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Should crafted armor and weapons be better than artifacts?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Zosimus, May 6, 2014.

  1. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    I decided to revisit this topic since crafting at one time in UO played a major part of the game. Not just for items per say when I make that statement but the interaction the community had with crafters. Personally I believe crafted items should be better than artifacts. I will try to make it very simple and to the point in my idea.

    I am going to just name them Super armor and Super weapons for example sake.


    Super Slither

    Combine
    * 10 Slithers
    * 1000 Valorite Ingots
    * 2000 Blood moss
    * 500 Strength Potions

    Hit Point Increase 25
    Hit Point Regeneration 4
    Defense Chance Increase 30%

    Skill required to make: Tinkering


    Super Crimson Cincture

    Combine
    * 10 Crimson Cinctures
    * 2000 Barbed leather
    * 1500 Black pearls
    * 500 Threads

    Dexterity Bonus 10
    Hit Point Increase 15
    Hit Point Regeneration 5

    Skill required to make: Tailoring


    Super Nystul's Wizard Hat

    * 5 Nystul's Wizard Hat
    * 4000 Spined Leather
    * 1200 Garlic
    * 1000 Wool

    Lower Mana Cost 30%
    Physical Resist 15%
    Fire Resist 20%
    Cold Resist 15%
    Poison Resist 20%
    Energy Resist 45%

    Skill required to make: Tailoring


    Now the above were just thrown together quick ideas of what a Super Artifact that can be crafted. Each item can be used in the game already that are artifacts. Library turn ins should be included because I feel what a way to get players involved back into their crafters.

    This gives players who may not revisit parts of the game to go back and play them again. Like Doom artifacts which most are outdated now days. Doom artifacts that can be improved on by crafters while players may organize large runs in Doom again. The same goes for Peerless and such.

    All skills can be required for any item. So maybe Jewelry is just Tinkering but maybe add imbuing skill for certain items to be created. Smithy can be added to metal armor and weapons. Tailoring can be cloth and leather items.

    If you noticed I used items like reagents, potions, ingots, wool, and thread. Any ingredient can be used including peerless and imbuing.

    Like I said it's just an idea and maybe not a good one however I would think you may see more interaction on some shards by payers organizing events to obtain items needed. even players who hardly use their resource gathers or crafters may spark some interests back into using them.
     
  2. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I have to disagree about combining items in super armor or weapons or talismans because it would inevitably favour the wealthy in UO who can afford them and make it impossible for returning or new players to "catch up".

    Just imagine, a player just starting to play UO now whether a returning player or worse, a brand new player, to be able to gather 10 slithers not being able to afford buying them.....

    Sorry, but while as the game is now it is possible for a returning or new player to "catch up" in a reasonable time, through imbuing, with a change like you suggest the divide between extising, wealthy players and the rest would become almost impossible to cover and PvP, most importantly, would suffer greatly from it.

    As in regards to crafting being allowed to make better than artifacts items, I think it already works this way....
    Thanking to reforging, imbuing and refining we already have access to create items which are quite better then many artifacts out there. Sure, not better than all artifacts but that makes sense because if crafting would allow always to make better then artifacts items then noone would hunt at spawns any longer....

    So, my take is that so far the Developers have been doing a pretty good job with game design and planning....
     
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  3. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Any Dungeon Master of their worth will tell you. Shouldn't let your players level up and empower their characters to uberness to fast. They will burn through lower level content or skip by grades of play to fast. When your breaking out the Deities and Demigods book to give your players a challenge. It is to late. Just left with wiping the slate and starting over.

    Being able to craft weapons has supported scripting and lined lowlifes pockets. The need to burn through 100s of charges on runics to reforge that perfect piece to imbue to perfection. Then worse by selling FTW tool for cash for the enhancement.

    All mods that are in a gear should be given a point value. 1 or 2 things then should happen.

    First the higher the point value of an item that is not a back pack drop artifact. The faster the item wears out can break and most likely cursed.

    Or there should be a cap on how much point value of gear that can be worn. Low grade gear would have a use as fill.

    The game is broke and with out some hard sacrifices there is only wiping the slate clean and starting everyone fresh. Want a bunch of returning or new players? This advertised and done with an upgrade to support the UOReboot would see that population boost their wallets desire. Just police the BS and stick with it with an iron fist. I'm sure the boost in funds would support a tream of UO dedicated rule crazed zealot GMs. Just throw a bone to those that have toughed it out all theese years with a unique eth and deco based on account age pick and use vet rewards. Theese unique vet picks would be only had for a year after UOReboot.

    Anyone that would argue with theese points live to be spoiled. Or have never stripped down to GM made armor and weapon and seen how easy monsters are now a good fight. Then after an epic battle opened the corpse and think "what a bunch of crap" Only because you know you can return to the pimp gear.
     
  4. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    I think it should be entirely optional for a player whether they build a suit by themselves through crafting or by hunting, because then you give players the choice in how to get equipped and you're not stuffed if you either lack the crafting skills or a strong enough character to get artifacts. My favourite option was to do a bit of both, then characters could look the way I wanted to but I could divide my time up between craft and hunt. It made my crafters useful and I didn't have to hinge everything around stuff that was exceptionally hard to acquire. I think it's fine having desirable items which are harder to create or hunt for, but there should always be a straightforward way for a player to get equipped if they have a more casual play style. Many UO players have family and work commitments so it's not feasible for us to all spend inordinate periods of time just equipping a character. We need to be equipping a straightforward competitive baseline suit quickly and then we can seek out some pretty items or craft something that looks better etc when we want to.

    The essential accompaniment to this is that all equipment needs to be simplified and much easier to understand IMHO. Nobody should need a spreadsheet and encyclopaedia to get dressed, craft an item or loot a corpse. I know I've said this before, but this is a huge deterrent to newbies and returning players. Equipping a character feels more like a day at the office than playing a game, It's easier doing tax returns than building a suit in UO! My chars have old suits, because the time it would take me to update them is more than I have to play the game itself lol. So I'm all for looking at the balance between looted and crafted gear, but I think equipment complexity needs to be addressed.

    I do feel that characters should level up in gear and skills over time. Unfortunately in UO there seems to be the perception that we must be uber in 24 hrs of macroing and shopping. Even as a newbie, I remember being treated like a freak because I trained magery through fighting not 8x8 :p Tamers rarely seem to bother training pets in dungeons, preferring to park and AFK instead. So I suspect there would be a lot of resistance if players were required to level/gear up more slowly over time. The current UO community seems to mostly favour fast levelling and lots of power. The newer and revamped areas in game are designed around templates and suits that these power-oriented players are using. Which only encourages players to play these power templates and suits because otherwise they are ripped to shreds in newer areas.

    Wenchy
     
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  5. Great DC

    Great DC Journeyman
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    IMO armor and weapons should be better from loot of monsters then from crafting. That's what made people go to the dungeons. I think imbuing ruined uo. Then they made shame and wrong so looted things were stronger again but picked the worst place to do it, they should have started with champion spawns for higher loot like that. then reforging came out and completely ruined the reason to go into a dungeon for any reason whatsoever. its been one mistake after another and now the game is dead on most servers because of it. I say we delete all reforging from uo and just slightly upgrade loot from monster drops and make people earn their suits. That's the interaction people need in this game, not can you make this for me so I never have to leave luna.
     
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  6. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    This is pretty much how it is now. you can gear up a character in dungeons, thru crafting, or a combo if you want the best.

    Theres one thing your forgetting, that in UO once your done, your done. for a good 4 years. in many other games armor / weapons go obsolete in about 3 or 4 months.

    I would have no problem with combining artifacts to make them more powerful. I would have to put the ratio tho at about 10 items for a 15 to 20 percent boost of stats. Combine 10 slithers, get a slither with 15hpi, 2hpr, 10dci.
     
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  7. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I do not agree. The problem of UO, especially in PvP, has been in the past too few players holding the Monopoly of the best armor and weapons because they were wealthier. This, is my opinion, mostly thanking to the control of Champion spawns which provided an enormous amount of gold which was for a large part invested into being able to buy the best armor and weapons which allowed a few players to always have the upper hand in PvP. And of course, when too often the same players win fights and too often the same players loose fights, how else can this not end up with those players too often winning loosing interest because of lack of challenge, and those too often loosing fights because of having enough to loose ?

    Imbuing, thanking to the wisdom of the developers, finally reversed all this and made it possible to ALL players to close the great gear and weapons' divide and "catch up" with the armor and weapons of those wealthy players, The player base, thanking to imbuing, has finally been levelled way more than what it was.
    Sure, there are still some differences but it is way much better than what it was. Especially, thanking to the "Shame" loot which has further made it possible for the casual player to be a match even with the most hardcore players.


    Again I disagree.
    Shame loot I think was introduced to further "level" the player base by making good armor more reasily available to any and all player so that everyone could be geared up to PvP, not just a few players.
    And doing it the Legacy Dungeons was the simpliest natural thing to do, IMHO. Since the new loot was intended to ALL the players, not just those few who have control of the Champion Spawns, clearly it had to drop in dungeons where all players could freely go.

    In order for PvP to thrive, players FIRST need to gear up to top notch gear (and this can only happen in trammel ruleset areas) and ONLY THEN, when they are ready and all geared up to compete, they can adventure into the Felucca ruleset areas.

    The Champion spawn as location for powerscrolls drops were a HUGE mistake, IMHO, and they have, to my opinion, been the #1 cause for the destruction of PvP in Ultima Online. Players need to first feel ready before they feel like adventuring into PvP areas. Not being able to up one's own skills, was quite a deterrant to going into felucca to PvP....

    I also disagree with this. I see people a lot in dungeons and spawn areas. There is still artifacts or "shame" loot or reagents or many other things worth getting.
    Reforging, as I see it, only allowed to further level gear and weapons among players and this all helps making PvP more possible among a wider number of players.
     
    #7 popps, May 6, 2014
    Last edited: May 6, 2014
  8. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    Thank you and exactly my point.


    Once a person has completed a suit for their character, besides have to powder of fort it from time to time, they are pretty much done. Yes I am all about simplifying things. When it comes to crafting a "super" item there should be some level of ingredients to make it "super."


    Sorry Popps but the current artifacts will still continue to help new and existing players. These super artifacts items I am using as examples can be done in time for all players. Its not about how much gold you have. You can go PLAY the game and obtain 10 artifacts over time and have the ingredients for them saved up over time. So new players have the same chance as existing players. You do not have to buy these items but go get themselves. If you want to buy then go buy. Dont turn this topic in the rich and poor debate. I am touching upon a endgame more like armor, weapons and items. Lets face it, end game is Bosses and PvP for most depending on their playstyle. Many can say they did Medusa 100 times or more, or ran Doom 10000 times. How many of these artifacts are even used in today's UO?


    Imbuing is very important in the game and I definitely not trying to eliminate it or any crafting skill. Just adding something more to them is the goal.

    Duping may be an issue however that falls in the Devs lap. If people keep using duping, scripting, farming as excuses to not to do things or add new things in the game, then why keep playing it?

    When the game starts getting constant patches of new items being added to the game in a timely manner you are kind of stuck with the same suit for years. Players get bored and don't play as much if things don't break, wear down or added new and improved items.
     
  9. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    very understandable opinion popps. would just like to point out that the wealthiest pvpers made huge amounts of gold in the past few years from hunting / shame loot. champ spawns are of course an income source for the average pvper, however those fortunes that fund uber suits and burning barbed kits came mostly from figuring out shame, what to look for, and what kind of value item property groupings could achieve in the market at the time.

    This was a couple years ago now. The market is flooded now and has come down substantially. but in that first year or so fortunes were made.

    I myself didnt get into this full force, probably under 150 hours total farming, but did manage to pull 1 excellent item and a few ok items. made about 900mil from it. in the end i decided i had better things to with my time lol. can only drink so much coffee. Others made up to 50billion in the months shame loot was still fresh.
     
    #9 Smoot, May 6, 2014
    Last edited: May 6, 2014
  10. popps

    popps Always Present
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    It is a matter of time.

    I assume that players play in their off time, meaning, that the time to play is severely limited by one's own real life, work, study, family, errands.....

    Wealth (and scripting...) allows to "save up time" by either scripting or purchasing items without the need to spend enomous amounts of time to get those items.
    Any idea of change in UO that forced new or returning players to have to find too many time consuming items in order to be competitive with other players would simply, I think, be seen as deterring to play.

    We all know how hard it is to get a drop for a slither, they sell like 80 millions for reasons. Sure, a new or returning player could in theory gather as drops 1o slithers, but in theory...., in practise the time needed would be too much deterring and so this "super" artifacts would simply again bring back a divide between players who can buy them and get great gear, and players who lack the time and remain with inferior gear.

    Sorry, but I do not see this as good for UO and PvP in UO.
     
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  11. Deraj

    Deraj Sage
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    I agree with this sentiment. I do not agree with your idea. Here's why: the examples you have provided are items which require a profound amount of wealth and grinding to obtain. Simply adding beefier gear to the list of craftables will not resolve the core issues that affect crafting. If you want crafting to have a greater economic and community-oriented impact, similar perhaps to the days when people actually gathered at Britain Blacksmith, then there has to be a regular need for the things which crafters produce. This used to be the case when gear was not immortal and blessed (via PoF* and insurance). GM gear was the standard, and there was a constant need for it (and repairs for it), thus a constant need for people producing it. When conditions are created that limit the need to "visit the crafters", the crafters run out of things to do and disperse.

    Imbuing does help a great deal. It is a great skill in a number of ways, but as far as this subject is concerned, it does little to mitigate these negative conditions. I have seen some vendors that sell imbued suits over the course of time, but to provide a live service is most cumbersome, and without a regular demand for it (thanks once again to PoF and insurance) you're not going to see that social gathering like in the good ol' days. I remember a long time back, a friend of mine wanted to start a regular gathering at the Britain Blacksmith again. It worked out the first few times, but people soon lost interest, because the reality was there was no need for a blacksmith's goods or services, and neither nostalgia nor social incentive was enough to overcome it's lack of utility.

    You want to get real crazy? Here's what you do:
    *Limit or remove insurance
    *Limit or remove powder of fortify
    *Remove repair deeds and add a feature that allows repairs via the trade window

    By doing this, you'll achieve the following: make crafted gear the standard, make PvM more challenging, give crafting a powerful economic purpose, and piss off 90% of Stratics' UO players. Win-win, if you ask me. Again, adding more craftables will not revive crafting. Crafters produce. If their goods do not sell, then there is no economy for their goods and they will stop producing. In order for those goods to sell, someone has to buy them, which means someone has to have a regular need for them. This means the gear needs to die or be lost. If items have no life-cycle, players will have no need to replenish them (or a limited need).

    *I realize that imbued items will one day die and need to be replaced, but when you've maxed out its durability prior to imbuing and possess a bag full of repair deeds, the time it takes for that item to die is simply too long to have any economic use.
     
  12. Blue Fly

    Blue Fly Lore Master
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    I just wish Val hammers were more useful. All about the bkits these days...
     
  13. Lady CaT

    Lady CaT Seasoned Veteran
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    Should armor and weapons be better than artifacts?

    Artifacts use to represent something that was one of a kind, an item with some status. It required a challenge into the deepest darkest dungeons to retrieve. And then it was only found after a long battle and some luck.

    If the armor and weapon I can craft are better than what I can find, what am I adventuring for again?
     
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  14. Great DC

    Great DC Journeyman
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    Well said Lady Cat. That was my point. All you need now is bkits and forged metal tool. There isn't even a need to farm imbuing ingredients anymore. Only thing in shame worth farming is ssi jewels and getting a lucky clean legendary arty which takes entirely too long. And another reason why most people made their own crafters was because of too many scammers in the game nowadays. It isn't like the old days where people stood in line at the smiths shop. I remember when you could go and farm sanctuary with bunch of strangers that were just looking to improve their gear. It's too easy now. And gear does not make the pvper, its all talent/strategy. I pvp on some shards with suits from 2005 and still kill most people easily. Some of my mages aren't even fully scrolled out. :) When is the last time someone came to you and said lets run doom?--2003 maybe. Anyways, more lootable stuff less crafting. It will make the game interact better and give pvpers more people to fight. Win-Win
     
  15. Spiritless

    Spiritless Seasoned Veteran
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    ^ This. So much this.

    Honestly, loot is a total joke in this game at the moment. There's hardly any reason to hunt anything for armor/weapons. I filled 8x chests with T-Hunter loot earlier. That's 1,000 pieces of armor and weapons. I disenchanted pretty much every single one of them as that's all they were useful for. I have plenty more and tens of MiBs too. Why bother doing them though aside from the small chance at perhaps a Forged Pardon I can sell and a handful of imbuing mats? There's not even a marginal chance of acquiring something usable in today's UO.

    I remember when hunting Blood Eles or Dragons could turn up some marginally useful pieces which couldn't just be crafted at will. Even then it was almost impossible to find good pieces even with high luck suits. Now it just isn't worth the effort at all.

    On the face of it, imbuing wasn't a bad idea given how much of a pain it was to construct suits. It was just implemented wrong, imo. The base pieces or properties you can add to or extract from items should have always had their foundation in monster loot. If you had a looted dagger with 30% stamina leech and a looted katana of blood elemental slaying and 30% SSI, you should have been able to 'extract' the leech from the dagger and 'imbue' it into the katana with appropriate risks of failing to extract, etc. which may have caused the dagger to be destroyed entirely or the leech being reduced marginally. That way, you're simply modifying looted pieces to improve them with properties from other loot you've acquired. This would bring relevance to almost all loot. Instead, imbuing relies on random materials dropped from champ spawns/t-chests for no explicable reason and you're free to set the intensities yourself. Meh.

    Some purpose needs to be put in to actually go out and hunt/do MiBs and T-chests anyway because amassing loot just to unravel isn't fun, imo.
     
  16. popps

    popps Always Present
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    That is something I do not understand, really.....

    Valorite Runic Hammers, just like the Barbed Sewing Runic kits, is the top runic tool for the blacksmithying just like the barbed sewing runic kits are for tailoring.

    Now, why is that the barbed runics are more usefull then the valorite runics ?

    Actually, the valorite runics besides being able to be used for armor just as like as barbed kits can be used for armor, can also be used for weapons. Barbed kits stop at armor.......
    So, that's a plus for valorite runics, ain't it ?

    And, if the barbed runic are more usefull then the valorite runics why is that the valorite runics are worth more millions then the barbed runics ? Nothing makes sense to me.......
     
  17. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Shall we reverse this and say, if only dungeon crawling could get the best armor and weapons there are, why would then anyone want to be a crafter ?

    By relegating the best armor and weapons only to spawns, this would in effect kill crafting in Ultima Online, an area that always made UO stand up in comparison to all other games out there....

    So, the right way to go, IMHO, is in between (as it is now...), and thus have crafters be able to make better or at least same quality armor or weapons for some slots, and have artifacts retrievable in spawns "fill in" for the rest of slots.

    Ain't it what we have now with mace and Shield, Ranger's Cloak, Crimson Cincture, Tangle, Slither, Animated Legs of the Tinker and so forth still be in need for a suit ?

    As in all things, I think, compromise is the best solution, help crafting some and help dungeon crawling some.....
     
  18. popps

    popps Always Present
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    It is already happening, I noticed that, when repairing items, most of the times I get loss of durability over repairing...

    Besides, one has to consider that a 255/255 starts getting useless not just at 0, but like around 50ish or so because it is easy to wear out 50 or more points of durability with a few hours at a spawn. That's in PvM, obviously as the wear and tear for PvP is less.

    Perhaps that is something that could be looked at, increasing wear and tear in PvP fights so as to prompt players to have to replace their PvP gear more often ?
     
  19. popps

    popps Always Present
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    But top notch gear and weaponry surely helps a great deal in an item based game where items properties determine the outcome of fights.....

    At least, even for a starter PvPer, a gret gear and weapon allows that "extra time" to stay alive in a fight to have more time to learn better strategies and fighting tactics for future encounters.....
     
  20. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I think the key to straighten up the conflict between crafting and dungeon hunting is probably in items properties.

    We have LOTS of items' properties, some more important, some less and the wonderfull thing about them, is that as time goes by more, newer items' properties can be added to the game.

    Now, how about some items properties are not reforgeable nor imbuable either althougether or at least they can be on some items slots but not on others but can only be found as loot through dungeon hunting ?

    This would allow room to crafting to live and likewise to dungeon hunting. Players would be able to craft top end items having some of the properties from the pool which are reforgeable or imbuable but would still need to hunt to get items with other needed or wanted properties.

    But wait !

    Ain't it perhaps what we have right now were there are properties which we cannot reforge, at least on some slot items or even imbue ? Like Swing Speed Increase or other properties on jewellery and other items' slots or properties like Splintering, Battle Lust, Blood Drinker and so forth.

    Sure, it can be perfectionated, perhaps selecting more properties that are limited as to whether they can reforged/imbued or in regards to which items' slots they can be added to or, just adding newer properties which can only be hunted for, not crafted. But I think that the path we are on is the right one, with a combination or, if one will, a "compromise" between what can or cannot be crafted and what can or cannot be hunted for. I do believe the right way is in between, a combination of crafting and hunting and I can see we have this right now, already.

    Personally, I'd prefer the fine tuning to happen through new properties added more selectively rather then messing up with the current ones because, if some properties are "taken out" from the pool of those which can be reforged or imbued or from some items' slots, then this would add inbalance between those players who still have items with them and players who don't (pretty much like with those players who were able to imbue artifacts before this was stopped...). Otherwise, it would be necessary to do something about existing items on which properties where reforged or imbued before it became no longer possible because of changes in design and balance.

    It can always be fine tuned for better results, of course.
     
    #20 popps, May 7, 2014
    Last edited: May 7, 2014
  21. THP

    THP Stratics Legend
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    The top and bottom of the matter is EA have got it a right piss with the armour and weapons....far far to complex...and there is no easy soloution ...as its get worse each time they try to fix it.
     
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  22. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    It is terribly amusing to see everyone use this somewhat innocuous thread as an excuse to talk about their pet issues.

    As to the issue raised in the title of the thread: It is appropriate that some crafted items be better than artifacts available and some not. And/or that some artifacts have things that aren't available from crafting at all and some merely are great examples of stuff you can get from crafting. And, as it turns out, that's what we have now, with a varying list of item properties available from different crafting techniques and lists from loot in some ways similar to the crafting list and in some ways different from it.

    (Traditional crafting, by the way, is about to see an unintended boost: As the Shame-style loot system goes global, traditional crafting seems likely to me to be the best way to get plain, unadorned stuff without the chance of it being cursed or brittle or the like.)

    As to the idea presented in the original post: Pointless at best given the comparative rarity of, say, Slithers (even one of them, let alone the several required to craft the super one), and given the item property caps, and given the current variety of methods available to us to reach the caps.

    As to the other ideas proposed in the thread: It strikes me as being not good for the game to just make everyone start fresh. I know I, for one, would be resentful. I can envision no good effects from this as, among those who did not leave in frustration, the hierarchy quickly would reestablish itself (for various legitimate and illegitimate reasons) and we'd be, at minimum, in the same spot we're in now but with way less people.

    I'm always really amazed when people propose such things. It shows such deplorable ignorance of several facts about the way things work in-game. We have such a variety of different mechanisms, techniques, and properties that players who can cap out quickly rarely seem to reach a final cap and think "ok, now I'm standing pat for forever." Instead they decide "maybe reaching that other cap will work better." In that sense there never really is a peak, merely a never-ending series of roughly-equal plateaus one can reach. Those, like me, who mostly want to experience the content will find a plateau that works and just sit there. Those who like always to strive for more will continue striving, in the form of reaching for the next plateau.

    *shrugs* I need to get going so this post less will conclude than simply stop.

    -Galen's player
     
  23. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    How many that are of an advanced age have wished to be 20 again. But know everything they know now. Thats the way I see starting over. Starting UO with all the experience advatages would still require arm twisting even for me. Sure anything that was bought from the store would have to carry over along with vet rewards and soulstones and the broken ones. Characters would remain with skills,stats and recipe/quest knowledge. Think of it as running out a house with a box of nick nacks just before it explodes. Tacking out the whole neighborhood an then a tornado carries all away while you huddle in a colvert drain. Housing plots could be on hold for an account till funds are made to release it back. A lot of unforeseen mistakes and pure lack of attention to players use of the game has left no potential for growth. There might be a hail marry out there that will make everyone happy. I just don't see it. New and returning players would still be underdogs to veteran players.

    The whole gear subject is akin to a snowball rolling down hill. It has grown to a huge beast. A razor wire like cap stretched in the path would keep things in control. Capping out how much gear can be loaded on would reduce the need for creating next gen god critters to curb soloing monsters that have sweet rewards. The capping of points worn could be just the six armor slots. Even a cap over everything worn would solve the belly aches about needing a spreadsheet for armor balancing. Would also have the last issue with the monsters being tougher having greater dagons blindly attacking their owner chance after every "all kill".

    Just rip the bandaid off and let the healing start.
     
  24. cazador

    cazador Crazed Zealot
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    I agree with combining artifacts to get something useful..but damn those are OP lmao..maybe toned down..like alot


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  25. Roland Of Gilead

    Roland Of Gilead Seasoned Veteran
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    I would love to see some artifacts and drops be able to be made actually useable and through crafting somehow. Would give the hunters more to hunt for an be happy getting and the crafters more to do in improving these weak drops.
    I'm talking about the majority of drops we can get that people either trash for points or unravel because they simply aren't useable or sellable. In my opinion highly wanted and useable drops such as slither are fine as is and need no improving.
    It's Very easy and obvious to see which artys/drops/loots are being used and sought after and sell just fine because people actually want them. I say leave those alone and find a away to make the junk artys we just trash actually usable to someone, I mean why not? They Exist why not make em worth existing...
    I know if as an example Doom had more than a few artys that were actually useable an sellable and worth getting people would go.
    Same with the vast majority of drops you find on SA bosses an such that simply are just trashed for points or unraveled. It's cool you got something sure...but its virtually worthless to anyone...
    I think something like the Topic of the post could be great if done right and on the right stuff to make worthless unusable artys actually useable, but if something is already quite obviously in high demand*slither* then it's fine as is an no real need to upgrade it. IMHO ;)
     
  26. Gedgerez Tesherd

    Gedgerez Tesherd Journeyman

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    The only artifacts that are non damaging to any type of market & or utility are the Doom, Ilshenar Paragon, Mondain's Legacy Dungeon, & Tmap Artifacts. Tokuno Artifacts wouldn't be an option since they are not currently spawning, unless they turned on the switch to make it happen, then it would also gain consideration with their Artifacts. The above listed are the only ones of such limited functionality which should gain such the ability combine & upgrade, as were done with upgrading the already implemented Blade of Insanity (Brightblade), Bracelet of Health (Bracelet of Protection), & Hailstorm (Taskmaster). Any of the Artifacts minus the Hat of the Magi, Armor of Fortune, & Ornament of the Magician are trivial to even try to find buyers for much less use in modern day suit structuring. BAM, POW, I just realized this thread reply just gave Doom, Ilshenar, & hunting Tmaps EVEN more purpose toward farming their allocated Artifacts on a daily basis again (how silly of me to want such a thing as Doom, & Ilshenar being used by the community regularly on the same day upward in the 10s to 20s of players). There have been many thread discussions for revamping dungeons, & loot, but the bottom line is if devs like what they see, then It would be best to leave the mod structuring bonus from combining these artifacts for them to decide.
     
    #26 Gedgerez Tesherd, May 7, 2014
    Last edited: May 7, 2014
  27. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Everyone who played back in 97 would remember the old armor and weapon system... you knew what was good just by the name.
    The hardest to get was a vanq in weapon and Invun in the armor.... To have a full suit of it was tantamount to the best of today.
    It was no picnic to get a full suit...
    So Yes I agree in theory to the idea.
    But...
    I dont think you will get many to want the same.
    Our everyday joe on the streets of Britain will not like that some crafter can out do his highly priced set up of arties being blown out by a crafter's tinkering a suit for pennys and be better.
    There is no getting the genie back inthe bottle....
    Arties should have remained elucive.. I mean so rare they would be like the WoW godly stuff... meaning there would be 1 or 3 max of any piece in game total...
    Yes the masses would have yipped their heads off when someone got it but we would be in a vastly better position then we are now.
    Arties got out of hand...
    Every Tom ,**** , and Harry can have a tangle, or slither... its arti galore in the markets....
    Oh it would be a fast way to peve off the masses...
    But you are right GM made use to mean something..... now its a joke.
    Stopping the Arties or lowering the spawn down would only make the price go astronomically up for whats out there.
    Making the GM made stuff better would hit the dungeon crawlers and in the long run hurt the game...
    Vicious circle but its how the loose fingers of a old dev wanting to boost the game went haywire in the end...
    There is no fix that wouldnt harm the population of the game in some way.
    Take the arties down a notch and players will revolt.
    Make GM more powerfull.. is instant quit for many who would just toss in the towel after working millions or even a billion gold into a artie/reforged suit.
     
  28. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    The overall arty situation is pretty darn good right now id say. lots of choices, you can get choose to use something that is very inexpensive that is almost as good as the 50ish mil items. dont have gold for a crimson? get a tangle and supplement hpi with one armor piece and a most knowledge robe. dont have gold for a conjurers trinket? use an orb.
    need 2/3 casting on one jewel but cant afford an orny? imbue up a venom.

    So many choices.

    So, we dont really "need" this option, still i would be all for combining 10 slithers for one with 15hpi. or 10 prismatic lenses for one with 30 damage inc instead of 25. It would increase demand for these items as the original poster said.

    Even slithers not worth farming anymore, at 80mil now the draw just isnt there.
    This idea would at least make these artifacts valuable again.
    With so many other options the noticeable advantage would not be game changing.

    Easier method: make more than one third of new arties in the game useable. Its insane that the majority of new items thedevs put in the game are totally not useable. Look at the Under the Sea thing. all the drops are trash. (ok the gargish shortspear is a very good pvp weapon ill give them taht) no one went there after the first week. Ive never been there.

    Players should be excited to do new content, not look at the items and realize its not even worth doing.


    P.S. none of these changes will ever happen. most we can hope for is doom arties becoming imbueable again. that seems very reasonable.
     
  29. Lady CaT

    Lady CaT Seasoned Veteran
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    Except for the fact that a crafter is what helps you and me get to the most dangerous challenges in the deepest dungeons.

    The crafter is needed to make the armors, weapons, potions, petals, bandages, arrows, nets, cannons, horse barding, bolas, etc.. for the challenges of going into the dangerous dungeon to retrieve the rare artifacts. The crafter makes the ovens, forges, anvils, barbed kits, runic hammers, runic fletcher kits, potion bottles, plants, etc.. to make all the above equipment.

    If I don't have a reason to go to a challenging dangerous dungeon, then I don't really need any of the above crafted items anymore either.
     
    Great DC and Spiritless like this.
  30. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    In my original post I said..... " Now the above were just thrown together quick ideas of what a Super Artifact that can be crafted."

    Nothing was written in stone. I was just tossing numbers out as examples.
     
  31. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I personally think artifacts should be the most powerful items, at least generally. I think its fine to allow artifacts to also be crafted, so long as it's not en masse. I really dislike the current itemization in UO really, as is probably no shock to anyone who's read my posts before. IMO crafting should offer the most predictable rewards, and monster hunting should offer the highest potential rewards. Right now crafting in UO does too much imo, and dungeon items have become ridiculous to compensate.

    Of course they will have to do things like this eventually because of power creep. So in that respect, item combining is probably not a terrible idea. Give people a solid year or twos grind to get the perfect apron heh.
     
  32. kaio

    kaio Sage
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    Getting super slithers and what not, is a bad idea.
    There should be a balance between crafted gear and loot.
    Treasure chests needs to be fixed, there are simply too much stuff in them, there dont have a place. (marties,refinement, imbuing mats) have no place in thise.
    Paragons should have 10% chance of dropping chest.
    Marties was fun 10 years ago. let them have a drop chance in new heaven.
     
  33. The Zog historian

    The Zog historian Babbling Loonie
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    You have my vote on treasure chest loot in general. I'd like to see, say, a tenth the amount of loot and commensurate properties on items, but refinements are fine with me so long as they don't prevent more valuable items like mana phasing orbs and forged pardons. Loot could be Shame-style with negatives, as long as the items are worth the effort of looking. A friend and I have been doing a number of level 6s, and I think we spend more time sifting through the regular items (almost never keeping anything) than finding the chest and killing the guardians.
     
  34. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    (New player quest have those blessed gear rewards. Once they have trained there should be nothing stopping them from beating up smaller spawn in Ilsh. Problem with the game now is loads of arty rained from the sky. Remove the loot imbue cap from arty and Marty and make them imbue friendly again.)
     
  35. Winter

    Winter Lore Keeper

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    I think artifacts should be unique, and not something craftable. They should have unique properties or a combination of properties that aren't available elsewhere. Sure, let us create awesome equipment with crafting skills, but still leave us a reason to go to the lowest levels of the dungeons for artifacts.
     
  36. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    i see this idea as similar to the academic books / arademic bookcase. so, we do already technically have items craftable from arties.
     
  37. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    I think artifacts should have one or two mods not found in any crafter reforge menues. Max point imbue value or higher. Brittle out the gate and 150 durability. Just think what you could do with some sleeves with 200 luck on them already. Or gloves with 15HCI or 15 taming. Give me a Doom drop kat with 100DI w/random chance for 100% elemental damage And I'll need enough of those to cover a span of slayers and a PVP weapon. Same could be said for a bow. The rarely used Hally with 45%DCI & UBWS. A rare dragon scale gorget with a random 40 resist in two spots.

    We have the revamp loot drop. They need to stop trying to come up with better arties and just leave it to the crafters to finnish the gear. Then again I'm still in thinking one character doesn't need to be a solo hero vs the mobs. There needs to be a cap on gear points so we know when we hit bad ass level.
     
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  38. popps

    popps Always Present
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  39. kaio

    kaio Sage
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    There are some rewards from quests in new heaven. Its not like thise items are superusefull.
    I'm pretty sure any "real" newbie would be thrilled to get a dread pirate hat with +10 whateverskill.
    Even if you get a paragon to spawn in iish..the drop rate is way off.

    But maby, we are seeing this in a wrong way. The game as is, is flooded with all kinds of items, some good and some bad, there are also player made items.
    The real problem is not imbuing itself, nor shame loot..I think the general problem is that items have a too long lifespan.
    So what i think is very simple..We need stuff to break more, we need to lower the maximum duribility that can be obtained by using poffs.
     
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  40. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Acid spitting Rust Monster with morph ability. They can spawn as a replacement at any spawn with arrow/bolt and summons/pet damage resistance. Thrower and dexers might be enpty handed in a fight. More they are hit by magic the stronger their acid spit becomes. The bigger the critter the stronger the acid spit. A chat call to arms for a Rusted Greater Dragon will mean any dragon slayer would be worth saving. GM armor sets with weak imbued mods would see life on vendors. Toss in a rare chance for a rust monster core. Turn in ten for a choice of nifty item from a list of goodies. Call it the carrot that can put an eye out.
     
    #40 Warpig Inc, May 8, 2014
    Last edited: May 8, 2014
  41. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    The whole problem with Artifacts is there are way too many of each out... every player can get one or more..
    Old days you had lots of different levels of skills and players equiped in layers of different types of armor and it took skill to work it.
    Now I can go to an event and pull up half a dozzen players there wearing the very same outfit... cookie cutter models of killing machines with the very same skills.
    I think its gone beyond our fixing any of this so the point is moot.
    You can't go back in time and the cats out of the bag so to speak... players would revolt if any changes where made that tried to deversify the levels unless.................
    New type of Artifact that was better then all we have and the dev limited the spawn to 1 every 6 months and it was gotten off a high end Boss.
    Per shard mind you so there could be over 20 of them but the trick is you have to hunt for it and the spawn is random.... could take years for the one from each shard to show up.
    So if the Dev made a suit and weapon up it might be hell to get a whole suit in under 5 years... but the pieces would be usefull and make that one player the envy...
    Now this is only an idea ...
     
  42. drcossack

    drcossack Babbling Loonie
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    Barbed runic = medable (since you're likely not picking Studded leather.) Valorite Runic Hammer = likely not medable, needs the Mage Armor mod on it (much like studded leather)
     
  43. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Can make the sammy plate for the instant mage armor. Downside is the point loss when imbuing. Tailor runic has many med friendly armors. With what has come about lately scale armor should of been made med armor.
     
  44. popps

    popps Always Present
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    It was my understanding that one could go to some special NPC mage at a Mage shop and have the "Mage Armor" property be added (or taken out) regardless of the imbuing weight....
    That is, no matter if the item has already 5 properties and has reached already 500 imbuing weight CAP, the mage Property can still be added for a charge by this NPC Mage.

    I understood it wrong ?
     
  45. popps

    popps Always Present
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    May I ask what has come about lately that is interesting about scale armor ?

    Did I miss any important news about the usefullness of scale armor as compared to other types of armor ?

    My understanding is that the leather types are more medable but have a penalty in losing stamina much more.

    Metal types are not medable (but i thought the NPC Mage in Mage shops could add the Mage Armor property for a charge no matter one had already 5 properties and no matter the 500 imbuing weight CAP...) but reduce considerably the stamina loss

    Woodland armor can host 6 properties rather than 5 so is helpfull in this regards. not sure what happens about stamina. Also for this I thought it was possible like for metal to have the NPC Mage in mage shops add (or remove) for a fee the Mage Armor property.

    Scale Armor ? I am total blank here.
     
  46. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    I believe you are wrong. Weight does not matter, properties do. Anything with more than 4 mods can not have Mage armor added.
     
  47. drcossack

    drcossack Babbling Loonie
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    Oh, that's right. I forgot you could do that. I was basing it on how it was before that ability was added - with that option, there's no difference whatsoever.
     
  48. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    The fact is nothing made with a smith runic as far as armor is med free. Sammy armor comes as mage armor when GM made and sucks up a slot. We need a quest to turn iron ingots into mythril iron. Then all the non plate armors could be crafted as med friendly. Not like basic chain or ringmail has a huge resist total over leather. Smith runics crafting is sammy plate and cross your fingers for the RNG picks of grouping choice mods.
     
  49. Dimitroff

    Dimitroff Visitor

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    Crafted gear should always be better than loot. After all - we are playing MMORPG, not Diablo.

    Dungeons should drop only crafting ingredients and crafting tools.

    PoFs must be removed.

    Insurance must be modified, so it returns you gold, not your entire gear.

    Then and only then will we see a real interaction, player-driven economy and real profession, called "Crafter".


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk qpppp
     
  50. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Ok about metallic armor but what about scale armor ?

    What is good about scale armor that one does not find with metallic, leather or woodland armor ??