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Say No To Pixels For Dollars Fad

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Tomas_Bryce, Aug 6, 2009.

  1. Tomas_Bryce

    Tomas_Bryce Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
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    I find it so amazing when some people consistently complain and go green with envy over whatever random pixels Japan store is selling now. They spend hours shedding crocodile tears about it on here when the fact remains that for the past few months, it is North American servers that have gotten the best deal.

    How so, you may ask? The amount of FREE CONTENT that we have received on North American shards in the past 6 months is hands down far superior (quantity and quality) than Japanese shards.

    * The EM program is significantly more extensive than Japanese IGM program.

    * We have been getting content added to most shards that has not happened on most Japanese and Korean Shards. For example, Arcane Circles and Faire Grounds.

    * Japanese shards are far behind on Global events as well, with most of it happening several weeks after us and some things just skipped.

    There are probably few more things that can be tacked on to this list. I can fully understand being frustrated about not having the opportunity to obtain something. But to COMPLETELY LOSE SIGHT and throw in the sink is outright ridiculous. We have to grasp the fact that not everything that makes sense for Japanese shards necessarily applies here and vice versa.

    I hope the people with more grounded perception of reality will join me in encouraging MORE FREE CONTENT than the current pixels for dollars fad on U.Hall. Trust me, the suits would want nothing more than to charge us for everything if they could. So, think before opening your bank account and crying to be looted. Last thing we want, or so I can hope, is UO to turn into one of those cruise ships where they charge you for breathing the air!
     
  2. Snakeman

    Snakeman UO Forum Moderator
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    So true indeed, heck I would rather DO Something then to just LOOK at something. Ya pixel crack is ok, but wouldn't you rather do something guys & gals then to just stand there & look at something?? Think about it, gets a lil boring just lookin at something & doing nothing.
     
  3. Borric

    Borric Seasoned Veteran
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    Youamke some good points. All I can say is that the EMs on Great Lakes are doing a great job. But to say that they Asian shards dont have fair grounds I dont think is 100% accurate. Evry once in a while I will walk around on an Asian shard just to look and see whts differnt. Most I have seen have many differnt places addd by GMs/EMs. Maybe not fair grounds but, they have other stuff added. I am good with that. They do things thier way, we do it ours.

    I really dont want to spend money on stuff that I dont have to. I do however, really want some ToT1 dyes. The only way to get them is to buy them from someone who either hoarded piles of them from ToT1, which I strongly doubt any are left from that event, or buy them from somone who purchased from the Japanese store and transfered them. I understand some folks dont like the colors. And honestly, I cant stand the all paragon gold armor. Man thats bright! But hey, what do I care? Its not my toon. The luna white and inv. blue are real nice tho, when mixed on your armor (IMHO). And to be honest, its far far easier for me to make $10 to buy 1-2 dyes, then to make the 10-15 million gold that 2 full botles sell for. And since they are for sale, at an EA store, I think its safe to say they will never be given out as turn-ins or rewards ever again.

    Oh, I forgot about the Arcane circles.
    http://vboards.stratics.com/showthread.php?t=150837
    Apparently, they didnt want them at Brit bank.
     
  4. Mr. Gnome

    Mr. Gnome Guest

    I think it's also funny how people went nuts over silly deco items that will surely be here in due time. They have no use but to brighten up one's day. I can understand taking your chances buying a cool item from a site you don't understand, but a ladybug baffles me...

    :p
     
  5. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    But UO isn't UO if it hasn't :
    - a subscription fee (in the top of the market)
    - expansions you must buy
    - special edition boxes with all the now free expansions + a code for more content
    - an online shop


    Some games choose either of those. What a mistake! Just put some ingame content that can't be obtain ingame in an online shop and suckers will pay!


    :wall:
     
  6. Zodia

    Zodia Guest

    Everything on the internet is "just pixels" when you think about it.

    So if you hate pixels so much maybe you should shut your computer off and go do something else rather than lecturing other people about what they enjoy -- just makes you look like a giant hypocrite.
     
  7. Tomas_Bryce

    Tomas_Bryce Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
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    No, it does not. Not wanting to have EA increasingly adopt a Pay As You Go business model does not make me a giant hypocrite. I prefer to be able to receive items through in-game actions, instead of my financial situation.

    Also, pointing out that North American shards have been getting superior free content and we should be thankful about it does not make me a giant hypocrite.

    I don't need to "think" about it to know that everything on my monitor is pixels. However, perhaps, you do need to think about the fact that I was not referring to pixels in its most literal sense.
     
  8. well spoken Tomas_Bryce

    and no i dont want to see pokemon-for-little-asian-babys-crap like ladybugs and such thing on my shard ... we have another crap around already which hurts my eyes.

    if you think the asian shards are the better ones, hey feel free to play there (ping cant be so bad)
     
  9. Umm, Thomas... you might want to look at your credit card statement. There is no FREE CONTENT in UO. Well, except for the limited 14 day trial accounts. There rest of the pixels are paid for with our monthly subscriptions. The only way to "Say No To Pixels For Dollars Fad" is to cancel you accounts.
     
  10. Tomas_Bryce

    Tomas_Bryce Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
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    The monthly fee is created in a manner that will maximize their profit. If they increased the monthly subscription, they will lose some customers. If they lowered the monthly subscription, they will gain some customers. As such, a business model based on monthly subscription will always be reasonably priced as long as it is geared towards mass market. Once you pay the monthly subscription everything is equal (more or less).

    However, when you introduce a model where you start charging for things on top of the monthly subscription (or even scrap the monthly subscription completely, lot of games do this and I dislike all of them), you can bypass these constraints to some degree. It is a perfectly viable business model but it would change the game completely. It would increasingly reward people who can afford to spend (or cannot afford but do it anyways) money on the game. With monthly fee, we all pay a set amount of dollars. You cannot significantly change the quality of your gaming experience by throwing your checkbook around. Even if you can, I can achieve the same experience without spending a single dime outside of my monthly subscription.

    Ultima Online doing more "promotions" that introduces items that you can only obtain via spending $ means that developers are increasingly spending time on designing things that we have to spend extra on.

    It also means that, at certain point, the suits will gear them towards focusing on increasing the AVERAGE INCOME PER SUBSCRIBER instead of providing "free" and improved content to increase the TOTAL NUMBER OF SUBSCRIBERS. Former means that, in the end, we have to shell out more dollars to get the same content we would have otherwise gotten free.

    If that is the future for Ultima Online that appeals to you, then more power to you. However, it does not excite me and I will gladly voice my opinion against it.
     
  11. I agree with you for the most part, but think you are over reacting to it. Other people enjoy the pixrl deco enough to pay real dollars for it. I don't understand it myself, but I also don't have a problem with other people helping to pay for new content, and it helps EA (and UO) stay in business. It's their choice to buy, and my choice not to buy. Other than that... meh
     
  12. LadyNico

    LadyNico Always Present
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    My UO homes are, and will remain, ladybug-free zones. Fact.
     
  13. Xalan Dementia

    Xalan Dementia Slightly Crazed
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    Well said Tomas. Ive never understood people shelling out real money for virtual money/items (except for things like xfer token,adv char, etc). Let the deco addicts have their items, but make them play the game to get them, not just buy them. The thing that upsets me is that these people are willing to spend so much more for japan only items (example- ladybugs cost roughly 5 dollars from uo japan site, vendors and sites are selling for 20m-20 dollars. thats 15 dollars profit to the greedy) As I have stated in another post, I think the us ems should place signs around high traffic areas in game that explain to people that they should wait for the us ea store to sell these items and not waste money promoting some xfering price gouger. But back to the main idea of this post, I fully support the No Dollars for Deco movement.

    make the ladybugs a rare drop from player grown plants or something.
    make the carpets craftable with a tailoring addon book (like masonry)
     
  14. Demonous

    Demonous Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
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    if you think we get a lot of content on the NA servers then id say you're mistaken, before they made tokuno minors spawn again there was nothing going on for months... they have these huge gaps with adding nothing and it makes people get very bored after a while, also the EMs on my shard don't ever give items out so no one does those events
     
  15. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    Well maybe some people don't have a problem with paying more and more to get the content. They probably have a sugarcoated blindfold. I see a problem. Some nice customers might not be able to spend more than their subscription to get that additional content. You can't even tell them to buy them from other players, not all of the contents of the online shop are sellable ingame. When it is, you have to find someone who wants to buy gold coins with real money. Unfortunately, even if EA doesn't care because the money goes in their pockets, some players disagree with that approach of MMORPGs. If they are playing a P2P game, maybe that's also because they don't want the editor of the game to encourage people to use their credit cards to get more from the game.

    What's the heck with that customizable house option they're forbidding me to use? I pay my subscription fee + the expansions, and instead of seeing the all the roof sets complete, I see two other sets of walls with the mention "lol u avta pay moar!!". It's not even a service I'm asking, they don't have to do any operation like a server transfer requires, why would I have to pay more and more for what should be available?
    Is the support service so powerful that my subscription fee is greatly spent? Today 8:25AM GMT I send a page, at 7:50PM GMT (and counting) it's still flashing in the infamous 6th place in help queue. I pay for that? Seriously... :coco:

    There'd better be a free ladybug token right in each of my characters backpacks for anniversary/unanniversary/whatever if there's no way to get them by loot or craft.
     
  16. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    Well...

    I might go for a $1 increase in sub fees and they provide the goodies ingame.
    But no, I wont buy the goodies with my CC.
    The code store, IMO, should be selling gametime, transfer codes, etc etc, boxed sets of the games, but NOT ingame usable pixels...

    [/opinion]
     
  17. Tay M'real

    Tay M'real Guest

    cash for in-game items is part of was reduced the overall effectiveness of the UO economy and ultimately led us to this ridiculous inflation that we have today....part of that was trammel of course with the reduction in possibly losing your stuff - no looting - auto arming on death - and insurance...
     
  18. Flora Green

    Flora Green Guest

    I would love for these items to be available in game, but if they EVER add the dyes to the US store and that's the only way I can get them, I'm buying them. Of course, they could be logical about it and make the dyes and rugs and furniture craftable, but ...yeah. That will happen.
     
  19. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    These sales are the wave of the future for MMOs. As long as they are kept mostly to decorations I don't see a problem. It isn't as if you can buy a fancy sword or mount that moves twice as fast.
     
  20. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    Quiver of *cough* Infinity *cough cough*


    :eek:snap:
     
  21. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I think they should have more of both free and pay items. Both are good for the game.
     
  22. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    I have often wondered about the leagality of things like this. This doesnt fall into the pay-to-play category. If I pay cash for specific items then haven't I taken ownership of said item? Should I not have access to these items at all times? Do I have to continue to pay a monthly fee to access item(s) I purchased? It would be like collecting baseball cards then paying a fee each time I wanted to see them.

    If I am paying a lifetime rental fee on these pixels then havent I dont this already w/my monthly sub? After all most items are re-used art anyway.

    Paying a monthly sub makes sense to me. I think peddling specific pixels for cash raises some interesting questions in the virtual world.
     
  23. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    *cough* Magic Online *cough*

    (actually, I'm not entirely clear on what their payment terms are, but you pay just as much for the virtual cards as the real ones but have nothing physical to show for it)
     
  24. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    Never played Magic Online. Not even sure if they're needs to be anything physical to "own". But I can see someone buying a considerable amout of these specific pay per piece items then taking legal action if their account were banned and they could no longer access these items.

    It is just unlcear to me what I are paying for when you purchase specific pixels? Am I payng a one time fee for the right to manipulate these items in game so long as I have an account in good standing to manipulate them with? I have seen a few law suits in MMOs for what would seem considerably less.


    Think if you are a judge who has never played any of these games and has no experience or knowledge on how they work. I were to cliam that I purchased an item online and am denied access to it because my account was suspended or even I canceled my subscription. But I still payed for the item and now the MMO producer will not let me enjoy them. What is your argument to that? These items should have alot of fine print attatched to them.
     
  25. Xalan Dementia

    Xalan Dementia Slightly Crazed
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    that is interesting, but i think the reply would be if you cancelled your account that the items would still technically be in your possession, youd just have to reactivate the account. for suspension im sure its something like "you broke the rules so you must forfiet your stuff." Im sure theres something in the ToS and such that would discuss this. but its still a grey area.
     
  26. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    After 12 years experience with all forms of berzerker players, I'm quite sure EA's managed to work all the needed wording into the terms of service to protect themselves.
     
  27. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    Those were made for anniversary boxes and were intended to be given out later on the players. It wasn't exactly the same thing. If you notice the last couple rounds of items have been all decorative when they were only available through this means.
     
  28. Konge

    Konge Lore Master
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    Not to mention heritage tokens which contain the quiver of infinity were given for free to players over one of the ani's...
     
  29. Malimus

    Malimus Guest

    I have to say i am in total agreement with Say No To Pixels For Dollars

    Paying for anything other than a monthly subscription fee for UO or any MMO in my opinion is foolish or even absurd. Its basically like giving your money away. And if you really think the cash made by selling this stuff on the side to the online game addicts actually goes into UO.... heh. I bet none of that cash goes into UO at all. Ea/Mythic most likely gets all the funds they need to support UO out of just the subscription fee's or less. The rest is profit or goes into the other games they have on the go.

    Things like dye's, ladybugs, carpet, mounts, Deco, ect ect ect... should only be obtainable inside the game through the means of hunting for them or via a payed for expansion or an incentive for pre-ordering. Not just those who have the extra cash on top of what they already pay per month.

    In all the many many online games i have played i have never once payed for anything other than expansions and subscription fee's. Going beyond that is basically like taking up smoking crack IMO. Same goes for those who pay for gold and such.

    The damage to the UO economy has been done. Must we damage it more?

    Anyway i could go on about this topic but i will stop here.

    P.S Sorry if I have offended people that do buy gold and silly items with cash but honestly. Cant you see your getting suckered and taken advantage of?
     
  30. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    And what are Anniversary Editions? Each time, it was all the expansions except for the last one. So, not really useful for new players. Who were buying them? Veteran of course, mostly to get the additional content (decoration items, soulstones, house wall sets, etc). So Anniversary boxes are exactly the same, the form is only slightly different.


    That would be forgetting that once they've given one code, others were for sale ($3 each if I remember well) during a long time before new tokens were given out. Maybe you forgot the opening of Origin. I remember some players started out with the samourai helmet, the royal amber leggings, the quiver and the crossbow. It changes a lot the experience, obviously.


    Anyway, P2P sub + expansions sold + F2P shop = very strange mix. The fact that devs are spending time doing items that the subscribers won't get but you'll have to pay more, that's a concept that I find rather outrageous.
     
  31. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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    You paid for your computer system to enhance your Virtual world right.

    I don't know about you but my system was built for pure entertainment.

    Purchasing an add on for MY Entertainment that enhances my free time is money well spent.

    when I want Substantial(real gain/reward)..... well that is what my real life JOB is for...

    People do a lot with money for entertainment, going to a movie is not much different.

    While at the movie, I bought popcorn to enhance my viewing pleasure.

    Your crack addiction theory is way out there.

    It Is also a real prominent sign of the I want it given to me for for free generation.
     
  32. guum

    guum Guest

    People can blow their money on whatever they want, but personally, this is pretty much my sentiment. It's paper-thin content relative to the price...if you were paying for every piece of new pixel crack that gets included in the game over the course of expansions, events, whatever at the rate of $7 each, subscriptions would average out to several hundred dollars per month. I can't believe anyone would actually spend more than a dollar on something like that.

    But hey, it's your money, so go nuts if it turns ya on.
     
  33. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    No, you can't buy whatever you want, do I need extreme examples to ring you a bell?

    By accepting to be a sucker when those items should be available through normal gameplay, you are hurting those who can't spend as much money as you in the game. They already pay the subscription and the expansion.

    Why do we have to pay more to get content? Why?
     
  34. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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    First, they are entitled to make money on what they create.

    Second, you do not have to pay, its a option only if you want new things do you have to pay..... that is strange

    Third, you are paying with money or time spent, you will lose one or the other or both obtaining these things..for those who cant pay cash up front there are alternatives they just take longer.

    The hurting those who cant pay is not accurate, its a trade off for a lot of people time vs money. Obtaining these things in game is time consuming. Oh wait I don't have much time but I did get paid this week its nice to have an option to get these.

    Fourth, there is room for both, and the creators get to decide whats free and what is not is not.

    I know I like getting payed for my efforts.
     
  35. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    First, they are already making money. It isn't a Free-To-Play MMO. We are already paying. They just take advantage of a big juridic void around MMOGs contracts to say "Well, we didn't define exactly what's included in the subscription fee, so we decide that this specific content isn't." If it isn't abusive, I don't know it is.

    Second, a game shouldn't give advantage to those with more money IRL. And of course, even the items sold at the online shop, the access is really hard ingame because you need to find someone who wants to buy ingame money with IRL money through an official way. And you must find someone who took the specific item you want.

    Third, lazy players shouldn't have the possibility to have such an easy access to those new items. There are crafting skills, there are loot tables, and not putting the new content at the right place is simply a punch in the face of the players who played the game, raised their skills and now ask for new things.


    Fourth, there isn't room for both because one destroys the spirit of the other. If you were a little bit less selfish and had a little bit of self-control, you would understand that accepting that business model is good for you in short term but very bad in long term, while refusing it could make EA add new content directly ingame and not in an online shop.
    And no, creators can't make what they want because they risk to upset the decreasing playerbase. Do you really think such a disgusting business model will attract new players?

    Again, these items could have been added directly ingame. Why should we have to pay more than what we signed for to get the new content that we're supposed to get?
     
  36. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Good lord... EA is a billion dollar cooperation. Do you seriously think they just toss out things willy nilly with no awareness of their legal footing? Give me a break.
    First of all, there are MANY online services where you pay money for virtual items that can only be accessed within the confines of the game they came from (magic online a good example). You can pay money to have your account altered (buying items, hair dye, etc) but if you break the terms of service you lose access to these alterations. Simple as that. Anyway you didn't have to use the codes. You could keep them, and look at them in your mail box. It was your fault to attach them to your character where they fall under the terms of service boundaries, that were broken, causing one to lose access to them.

    You would have 0 legal footing trust me.
     
  37. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    You dont have to do it. And the more money that gets brought in, the more money there is for development. I for one am for it, and I had even been mentioning it was a good idea to have an item shop ages before there was one.

    The only problem I would have is if they stopped providing plenty of "free" in game content as well, but thats not happening. Having a few neat items for sale is fine.
     
  38. Helfgrim

    Helfgrim Guest

    Pixels for cash earns the game money to continue to develop content and pay the dev team to keep working on bugs and enhancements to the game. Not everyone likes the additions made available through the game shop, this is where you can use your freedom of choice and not buy them. If I want a ladybug light and I have the means to get one, I certainly am going to spend my money on something that I feel would add to my enjoyment of the game. If I think they are stupid and ugly I won't buy one; but I am not going to stand in the way or judge someone else for wanting one or purchasing one. If the game gets to be segregated in that fashion you'd be surprised at what group you get slotted into in most cases and may find you are the minority and getting cut out.
     
  39. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    They are taking the freedom this game use to have to be whatever you want and selling it back to you in Re-hashed art. You paid for it once most likey in some expansion. Might as well re-hue it and prostitute being unique. Funny colored hair? That'll be $4 please. A 5, 1x1 rugs only $5....thats about what it would cost in the real world.... So I guess it makes sense to spend a thousand dollars covering the floors of my house. It disgusts me to no end. Even more repulsive is the limited use stuff. God crafting in game is getting so screwed.

    Did I miss the 11 anni items? Not the ones for sale of course but the free ones And by free I mean the ones that come with the monthly sub. I guess that stuff is all in a pile with the other free crap. And where is the monthly sub going? Does electricity cost that much?

    We had a monthly rate hike once on the promise of new and improved content. You may now purchase old and re-hued art for a not so-small fee. Freedom isn't free at all.

    I will be curious to see what SA will cost. By these rates I'm guessing $800-$1000/account
     
  40. Shelleybean

    Shelleybean Certifiable
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    I understand the point you are making, but on the other hand I have to consider the future of UO too. If these types of sales keeps UO going, then I'm going to support it. I want UO to stay around for a while longer.
     
  41. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    Is this what keeps UO going? Is this a bake sale to save the house? Where did you read this?
     
  42. Shelleybean

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    I didn't say that these type of sales keep UO going. If they do, then I support it. If you want to troll, at least get it right.
     
  43. Zyon Rockler

    Zyon Rockler Guest

    As far as the store being outside of the game, I completely agree.

    As far as pixels for dollars, I fear it is to late.

    Now, i'm not saying we should seal the world inside a computer and consider our characters to be life forms, after all this is just a game, but the truth is it's probably more real than you could imagine.

    Gold is already equal to so many dollars, this is the reverse of the real world, where dollars are worth so much gold, or they were at one time.

    If I were to go to Canada they use a different type of currency, which is valued verse the dollar, just as if I were in the world of UO and I was going to buy something, I don't really think of it as spending real money, or if I was in Canada buying something I would not think about how much US dollars I was spending.

    The fact is pixelated items as you call them, are illusions. The fact is an item has use and it's its' use that gives it value. An example: If I buy a shovel in the real world, it's so I can dig a hole. It doesn't matter what it's made out of. What matters is, is that I can dig a hole with it. Just like when I buy a shovel in UO, it has a use. Necessity is the mother of all invention and the need is its' value.

    If you spend gp in UO, that's your choice, but you could sell the gp and go buy some milk and bread to feed your family. Just because you decide not to believe that the gp doesn't have real dollar value, doesn't mean that it does not.

    If you go and kill an ettin and loot 60 million gp and go spend that 60 million gp by buying an item off of Joe Shmo the vendor, he can then take that and go turn it into real money. So, even though you have not used it as real money, it still is because it holds value that is equal.

    So, the real question should not be should we spend real money on pixels, it should be: Who should we be giving the money to?

    If there were in game vendors that were legitimately created by EA and even held and EA tag, I would much rather spend my 60 mill on that vendor than on Joe Shmo because the money would be going back into the game. This could also be used to control the value of things or the ability to obtain things.

    And of course, player vendors could compete, lowering prices but no matter how you look at it, the fact is, even though it's just a game there is alot more real than meets the eye and even though we don't know our futures, sometimes it's important that we think about them.