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Shame change... not an easy task to do Dev

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Lady Storm, Dec 6, 2011.

  1. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    In the recient changes to Shame the Dev thought it a great thing to now lock the barrels, well thats ok it will give lps a new area to gain off picking one would think.

    But the traps are most times in triplacate, and having to pop the bloody things with the angles of some placements it down right mean.... you not only can get smashed up by the monsters you cant get far enough from the chest when you cast on it to blow the trap(s) off. Literaly you can get crispy, poisoned and darted for nothing! I opened 10 of which 6 were empty, now that 30 traps to pop on those 10 and i got so little for so much danger... its not worth it again.
    Dont get me wrong i like chests and poping them is fun but .... ALL in the same time if you get too close and forget to check for the 3 IF you got time from dodging the critters who think your delicious with catsup!!! Come on Dev.... your making it a bit much to get a few bits of junk for stuff that you cant even get a relic off of now...Speaking of which..

    BTW....
    I dont mind you cutting down the loot that can make relic's unraveling but geesh!!!
    Now you only get 1 or 2 out of hours of hunting......
    Cant we have a happy medium??
    It feels like you first set the dial on 8 now you go oops and turned it down to 1
    Cant we get it some where around 4.5???
     
  2. Sauteed Onion

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    The first day Shame update hit every shard, I was hitting up my bottom floor runes and killing burning mages and the crazed mages, and yeah that was cool.. somewhere in the middle of plowing through one of those guys, I thought HEY! I need to dust off my thief/lockpicker/cook and see what's going on in these boxes and barrels. I've since let that character re-accumulate dust.
     
  3. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I really hate "late" post-publish changes to whatever publish.......

    I noticed this post http://vboards.stratics.com/2058454-post1.html

    and the following sentence caught my attention....


    Now, I have no idea whether this is bad RNG for that player or actual "post-publish" change that actually effectively reduced the number of items unravellable into relics but if this was the case, I have to say that this is really upsetting.

    Not upsetting by itself, I can understand that the Developers need to maintain a certain balance but upsetting because it happens after the publish has been released to the commercial servers and some players who had more time handy to play, most notably, have had considerable time to stock up very large amounts of relic fragments.

    I entirely and wholeheartedly disagree with changes like this, after a publish. This is fine-tuning that should ALL happen while under testing and NOT after the publish.

    Why ?

    Because it clearly and widely provides a huge advantage to those players who had more time handy to extensively play the publish for the first days. When the developers make the change, they effectively cut out all those players who did not have the chance to "farm" a sufficient stock of relic fragments for their future needs.

    I may well be wrong but no, personally, I do not think that such a scenario (frequency of items be unravellable into relic fragments) could not have been foreseen while under testing so, this issue (if this is even an issue worthy of being adjusted as it could just be bad RNG...) was predictable, IMHO, and if the Developers wanted to fine-tune it, this should have happened before publishing to commercial Shards.

    Now that the cat was left out of the bag for quite some time, a drastic cut in items to be unravellable into relic fragments only hurts those players who, so far, did not have much time to play the game or did not go to Shame because too crowded and waited for a better time before hanging around there.

    At the very least, if indeed this has been changed, I also think that the amount of items unravellable into relic fragments should not be drastically reduced as the report suggests it might have been (unless just a bad RNG streak...), but only slightly, thus, not departing too much from the post-publish scenario.

    Bottom line is, by cutting too much the number of items unravellable into relic fragments this would only benefit, and a whole lot, all those players who stocked up tons of relic fragments because they had the chance to play in Shame a lot of time.

    It was not the players who designed or made this possible, I do not see why it should now be players who should pay the consequences of a drastic change like it was reported. Not their fault, they should hence not be faced with the consequences of too much a drastic reduction which would depart so much from what already has benefitted other players.

    And please, for whatever next publish, make sure that changes like this will never happen again after the publish on commercial servers and that whatever might need fine-tuning gets it while still under testing.......

    Personally, the other way around would be much more preferable.

    That is, publish with a highly reduced drop rate and then, if necessary, after publish raise the drop rate upwards as needed or wanted with additional fine tuning. At least, this way, doing it the other way around, it will not happen that early birds get so much advantage over other players, who get to play after the drastic reduction changes, when other players already have built up their large stocks and the late comers will instead have it way much harder.......

    Thank you very much.
     
  4. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    Re: I really hate "late" post-publish changes to whatever publish.......

    popps you have NOTHING to worry about.
    they didnt make items that make relics harder to get.
    they fixed a bug that made items that was supposed to be essence turn into relics.
     
  5. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Re: I really hate "late" post-publish changes to whatever publish.......


    So, I "assume" that all of the relic fragments which where "supposed" to be essence but because of this "bug" became, effectively, relic fragments, will also be turned into essence by the applied fix ?

    Or will they remain relic fragments thus effectively remaining a large advantage to those early bird players who got them as compared to those players who will get essences now ??

    Because this is the point I am trying to make, the fact that due to unforeseen issues, be them bugs or fine tuning, the game ends up with players who, after a publish, can have it considerably better than players who come after.

    And was this issue "unforeseable" under testing that it had to show up after commercial servers publish and not be dealt with under testing ?

    So, it is great that the bug was fixed, but along with it, the relic fragments that were supposed to be essences should also become essences. Anything different will only allow a part of players (those who stocked up large quantities of relic frags supposed to be essences) to retain quite a large advantage over the rest of players who will now get essences, rather than relic frags........
     
  6. LadyNico

    LadyNico Always Present
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    Re: I really hate "late" post-publish changes to whatever publish.......

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Re: I really hate "late" post-publish changes to whatever publish.......

    This. :thumbup1:
     
  8. Gospel

    Gospel Seasoned Veteran
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    Re: I really hate "late" post-publish changes to whatever publish.......

    With as much as this guy complains you'd think he'd quit. For some people I guess it's the hate that keeps them coming back.
     
  9. Re: I really hate "late" post-publish changes to whatever publish.......

    Popps they fixed a mistake. That was a lot of writing for Im not sure what.

    I liked the mistake but it wasn't a nerf. It was a fix.
     
  10. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Hasn't it always been the case that (1) "static" trapped containers (i.e., they are always in the same location) in dungeons usually have multiple traps that have to be removed and generally useless contents; and (2) "spawning" trapped containers (i.e., they disappear after a time and respawn in a different location) only have one trap and better loot? Has that been changed in Shame so that even the "spawning" containers have multiple traps?

    UO Stratics *New* | Dungeon Chests
     
  11. Lightfoot

    Lightfoot Adventurer
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    Remove trap gets rid of all traps at one go without standing in the open to cast the telekinesis. I like that there is a place other than Seige where this long ignored skill has a use.


     
  12. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    I do not believe it was a mistake either. How many stone ele's or stronger would need to be looted to get a relic? 2-3? Then "oops! something is wrong with the loot budget." The stuff was still pretty much like ... a top-end Lamborghini, loaded to the hilt, but has a solid metal windshield, powerful but worthless. If we weren't supposed to get Any relics, then a Dev should say that. Whatever happened needs to be shifted a little back towards that, imo. While it's an 'upgrade' in the sense the items can be unraveled in anything useful at all, it's not upgraded compared to other areas, SA most notably, also other areas, fact. Yeah, if you brave insta-death spammed mobs all lucked, decked, and skilled out you can get relics, most of us can't, if that was the orig plan, I'd like to hear it from a Dev, otherwise it's just someone's opinion of what the Dev's were designing. Either way, just like Popps said about relics, I had the time so I already got my stash of several hundred, so I'm good for awhile, thank you Devs.

    People have left Shame like it had the plague, including myself. Now I'm afraid, i really am, that if the rest of UO is upgraded similarly, then...

    For the Op's post, I agree, the spawn is too heavy, let's nurf that some as well, eh, Devs? Another mistake? I'd really be interested in how many "screen-fulls" of playable area there is in Shame (or even just lvl1). and what the average spawn per screen is. I'd bet 3-4+ on Every screen. The spawn as it 'was' is perhaps a tad light, but it wasn't Obsessive as is currently (already been said that spammed mobs doesn't mean fun). I know Supreem will sit and watch players at times (seen him do it on TC) to see how the action goes, maybe he could help? My lockpicker is Not a fighter, now just collecting the settling dust. Isn't lockpicking usually just placed on meager character, and not used in designing a skill template around? If a Dev would say this is what it is, enjoy, or we're not done twisting the dials yet, that would be nice.

    One last hypothetical question for those with the uber suits and skill templates and say Shame is OK:
    If in the future all of UO is like Shame is currently, If your suit, millions of gold, jewels, and weapons all went poof. If Your skills went poof too and you were forced to run an off-the-shelf toon, as presented in the Pick a character type creation screen (you could get instant gm) and you didn't know what a sampire,mystic mage, or other, was.
    Would Shame still be wonderful, or would it seem too 'challenging' to be considered 'Fun' as a game is supposed to be?
     
  13. Felonious Monk

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    ^This Exactly^
    Many of haven't picked for some time. The Shame changes have stimulated many players with different skill sets. Chest spawn have always had static chests with no loot. Those spawns don't change locations. Once a player learns these locations you just skip em altogether. Its not a mistake. The spawn has always been that way.
     
  14. Lorddog

    Lorddog Crazed Zealot
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    not sure what the complaint is. i dusted off my trapper (with no detect) and hit those chests in the tepeported platforms. there is no spawn but the diseased bloods nearby but they are off-screen.

    yes 3 traps each. i got some random loot and sometimes a few artifact level. this is exactly what should be expected. i think i am getting 1-3 relics per bag full.
    for me i just cast gift of renewal and pop the traps all at once and with a 70 fire suit it is not much a problem. even still i can just heal inbetween without gift of renewal. easy way to get some loot i think.

    lorddog
     
  15. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Re: I really hate "late" post-publish changes to whatever publish.......



    Ok fine. To see things wrong in the game being fixed is always good news.

    So, alleluja that Ultima Online got this issue fixed.

    Now, congratulations delivered and set aside, what about the relic fragments which were supposed to be essences and, because of "that, now fixed problem", came out to be relic fragments and were stocked up by the hundreds by some players ??

    Shouldn't these relic fragments be converted into essences which they were supposed to have been in the first place ?

    If they won't, then won't some players retain quite an advantage over other players and, what is worst, by taking advantage of some mulfunctioning of the game ?

    I mean, how right would it be just turning the head the other way and leave all those hundreds, thousands of relic fragments be ??
     
  16. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I am very happy for you and all other players who also put together, easily and quickly, a large stack of several hundreds (if not thousands...) of relic fragments.

    Question is, what about all those other players who, whatever the reasons, did not jump right away on the band wagon and now will have it much harder and much costlier to get their relic fragments ?

    I mean, shouldn't these things REALLY be carefully sorted out during test before the Publish ever comes to all commercial servers ?

    Besides, hasn't this particular one Publish been unusually on Origin for a time longer than usual ? How come that this "issue" was identified only quite some time after the Publish was released to all commercial servers and only after thousands upon thousands of relic fragments had already been "farmed" by a few players ?

    Having the game play out at 2 speeds, easily for some and more difficultly for others ain't good, IMHO, for Ultima Online.


    What I would like to see, is a "dynamic" engine for spawn.

    Dynamic in the sense, that the spawn engine would tailor the spawn to whomever is in the area. That is, adjust the spawn to the strength/abilities of the player or players there.

    This way, whether it is 1 player, weak or strong, or a group of X players, the spawn would always be challenging because it would self adjust to whatever situation shows up.....

    Also, spawns should not be ever re-spawning but should have a pause timer in between to give to players a feeling of accomplishment, the accomplishment of clearing out an area, at least for some time.

    Wouldn't it be wonderfull to be able to clean up a whole dungeon and see it cleaned of baddies, even though for a limited (but enjoyable) time ?

    Be able to walk all levels of a dungeon for some time, without worries, because the "battle was won" and all baddies dispelled ?

    It would be bad for farming ? Well, my perception is that lots of players are critics of farming so it would not be a problem, would it be ?
     
  17. Thrakkar

    Thrakkar Slightly Crazed
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    Re: I really hate "late" post-publish changes to whatever publish.......

    I bet the fair-play-police will arrest them and lock them up till midnight. That should be enough punishment...
     
  18. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    Re: I really hate "late" post-publish changes to whatever publish.......

    Hahahaha. . . I do disagree with starting it off better than intended (for relic return) However, my guess is that there aren't enough people to give constructive feedback for these publishes on TC1, and this is why mistakes like this happen and get fixed while on production shards so often.

    There is still tweaking that needs to be done, as some properties still aren't showing imbuing weight (especially for armor) I usually only hunt the higher end mobs on lvl 5 and it's rare to get items from them with a low amount of mods to beable to imbue/check which properties these are.

    Damage Eater is one of them people have reported for sure
    Resistances on Armor seem to also not count as item weight on items
    I'm sure there are other properties out there like this as well.

    Edit: Fame & Karma also needs to be tweaked for Everything in the Shame Revamp. (this will also fix the "honor" gains as well)
     
  19. Roland Of Gilead

    Roland Of Gilead Seasoned Veteran
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    i didnt manage to farm relics either Popps :(So i say kudos to those who got themselves some for all their time hunting.Wish i had but no biggie happens in uo all the time some get stuff that others dont...just how it is.Thats why its a good idea to spend as much time as possible doing whatever new big thing is happening when it starts as most do and if u dont and u miss out on some accidental bug or limited time loot or whatever its just how it is has and always will happen.Everyone cant play all the time.If theres soo many out there sure lots will be sale then also atm perhaps causing more competitive prices...Theres your benifit u get lowwer priced relics for a lil while cuz a bunch were released into the world for a lil while.;)
     
  20. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Re: I really hate "late" post-publish changes to whatever publish.......

    This needs to be done NOW.
     
  21. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
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    im a little lost.

    i went in last night with my treasure hunter and picked open every chest on level 5 and not one of them had any of the new loot in them.

    i hit the gazer island, i hit the tile islands, i ran around looking for spawning chests.

    none of them had any of the new loot.
     
  22. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    poo it seems the static chests have the new loot ! the spawning chests still seem to have the old loot! I have been picking the last few days and this has how it has been everytime
     
  23. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Once upon a time, I and several other people made an offer to help people start characters on Origin, so more people would get involved with testing.

    http://vboards.stratics.com/uhall/212805-read-if-youre-considering-checking-out-origin-shard.html

    Why didn't you take advantage of that offer, popps? Think of all the opportunities you would have had in the interim to actually play and try stuff out on an actual production shard (that you could transfer stuff from later) but while there was still a chance that your feedback could have had some kind of an effect on the developers? Instead of asking a bazillion questions about new stuff and expecting someone else to dig up the answers, you could have actually gone out and answered the questions for yourself and perhaps even helped out with gathering information on new or changed content to be used to update Stratics or UOGuide. You know...give back a bit to the UO community?
     
  24. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Well I think I need to clear up a small misunderstanding....

    My complain is not on the traps itself but the spawn to get in on lvl 1 of shame to get to the containers... Now come on guys this lvl is for beginners and the lping is good.

    Dont get me wrong I have been a LP for 14 years and know the ropes of Dev deviltry so 3 traps even on Siege where my LP/Thunter has a blast.

    But We are talking of lvl 1 of shame .. those containers are mobed and i have tried to clear out the way of many of the critters.
    From leading them off and such so the poping wont be so madening.
    Now if its hard for me a 14 year vet to clear out the horde in there to get to all of the containers having to pop the chest not once but 3 casts..
    How do you think a newbie can get in there to do it???? Not to mention that over 50% of the traped containers were empty unlike before the change....

    As for the relic bit.. yea I know it was a mistake in the items that give the frags but couldnt they at least up the drop of the items that DO give them a tiny bit??
    I mean I dont farm alot and spending hours in there for 2 frags is not my idea of fun...

    Yes I agree many would abuse it to farm the place to death for the $$
    But where do you find a happy medium for the players who has persay 2 hours total a night to play UO like many working adults or college student. It wasnt a great deal of fragments from the junk gotten not like the duping that has plagued many other resources. (I wouldnt put it past that some stocks of relic frags are duped also)

    I would just like to see a bit more items in the way of making a decient amount of fragments without having to literaly live in Shame to do it.
     
  25. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, I may well be wrong but personally, I see players' testing, being them paying customers, an added bonus which is great if it can be available, but it should not be necessary to find out problems with the game, at least, not for things important in the game which should be focused on, regardless of whether players participate or not in the testing. I happen to think, considering the role of relic fragments in imbuing and high end items, that these items could be considered as important for the game and thus meritable of special focus regardless of welcomed players' help.....

    Players play the game for fun, in their spare time, and actually pay for the service. Not all players have the same time to be spent in the game be it for playing or testing it. Some players have much less time available than they might like to spend in Ultima Online. The success or failure of a Publish I do not think should rely on players whose participation in testing can be unpredictable.

    That's at least my opinion on it.
     
  26. popps

    popps Always Present
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    The point I am trying to make is not that players playing the game got items.

    If other players have the same chances to get those same items by spending moreless the same effort/time in playing I am fine with it.

    But here, it looks to me that things are quite different. We have some players who got highly desirable (and needed) relic fragments by a large quantity and in a much shorter time that other players will be able to gather after the fix.

    So, to reach the same goal as in regards to Shame unravellable items and relic fragments, players after the fix will need to put in a much larger effort and time than what players could before the fix. This is what I see as a problem.

    I happen to agree with the words

    Especially, since before the fix there have been players stocking up hundreds of much needed for high end imbuing relic fragments, in very little time........


    Not really, IMHO, most players, I think, will just keep those large stocks for their personal future needs or of their friends/Guildmates so, it is my expectation that very few will end up being put up for sale or at least, not in numbers large enough to significantly lower their pricing. This whole thing will just end up, as I see it, with some players enjoying their large stocks of relic fragments and other players who will have to struggle to get a few......

    Not quite right as I see it, and it could have been much fairer if only this thing, given the relevance of the item (relic fragments), was focused on and found and fixed before the publish to all commercial servers.........
     
  27. wanderer1origin

    wanderer1origin Lore Master
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    poops
    lol this was open for near a month so fair to all that were PLAYING!!!!!!, to get unravel, unable to play isnt developers fault on a month time line!!!!!!!
    if you spent so much time posting over playing isnt our fault !!!!!!!


    if was a day or two maybe you would have reason too complain

    also, remember imbuing has been out for a long time most have built suits!! biggest thing is drops that might go into a suit piece and most were unraveling figuring this was a long term bump so your theories are lol spam mostly and whine alot lol like always
     
  28. Nyses

    Nyses Lore Keeper
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    I go down to Shame still and come out with a bag full of loot, that breaks down into 20 - 40 relic frags (per bag), plus a ton of essence.

    Yes, I am fighting high end monsters and about any template can do it. I have done it on a Sampire, a Tamer, a Mage, a Mystic, a Thrower, and a Bard. The reasoning about how some people are left out, is false. Some people may need to learn some different tactics to be successful, but that is another issue.
     
  29. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    Lemme ask this, How far can a toon get w/ gm heal/swords/tactics/anat in all 70's get? with a plain-Jane slayer or 2?
     
  30. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    I have a new sampire i am making (my first) and he wears the virtue suit and a ring and bracelet with di on them (42 total) and one has hci of 12 i think and the other has enhance potions of 20-30 (would have to look) and thats it no shield and a sword with man leech stamina leech ..I hav about 83 heal and all other skills are 90 to 100 !

    I do just fine as long as i dont get surrounded by 5 or 6 critters on level one!
    on level 2 I also do just fine the hardest are the clay ! I am not using a slayer but do use eoo !

    now the lower levels i am not ready to try yet!
     
  31. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    Popps you had the same chance as others did to get these Relics but as the norm you spent your time here on UOStratics and not in the game.
    IMHO Popps doesn't play UO (the game), he plays post to UOStratics. If I spent half the time playing UO as you spend posting on UOStratics I would be the richest player in all of UO history.
     
  32. wanderer1origin

    wanderer1origin Lore Master
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    no you dont get popps he playes the work around once others in uo figure out he diggs in, why he whines when something good gets nerfed he lost on this patch LOL!!!!!!!! he waits till there is a scripted path on how to play, he doesnt understand sandbox or what it really means!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  33. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    If he spent time on this board he would have had the basic information to max out his Relic/Points before the system got fixed.

    We can debate all day long about the rarity of Relics and what that should be, but the situation with Shame and the early ability to farm Relics in quantity was due to a calculation bug that everyone knew was going to be fixed, it was just a matter of when. If you didn't take advantage of the situation (which ANY character level that could survive ANYWHERE in Shame could), then it's your fault for not doing it, not the Devs fault for fixing the error.

    Personally, I see Shame as a mass beta-test for the rest of the revamps that will be occurring. The best thing for a player/poster to do is to provide logical feedback that does NOT consist of "Waaah, I didn't get my Relics!!!!"
     
  34. Fridgster

    Fridgster Lore Master
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    Seriously? Really? :eek:snap:

    (In response to Popps 12 paragraph complaint... 12 paragraphs)
     
  35. wanderer1origin

    wanderer1origin Lore Master
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    this but i am not popps

    his argue ment will be is unfair to other s than wernt playing my answer was should have been playing

    popps said
    If other players have the same chances to get those same items by spending moreless the same effort/time in playing I am fine with it.

    oops lol didnt he contridict his whine LOL
     
  36. Fridgster

    Fridgster Lore Master
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    ^Proper Response^ :thumbsup:
     
  37. Nyses

    Nyses Lore Keeper
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    Yup, you can solo with that if you need to. An Air elly slayer or Elemental works on the EV's down there. Go enemy of one to it, and bang away, walk away as needed to get band aid heals off. It would take a while but doable.

    Better yet see if a tamer in the guild wants to take a G. Dragon down to tank, you go to help kill faster and you each get half the loot. I can still barely go to the Unbound EV's with out seeing a guildmate or some other player down there.