meaning ive used both a Dog and a Dragon

    and the dragon is byfar completely easy mode.. The dog could do mel just fine, but i used 2 Xhealing mages....

    with the Dragon.. I only need 1 Necromage in a No MR 40% LMC suit in Lich. Keeping it up without going past half mana for 100% Of the mel
     
  20. Myphsar

    Myphsar Lore Keeper
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    Agreed,
     
  21. Hmmmmmmmm do I see a publish 16 all over again? This has seemed to be the common way that things go in this game. Uh oh, tamers can control too many dragons at once, we gotta nerf that. Uh oh, tamers spend too much skill and don't have strong enough creatures, let's make a tougher dragon for them. Uh oh, this dragon is too tuff, we better make it as weak as a regular dragon so we are back to square one again.

    Just leave things alone. Tamers spend a lot more effort than any other char in game to get their skills.

    At some point people need to realize that different skills have different benefits, and certain skills should be stronger than others. There never has been and there never will be a full balance.

    People need to learn to adjust their game play to adapt to new changes.

    Instead of nerfing the greater dragon, they should have not even added it to the game. A dragon should be one of the strongest creatures in the game, yet it was nerfed and then replaced with a Greater Dragon to try and make up for the original nerf years ago. It makes absolutely no sense to take one step forward and five steps back on a regular basis. That is what has gone on for ages in this game.

    I would rather see them do away with greaters and fix regular dragons back to how they used to be.

    Or I have another idea, let's nerf this Greater Dragon, and then in a couple years we'll add a Greater Greater Dragon. Yeah let's do that!

    Lord knows we don't want to upset someone that runs around with a fencing weapon. Everyone knows that a dexxer should be able to take out anything or anyone in the game.

    Get real people! Quit complaining about everything and learn how to play the game by adjusting your game play. Wouldn't it be horrible if you had to do that?

    :bdh:
    :drama:
    :rant2:
    :violin:
     
  22. Divster

    Divster Guest

    So mook rather than make a post relevant to the subject you decide to a)accuse me of lumping things in one, then b) proceed to say "people like you" so doing exactly the same thing, then c) proceed to make a personal insult simply because i have a different opinion from you? wow, My post was expressing my opinion on the subject of this post.. that is to say i don't want to save the g dragon as i do not think that it is a balanced aspect of the game.. that is my opinion and feel free to disagree with it, but pls refrain from making pointless comments simply to try and stir trouble or denigrate other posters which I think you will find is against the roc!
     
  23. Just to add to that, make it so anyone with the taming skill can't be targeted in Fel. After all, the tamers weapon is their animal, so if you don't want them to be able to use their weapon, then you shouldn't be able to target them.

    :lol:
     
  24. Nexus

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    I play Chessy also, and I play a Tamer most the time, and I'll say Greater Dragons need adjusting, well actually Greater Dragons and Cu Sidhe both need , to quote Jeremy, a swift kick in the nuts. Greater Dragons are Overbalancing in PvP their damage ratio is too high vs 70 resists. For PvM they are pretty much another Fire and Forget pet just like the Cu Sidhe. I like playing a tamer, I'm all for promoting the skill group, but I want people to actually know how to play a tamer, and regardless of what many think it's not really effective to get the biggest heavy duty pet out there and send it in to do all the work. I can take down most monsters much much faster with a 3 and a 2 slot pet than with a Greater Dragon this includes Peerless...Cu Sidhe are only good for their healing ability against Necro AI monsters, even then they deal much less damage than most 2 slots since Most undead have high cold resist. Pretty much I hate the concept of a Lazy Tamer, you know one that wants the pets to do all the work instead of learning how to work with the pets.
     
  25. Nexus

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    Taking Tamers out of PvP isn't a solution, they should be allowed just like anyone else....Just the Devs need to put in proper balancing methods into Pets for PvP encounters.
     
  26. Salty Pete

    Salty Pete Guest

    I am curious to see what Joe PvPer thinks would be a fair balance for tamers in PvP.

    Keep in mind that a legendary tamer has to dedicate 360 skill points to taming to be effective which doesn't leave many skill points for defensive or secondary offensive skills.
     
  27. Nexus

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    That's what I think a lot of the PvPers fail to realize that half the template is taken up just taking care of the pets, leaving the tamer his or her self pretty weak.
     
  28. Mook Chessy

    Mook Chessy Certifiable
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    Maybe if you read my post....

    I said nothing of nerfing the GD, I actually said it was fine just the way it is!

    What I did say, twice, is make animal form take one control slot!

    I did not read one respone that had anything to do with this post....grrr

    I do hope I get busy at the office to keep me from these boards....
     
  29. Nexus

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    I don't see how Animal form taking a control slot will effect anything, all the GD's I see in Fel are being instructed by a guard zone hugging tamer.
     
  30. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    GD firebrreath and direct hit should be limited to 35 damage to PLAYERS, everything else is fine IMO.

    If you dont think GD is overpowered in PvP at current stat.... then add GDs to rikktor spawn at 4th stage, lets see what happen.
     
  31. Divster

    Divster Guest


    Your point about ninja I agree with wholeheartedly, however your post claims greater dragons are fine other than this, as well as your title, save the gd. This is part of your post and so the majority of posts have actually been on subject as many people do not think that the gd is fine as it is. As I said I agree that animal form should take a control slot but i disagree that the gd is otherwise fine. Instead of removing them or making them unable to attack/be attacked in pvp a cap on thier damage would be far easier to implement and should remedy the problem. hope the office doesn't get too overwhelming ;)
     
  32. ColterDC

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    Actually us PvPers realize a hell of alot.

    You don't need 360 skill points to PvP with any pet in this game. 220 skill points max to control a GD.

    Hell my Tamer on Siege only has 210 skill points to control my dog/hiryu.

    No need for Vet since the pet never dies.
     
  33. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    It takes lower than 220 skill points to control GDs at 100% if you have jewleries/talisman/arty.

    Vet is not needed as GD can have upto 1000 hp, with the resists GD has it should never be killed. And NOTHING in game deals 1000 damage faster than logging out of UO (which puts GD into god mode and disappears until the next time the tamer logs in).

    Again GD is so underpowered then put it in rikktor spawn and then the hardest spawn will shift to rikktor in a heartbeat.
     
  34. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    What then would it be like to tame a G-dragon? Easy?
     
  35. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    A ninja form should simple cost a follower point. Maybe even 2 for the mounted speed kind
     
  36. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Taming greater dragon is nothing... You can do it without even touching the dragon once with peacemaking or you can honor tame (for the gimplets who's not playing normal tamer template).

    Besides tamer super dragon should deal much less dmg to players than it is currently. Wild ones can remain unchanged.
     
  37. Arrgh

    Arrgh Sage
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    Since ppl are baiting others, why don't we just get rid of PvP completely, go play WarSlammer if you insist on getting your fun ganking others and are whining because ppl are taking advantage of the g drags and stealth. Reminds me of when pking was forced in Fel back in the day and the ppl who didn't want anything to do with the pk crap had to deal with it...so maybe it's pkers turn to deal with it.


    Seriously though, if they fork with the G drags I'm suspecting all that will be left is a handful of ppl out of already barely a handful of ppl thanks to pvp BS and the whining, drama and cheese that go along with the pvp crap that has been reducing this game little by little to nothing.

    :bdh:
     
  38. Xenobia

    Xenobia Lore Keeper
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    I think the general consensus is just cut the amount of damage it does to players ...but imho it should not be all that much. As someone else stated, tamers have no other defense. I know I don't! (but then I don't PVP so this really isn't my area of expertise) I just don't see how you could be a good tamer and add anything else to your template to make you become anything other then a weakling. If I am wrong, maybe someone can explain a template to me that would make sense?? We work dang hard to become tamers. It took me FOREVER to even GM it much less get to elder (working on legendary) It is not a skill where you can stand around and whack on something until you are legendary. It very well should be tough to beat a tamer.
    But PLEASE don't give us something cool like a GD and then snatch it back away from us.