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Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly items

Discussion in 'UHall' started by ACB1961, Sep 22, 2011.

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  1. ACB1961

    ACB1961 Lore Keeper
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    We've been saying this for a very long time.

    We need either 10m or 100m checks, or some uo sanctioned way to trade vastly expensive items. Costs are out of control. Some houses are 1b or even more depending on location. 100s of million gold items are traded every day.

    We've just had a broker impersonation lead to a more than a billion gold theft.

    We no longer have in-game protection against scammers...

    Please EA give us some protection against these scammers.
     
  2. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    Thats not what happened at all... Please read what hoodwink did. What you ask for wouldn't change or fix how he stole the suit.
     
  3. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    The theft was from a deceptive method and having higher check amounts wouldn't have changed whether it happened or not. Not saying higher check amounts wouldn't be a good idea or not, but the theft above doesn't work as an advocate for it.
     
  4. enderz

    enderz Journeyman

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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    I would agree on bigger checks being needed these days with inflation.
     
  5. KingHen

    KingHen Seasoned Veteran
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    I am totally for bigger checks. The other thing, well I gotta go read that thread now.
     
  6. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    Pay to transfer the account. I'd much rather see the dev team spend time working on bugs and content than protecting a bunch of items. The value of these items are only in the beholder and not based upon much more then 5 people throwing numbers into the air.

    There is a fairly secure way of doing this transaction in that you can place 12 items on a vendor for 100 mil a pop and as two get purchased you trade off 1 item from this suit but again the value is subjective.

    And, like the last time the rare item traders got burnt, it was a case of human error. As much as it's a bummer to the loser of the item(who seems to have been made whole and they were trying to sell it anyways so no real harm done) I have to say a job well done to the people whom set this "theft" up. It might have been cheesy, scummy, mean and any other words you want to use but really wtf was the auctioneer doing just giving these items out with out some type of check and balance? Foolish I'd say. Thankfully these people would not accept my items for sale, they might get "lost"...
     
  7. Triberius

    Triberius Firefall Moderator | LotRO Moderator
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    There are more secure ways, people just don't think of them.

    1. Arrange contact outside of the game ICQ, AIM, MSN, E-mail etc. Even PM's here on the Forums.
    2. Establish a Password to verify identity. Before any items can change hands, that pass phrase has to be confirmed both in game and out.

    I'm not justifying or pointing out fault at what happened I personally find it appalling, it's one thing to take advantage of a person, another to jerk around an entire sub-culture of the game.

    What I am doing is offering positive suggestions that might help stop incidents like this in the future.
     
  8. ACB1961

    ACB1961 Lore Keeper
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    hes been telling us for 2 days what he did

    said they impersonated this guy completely & got guy to hand it to him

    don't have a clue what he actually did, but thats what he said he did
     
  9. ACB1961

    ACB1961 Lore Keeper
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    i didnt say it was. I'm saying that deceptive method will no longer work when we can just give them however much money it is.

    Bank wire sounds good to me.

    Why do people always go off on a tangent here? No matter what you say people will immediately get a different idea about what you said.

    We've got a problem. Let's fix it.
     
  10. Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    Im sorry I am against it.

    Duping of 1 million checks lead to this ridiculous amount of gold in the game.

    Bigger checks mean risk of duping a 100 million gold check.

    If they could figure out how to move the gold in a way that couldnt be duped, that be fine.
     
  11. Barok

    Barok Grand Inquisitor
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    There is no correlation between what the thief did and any limit on gold transactions, since the thief wasn't buying the item.
     
  12. Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    Where is the thread explaining what he did? I dont see it anywhere
     
  13. Barok

    Barok Grand Inquisitor
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  14. Lord X

    Lord X Sage
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    Sounds like a caps off to the bad guys because the auctioneer(s) wouldn't accept a not rare item from you for a rares auction house. I willingly handed over an item worth over 200m to them to auction, it got sold and I got the money for it. Twice. I would trust them again as well. What happened really blows, But mistakes happen.
     
  15. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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  16. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    LOL
    I vote a resounding NO! In fact, I believe if check amounts were lowered, it would be the way to go. If you raise the check limit to 10mil, 100mil, whatever, it won't change what happened here. All it would do is make it where people could hoard even more gold in less space...driving prices higher even more. Check sizes have nothing to do with it, if someone just hands an item that valuable freely across the counter. I mean come on, I could use a name change and change it to any of you guys, and say "I.m transferring to "shard name" yall need me to take something?" and youo just give me stuff without checking me out, that's still on you.
    Scamming may not be a playstyle, and have the skills to support it, but it does happen, has been happening since day one, and will continue till the last day.
     
  17. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    Sorry but I mis-spoke. I've never bothered to add a item to one of these auction's in years but I ment to indicate that I suspect that my buisness would not be welcomed and this would suit me fine for I would worry that my stuff might get "lost" in one of those transfers.
     
  18. Chad Sexington

    Chad Sexington Lore Master
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  19. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    While the theft has nothing to do at all with what the OP wants, I'm glad this thread was made so that I can read about it.
     
  20. Magdalene

    Magdalene Stratics Legend
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    While every theft is a disgrace and should be punishable somehow, I can't help thinking that no item(s) should be worth 1.2 billion gold nor an individual should hold such amount in game. It's all a travesty.
     
  21. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    Does anyone recall the name, or can link a thread, of the esteemed rares collector who started his collection by hacking some poor person. I tried searching here but had no luck, I'm sure someone else can remember this.
     
  22. red sky

    red sky Sage
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    Eh, dunno if the larger check idea is gonna fly. Maybe converting deposit methods into a commerce system in which you can trade via a menu would be much better and safer in terms of exploitation.
     
  23. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    The system that WoW has for their currency is very nice. I personally think converting to that kind of system for UO would certainly make trading high-end items very easy. It also wouldn't limit the amount of gold in banks due to item space.
     
  24. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    While the theft/scam or whatever you deem it as at the rares fest would not have been prevented by larger checks, the point of needing larger checks in game is still a very valid point. I do agree that 100m checks would be a bit much but 10 or 5m would suffice. The argument against having checks larger than 1m had always been it was too difficult to count all the 0's on the check and was rather confusing. Now that argument has been renderred null and void.

    Now the argument of, "the reason all the gold is in the game is from duped checks and increasing the amount availabe would only increase the duping yadda yadda".... Whatever, I ain't really a gambling man, but would be willing to wager whatever amount of gold is in game because the gold it's self was duped is miniscule when it comes to the total gold out there.

    Ture, the change in amount would hurt reputable brokers and ONE of their sources of income. But even the reputable brokers know there is a problem when it comes to immitators of THEM as well http://vboards.stratics.com/uo-atlantic/251084-atlantic-please-know.html

    IMHO anyone who argues against larger checks is either a broker, scammer, or someone who is just simply ill informed and resists change any time they get a chance. I could be wrong tho :D
     
  25. Barok

    Barok Grand Inquisitor
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    Even if the devs wanted to increase the size of checks, they wouldn't be able to go above 10 mil without increasing the max stack size.

    A person with all the storage increases still only has 175 slots in his bank, and if it was just gold that would be only 10,500,000 mil gold. So they could only go up to 10 mil.
     
  26. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    You and your pesky math.

    That would be funny if they put in 100 mil checks and the boards were flooded with people complaining about not being able to cash them.
     
  27. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    Checkbook: Works like a bod-book and holds up to 100 1million dollar checks. Checks can be removed one at a time and checkbooks can be traded as a part of a transaction.

    Problem solved?
     
  28. Elric_Soban

    Elric_Soban Babbling Loonie
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    No no and NO to larger checks.

    The economy is in bad enough shambles without people being able to warehouse EVEN MORE money.

    The problem isnt that you cant transfer billions securely. The problem is that transactions of that magnitude are HAPPENING. Nothing should be that expensive. Inflation as you can clearly see is destroying this game and larger checks would only bring about that end quicker.
     
  29. longshanks

    longshanks Guest

    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    here here. i have no trouble with the theft. nice grab. maybe the guys running this auction should re think there security. isnt this the second time a theft in excess of a billion has taken place????

    you guys are making mad coin running these auctions. you should reimburse the guy and not go out to the community with hat in hand.
     
  30. Neutron Bomb

    Neutron Bomb Journeyman
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    It's not really inflation. The price of 60k regs is somewhat the same as it was several years ago. People (myself included) are willing to spend what it takes to acquire an item. That's why that suit was set at 1.2bill. If you guys are giddy over a bill, try talking to someone who has over 25bill

    I know who it is you're talking about, and no I am not going to name him/her.
     
  31. longshanks

    longshanks Guest

    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    a great job. thoughtfully planned out. that the pieces are distributed to those who spent the most time in a tough profession was fitting as well as was each being worked into their suits.

    Epic. Salute :thumbup1:
     
  32. Uriah Heep

    Uriah Heep Crazed Zealot
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    yeah! What he said!!!
     
  33. Zane_Xander

    Zane_Xander Journeyman
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    and more than anything... the drama queens, lies, half truths, and deceptions runs rampid in this game for sure. if you were dumb enought to hand over a nakid item you deserve to loose it.:popcorn:
     
  34. Kylie Kinslayer

    Kylie Kinslayer Grand Inquisitor
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    Yepp, this.

    Solves a multitude of problems.
     
  35. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    ...

    I've seen plenty of reasons NOT to have larger checks, but this "event" is NOT one of the reasons to have larger checks as the size of any bank check has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with what happened.

    The game was already borked going from 60,000 piles to 1,000,000 checks, going higher would make it that much worse.

    Want security? Get rid of physical gold (after it is looted) all together and just use the system used in modern MMOGs. It's not quite as realistic or interactive (with the world), but it is safer.
     
  36. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    Ah, the classic "I canĀ“t feel good about myself without ruining someone elses fun" scenario...

    *sighs*
     
  37. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    There is no inflation on certain items because there is less demand due to change in the game... you mention Regs... or there might have been so much demand that many started to produce the ressources, and the price goes down with free competition ?

    well I don't see any reason not to have a LRC suit... I could even purchase one for myself on siege after only one week of playing as a total noob...

    Why I am even helping you think...

    to me a ultima where there is no chance of a thief sneaking on you is no Ultima... it is inflation... monsters are "printing paper money" and dupers have created so much they became so important they can crash the whole economy...

    Just like the real world... too big to fail... :stir:
     
  38. Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    Wait a minute ...
    BAD logic detected ...

    How would multi-millio-checks have >prevented< said theft?

    >would not have< ... huh?

    :lol:

    One other BAD logic detected ...

    >the game< can't protect you from bad decisions / bad logic
    anymore than EA can or should ...

    psssssssssst!
    >GAME< ... Doh! :lol:
     
  39. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    Usually yes... but I'm a tough one and a very gentile persona when you get to know me.

    Truth is always ridiculed at first... nice try, but I wasn't born on the last rain.

    The problem with my anti-hero stance is that if you honestly meant to insult me, you would need a little more than ego proding.

    People remember me and who I was, not that many are willing to say I'm crazy anymore when they take the time to think back and truely care enough.

    I am filled with bliss at the tought of another strike at my roleplaying, it truely gives me pleasure...
     
  40. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    The problem I have with posts like the original post is that they lead to posts like this one quoted.

    Short of entirely voluntary, entirely optional gold sinks, every method I've ever heard of to reduce the amount of gold in the game does not hurt the super rich, who will always find a way, anywhere near as much as it will hurt folks like myself and countless others.

    Folks who are by no means super-rich by Britannian standards but who do not suffer from want, whose characters have enough to prosper at least to a moderate degree.

    UO's extremely elongated middle class.

    Apologies Mags; you were the first one I saw to actually raise that issue, thus you get called out.

    The truly super-rich, the ones who can afford billion gold items in the first place, will always, always find a way. Proposals other than voluntary gold sinks to take out gold will, at the end of the day, merely hurt everyone else.

    -Galen's player
     
  41. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    ...

    I can't help thinking that no item(s) should be worth 1.2 billion gold nor an individual should hold such amount in game. It's all a travesty.

    An item is worth what someone is willing to pay for it, and people should hold as much as they are able to obtain (legitimately). Anything using the terms "deserve", "should be worth", "should not hold", etc are nothing but class warfare and jealousy. In real life if you hold this mindset I HOPE HOPE HOPE you never win Powerball because by your own admission you do not deserve to have that much money.

    The problem is that larger and larger checks mean larger and larger effects due to exploits and duping. Someone duping 60k piles of gold is going to do FAR FAR less damage than someone duping 1,000,000 gold checks which would be much less damaging than 10,000,000+ checks and so on.

    The problem with inflation in UO is due to exploiting, scripting and duping first and foremost with simple game-age without any form of "reset" being secondary. The final problem has been the lack of a functional set of necessary (but not obtrusive) gold sinks. Some steps have been taken on the last one (Imbuing training, Magincia auctions, and even the current cleanup if people are so inclined), but to eliminate duping, you'd have to remove the physical nature of gold itself in the game.
     
  42. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    Hahaaaaaaa... amazing... *hugs FD*

    :lol:

    I sooo expected that one to come out...

    It's class warfare !! ITS A GAME !!!

    oh and lets think ethically... should a single human have more than a billion dollars, I see no good reason... unless someone needs to have it AS LEVERAGE for political reasons, because...

    and its the only logical conclusion : The system itself is corrupt to the point money = power... wow thats an old old concept.

    Is our "game" that serious ? isn't knowledge power ?

    Hard questions... hahahaha
     
  43. Roland Of Gilead

    Roland Of Gilead Seasoned Veteran
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    Maybe they should just delete ALL gold everywhere and let everyone start from scratch :)i think it'd be fun myself...
     
  44. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    *sighs*

    I've been too penniless for too long to consider being penniless again any kind of fun.

    -Galen's player
     
  45. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    Problem:

    Scripter/farmers.

    They would fix their empty back account quickly leaving everyone else behind.
     
  46. Ahuaeyjnkxs

    Ahuaeyjnkxs stranger diamond

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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    Ah gotta love it... a nerd tell a nerd that he's a noob, and a personal attack on top of that I'm a liar !!!

    You seem to have all that nifty logic worked out, do you ? lets see..

    I said shadow loop, not blackhole ? But you seem to know what you can do with a shadowloop... FAIL.

    You see dear Korik, I did create an anti-hack program using UOE and it ran on its own, no need for server side anything, it works by interpreting the server information and then using a very simple P2P system to cross reference data. I tried it and it works for EVERYTHING.

    There I said it, I GIVE IT AWAY !!!
     
  47. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    Unfortunate as this all is I feel it will move us 1 step closer to a "non- gold" ecconomy. Simply put many games now run with counters on the character that keep track of the funds they "find" in game. But back to the problem...

    There is no item in this game worth 1.1 billion.
    This only proves that the challenge for that ultimate thief to show his/her uggly head out of the sand and take that which is not theirs.
    UO condons theft, Take it form me its part of the game machanics and I seriously doubt any Dev staff will help. This IS what thefts were to do from day one in guild situations.
    Even Mesanna has to abide by the rules of the game. Thiefs are a part of the makeup of UO.

    We have to be very very vigulant what happens around us and who we deal with. We have ways to know who is who and the Original OP of that thread said they felt wrong about it. That was when they should have stoped before handing over the goods and carried out the full check out that it was the right party.
    We have many ways to verify a party in game and out, Aim, Icq, Vent, TeamSpeak, etc... and I feel bad for Trader, he lost a one of a kind suit. I also feel bad it had to happen to the Fair Promoter too.
    I am also ashamed of the perpatrator who did such an awfull thing to another out of spite, and for what seems like bragging rights.
    Shame on you.
    I heastate to wonder what you do in RL, for I have found many take their rl persona into the game without knowing it. You should feel shame for duping an innocent person out of anothers property.
    Unfortuantly there is little I or anyone can do to retrieve that which is gone, I am sad to say. UO gives us no way to take justice on this thief on our own. We must remember to be vigulant in the future in dealings with high end items.
    You cant always cry to the dev to help.
     
  48. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
    Stratics Veteran

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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    ...

    To be fair, I didn't see the actual victim "crying to the devs", from what I read, they owned up to the mistake and plan on making the consignor whole.

    And the statement of "There is no item in this game worth 1.1 billion. " is incorrect, there is no item that Lady Storm would pay 1.2(sic) billion to own would be more factual. There is nothing in the game i would pay that much for either, but that doesn't mean that there are NOT people would WOULD pay in the billions for something they want for some reason or another if they have the gold to do so.

    I work in collectibles (coins specifically), so I'm very familiar with the concept of paying tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, even millions for a single item. One of the most valuable US coins right now is a NICKEL (5 cents) that goes for over $4,000,000 when it hits the marketplace. UO is no different other than being virtual in nature.
     
  49. Chad Sexington

    Chad Sexington Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran Barter Town

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    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    Fun fact of the day: Out of all of the thieves who have ever told me what they did in real life, roughly half of them were either in law enforcement or are/have been in one of the branches of the armed services.

    I would say that there is a correlation between what people do in-game and what people do in real life, but it may not be what you think at first glance.

    Sometimes a game is just a game.
     
  50. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    Re: Secure Trade 1.2 billion theft proves we need a secure way to transfer costly ite

    On the other hand, I know somebody who pulled off a huge heist/disruption of a corporation in EVE that was a lot bigger than this in both scale and value and that took them a good 6 months or more of work to setup and pull off.

    That person teaches kindergarten and she's one of the last people you'd expect to do something like that - pretty quiet person. The fact that we knew her IRL and were kind of kept in the loop as she went along so that we could see the buildup and then the grand finale made it incredibly surreal.

    I went to a few of the old UO gatherings as well, and yeah, matching people with their characters can be a crazy game.
     
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