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Saw something very sad today

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Elric_Soban, May 29, 2011.

  1. Elric_Soban

    Elric_Soban Babbling Loonie
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    A player who was brand new to UO came onto general chat to ask some basic questions. About 3 or 4 people all jumped in to offer their advice, which was cool to see people wanting to help.

    This player seemed very excited about UO, was eager to learn on her own and figure things out after a few basic Q's and A's.. i think she said it was her 2nd day in the game. After a little while, just to be nosy and see how she was doing, i went to New Haven and saw her there getting 'helped'.. she had apparently been furnished not only with a horse but with a full properly imbued mage suit.. 100% lrc, MR mods.. resist. etc.. insured, and so i can only assume she was given a bunch of money to support the insurance...

    Now, helping new players is one thing.. but handing them uber gear and a bunch of money on their 2nd day? How does that help them? What does that teach them? And worst of all, what does that leave for them to do in the game? Despite her enthusiasm, i'd be surprised to see her still playing within a month.

    Everyone has a different style when it comes to helping new players, it just saddens me when i see this particular 'style'..
     
  2. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Really depends on what the person wants out of this. Just because they have "uber" gear doesn't mean they'll know how to hunt, dungeon crawl , etc. I. Don't see a problem with getting set up with a house, suit and gold. Gold only lasts so long before they will need to get more. And I am betting that unless someone gave her 1bil in gold she won't even have enough to buy too much with prices on some items. There is still so much more to do in this game then getting one house, a bit of gold and one suit. Regardless of how nice the suit is. Eventually I am betting she may want to get a different house elsewhere, make more than one character...

    I hardly see what's so very sad about this. Thought you were going to say people were talking trash to the new player...
     
  3. Yellow Beard

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    So open a gate to fel, Tell her you are going to give her a house. When she crosses over, kill her and see if they neglected to tell her about insurance. It may be possible to pick up some neat stuff. If nothing else it will instill that UO is not all entirely friendly and she can start over without all that special stuff. That should make you happy.
     
  4. Raptor85

    Raptor85 Certifiable
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    I don't know if "Sad" is the right word, but giving a truely "new" player (not just someone returning or coming from another shard) everything they "need" is generally disastrous in the long run. Much like the obviousness of players who buy accounts in other games like WOW and Aion, the new player will have the items but never have learned the basics of the game. The "simple" things you first learn by killing mongbats, or fighting orcs she will never learn until out hunting with her guild or such. It basically form them into the kind of player who will now, instead of learning as they went during the quick initial time fighting easy enemies, will need to constantly ask questions and learn how to fight over a much longer period of time with harder enemies.

    Car analogy:
    It's like having someone who doesn't know how to drive go directly to double towing trailers...sure you can lead them through it eventually, but expect disaster along the way, and expect it to take a lot longer. It probably makes more sense for them to simply learn how to drive a normal car first.
     
  5. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Gentelmen where it is great to see real "NEW" players come to UO, I think you forget the trials we anchients put up with so long ago that its become a fond memory and not the pain in the tush it was.
    4
    A suit of armore with lrc and a few $ in gold and and a HORSE not house is fine...
    I have over the years helped thousands of new players come in to uo and not once did one quit in under a month. Most learned and played for years, now I did say most because there have been a few who simply were waiting for another game to premere and UO was a short stop in their wait.

    The small boost of a lrc suit and some gold to keep it is not much to give and really does help them along in enjoying the game. Skills do need to be learned, and they ultimatly do learn. They were new so giving them a horse was not done, but they were told I bet how to buy one.

    I cant see the harm or the foul of handing a young one a few trinkets of the game to get them going. Many years ago I and my guild gave houses to new players and helped them get started. I did this on many of the shards I have had the pleasure of being on. Beleave you me those players passed it on... it was the only thing I wanted in return for help was the simple request to be kind to the next new player they met.

    To all who meet a "new" player pass on a little care to them, all it takes is a kind word, shoval or pony, a few pennys of gold, and you make a friend. Your vast knowlage is worth a fortune so invest it in them ... it pays in the end.
     
  6. Risso

    Risso Babbling Loonie
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    So its sad to see a new player being given an LRC suit worth a few hundred thousand, 20k for insurance and being shown how to buy a horse with their starting gold? Much better that they learn to use reagents like everyone else in the game (lol), or die repeatedly to low level monsters and give up completely? Theres nothing wrong with it if they're not having millions of gold, artifacts and a castle dumped on them, or what could be considered close to end game content. An LRC suit and some gold is pretty unlikely to sour a new player's view of the game.
     
  7. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    :lol:
     
  8. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    I think U ALL FORGET... most young players are NOT new players .....They are Vets that make new chars on new shard they dont normally play and CASH IN AND take some sad c***s GENERSOSITY!!!!!! then sell it on to make millos!!!! LOL:lol:rolleyes::):sad3:
     
  9. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Was that ironic ? I did not understand it well.....

    Personally, I do not think that treating harshly a fresh new player does any good to the game.

    I thought we wanted MORE players come to UO, not scare the few new ones that show up now and then away from the game.........
     
  10. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I do not think that happens that frequently.....

    Why ?

    Because usually Vets have lots of gold, items, rares.

    Usually a brand new player gets a 100% LRC suit, sometimes a free Blue Beetle or a Fire Beetle, some advice, and a little gold as a head start like 100k or little more.

    All things that usually a Vet already has so, I hardly think there would be any point to pretend to be a new player.

    And even though it may sound odd that an almost 14 years old game STILL gets brand fresh new players, it does as I have seen them on occasions.
     
  11. Apetul

    Apetul Rares Fest Host | LS April 2011
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    When i started playing, 3yrs ago, someone gave me a lrc suit, a spellbook and 200k gold.. that was awesome, it took me 1-2 weeks to train that mage then i started a chiv sword. Anyway, as a starting player i cant thank enough that guy, too bad i cannot remember his name :sad3:

    When i see a new player (easy to know if its a real new player or not) i give em 1m gold. Most of them are still playing some months later.
     
  12. Mongbat137

    Mongbat137 Visitor

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    I give stuff to newbies all the time, and in Haven Atlantic you'd be surprised how often you see true newbies. What are they going to do, put on NPC armor and a bag of regs and WALK to Despise, then lose everything when they die because they can't afford to insure anything good they may have?

    Man people don't put up with that crap in games anymore.
     
  13. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    My son started playing a year back. He wanted to play a mage. So i gave him all the 120 power scrolls (magery, wrestle, eval int, resist, parry & Med) made him amage suit worth 100 mill+ fully trained his character to the above 120 skills.

    Then gave him 80 million in his NEW keep to get him started.

    One year in, he gave me my 80 Million back and loves playing the game!
     
  14. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    Each to his own.................

    I gave my own boy an old woody atari 2600 and 3 games space invaders, missile command and astroids.. tolds him to come back when he beat my high scores and i'd give him £100 per game he beat... hes getting grey hair now and mines getting thin!!! alas i still have not paid out!!!

    theres games and there gamers!!!:lol:
     
  15. twoburntfouryou

    twoburntfouryou Journeyman
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    I had the help of family when I started playing. They gave me a lrc suit and gold and a 18x18 and advice. I still ran from mongbats. I had to train all my chars up myself. Without the help I would of been lost and probably quit with in a week.
     
  16. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    Ultima team members over the ages have made it very clear they want the game to be this easy. I could give every new player i see 10 mil every day and it would not affect me in the least. In fact the only reason i don't is because i cant make ten mil checks
     
  17. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    I am against it. Either way if the new player is a player that wants to only really pvp or roleplay then giving him all that wont make much of a difference. But if it's a player into games like final fantasy, original ultima series, dragon warrior or players who want to make themselves in the world especially pvm players then giving him that just gave him his end game on the second day and wont stick around too long.
     
  18. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I have read many posts about the gap between new players and current ones, about the gap between the "haves" and the "have nots," about how hard it is to get going right out of the box these days, in comparison to the old days, when you could at least be viable in store-bought stuff.

    Someone, in this case, tried to close that gap for a new player, and it generates a complaint.

    Without addressing the actual issue for just this moment, I'll say that, if nothing else, the thread proves that much of this game is a "damned either way" situation.

    Now as to the actual issue....I can see both approaches as viable.

    She can always make a new character and ask for no help at all.

    And, good armor or not, I find it likely she has many challenges ahead of her. For example, her stats are probably still low and her skills likely will be a mess for some time to come.

    I would much prefer this to "help me get my corpse" scams.

    -Galen's player
     
  19. Lord Nabin

    Lord Nabin High Council Sage - Greater Sosaria
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    I love this Great Job!!!! This is a classic
     
  20. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    rofl

    I play about 10 shards now. I built a necro mage on every shard from scratch and then bought suits or pieces or found looted pieces to make my first 100% LRC. However, the thing oldies need to remember is UO is designed in a way which caters to dexxers as a first character, because it's very hard to make money as a mage who is new to the game. It's also hard for a mage, in general, to earn money from scratch.

    A dexxer can amass a great deal of wealth by leveling to 50s in skill on Old Haven mobs. Then they can buy some starter leather and a horse and proceed to level up some more, probably to the 60s. After that, who knows. A mage has to buy regs, focus on fireball as the most cost effective spell (hopefully they can realize that), then kite like a pro. Also, I know plenty of Trammel veterans who don't understand why a PvM mage should use a mage weapon or have wrestling for defense, so I can only imagine how long it would take a noob mage--in a Trammel climate--to figure that part out.

    Anyway, long story short, it's more worthwhile--as a mage--to do escort quests for 500 gp than it is to kill mobs with fireball. Should people give newbies an LRC suit? Eh, if you're just talking full 100% non all 70s, why not? That's pretty damn cheap to make w/ an imbuer. Anything more "perfect?" Probably not. Should people just tell the noob mages to start a dexxer first to provide a cash flow? Shrugs, maybe.
     
  21. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Well said Galen....

    As for the newbie... it was a genuine newb... heard about the game ... had played WoW and other various MMO's.... thought she'd try her hand at the Granddaddy of most MMO's.....

    I hope she stays. And it's nice to see someone getting some help. Because no matter what is given her the best thing she can be given is the SENSE OF COMMUNITY. It is THAT reason alone that most play UO... and it is THAT which keeps many still here.


    It's not the crap that's for sure.

    And it surely isn't the bug ridden content.

    And I must agree with Galen...... Ye are damned if ye do and damned if ye don't... either way it's a lose lose situation.
     
  22. Minerva Foxglove

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    Im a Haven helper on Europa.
    I can just say we get new players even if less than before. They are easy to recognice . I can sense if someone who say they are new actually played in 97 for a few months. Its enough for them to ask the right questions.

    We also get returning people that eighter have their old account and just have lots of questions and need an upgraded armour . We have shard jumpers and many people that played free shards for a long time. Give them what you feel you want to and make them feel welcome. We have lots of non-English speaking people that really need your patience and help to find players they can communicate with . The new chat helps if you can explain how to use it.

    And the new ones. They need to feel welcome, the biggest chock for people coming from other games is that here people care and are pleased to see them.

    I hand out full LRC suits but nothing a vet would wear . Not alot of other mods or lots of FC/FCR etc..depends on what I have. I dont want them to get close to end gear but I dont want them to spend their precious younghood to do escorts and stand there waiting for the timer to reset! With that armour they can train and get their insurance gold.

    Warriors get 70 resist and pretty good other resists on a lightweight metal suit. Some stam some di and perhaps some mana and ssi..The more they learn the more other mods they are going to want so they will work to get even better gear. Some tithing gold if needed.

    The gold I feel they should earn. If they have a good suit a sword a spellbook , some runes to start with the gold will come.

    Next thing useful is, give your time! Answer questions in a simple way and give some basic advice and links. Dont show off with all your knowledge..just tell whats usefulthe nearest days..the rest will just be confusing for now. :scholar:

    Oh and find out how they want to play. A roleplayer has other needs and helping them to find a guild might be the best help.
    A crafter do very well on his own but need stratics link and maybe you can equip him later when he makes a warrior?
    A guy that only comes for PvP..thats the only ones I give money. I dont know alot about PvP but we need all players and theese guys are going to need more to get started than anyone else. .I practice my imbuing skills here and help them with contacts when I can.

    I very often meet people who tell how important this first meeting was for them to stay in UO and not give up the first week! They often tell how they nowdays help new players.
     
  23. Mandrake of DF

    Mandrake of DF Lore Keeper
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    I really dont see the sadness in this. She get a start gear with 100% lrc 70 resists and basic mr 1 and prob int mods on it. Its a gear thats easy to make for a imbuer - and sure, why should it not be insured? Its to learn her to insure stuff so she dont loose it.

    Just because they are new, dont mean that experienced players can give her a little boost - so that she/he actually can go work on skills and explore the world.

    Id rather sad see you come here whine to the boards that some peoples are nice and help a new player with a start kit.
    That start kit of her proberbly dont have much durability, so before she is finished training her char she will proberbly worn out parts of it - and have to start look for a new set of armor.

    Id say its a great effort for the players show up and give her a start to the game. (insure a full suit costs 3,8k gold - so whats the uber about that???)
     
  24. DENNAR

    DENNAR Journeyman
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    Whenerver we see anyone in game, new or old we should be complete aholes to them. Then more people quit faster except for people that like dealing with aholes and the game will close due to low subs.


    Lets all go out there and be complete aholes to everyone.
     
  25. Aran

    Aran INFRACTION INFRACTION INFRACTION!
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    This is the first time you've seen this? UO is 14 years old this year. Nothing is new about any of this.


    Are you new, yourself?
     
  26. Adol

    Adol Certifiable
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    The New Player tutorial though really isn't very good, no one gets a boxed copy let alone a manual for the game any more, and the learning curve of the game after 14 years of content is extremely high. There's only a small community that will help, if you can find them, and General chat tends to be dominated by attention seeking trash talkers... with that in mind, I truly believe allowing people to at least go out without worrying about having to find a new NPC vendor who'll sell you reagents after 20 casts of a spell is the least we can do to overcome the rest of the hurdles a new player faces.
     
  27. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    Honestly after thinking about it some... I kind of liked the idea of "twinking" a new players gear but and this is a major IF... Do not fort the pieces. This way they know what they are working towards once that suits beat AND it gets them well on their way to obtaining the most basic of items.

    It is of course sad if that was a 255 durability suit thats gona last a year or more

    I know what I like to do is start fresh now and again and this past run I was given 1 mill gold and 2 non resist non forted LRC suits. Heh the gold was from me wearing a full ring set made from dull copper and some one at the bank (Thanks!) saw me laughed out loud and handed me a check said go by some armor! LOL what he didnt know was that suit (70 phys) was all I needed to get 100 swords tact and LJ

    Also Ive been seeing a rash of uber geareds spamming poor and begging and THEY have made off with almost 100m! We as a community have to be careful what we decide not only can it hurt the new player experience but it can keep the scum afloat!
     
  28. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Usually with "newbs" Those new or even returnee's I give them a good suit..... nothing "uber" I'm not going to hand them a 100%LRC All 70's max LMC etc suit..... no.... but I will give them a moderately decent 100% suit with at least 50's or 60's resist... and a full spellbook..... probably not an "uber" one either. I mean you want to help them but you also want to give them something to "build" on.

    I might even give them a mill or two in gold..Though I typically do not ever give gold... Rarely I do, they can insure the suit for a bit and place a small plot or whatever and design it. Enough to learn the in's and out's but not to much that they find the game on easy.

    I will spend time with them... explaining simple things... where to find your way around. Where to get information... I refer them here to Stratics..... refer them to UOGuide... I do NOT tell them about gold selling sites or any of that...

    I talk to the about what Mob's are best to fight at their level... show them the Moongate system... Tell them to spend time on foot... exploring... pick a town and learn where to find NPC vendors.

    I talk to them about Goals... what are their goals in the game... what sort of gameplay do they enjoy? PvP? PvM? Both? Do they like Role-play? Are they in it to see how much gold they can amass? Is their goal to build the best warrior? To conquer Fel? Depending on their goals in game I might suggest a guild or two for them to consider. Also I'll warn them about certain guilds... about folk known to be scammers... or cheats.

    I warn them to look out for certain known scam tactics.

    I ask them about the Client they are using.... and try to help them set up a Macro or two to help them "learn" how to do that. Though the longer I go without playing in 2d the harder that becomes for me.

    I ask them about things like Fishing the High Seas, to see if that is something they are interested in.... Talk to them about the crafting system.

    Repairs for armor and weapons... I might even guide them to a "good" shop.

    On GL's I often steer new players to GTO Gear Shack in Yew. Why? Because they often sell things new players need at DECENT prices not Luna prices. They often have "decent" armor weapons jewels and spellbooks as well as spells and other things a new player might need and it isn't Too hard to find and get back from even on foot.

    If it is a returning player I'll often show them to the Nameless Rune Library... ask them when they quit... ask them why they came back and what they are looking to find... then try to direct them.

    If you lead them in the right direction often they will stay. If you treat them poorly they aren't likely to be here a year later. I lend out all sorts of things and all I ask is that they either "pay it forward" or return what was given when they either leave or upgrade so that I might continue to help others.
     
  29. Kwai

    Kwai Guest

    I am one of those "new" players who have been helped. I only played like 3 years in total in my account, most of that 2000-2002 and every now and then a month or so in between.

    Past 8 years or so I been through a lot of mmo, only to get bored after the novelty wore off. Had a think about why and decided that I miss the freedom of choice in Ultima, the sense of danger/risk, the pure sandbox feel which doesnt force me to do a certain thing and decided to reactivate my account and rolled on Siege Perilous 3-4 days back :)

    Oh man, soooo many things have changed in the game from stats on armor, to completely new skills etc etc..it might be total easy and normal for vets who never stopped but I felt as overwhelmed as on my first day in UO so many years back.

    Luckily I met very nice people. When I arrived I was strolling around a bit just looking at houses as some are truly amazing and it was a mix of a nostalgic walkabout and sightseeing. Met someone in New Magincia who was so kind to get me in contact with Newborn, a guild set up to help newcomers on Siege. I mean in which game these days, people just stop somewhere to just say Hi and start a conversation? I think just that little event made me want to stay for good this time. Found supernice people which are very very helpful and without their advise/tips it would take me ages to take everything new in.

    So at the end I really think that apart from the game itself what makes Ultima really great are the people, most people play this game for a long time, are maybe a little bit older and relaxed than player in other games in general or they are just a different type of player. The sense of community is really there, feels like a living world, even if its not as busy as before.
     
  30. Cailleach

    Cailleach Certifiable
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    I've made new player starter kits. A basic dexxer or mage suit, nothing spectacular, just a bit better than the stuff you land in. Full spell/bush/chiv book, depending on the kit. A crystal ball of knowledge, a rune book with some 'starter dungeons', a Haven rune and a rune to our guildhouse, and a couple of books I've put together about basic templates and one about stats. I usually throw in enough gold to get them going insurance wise. Sometimes we guild them, sometimes we don't. If we do guild new ones, I insist that he/she who finds them mentors them. The whole alliance is available for folks to ask questions of as well. So they have access to friendly players who have, between them, many years of game experience and a wealth of knowledge to share.

    Giving them everything is no good; half the fun in this game is learning and working your way up. Giving just enough for a base to build on is where it needs to be.
     
  31. Lord Raven

    Lord Raven Seasoned Veteran
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    I hold back just a bit on helping brand new players. There have been times where I've gone to the trouble to try and fully equip someone new, just to have then disappear after that. Maybe they are playing somewhere else in the game... or maybe they decided UO wasn't for them and quit.

    This game takes time to learn, so after I see a new player in New Haven, working the skill quests, asking questions... I'll offer some help. Usually spare armor, maybe a spellbook, runebook or a custom made weapon. I'll give em a little insurance gold too. After that I want to see them make it on their own for a while, while they train their skills and learn the game.

    If I see that they keep busy... I'll help, but if they just stand around and beg... I won't.

    What annoys me is when a (new) player asks for a suit, and equipment and then they apparently get bored and wander off, or log out. I return in 10mins with the goodies and they are gone. Hrmph.

    And yes, some "new" players are actually returning vets, but from my own experience I can say that after you've been away for a couple of years... there is a lot to learn. Plus a returning vet on a new account won't know about new player quests to build skill, or the new character skills. (Ninjitsu, Bushido, Spellweaving, etc.)
     
  32. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    New players don't have to accept the gifts. I tried to help someone just yesterday w/ 3-4 trash pieces, any of which, alone, would have been double their current Total AR, which was about 25. They declined, said they were good, but thanks anyways.
    25 Total AR, not [all's] - that's what sad too
     
  33. BajaElladan

    BajaElladan Certifiable
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    Hail Britainnians,

    THIS!

    Welcome them first, then discuss what they know, or don't know ...hehe, share some sites where updated information may be found. Discuss goals, roleplay, and explain that many find many differing ways to enjoy and have fun in our beloved world. Encourage them to find and embrace THEIR way towards that fun and enjoyment.

    Explain in general the wonder and the potential downsides of life in our virtual world.

    In short, some want only info, some want some help, some want ALL you have. Learn and discern their wants and needs, and provide what your Wisdom and experience dictates you ought to provide.

    YEAH! What he said!!!
     
  34. Minerva Foxglove

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    What Cailleach and her guild does for Europa soo good, nothing compares.:bowdown:
     
  35. Cailleach

    Cailleach Certifiable
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    Back at you and HLP, Mim :)
     
  36. Percivalgoh

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    I am not sure what people want out of this game but I am sure it varies with the player. I guess some people play and make their uber characters gather their uber items and buy their uber castle/house. I don't have uber anything, never did. Still enjoy playing. But for those so inclined a gift of uber stuff may be a good thing.
     
  37. Black Sun

    Black Sun Grand Poobah
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    I do almost the same thing. When I find a new person I usually set them up with a decent suit, a good weapons, and a small pile of gold. But I think there's a right way and a wrong way to help new players. I mean lets face it, the starting gear is painfully out of date. 1k isn't going to buy you a sword these days. In my opinion I'm just giving them a boost to hopefully close that gap between new and established players.

    However, if I were giving them an all 70's, 100% lrc suit with +18 MR, 50 million gold and a bunch of artifact quality weapons, I'd probably doing them more harm than good. I look at it like giving them a 100% lrc suit and 1 or 2 mil gold for starting equipment and insurance will just save them aggravation during their training. Aggravation that might just otherwise run them off the game because it's too hard to get started.