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Scroll Binders - A Spawners nightmare?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Omnius, Aug 15, 2009.

  1. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    Scroll binders will allow players to convert 105s to 110s, 110s to 115s and 115s to 120s.

    In theory it sounds like a great way to make 110s and 105s useful.

    In practice it is a means of making 120 scrolls drastically drop in price. This change, in conjunction with the fact that replicas have upped the number of spawners actively doing champs on shards and the new champ spawn rule changes will make 120 pscrolls worth almost as little as 110s and 115s are now.

    hundreds of lesser scrolls are tossed each day as players vie to get 120s. These lesser scrolls diluting the number of 120s given out actually keep 120 scrolls worth more than a few hundred k. Only the most desirable 120s are worth more than a couple mill these days and after scroll binders come to play only the most desired of 120s will be worth more than 2-3mill.

    PLEASE do not release this. You will kill the entire reason to fight over champ spawns in fel. We'll be stuck with spawns that nobody wants to do after 6 months because everyone has bags and bags full of 120s for all their chars.
     
  2. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    And the problem is?

    A 120 magery scroll sells now for 14-16 mil?
    And in the future, they might drop to 5-6 mil each?
    *pauses*

    I tried, I can't find a tear to shed over this, sorry...
    It can onlly be good for the game, and keep some of us casual gamers involved a bit more perhaps. Let;'s face it, we are playing a game with a finite number of chars, not many new ones coming in, so as the existing chars get scrolled up your demand is gonna go down anyway...thereby driving down the prices.
    And to think, with the sheer quantity of lesser scrolls that it will take to make a 120 (and they all have to be of the desired skill) there is gonna be no immediate impact.
    Unless the spawners have 1000s of 105s and 110s horded up, which I doubt, it will take quite some time for anyone to notice an appreciable increase in the number of *desirable* 120s.

    Just my 2 cents
     
  3. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    Sorry, I AM a PvPer and spawner, and I just don't see the problem. The 12 scrolls that drop are always random, so it will take a large bit of spawning just to get 10 of the same type/level to make the 120. It will mean that all those scrolls that currently get left on the ground - even most 115's anymore! - will be useful again.

    It will also mean that when you do a harrower, you can choose to keep the lesser scrolls and sell them as-is to other people using binders, OR you can change them mostly to higher scrolls to sell or use. That is a GOOD thing for the people doing the Harrowers, not a BAD thing.

    You can make you SOT's MORE useful by converting them to larger amounts and selling or using a single scroll rather than a ton of smaller ones.
     
  4. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    this will remove much of the risk involved in risk v reward. One of the many aspects of spawning is having to spawn hundreds of times to get the scrolls you want/need/or sell. You inevitably get the right skills but rarely at 120 level.

    Once you spawn hardcore for 6 months, you will rarely ever need to spawn again. And people WILL be spawning hardcore for the first 6 months to get the new pscrolls. One more reason that things like 120 magery, the most desired scroll in UO will become worthless quickly.
     
  5. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I *believe* it will take 10 of the 105s just to make a 110...
    It takes 10 of the same type, just to raise it one notch.
    Maybe I misread, but I don't think so.
     
  6. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Which is good. More balance.
     
  7. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    That is right. I did the math, and if you used ONLY 105's, it would take 1000 105's OF THE SAME SKILL to get your 120 (I think I did that right, but might not have). It is TRULY a large volume to get to the 120 unless you only use 115's to do it.
     
  8. guum

    guum Guest

    Seriously, of all the changes in the new expansion, why is this the focus for "the sky is falling" crowd on stratics? This isn't going to break anything, unless you're in the controlling guild on one of those shards that has a harrower/fel champ monopoly, in which case, TS.
     
  9. Fink

    Fink Guest

    Is the binder cursed/blessed/insurable?

    I would imagine cursed so you can't fill it up at the spawn and circumvent stealing or looting.
     
  10. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    *chuckles*

    And seriously, I am not trolling this thread, but I would like to make the following statements.

    I like Sakkarah, and what she is doing and has done for our game. But she is a pvp'er ;)

    And using the phrase " risk vs reward" to me has absolutely no meaning, I tend to turn a deaf ear. Because no matter how you label it, or what you call it, sending 4 trammies (such as me) into Fel to do a champ and try for some PSs, against say...2 skilled pvp'ers, such as yourself, isnt risk vs reward...It's FEEDING TIME and BANK TIME. LOL

    And besides, most of us will now be buying up those scrolls you used to toss down in the star room, which wil even increase your profits enough to offset whatever eventual decline in 120 prices you may see...assuming your 105 and 110 scrolls are priced at a sensible price.

    So in the end, it should be a win win for all of us...
     
  11. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Absolutely YES.

    How many years now have a mere few guilds been able to hold hostage of powerscrolls ?

    Five ? Six ? Seven ?

    More than enough to say it is ABOUT TIME that this monopoly gets at least a little changed.

    Though, not much will change unless 110s, 115s and +5, +10, +15 and +20 are mede to spawn also in Trammel.
    Those who were monopolizing 120s will now add to them also the minor scrolls.

    I do not see much of a change foreseable, unfortunately......
     
  12. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    The page Chrissay linked to on UOHerald said:
    4 105s = 1 110
    6 110s = 1 115
    8 115s = 1 120

    But. As Wilki said earlier, all these things are in a state of flux and may be changed.
     
  13. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Someone calculated that to make a 120 some 1,000 105s of the same kind would be needed...

    Does anyone have 1,000 Magery 105 scrolls handy ?
     
  14. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    As it is now, this is right, as I read it.
    So for me, I will be working on a mage 120...
    I will have a binder for 105s...
    and when I have 110s, they go in a binder
    when the 105 binder is full and makes a 110, it goes into the 110 binder
    and so on and so on, untill you eventually have built up to the 120.
    A long process for the majority, with no appreciable glut in the immediate market...and making 105-115 worth selling again.

    This allows us casual gamers to piddle around, pick up a 105 or 110 here and there as we get the gps, and work our way up to 120, instead of having to cough up 15 mil all at once :)

    Like I said, win win...
     
  15. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    10 - 105 magerys = 1- 110 magery + 9 110 magerys= 1-115magery+ 9 115 magerys=1-120 = 28 scrolls needed
     
  16. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    It looks like my number would be incorrect according to what Petra has posted. However, it is still a large sum. Having said that, NO ONE I know has even ONE 105 laying around, and probably only around 30-50 random 110s, 20-30 115's. Mostly, they have not been worth keeping for a good, long time.
     
  17. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    So 192 105s make 1 120.
     
  18. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    Ahh Petra posted while i was typing =)

    But even at that rate of change, instead of being in lots of 10 each time, it will still take a long time to build a 120 PS. And will still make the lower level scrolls saleable again.

    So even tho the math has changed, the reasoning still stands.
    I stand behind this change and idea, 100%.
     
  19. Chrissay_

    Chrissay_ Guest

    The binder is cursed I believe and cannot be insured
     
  20. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    people are trying to act like these scrolls will be built from 105s. 110s are more common than 105s. They spawn more often during a champ spawn and 115s are rather common as well.

    Don't try and act like everyone will be building these from 105s. 105s will simply be a means of obtaining 1 or 2 more 110s when you have an excess. the 110 can be considered the basic building block and from there its a hop skip and no jump to 120s.

    This is a way of attacking the income made by pvpers by devaluing their only real source of gold in UO.
     
  21. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    Was not trying to act that way. Was simply stating that that is one possibility.

    By the same token, could you stop pretending that the sky is falling. WHO, exactly, do you think will be getting the most use out of those binders? YOU. The person who is ALREADY doing the spawns. It is called controlling the supply. You feel like the price on 120's is dropping? Stop binding lower scrolls and keep the prices up.
     
  22. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I haven't thought this through yet, really.

    But I am inclined to think of this as a positive change, for non-Felucca players....For the following reason: 105 scrolls are insurable. This means that if you can grab some 105s, you have no longer wasted your time if you get raided.

    In other words it is now possible, though it'll take a long time, for a Trammel guild to do some spawns, never complete a single one, yet still manage to get the scrolls they need.

    It seems impractical to use scroll binding as a means to get scrolls to sell...It'd take too long and have a low profit margin.

    But....Without moving power scrolls to Trammel, they have managed to create a way to make scrolls to use within reach of more people.

    Maybe.

    But yeah as long as they keep 105s insurable, I see this as a potentially positive change.

    -Galen's player
     
  23. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    105's are insurable?! I have to admit, the last 105 I paid any attention to was the first one I ever got - about 2 weeks after Publish 16 went live (and to this day, my main character has a Parry cap of 105 even tho I don't use the skill on her!!)
     
  24. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    Your assumptions are based on the idea that every shard is dominated by spawn guilds at all hours of every day. it is thoroughly untrue and save atlantic a player can solo spawns at some 4-5 hour window any day of the week even on the most "dominated" shards.

    Many shards are referred amongst spawners as farming shards as people can spawn unmolested 99% of the time. these shards will be where massive quantities of xshards scrolls now explode out of. They already provide nearly half the market share of scrolls for the major shards and will only come to dominate the market with scrollbinders. Drachenfels, lake austin, origin, legends, catskills, several asian shards, oceania are all shards where hundreds of 120s are x sharded off because they are so easy to chain spawns on.
     
  25. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    Just another reason why cross sharding should be eliminated.
    But I am sure Mythic will not cut off that supply of $$ they get from those tokens LOL
     
  26. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    *Looks at title, sees "Napa Valley News Reporter"*

    I think I am pretty familiar with at least ONE of those "farming" shards.

    Also, I was in a relatively small guild that actually dominated Atlantic spawns for a few months despite HOT trying to prevent it. To the point we DID use only 2 people to spawn alot of the time. To the point that we saturated the 120's scroll pool.

    So actually, I am familiar with both!

    I still think its an excellent idea, tho it could use some tweaking still.
     
  27. calibek

    calibek Journeyman
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    Not to de-rail but I've been out of the game for a while.

    Who is Sakkarah? Is she the new lead designer? And if she is where may I find her so that I can revere her as my new god for making all of these fantastic changes?
     
  28. Klapauc

    Klapauc Sage
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    Atm there are nearly no 110 or 115 powerscrolls for warrior types on europa to get.Will be a funny time for people who are new or just started a new char to get things going. The time when one could buy a cheap 110 or 115 to start a new char are over it seems.Not very well thought out. And even the cheaper 120's will be out of reach for people that just have started with uo.
     
  29. There a still lots of 110 and 115 powerscrolls on Europa. You just have to look around for them. Just this morning i picked up 3 x 115 magerys for 200k and 3 x 115 evals each from one vendor in a prominent position, and there are tons of 110s on vendors out in the stix. You just have to have the patience and run around a little.

    Melissa
     
  30. I would like to see something similar with the peerless. I am tired of paying large sums of money for crimmies, and crystaline rings. How about making it so if i turn 25 of each peerless ing. i get a crimmie of a crystaline ring

    My guild on GL would hold a scroll give away a couple of times a year, pass out 110's and 115's. We would go through 3000 to 4000 scrolls at one of these give aways. I am sitting on about 2000 115's at the moment. JIf this scroll trade goes into affect it d just on step closer for me to quiting the game.
     
  31. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest

    why bother? sell your 2000 115 scrolls and you can buy crimmie and crystaline ring???
    or are one of those "I SELL ONLY and never buy player" ??????
     
  32. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    All I do in this game is PvP, and I don't really see this devaluing the 120s. You still need 115s to make the 120s. The only way to get 15s is to do spawns.

    I think its a good change and it will make bulding characters easier and invite more people to the PvP scene. Thats really all I care about, get more people into fel.
     
  33. Klapauc

    Klapauc Sage
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    All of the vendors i could find have removed there usable 110s and 115s or are selling them at inflated prices,and i did a walk from umbra to luna. And 3x 115 magery at 200k each must have been a very lucky deal. Even 110 magery are hard to find on europe since a couple of months.Been looking for a 115 for 2 or 3 months now,found some crazy good deals while doing this,but got unlucky with this.Btw what do you need 3x 115 magery for,probably not for your own chars.Just another greedy reseller.

    Just waiting for the moment all of the stat scrolls except +25's go poof and one is forced to make one of the gimp templates and join a zerg guild just to get somewhere in this game. Looks like SA is not for those people who just play for fun ,build chars for fun even if they are not powerful and do not care about making big heaps of money.
     
  34. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Pvpers should have seen this coming shouldn't they have? The way powerscrolls became a business with cams set up shutting out anyone without 10 man death crews ready to swoop in when the champ pops.

    Their bed was made, and yes it was inevitable that it would end up that way, but I think this was long time coming.
     
  35. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    for most pvpers a raid from another pvp guild was not some insta death situation. it was a healthy fight for something both wanted. depending on who was better usually determined whether or not the spawn was kept or lost.

    cams weren't ever as pervasive as many claim.
     
  36. Xanthril of LA

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    The last turn-in also depleted most of what people may have had.
     
  37. Black Sun

    Black Sun Grand Poobah
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    Making high end items necessary to compete with established players more affordable for new/returning players is a bad idea?

    No, I don't think so. This sounds like a good idea to me.
     
  38. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Yes they are.

    -Galen's player
     
  39. Hi. I play for fun. I play being a merchant. I have hundreds of small shops marked on Europa... anything a medium level mage could do. Do I get a lot of bargains, absolutely. Just as an example, just this week I have found SOTs for a few k each, soulstone frags tokens for 400k each, an old flowerpot for a third of its usual price, old invis jewellery, a weapon engraving tool (8th year vet reward)for a mill (well this was on ATL 5 mins after being ther but defo worth a mention), skill tutors statue for a mil, heritage tokens 300k, old shadow token 100k, etc,etc...and thats just the last day or two.

    As for powerscrolls, yes i agree , several merchants have inflated prices or withdrawn stock, but this was mentioned in passing in one of the FOF weeks ago that lesser scrolls would become more useful. As for being a "Greedy Reseller" , isnt that what merchants do... buy cheap, sell on for a profit? If the only place you travel is the road between Umbra an Luna you're going to be very disappointed with the deals you find. There are fantastic bargains out there. Are you going to get rich quick, No. You have to do the footwork, exploring, marking and constantly checking new shops. People always seem to complain about big vendors, but we put in an awful lot of work. Hopefully over the next few weeks I'll be adding a merchants guide to my website to help out potential new vendors/merchants. In the mean time , good luck with getting your scrolls. There's still lots out there to be had!

    Melissa
     
  40. popps

    popps Always Present
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    If 10 115s make a 120, but 10 110s make a 115 this means that a 120 needs 10*10 = 100 110s.

    Now, if 10 105s are needed to make 1 110 then 10 * 100 = 1,000 105s are needed to make a 120 powerscroll.

    So, if we are talking about 105s, NOT 28 scrolls for a 120 are needed but 1,000.

    Hardly a feasible possibility........
     
  41. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Finally I can see a PvPer who thinks that MORE players with top gear fitted for high end PvP is actually a good thing for PvP in this game........

    So far, most of the people I have heard talking about PvP consider PvP as them fighting having the upper hand because of better gear/weapons/jewellery and fight efforts to increase the number of players gearing up for their same outfits crying out that they want to be served it on a silver platter......

    Yet, the way I see it, CHALLENGING PvP means having players all geared up as much the same as possible and the more the better.

    But to get this done, powerscrolls need be widely available and at a reasonable price as well as high end items/artifacts.

    What is the sense of PvPing with uber outfit against those with lower gear ?

    Where is the challenge ?

    The challenge is fighting against those who are a match to us because they also have our same high end outfit......

    So, those who say they love PvP they should favour easier access to all other players to their same outfits and gear because only this can bring them up to par and a challenging foe.

    At least, that's how I see it.
     
  42. Exgirlfriend

    Exgirlfriend Journeyman
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  43. Demonous

    Demonous Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
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    the problem is some of us run power scrolls vendors and we don't want to lose business because of stupid changes
     
  44. popps

    popps Always Present
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    May I ask a question since I am not sure I understand........

    Is it then all about money and who cares about the game itself ?

    Is Ultima Online still a game or not ?
     
  45. Once again you have your facts wrong, depsite the actual facts being posted multiple times in threads you've complained about this same thing in. It will take 192 105 scrolls to make a 120, not 1000.

    At this point, your foot has been in your mouth so many times that CSI could take a perfect impression of your shoeprint off of your tongue. Quit while you're behind, because so far, you're just making yourself look like a......well.....use your imagination. I don't need the infraction points that would come from accurately describing you. :loser::dunce:
     
  46. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    I do not like this idea for Siege. Our economy isn't screwed up like other shards. Our scrolls are still reasonably priced and this seems like it will significantly reduce the price of 120's. With fewer players than other shards, it is difficult enough to sell them. =/
     
  47. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, I was simply quoting someone else about the 1,000 105s.

    Nonethtless, whether 1,000 or 192 the issue was that as Scroll Bindings are making a 120 out of 105s simply is not feasible.

    Can one imagine how much time it would take to put together 192 Magery 105 powerscrolls ?

    This was the bottom line argument which stands in all cases, whether the figure may be 1,000 or 192.
     
  48. It would be less time (for you anyway) to get the scrolls than it would be to get the gold for the same 120. It shouldn't be easy anyway Mr. Silver Platter.
     
  49. Wilde1

    Wilde1 Guest

    We'll probably do scroll binders as a guild (smallish blue trammy guild). designate some chests at the guild hall for folks to drop the lower scrolls in and have an officer sort em into binders. Our normal process is to roll on the 120s we get from champs...binders will make the lower scrolls useful and we'll have more scrolls to outfit guild members.

    I think its a great idea.
     
  50. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    You won't necessarily ahve to lose business...that's the point I have been trying to make.
    Start selling the lower scrolls as well, and do it at a reasonable price, and you will make up the difference.

    Geez people, let go of the greed for a change, and play the game.