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scripting uo in South Korea gets you 5 years jail time

Discussion in 'UHall' started by RuSini Neb, Jun 16, 2012.

  1. RuSini Neb

    RuSini Neb Journeyman

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    read twords the bottom........
    South Korea has officially banned the trade of virtual items, which would make Diablo 3′s Auction House illegal in the country. Blizzard originally sent the game to the Korean rating board without the auction house enabled but it now looks like the RMAH will never launch in Korea.

    According to reports, the government took the decision in a bid to prevent students from wasting their time. The law will be set in stone next month.

    “The main purpose of the games is for entertainment and should be used for academic and other good purposes,” said South Korea’s secretary of The Ministry of Culture, Sports and Tourism, Kim Kap-Soo, adding that item farming for commercial gain is a “serious hindrance” to a “healthy gaming culture”.

    Of course, the implementation of such a law means that Blizzard’s Diablo 3 Auction House has no chance of launch in the country.

    A separate, but related, law has also been passed that bans the use of gold/item farming bots in online-enabled games. Players found using programs that “allow in-game characters to hunt and collect items without the need of a player controlling them” will be made illegal and blocked from internet access.

    The punishment for breaking the law will be a 50 million won fine (£27,612) and a maximum jail sentence of five years.

    According to the South Korean government, some 60 per cent of virtual items traded online are acquired through the use of bots which gives online games a “negative reputation”.
    botting in video game- 5 years in jail, 27000 dolar fine
     
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  2. Sauteed Onion

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    I could say a few things, both comical, and witty, and although not a racist myself may come across as quite racy. Suffice it to say, they have people register to online games in South Korea (Specifically NCSoft) with the South Korean version of Social Security #'s so if you got caught cheating or breaking the rules you can't just go to the store and buy another copy or whatever. This leads to new levels of crime but the few who are willing to steal identities just to commit theft/bot/hack in games is considerably lower than the average Joe who just wanted to cut some corners by hacking/cheating/botting; but still existant.

    This coupled with much higher levels of ingame supervision, and other forms of punishment make cheating seem a pretty dodgey activity to people in that part of the world; but there's always rules and exceptions (somebodies son/nephew/bestest friend in the whole wide world!). Meow just thought I'd share a little.
     
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  3. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    I'd settle for some punishment doled out by the company running the game.

    Yes, BioWare Mythic, I'm looking directly at you.
     
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  4. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    Oooh, South Korea is now my new favourite country...
     
  5. kRUXCg7

    kRUXCg7 Sage

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    Yes and then let's hang the people cheating in Monopoly. And what about students cheating when having to run laps in physical education? Break their legs? Women cheating on their husbands? Feed them to the wolves?
     
  6. Barok

    Barok Grand Inquisitor
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    Your sarcastic contempt illustrates what is wrong with the youth of today. Would it surprise you if most other people would actually say yes to this?
     
  7. x8turbo4x

    x8turbo4x Visitor

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    For get feeding them to wolves chop their heads off!! Lol

    Sent from my DROID BIONIC
     
  8. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Yes just as soon as we start executing all rapists by stoning. Child molesters should be drawn and quartered. Absolutely all for it. Oh and perhaps we should bring back the chopping off of limbs for stealing....

    Barbarism... at its best.

    Though I still say that rapists and child molesters should be either shot or locked up and NEVER set free.
     
  9. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    I know it was tongue in cheek, but IF that were to ever happen crime rates would plummet drastically. How many of the thugs walking around robbing folks today would rob folks tomorrow if they knew being convicted meant they lost their hand? While not all of them would stop a huge number of them would. Keep in mind, jail time to a thug is just a slight vacation behind bars, hanging out with friends and like minded people watching TV, playing cards and getting high. Sad but true.
     
  10. Ender76

    Ender76 Journeyman
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    So silly. On the list of things I worry about, unattending scripting is like #235234. Amazing that politicians spend time on this
     
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  11. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Sadly I believe you are correct. However predators would still pray on their victims regardless of risk
     
  12. Ludes

    Ludes Babbling Loonie
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    I say Yes!
     
  13. Ashlynn_L

    Ashlynn_L Lore Master
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    So farming items for commercial gain is a hindrance to their healthy gaming culture, yet this is the same country where people compete in "e-sports" for money? Something seems a bit off here... =P
     
  14. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Problem with this is too many people get put in prison and are found out to be innocent later. Such cases are in the news fairly often News articles tell of murderers being found innocent after years in prison, or execution, when DNA evidence that can now be tested, proves they didn't do the crime. People who accuse others of assaults have their consciene get to them years later and they admit it wasn't an assault, their attacker had just irritated them. The other person is still fairly screwed over, the damage to their reputation is still there, plus whatever punisnment they went through. How many divorce cases wind up in the news with one accusing the other of assaulting the children in the family? Seemed to be a pretty standard tactic in divorce cases for a few years.


    Harsh penalties, actually used, would really reduce the crime rate, has shown in many countries around the world. You just need to be sure. You can't undo a punishment once it's performed on someone though.

    Someone on nation wide t.v. holding hostages in a business after shooting a few people, that's hardly an 'alledged' crime. But there are times when guilt isn't such a sure thing.
     
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  15. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    As far as making aspects of gaming a crime goes, it might explain why Asian countries rate higher on intelligence tests. More time spent learning when young instead of spending every moment you can force yourself to stay wake in a computer game.

    I spent the better part of a year hooked on Ultima 4, the Avatar one, on my Commodore 128 doing pretty much that. Work all day, come home and load the game up and play until the alarm to get up went off or it got to the point of passing out. Very fun game! :)
     
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  16. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    As long as stealing is okay, we'll be fine.
     
  17. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Just goes to show you how well they take the education of their children. If we were so dilligent with ours. UO tried to stop sales in the early days... till players yelped too loud.
    Ebay finnaly put the kapesh to it on their end. But it didnt stop the determined.... I cant say it is right to punish that severly, but a monitary sum is a good idea. But I doubt the government will do so here.

    As for the rest of what has been said, WELL.............. I have to say I think the old medevil laws were good for people. When drastic punishment was given in public the crime rate fell.
     
  18. Dan123The123Man

    Dan123The123Man Lore Master
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    interesting... That's all I have to say lol. I'm sure I could come up with more but what's the point :eek:


    EDIT:

    I really do want to delve into a conversation about this but god i'm not getting ANY work done here where I work at! Lol, I need to finish my job before first shift comes in and sees me sitting here mashing the keyboard keys.
     
  19. kRUXCg7

    kRUXCg7 Sage

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    Be careful with your cynical remarks, someone could think you actually mean that :-D
     
  20. Ashlynn_L

    Ashlynn_L Lore Master
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    No they weren't and no it didn't.
     
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  21. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    I think they do that here in the states too, where gambling is an $18 Billion industry. Once 'playtime' goes commercial, cheaters usually are no longer tolerated, and several years behind bars can be expected.
     
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  22. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    To both of you who quoted me...
    I am sorry if a child molester .. a true child molester (not the 19 yr old who got caught dating a 17 year old) got caught and proven intent or deed donethey should not be on the loose or given that freedom. The news is filled with them these days and the courts too. I know my words are harsh on this. Do you really want these ill people to be anywhere close to your kids??
    We have let lawyers run loose to agrue and win at all cost on many crimes done today. I think the people have been divorced too much from the consequences of doing the deeds. Some people you simply cant rehabilitate, its not culture but physiological. You cant change the brains makeup, and drugs can only go so far.

    Back to the main OP's post: The korean law that will go in effect has their childrens future at its heart. It's strong, and says we mean business. If you read the total of what it says it says max is the 5 years and fine. Japan is a stickler for its children to put nose to the grindstone as well. We are in the high 20's on education a shamefull position. With all the money and teachers and freedom we have yet our children cant tell you the name of the govenor or the states capitol of any given state.... Next time you watch tv turn to the show "are you smarter then a 5th grader" I bet you will learn alot.
     
  23. kRUXCg7

    kRUXCg7 Sage

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    Why we are (seriously) talking about child molestors in this thread is way beyond me. Maybe it's just me. Yes, I know, I was the one who came up with comparisons to wives cheating and the other two examples.

    And now let me explain why:
    It was meant to ensure that you all are reminded that at any given time people will feel and know different about 'misbehaviour' compared to previous times and even the future. The fewer "stupid" laws we have, the better. We should know that women have complete control over their own bodies and thus shall not be sentenced like in the past for adultery. We should not forget that countries' rulesets that punished such women almost never or even never punished men doing the very same. This should be proof enough that these laws did nothing but ensure that women felt like the property of men and were treated like that. We should be knowledgable enough to ensure that women's and men's rights shall be equal. Everything else smells of slavery.

    As for cheating in games... my opinion is that cheating in any game is as old as playing games itself. Be it Monopoly, be it Poker, be it simple throwing dice. Games imho shouldn't be taken so seriously that a simple cheating will get you into jail. You will learn nothing in jail, you will suffer and you will suffer beyond your time behind bars. And you will have learned how to make other people suffer, way beyond the ridiculous calamities that you can cause in a game. Communities and individuals should be strengthened instead, so your families, your friends, even your neighbours and UO gaming partners should be able to make you learn your lessons in a less threatening, in a less destroying way. Talking about morales in a game concerning cheating is way beyond the meaning of a game. If you attach millions of US $ to any succeedings in games and therefore justify the harsh sentencing of cheating in games then you should stop dead in your tracks and rethink the meaning of games, the meaning of playing and the meaning playful behaviour in general.
     
  24. Haddy G

    Haddy G Journeyman
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    The real problem is not cheating. It's the epidemic internet addiction going on in South Korea. It's so bad the government has build internet addiction rehab centers. People are literally dieing from this. I would not be surprised if the government cracks down even harder on anything internet related there. Go google it for details.
     
  25. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    True. Cheating at games though will grow into cheating in other ways. If you can gain from cheating in one thing, you'll try it in other things in life. Where does society draw the line and put a stop to it? Not until someones cheating reaches the point of something like billion dollar inside trading crimes?



    You will learn that doing things to harm others for you own benefit has limits, and penalties. Most people deprived of their freedom and locked in a cage for a time decide they really don't like it and don't want to get locked up again.

    Which is the purpose of punishment, to strengthen Society. Society corrects the behavior of those who would harm other members of that Society through punishment. How severe that punishment must be to correct wrong behavior Society will learn by experience.

    If you've formed the habit of cheating to win over others who play by Society's rules in the first place, the influence of family, friends, and neighbors hasn't managed to guide your behavior in a socially acceptable direction. Some stronger influence is needed. That stronger influence can be unpleasent.

    Morales are what makes Society work. Morales guide one to behave in a way that doesn't harm other members of ones Society. Morales guide one to play by the rules ones Society has established to help make it healthy and not an anarchy. Those who don't play by the rules have to have their behavior corrected until it is socailly acceptable, or be removed from the Society so they can't harm it any longer.


    The meaning of games is to teach one to learn to succeed and win within the given rules of the game.

    Those who find playing by the given rules difficult in a mere game will tend to find it difficult to play by the given rules of Society. Such violations of the rules of Society tend to get more and more harmful to that Society until Society has to do something to stop it from doing more and more damage to that Society.

    South Korea may be the first to take such a pronounced step to correct wrong behavior while it's minor league, but their Society and culture will be the stronger for it in the years to come.

    Who knows, if the punishment they are trying is effective, and it reduces the tendency to cheat in games, it may well reduce the cheating in other aspects of life and reduce whatever crime rate they have significantly.
     
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  26. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    all Nicely put, and it's not just games. I think the advancements in society and resultant instantaneous gratifications compounds the challenges to young people, as many like to take 'short cuts' thru life, usually with undesirable results for all affected.
     
  27. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    I have a friend stationed in Korea and he said the average younger person after school and work is in internet game shops for hours and they neglect family, friends not into the gaming, health, and sleep. Hours at the computer can do alot of harm, It's a real eye opener when you think about it.
     
  28. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    Not just cheaters, but looks like RMT's in general, anything that could be traded for $, incl. codes
    "Game makers and arcade management can no longer claim virtual goods as property or distribute vouchers for in game goods. In both cases, the virtual goods in question could be sold for actual money." said D3's offices have been raided as well.
     
  29. Sauteed Onion

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    Well, I posted earlier in the thread, and I had mentioned that some companies in South Korea make you sign up with your SSN (or the South Korean version of it) just to be able to play the game, and will ban that # so you can't play ANY game that company provides and sometimes it's affiliate game companies. That's a pretty good way to keep cheaters off a game, especially considering that the # of people willing to go steal someone's # just to play a game is WAY smaller than the amount of people who won't. We can take a back track to people playing poker or some other card game in the Old West, and see how they dealt with cheatin.. >.> (well in the hollywood movies at least hehe). People that play fairly don't want to be subjected to people hack/bot and try to compete with them. Hell even the hackers or botters (once a patch comes through for the game client) aren't even logging in. People know better, don't cheat. (This message brought to you by an extremely silly person)
     
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  30. kRUXCg7

    kRUXCg7 Sage

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    Before I begin:
    Please accept that I do respect your opinions and I highly value your willingness to conduct this discussion in a civilized manner. Thank you for not making this a personal war like we have seen so many on so many boards and forums.

    I think it's a misconception of belief if you think that you 100% learn morales in a game, be it Monopoly or be it UO. Or rather, that morales you show in a game always reflect your morales in real life. And I think it is false belief that you can judge people's morales from how they behave in a game - especially in a game where you can play a role! That means: Especially in a game like UO.

    Let me give you an example:
    I strongly believe that a compassionate mother (*) who takes very good care about her kids, teaches them best morales and educates them to strong members of society - that very mother can turn into a vile PK, a griefing person and even a person who cheats for in game profit. In game, not with billion dollar trades and not with social insurance. Only in game.

    The opposite could be very true, too, in my experience:
    And there could be real life cheaters who you might love in UO as they will never betray you - not in UO. Even the aforementioned molestors of minors maybe could possibly do anything and everything to ensure that their in game reputation (**) is angelic and perfect in morales. Helpful and cheerful they might seem. That is what I always read that you should teach the kids: Be wary at all times and don't trust even the most angelic people on the internet. And now ask me again if I am going to believe that your so called morales (***) of people can be identified and testified by in game behaviour. I don't know if I have met the most atrocious people in game - murderers and such. How would I know. But I know that I have seen extremely ugly people in game and very beautiful people, too.

    As for the beautiful people:
    People who seem helpful and with an upstanding reputation in game - who then did terrible things in the real world. Sins like adultery, for example (*****). As for personal experience: My personal experience was the loss of a UO account about 6-7 years ago (****). It was stolen because I had trusted people that I had known from the game. They were well accepted members of the then community. And yes, I don't think they ever cheated in game, they rather objected in game cheating. Strongly. Then again, my trust was sufficiently rewarded by their stealing an account and putting the stuff on ebay. And I've been friends with many cheaters, too. People doing the mining bot dance - and even the most hated dupers. I can't say they are all perfect in real life as I can hardly know all of them. But for some of them my experience tells me that some of the in game cheaters lead a very good life as far as morales are concerned. Nobody is perfect, anyway, of course. Some of those who I later knew were cheaters at one time were entrusted with my account data, too, for some reason (call me stupid for that, I don't care :) ). There were times when some friends and I shared a lot in game, including accounts. But it was that upstanding couple of two 'close in game friends' with no apparent cheating history in game who betrayed me in real life by stealing one of my UO accounts (there were also lies about real life stuff involved, too, but let's not go too far there, it's all history). Life is like that. You trust one person and you get disappointed. You trust someone else and don't get disappointed. And you won't know for sure if you can trust anyone by judging their in game behaviour, that is my personal experience and that is my strong belief if you want to put it that way.

    I really don't see that 100% relation that has been mentioned several times here in this thread. The relation that says that cheating in a game will lead to cheating in real life. Yes, I strongly disagree with your opinion that low 'in game morales' lead to low real life morales or reflect them. If you catch a child cheating in - let's say Monopoly - wouldn't it be a wonderful idea to teach it what cheating really means and how it affects other people instead of punishing the kid? It will surely take more than one afternoon of talking so that the kid will truly understand. It might take years. Slapping the kid in punishment (just an example) will be a lot faster and a lot easier (in the first place), of course. But I highly doubt the kid will truly understand what your lesson should mean. I personally never learned anything when I experienced slapping and other forms of punishment the like as a kid. Teach the kids and don't punish them!

    I am sorry for using way too many words in this reply. Ashlynn_L did it a lot better in her or his posting - and basically I wasn't able to really add too much more thoughts here.

    Please accept my apologies for spelling and other errors here. I tried hard to do it well, but then again - I am not a native speaker.

    ----------
    (*) also read: father. Doesn't matter imho.
    (**) also read: some forum reputation
    (***) read: I don't even think that 'morales' are the right word when we are talking about games and in game calamities caused by in game cheating. Rather... friendliness towards others' feelings and the acceptance or lack of acceptance of rules and regulations.
    (****) The loss was survived, especially after so many years no tears are needed.
    (*****) In my experience people have very different opinions on that topic, please let's not discuss that here.
     
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  31. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    You can play a liar, rogue, thief, murderer, etc within Ultima Online, that is indeed part of the game, and is allowed by the rules, but cheating to get around the rules is not allowed. Thats a whole different thing and is a problem behavior.

    The vile PK is a within-the-rules playstyle. Not popular, liked, or welcome mind you, but within the rules of the game. Griefing is a voilation of the rules, cheating to get around the rules is a violation of the rules. The first is per the rules, the second & third are in direct violation of the rules.

    It doesn't work for most people unfortunately. Words seldom seem to change the behavior of those who do wrong, it doesn't tend to have the influence of some unpleasent punishment. A Judge letting someone off with a slap on the wrist usually results in more wrong behavior. A more attention getting punishment like 30 days in jail, and of course losing their job because their not showing up for work, is more successful at showing problem behavior has bad consenquences and getting through to them that unaaceptable actions carry such consenquences.. Sometimes it takes a rather big hammer to drive the point home with some people.

    Every culture in the world has rules of behavior showing what is acceptable behavior, and what is not. Each chooses the type of punishment for unacceptable behavior and the severity of that punishment.
     
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  32. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    You're right about the fact that rl morality and in game morality are not the same thing. Someone might be the meanest or nicest person irl but they might be a nice and widely loved story writing thief in game ;)
     
  33. EternalH

    EternalH Journeyman

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    That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. 5 years in jail for scripting resources in UO...Brilliant. It'll really look good on an entry level job application "Have you been convicted of any crimes in the past 8 years", "Yes, I was caught cheating in my favorite online video game and sentenced to five years in te Pen"....Totally asinine to say the least...
     
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  34. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    If I "played by the rules", and found myself "unwelcome", it probably wouldn't bother me if I cheated. Why not? play by the rules, disliked, Don't play by the rules, disliked, not much difference. I'm not trying to says Reds are cheaters, just that 'implied rules' will send the wrong message to players. The rulez put in towards reds, imo, are cheats by developers, cheating the red out of parts of the game.
    You played by the rules, oops, now there's parts of the game you can't play any more. What's next, you can only be in Tram if you wear the right clothes???
    Oh wait! you just did that, almost - wear what you want, just it will decay much faster if it's not what I say. I learned to RP where red/blue was simply an 'alignment' - the good, bad, and ugly, all played together, not necessarily against each other, so I don't understand the red penalty at all.
    To have unwritten rules encourages cheating because in their eyes, the rule makers have lost respect of the player.