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Should a Guild be Responsible for its Players?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by DENNAR, May 6, 2011.

  1. DENNAR

    DENNAR Journeyman
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    Should a guild be held accountable for the actions of its members? Either for the good or the bad.

    Should a guild kick members for doing things that are against the guild interests even if the member is a key player?


    What is your opinion?
     
  2. Cailleach

    Cailleach Certifiable
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    As a guild and alliance leader, I'd say yes - to a point. Up to that point, it's up to me, or other alliance guild leaders to rein someone in. After that point, all I or anyone else really can do is kick them, because there are no other real punitive measures we can take.
     
  3. FishinFool

    FishinFool Guest

    Always.

    You will always be judged by the least of you.

    If it hurts you in the short term, so be it. If you cannot stand up to one you will not be able to stand up to any.
     
  4. Stickypaws

    Stickypaws Journeyman

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  5. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I have to say Yes. Each person in it is representative of your guild... So how do you wish your guild to be represented?

    I know there are certain guilds on my shard who are judged solely on the members in it... and their behavior... making them one of those guilds everyone puts down and dislikes.

    It can effect many things... sometimes very negatively. Especially if the person is regarded as a cheat, thief or Scammer. If they have an attitude problem this can also effect the guild in a negative manner...

    I know it's hard but have you spoken to said individual about the behavior? Perhaps making it clear that such behavior is unacceptable will help... Worth a try.
     
  6. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Yes, in all cases.

    What more needs to be said.
     
  7. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Votes yes. I have been in a guild that PKs... Just so you know. But if someone operates outside the parameters of what the guild is, cheats in anyway, or is just a tool. I would toss them. *nods*
     
  8. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    The crew you run with says all... I say.

    If you run with scalawags and curmudgeons... then so are you.
     
  9. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I'm not really actively running guilds anymore, but when I did, we had a non-warred guild for new recruits while we got to know them. Most of the bad eggs were obvious enough they didn't make it to the proper guild. If I had the slightest doubt, they stayed in the recruit guild as long as it took.

    Most of the time my lads were really mature and would approach me to check if they'd handled something ok. But the one time I did have a member go rogue on me, he was a well known player and I booted him. He PKd another RP guild member, breaking all our rules of engagement. His victim was quite upset that I booted him, but it came down to trust. Some bad members can really screw up a guild or its reputation. Once you get known for having a guild of miscreants, it takes a fair bit of work to clean the slate. I applied my rules to everyone, if anything I expected more from veteran members.

    I actually had a GM who just couldn't bring himself to kick a couple of really dodgy established members of our guild. By the time they actually left, the bulk of the guild had grown fed up and quit. There were quite a few fights in that guild which only really developed because the GM didn't want to be firm and tell his friends off.

    The downside nowadays is that we don't have the population we once had in UO. So booting a member is going to be tricky if you need to replace them. But not impossible...

    If you're worried though, depending what the member has done, you could get them to make amends somehow. Or punish them by insisting they wear a pink robe of naughtiness for a certain period and give them a suitable guild title so others know they've been bad. Yes, I've done all of those to my guildies :D

    Wenchy
     
  10. Woodsman

    Woodsman Guest

    They are not much of a key player if they are doing things that work against the guild interests.
     
  11. Sevin0oo0

    Sevin0oo0 Guest

    No, it's not under their control

    Yes, order and control must be maintained for the health of the guild, period.
     
  12. Picus of Napa

    Picus of Napa Slightly Crazed
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    My guild on Napa whom I became GM of by default(I got nominated and no one ran against me) is full of both scum and great players. I, personally, give little more than a toss what other players think of us. Most of the members of our group have played together for years and we are all good buddies. I think it would be safe to say that the few that have left us were never part of the group in the first place and never fit. I have seen all types of scams, rip offs, looted house's and account snatching over the years but, surprisingly, never once was it from any of my team. We are often called horrible names and worse on Napa, and other shards that we play, but through it all I have seen the worst behavior in those that never venture out of the safe areas. 13 years of near solid playing, what on earth have I done with the time?
     
  13. Gilmour

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    Players in a guild should always have the interests of the guild in mind, whatever they are.

    and visa versa.

    guilds that has members that does stuff in conflict with the interest of the guild, should consider to get rid of that person. no matter how much of a key player that person is.

    at least if the guild wish to maintain whichever reputation they have.
     
  14. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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  15. Lord Nabin

    Lord Nabin High Council Sage - Greater Sosaria
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    Yes!

    A Guild is a group of people with a common Vision, Goals, and Objectives centered around the 8 virtues.

    If a player is not adhearing to the guilds Core Values then the guild is obligated to further educate the member or discharge them.

    Now Discharge obviously would come after heavy consideration of the guilds relationship to the 8 Virtues.
     
  16. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Guilds should be held accountable for the actions of their members but only to an extant. They cannot control their members so by that sense it is not the rest of the guilds fault for one of their members being of shady character. However, if those actions go unpunished, ignored, or allowed, then yes, the guild is accountable for their actions.

    For a guild to maintain their image, it falls upon the superiors in the guild to take action against shady members. It is their responsibility to punish them or boot them from the guild otherwise they too should be held accountable for tolerating such characters being in the guild.
     
  17. QueenZen

    QueenZen Always Present
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    A guild in and of itself is not in control of what the other members do or do not do. HOWEVER the guild leaders ARE able to control their membership. If a guild member does something that is surely against the grain of what a guild is supposed to stand for, then said member should be booted out, period.

    For myself oft a guild leader my main focus is TRUST. If we can not TRUST said member not to steal, loot from the guild's stuffs they get a very speedy tossed out on their arses. I for one am against robbing blind your own people, guild house and fellow members homes period. If a member is a thief and I do not mean in game thief I mean those that rip off their own, they do not deserve to remain in any guild I am leading, because TRUST if crucial, in that we can trust one another NOT to rip each other off, or out the door they go !

    Trust is also based on honesty. So if someone ends up tellin a ton of tall tales of bs to cover their arses chances are they too get booted. :)

    I expect folks to *man up* if they screwed up cuz that is the best way to handle whatever screw ups may have happened and also the best way to try to fix or deal with whatever issues there may be or may arise.

    Sort of like having children, regardless of what they did or didn't do right or wrong, without the TRUTH ya got nothin to work with to help them or your *family* or whomever got hurt...need the truth to settle the mess ! :)

    If the member does not fit in with, just being HONEST, about their own behaviors, be they bad good or whatever chances are they won't last long in any of my guilds !
    But then I am an honesty freak rl and in game soooo that is how I would run any guild I run or try to run in games too.
    As far as I am concerned even the worst scum on earth should be able to admit who or what they ARE !! Ya can deal with anything if ya got a clear straight picture of any situations. BS is not what I accept ! I got probably zero tolerance for BS off folks. I will even like/tolerate, an honest
    'Ima scumbag' type person, over the lyin one, any day ! lol

    BE honest no matter what the heck yu are or did ...or take a hike,
    as far as I am concerned as guild leader, person whatevers !!

    I would take responsibility to resolve issues, or boot em, out of the guild period cuz I also would NOT wish the entire guild to be blamed for some one's lame arse actions.. I would try to resolve said issue, or boot said miscreate out ! But then I am an honesty freak. Just ask my kids rl ...don't bs me tell me the truth, level with me, OR you are in bigger trouble yet than ya think, I would tell em ! :) One lie and ya may be out the door for good !
     
  18. Gilmour

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    I couldn't have said it better myself :)

    100% agree
     
  19. Lady Tia

    Lady Tia Certifiable
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    I absolutely agree with this statement.
     
  20. Ken of Napa

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    Nothing to disagree with here!
     
  21. Percivalgoh

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    A guild is it's players. What a guilded player does is what the guild does
     
  22. Elric_Soban

    Elric_Soban Babbling Loonie
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    of course. the actions of individual guild members reflect on the guild as a whole.

    If a guild member acts like an idiot and contradicts the guild's basic charter - i say boot em. Reputation is important, you can't have idiot guildmembers undermining your reputation.
     
  23. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    ^ x2
     
  24. georox

    georox Sage
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    If a guild has someone in their ranks that is known to be an exploiter/griefer/harasses people in chat/etc., and ignores it and keeps them in the guild, then I will judge the guild for it. If the guild finds out ad kicks them, I don't judge the guild for them. The question is what the guild allows. A guild with no rules is going to be looked down on by the majority.
     
  25. BellaofCats

    BellaofCats Guest

    Most definitely a yes! :gun:
     
  26. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    This takes me back to years ago when a very large guild on a shard that I wont name because players who were in that guild play still and its a hurtfull subject to this very day.

    The guild had hundreds of members, so big it took up a land mass if you could put all the members houses in one area! The Gm was a great leader and was game for much of UO's passtimes, they had hunts and games that invited all even not in the guild to join in. That was till one player joined them, at first *he(* not really sure of rl gender) started in with their "fel division" and did raiding and such on other guilds and wars as was the thing for that era in uo history..... How it came to my attention I must comment is also UO history, but safe to say I saw the outcome. This player took members into trouble the likes of which are a nightmare in its self to all who were effected. Players lost not only life but property to this player who used means not kosher to UO if you get my drift. (for you hard heads he hacked and stole in game and rl). At first they left no trace and GM's of the day were scratching their heads when called. All it takes is a leader to get you into trouble and this person was it. The Gm of the guild was unawaire of the guilds new wealth of items and gold in their castle. Many of the older mates were generous so he put it to that as he was busy with RL at the time and trusted his seconds to keep things going. BIG MISTAKE

    The player and his cohorts hit the wrong house....it was a GM's rl player house. to make this long story a bit shorter after a good size hunt by GM's and counselors alike they found the culprits and that it was this guild... The entire guild was perma banned, houses taken, the whole thing castle of the Gm, down to the smallest small. Even the guildmates who were not playing at the time got hit with the ban.

    Was it fair? In the eyes of EA yes They said the Gm of the guild was ultimatly totaly responsable for his members. Did I think it was fair to lump them all in for what a small group did? No. But the ruleing came in and the boom fell. Few got out from under it by way of proving they were not in game by way of billing.

    Is it fair to hold a Gm for the actions of his players under his banner? As a Gm of a large guild once I for one can tell you it is down right impossible to keep independent people from doing what they want no matter the cost. To place a non-family member leader to do this is insane. I nor you are our brothers keeper. EA and the GMs jumped head long and punished all for the few's deeds and we lost a great guild, hundreds of players and to some the Respect of athority in the game.
    Question was... Should a Gm be responsable for his/her players under her guild banner?
    Answer: No*
    Answer : Yes Both are correct to a point. If bad actions start a Gm has one thing to use as his last resort to keep mild antics at bay. The boot button.
    *: We all have free will and that will dictates what we do, no one can tell you what to do thats up to you. To place it apon GAME LEADER is asking them to play parent.
     
  27. Willard

    Willard Seasoned Veteran
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    Yes, but seeing as a Guild really can not control everything a player does it would difficult to hold the Guild or its Leadership responsible. However, if the guild/Leadership is aware of a player's conduct that is against their set rules or accepted standards of conduct, than the Guild Leaders are responsible for expeling that player from the guild or some other diciplinary action to protect the reputation of the Guild.
     
  28. DENNAR

    DENNAR Journeyman
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    I agree with what most have posted that a guild is a representation of its members. That is why I have left a couple of guilds in the past. Members did things and the guild took no action. Actions of members that I did not agree with and did not want to have associated with my name in UO.

    Unfortunately I have seen several guilds that enjoy being scammers, hackers, griefers etc. They want thier guild to have that kind of reputation.

    But that is what you get from an online game to expect different is to be unrealistic.

    Thanks to all that responded, it is good to know I am not alone.
     
  29. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    It is basic management 101. Running a guild is no different than running at team at a company (which I do with 15 direct reports).

    I set expectations for my employees, provide them direction and manage any issues that arise.

    If someone is not on board with what my team is trying to accomplish - they should no longer be on the team.

    If they cannot abide by the rules of conduct and behavior - I discuss and attempt to address, if they cannot fix the issue - they are no longer on the team.

    Any team that allows members to work at cross purposes and does not uphold the rules and values of the team - is a cancer to the team. Remove the cancer or the rest of the team will not believe in the rules either.

    Let me guess - you have that 1 really good PVP guy you need that is a general jerk to everyone in game. You are trying to decide if you should kick him for his behavior or keep him because of his skills.

    Same thing at work - had a team member with extremely valuable technology skills that I kicked off my team because he couldnt' behave appropriately at customer sites. I'd rather tell a customer I don't have the skills than take calls complaining of my employees poor behavior. If I leave him on the team - it tells the rest of my team 'Its ok to ignore the rules if you have really good skills'. Rules are rules. Follow or leave the team.
     
  30. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    This brings up scary shades of guilt by association, however, not much else you can do to cut through internet anonymity.

    As Malag pointed out, GL has several large guilds who's reps have been permanently ruined by a few players who have the mentality of unmedicated ADHD kids on a sugar high. When your members go OUT OF THEIR WAY to maliciously disrupt the play of others, you have a problem.

    Over a decade ago, an entire (large) PK guild was banned (I forget which guild on which shard, but it was covered by several media outlets) because several members would emote sex acts over the corpses of their victims. This led to the "R-word" being a bannable offense, regardless of its context.

    The rotten eggs will always outweigh the rising stars, guilds will be judged by their 'worst' members.