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Seriously Devs? Pet's spirit cohesion on top of...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Goldberg-Chessy, Nov 23, 2014.

  1. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Cart your dead pet to one of the very limited number of usefully placed vets - check
    Pay a small amount of gold - check
    Take a small skill loss on your pet - check
    Wait a ridiculous amount of time for what? Your pet's spirit cohesion? Wtf is that?
    Please explain to me how that has any place in the context of the game?

    I am fairly certain that I have seen threads about this many times in the past with zero explanation from the devs.
    If it simply is another in the long list of things that cannot be coded correctly maybe just let us know?
    Thanks and keep up the great work!
     
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  2. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    because the original idea for it was a second option if you couldnt find a vet. it wasnt meant to be a first option.

    not saying whether or not i agree with it, but thats why you have to wait.
     
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  3. Deraj

    Deraj Sage
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    I get why it's there, but honestly it's pretty annoying.
     
  4. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    What do you mean?
    This is what happens when you go to a vet.
    Did u you mean instead of a player with vet?
    And even so it still seems ridiculous to me.
    That would mean that players getting rezzed from anyway other then another player should have to wait for some weird cohesion?
    Makes no sense at all and the main reason it bugs me is ofc the wait but also the fact that it appears that it really has no real reason. Just another forgotten and very time consuming bug maybe?
     
  5. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    yeah a player vet. its to promote player interaction and use for the actual vet skill. thats why theres a timer anyway, i know its annoying and seems stupid now but thats the reason why.
     
  6. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    I know on Siege at least, you can't even go inside the bank to make a deposit because of the number of tamers lined up outside waiting to perform pet rez's. :rolleyes:
     
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  7. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    its probably because someone on stratics complained that if it were instant player vets were usesless. and they cried and now we now we have to wait.
     
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  8. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    The original reason for this to generate player interaction has long been invalid on many shards, it's time this was updated to reflect how the game is NOW.
     
  9. Larisa

    Larisa Reporting Manager
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    Maybe it should be random? I mean even player vets sometimes fail to rez a pet a few times...so it's not always *Instant*.

    People need to learn to have some patience I think :) Just my humble opinion.
     
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  10. James Moriarty

    James Moriarty Journeyman
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    Parience is all good and fine when you dont have a limit on the time you have in game. Unfortunatly Patience is a luxuray many of us can not afford.
     
  11. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    If you need a quick rez then the best thing is to go to a tamer instead of the vet NPC.

    If Luna is the busiest bank on your shard, I'd recall there with the pet and see if anyone helps, if not go wait by the stables or moongate and yell in global chat for a vet. I never run past a dead pet and I know many tamers are the same.

    It encourages players to either train vet skill or ask each other for a rez. In theory. What tends to happen is non-tamers suffer more than the zero skill "tamers" because the latter use the log-out trick to save a pet. Non-tamer pets tend to die much faster and the player hasn't got time to get somewhere safe and log out. I know it's not a popular delay, personally I'd rather that fighting pets could only be resurrected by use of the vet skill and "anyone-can-control" pets were the ones you could use an NPC for.

    Wenchy
     
  12. Victim of Siege

    Victim of Siege Crazed Zealot
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    this is Spot on to how it happened.
     
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  13. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    Afaik a legendary Vet never 'fails' to rez but that is really beside the point. In general I agree that we should all have a little patience but as the reason for the waiting period in this instance is no longer valid it is time it was removed, there is absolutely no justification for it.
     
  14. kaio

    kaio Sage
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    It's very annoying, that u can't get your VvV pet ressed, and that it usually takes 30-40 tries to get the pet ressed. Can we atleast get a timer on !? or even better a VvV vet that can res pets for a silver fee !?
     
  15. Mandrake of DF

    Mandrake of DF Lore Keeper
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    All aspects of UO are ment to be player interactive, also ressing pet. The introdution of the NPC Vet was to give thoose on a low populated shard or in off time hrs a chance to get a res for their pets. Tho - they have to wait 10 mins, wich I find is compleatly fair.

    On most shards you get one if you ask in general chat, and for ressing vvv pets - if its a trammel tamer, he can join vvv and resign after. Will take him 3 days to get out of it, but as long he dont play in fell - it wont matter if he is in or not. If its so hasty, offer a fee for it!
     
  16. Deraj

    Deraj Sage
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    Let's get a glimpse of some of that awesome interaction the wait time promotes:

    random guy: rez pet plz
    random guy: rez pet plz
    random guy: rez pet plz
    random guy: rez pet plz
    random guy: rez pet plz
    random guy: rez pet plz
    random guy: rez pet plz
    random guy: rez pet plz
    random guy: rez pet plz
    random guy: rez pet plz
    random guy: rez pet plz
    random guy: rez pet plz
    *five minutes later*
    random guy: rez pet plz
    random guy: thx
    tamer: np

    In all seriousness, if the devs want to promote meaningful interaction, they should do so in such a way that promotes trade, commerce, and gathering. The res delay is arbitrary.
     
  17. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    At 2am is nearly impossible to find another player to rez a pet.

    Hard coded, FORCED interaction is never a good idea.

    Get rid of the cohesion timer on pets, its day has long since passed.
     
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  18. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I see both points of view..... but having at least 6 tamers on GL's alone.. I often don't find it a problem. The only time it really effects me is when I'm on a shard where I don't have a tamer or if I'm being too lazy to dual client. If I'm off somewhere and someone's pet dies as a tamer I feel obligated to rez it for them... even if I'm not on my tamer I do offer to "call" one down to help out.

    I believe they have a pet rezing potion even. But I do agree the wait is VERY annoying and IMO too long.
     
  19. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    I see what you are saying but it just doesn't add up.
    Why have a million, no delay npc healers for players then?
    If they are supposedly trying to force player interaction then players that use npc healers instead of other players should also have a nonsensical cohesion timer.
    I certainly remember the old days when you had to hit the shrine and there weren't npc healers everywhere.
     
  20. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    It's not just about promoting interaction here. The current system doesn't behave differently towards tamers or non tamers. So as it stands, if you take out the delay then you'd never find a tamer with vet skill. Which isn't much of an issue for non-tamers who just want a rez. But it would make a joke out of those tamers who do train the skill when their peers are stronger with zero vet than with 120. There's already a fashion for zero vet tamers with NPC vets and the log out trick, and it's attractive to free up space for a whole extra skill. New tamers take a lot of convincing that zero vet is a bad thing nowadays. That's with the system we have now. Unless these NPC vets are changed significantly, you'd just screw up taming even more by messing with the timer.

    Wenchy
     
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  21. Tjalle

    Tjalle Grand Inquisitor
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    If you want an instant pet res, train up vet.

    This is just another example of UO players wanting it all. Now.
    They´re never happy. I guess the devs could just deactivate the feature and go back to how it was before.

    So what if your pet´s dead?
    If it was a pure mount, keep doing what you did on foot for the next ten minutes. Or jump on your ethy. Or go buy a horse for 700gp and go back.
    If it was a fighting pet, well, this is the tradeoff for not having veterinary and in some cases even taming/lore.

    *shakes head*
     
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  22. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    Not everyone has immediate access to a 50+ member Pet Rez rolladex. ;)
     
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  23. kaio

    kaio Sage
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    Dont forget that the NPC vet, is a neat little gold sink, and we love gold sinks, just not annoying ones.
     
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  24. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    Remove the 10 minute timer for vet- NPC's pet res, and Remove the Pet's skill-loss when players res pets with bandages.

    It's not much of a gold-sink, but why the hell is there a damn cooldown on any kind of gold-sinks...

    Which reminds me, why are you unable to add Mage-Armor back to items with 5 properties or more? At 250k a pop, it would be much more effective if we could keep paying to add/remove as we wish.
     
  25. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    Wait....it's only supposed to be 10 minutes? I've had pet it has felt like much longer before they could be NPC rezzed. Usually I get annoyed after a while and Dual Client, which circumvents the entire purpose of the timer/interaction theory anyways.
     
  26. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    thing is the game isnt what it was 10 years ago, or 5 years ago. the game in general has been tailored towards quick, small amounts of playtime. and in general is a good game to fill in windows of gameplay. a very a large portion of the playerbase likes to log in for 20 mins, do something, then log out. plus just the nature of mythic tokens / pinks / blues. you can make a character in an hour.

    I would agree with you 10 years ago, but not for what UO is being marketed as and for the playerbase we have today.
     
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  27. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    Simple solution -> Vet skill.
    It's the price of having an independent fighting partner to deal and take damage. Now if they wanted to roll Vet into healing that would be fine. Either way neither gold, nor skill loss is any real impact on the tamers gameplay. Its like choosing pots as the only way to heal. There's a timer on those. Wouldn't mind if those were 10 mins as well.
     
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  28. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    The problem is that this isn't about tamers without vererinary...at all.

    This impacts those of us who have live mounts of any kind, which the vast majority of newer players or anyone utilizing the 16th anniversary ponies do.

    If you're playing at off-peak hours, or on one of the deader shards (god forbid both), you're basically losing 10+ mins of play time. For a lot of people, they'll just log off annoyed. If that happens repeatedly, they'll log on less.
     
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  29. Mandrake of DF

    Mandrake of DF Lore Keeper
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    There is pet res potions, so if they cant afford to wait 10 mins - they have to get thoose. As far as I know, they are going for around 100k each.
     
  30. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    That argument presupposes that the Elixir of Rebirth is in stock on a vendor somewhere on the shard that a given person is playing. While Drachenfels seems bursting at the seems with elixers, not every shard is. (At the moment, GL has zero for sale)
     
  31. Mandrake of DF

    Mandrake of DF Lore Keeper
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    Then players that experience that should aquire some of them so they have in stock. Ask in gen chat for to buy that, or medusa blood so they can have it made for them.
     
  32. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Before this change went in and before we had general chat, I remember dragging a dead pet around for several weeks on Oceania because the times when I could play there were clearly not the times when there were any tamers around. Now that was a real nuisance and a half!
     
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  33. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    That's just exacerbating the problem, not actually addressing it.
     
  34. Mandrake of DF

    Mandrake of DF Lore Keeper
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    Then it would make the rez potion obsolete! And if you dont have it, or dont want to invest time and money into it - you have a cheaper option, and have to wait 10 mins. Works perfect in my eyes.
     
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  35. Dot_Warner

    Dot_Warner Babbling Loonie
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    That doesn't work for every shard.

    Even without the npc vet timer, the elixirs would still sell to those who couldn't be bothered to go to a vet. Instant gratification being what it is.
     
  36. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    Would people accept such a wait for a res from an NPC healer? No
    Would people accept such delays buying from or selling to NPCs? No

    Why is it acceptable to make this delay apply to pets? There's already a downside, if a NPC resses your pet the skill loss is greater than if an player does it.
     
  37. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    I find it difficult to understand the reasoning of those arguing for a retention of the NPC delay.

    For a start I would doubt very much if those most affected by this obsolete requirement are players with fighting pets but rather those newer players who use real rather than ethy mounts. These are the players we should be encouraging so they continue with UO not demonstrating some anachronistic delay of yesteryear. I support the removal of it for reasons, none of which actually concern me these days as I have a Legendary Tamer if I use fighting pets and I keep a stock of Elixirs should I need one for any reason.

    Firstly a player having an NPC rez his pet/mount pays a penalty of stat loss (greater than that for those that can rez their own).
    There is also a charge for the Service. The imposition of a delay as well delay is excessive and unnecessary.
    I see one offered suggestion is that the player should learn Vet, really?, seriously?, a player who is still using a mount is probably still struggling to get enough Magery to heal himself let a lone enough Veterinary to rez his mount.
    The objective of the way the game is played should be to make it enjoyable and logical, the logic that lays behind this delay has long since dissipated. The reason for it has long gone, the delay should follow suit. I feel sure that it must be newer players who encounter this unnecessary problem most frequently, if we were trying to discourage them this would be an excellent way to start.

    This thread is of course not the first to propose the removal of the delay, each time it is posted the reasoning is more valid than the last as the player base decreases. Unfortunately I suspect that like those previously this post will fall on deaf ears.
     
  38. Alex"Drake Iron Heart"CS

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    IMO I also would have to agree that the NPC Vet times are too long now and useless in some shards, The time you take to get your pet ressed means you can lose a champ or thing you were doing in that moments BUT Its also open to abuse if the timer gets taken out tho, especially for PVP based players, as for example, the GDS, Dreadmares and Bane Dragons can be insta ressed meaning fights can become very quickly unbalanced/ One sided....... and last for ages if the player is smartt enough to recall in and out near a NPC Vet, also Not many players carry their Vet skill when fighting, so this forces them to use NPCS or get someone else do it or log into another acc.

    If they want to foment player interaction between Vets and Non tamer players, make the Player Vets get some sort of Fame or Karma gain for doing a good deed, this will make player be more friendly with each other and helpful, a nice treat always makes the dog behave......
    Ive seen too many players ask in General and get ignored by the others. Some people are nice and will take time to res the pet, many others will not and carry on doing their own things unless its a friend or something.

    End point is, Yeah get rid off the timer but also be ready to have more of a challenge against pets now also, as they will be appearing more often when you have just killed them to neutralise your opponent....
     
  39. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    1) Keeping the timer around for the unfortunately flawed and outdated purpose of player/tamer interaction just makes no sense anymore. Especially as it pertains to other opportunities to supposedly increase player interaction.
    Why have npc player healers with no delay?
    More to the point; why have crafting repair deeds with no delay? Thats the big one folks so please spare me the interaction nonsense. Their used to be huge groups of crafters that loved to hang around a forge and help/interact.
    2) Anyone that simply says "get vet" is just missing the point.
    What good will vet do on a sampire who rides a mount (armored swampy) specifically designed for him and his template?
    Sampires should be "no vet" punished with a delay? Seriously?
    3) Anyone looking at this objectively cannot believe that the timer is valid just because tamers with vet deserve it. Those tamers are not waiting around to interact or help anyone all the time and still reap the benefits of their vet skill.
    Don't punish a legit group of players because you have issues with game mechanics and what other people are doing with their templates. That's just plain childish imo.
     
  40. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Good point about getting back into the fight sooner but ever since the ridiculous log out to save your pet mechanic was introduced thats kind of a non issue :(
    I know you are talking about spawns and group fights but nothing like getting attacked by a red tamer and his pet 1 vs 1 and then not being able to kill the pet after you kill the tamer just because the tamer hit a tiny little x at the top right of his screen.
    Freaking ridiculous. Pet can be used to deal out huge chunks of damage to you but you don't get the satisfaction of killing it and causing a tiny bit of skill loss.
    They need to change that so it only works in Trammel imo or only works if you are not aggro. You wanna use a GD to initiate a fight? Great, but be prepared to heal him and/or have him die.
     
  41. Alex"Drake Iron Heart"CS

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    I would agree, that log out/log in to save the pet is being abused in some cases but removing it would only really hurt more the PVE orientated people, as melee chars with Swamp dragons, would get hurt more by this option of not being able to save the pet, especially when champing or dungeon hunting.
    Its a hard one really to say what could work or not, as many people have different opinions, Insta rez, gives PVPers an extra edge on battle, Login in/out gives PVE an edge..... The last option that springs to mind but its extremely radical is take away the Bonding option of pets, so you fight with what you have got, so if your pet dies, well that edge of you has been made blunt now....
    I am sure lots of people will have different thoughts about this, and a good debate could maybe get us to somewhere in the middle for all.....
     
  42. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
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    The system currently in place makes perfect sense.

    Right on, right on.

    This is just another cry-baby thread. WAHHH... I can't instantly rez my pet! WAAAHHHH... why should I have to deal with stat loss? Everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too. Sometimes I wonder if having a forum like Stratics to vent about the game actually does more harm than good.

    Get vet or some Elixers - IT IS in fact as simple as that. Can't find elixers? Go run the peerless boss that drops the ingredient for it and have a crafter/alchemist make them once you get the drop. Not everything in this game needs to be instant and convenient.
     
    #42 Merlin, Nov 24, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2014
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  43. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    What rock have I been under ? When did we get pet rez pots ? Nevermind, I read the post saying it's just another item that requires a Peerless ingredient.
     
  44. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Simple solution, adjust your template with the vet skill. TADA!!! All better now?...la
     
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  45. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Then how the hell does it make sense that you get insta-rezzed everywhere you go?
    No player interaction needed and it seriously degrades and devalues all my warriors that have worked so hard to gain healing and anatomy so that they can rezz mates to get back into the fight asap.
    Get it yet?...
     
  46. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    What are you talking about lol?
    Put vet on my sampire for no other reason than to rezz the armored swampy that was specifically created for my type of character?
    How long have you been away from the game?
    I think it is seriously ironic that the guy that has been begging the devs for every sort of nonsensical thief workaround for a million years has no tolerance for a pet workaround that makes sense :)
    Dah
     
    The Zog historian likes this.
  47. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Alumni Stratics Legend Secret Society

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    Nonsensical? Link or it never happened.

    If you want to be able to rez your pet, either make friends with a bunch of active tamers, or snag a soul stone and train the skill up. I tried to slow it down so it wasn't real difficult to follow...la
     
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  48. Merlin

    Merlin The Enchanter
    Moderator Professional Campaign Patron UWF

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    What's so difficult about getting the rebirth elixir? If you can't find any on search engine, Spam it in Gen chat and you will get someone to help (atleast on Atlantic).

    Also, actual real players (i.e. your warriors) aren't pets. Not sure what vet rezzing a pet has to do with your warriors anat/healing; horse of a different color.
     
  49. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    You completely missed my point :)
    My point was that some nuts are trying to defend the delay by saying that it is unfair to the players that have put vet on their template. They have stated that it makes the skill useless somehow. That is nonsense and would be like saying that my warrior who has healing is being cheated by players that create templates that don't need healing because they can run to a million different npc healers and get rezzed instantly. Instead of having to call out in gen chat to find someone with healing and anatomy to rezz them.
    Whether or not a tamer chooses to reap the nice benefits of having the vet skill has absolutely nothing to do with an archaic timer period.
     
  50. Yadd of Legends

    Yadd of Legends Certifiable
    Campaign Supporter

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    This. But it does more or less force us to pay for two accounts instead of one, doesn't it?