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[Discussion] Should Doggy Duped Items Be Allowed?

Discussion in 'UO Rares Collector' started by Assia Penryn, Aug 19, 2010.

?

Should "Doggy Dupes" be allowed to on this forum?

Poll closed Aug 26, 2010.
  1. Yes

    25.9%
  2. No

    62.1%
  3. Undecided or no preference

    12.1%
  1. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    The question is... should "doggy dupes" be allowed to be bought and sold on this forum? Those who decide the rules of these forums are looking for feedback from the rares community to make a decision.
     
  2. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    Bah, forgive my grammar on the question. Obviously I need more coffee. I think everyone can understand the question though.

    This particular subject has been debated behind the scenes and since allowing them or not allowing them both have valid arguments, we'd really like to know what -you- all would like to have be the rule for this forum.

    Feel free to explain why you voted the way you did, but please remember not to attack one another. This is the community's chance to give their input and have it influence the way this forum goes.
     
  3. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    Very much against this idea. These items are they very essence of what an exploit is and just opens the window for more items of the like trying to be sold here.

    Items made by the game aka Event items, Server births, items not locked down correctly should be allowed. Items that were made by player hands by exploiting game mechanics shouldnt.
     
  4. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    I think allowing these would only open the door to allowing other exploit items to be posted. For instance Assia, items created with alternate names...

    Please don't allow these, unless you wish to rescind the spankings received for discussing items such as these. (and that is a lot of spankings!)
     
  5. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    Discussing how to do an exploit has never been allowed - that is not going to change. I haven't personally spanked anyone for posting these for sale that I recall. However, if these items were not allowed previously and the rules change to allow it -now-, I don't think it will make a difference since it can be argued the rules in place at the time were broken.

    The current bugged name items will -not- be allowed on this forum. It still works. We don't allow items that spawn, so they would not fit the criteria. The only reason the doggy duped items are up for debate is because it does no longer work and they could be argued as technically rare.

    It was my idea to put a poll here to get the boss folks the community's input on the matter. I plan on fine-tuning the list of 'what is okay' and 'what is not okay' on this forum with the community's help. Let's make sure that we keep this respectable... the boss folks are watching. *plays X-files theme music*
     
  6. Nastia Cross

    Nastia Cross Guest

    Whether or not the exploit is currently active is a moot point. The fact of the matter is that they were created using an exploit and thus have no business being sold on the rares forums. Allowing them to be sold is equivalent to endorsing the way they were obtained.
     
  7. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    Agreed on all points. Well Said.
     
  8. Apetul

    Apetul Rares Fest Host | LS April 2011
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  9. shulginist

    shulginist Guest

    Definately not. Surprised so many people voted yes...
     
  10. Fraggles

    Fraggles Guest

    Umm can you please explain to me what a "Doggy Dupe" is? Thank you
     
  11. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    Various items that were created via exploit to copy an item. The item did not retain the name or properties but it DID retain the color.

    Remember the influx of colored shrouds that led to them turning any existing one into a Monks Robe?
     
  12. BigEv

    BigEv Lore Master
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    :gun: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Just encourages others that this is ok. NOOOOOOOOOOOO! :gun:
     
  13. WootSauce

    WootSauce Lore Keeper
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    All of you who voted no have no ethereal clothing I take it?
     
  14. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    I have ethy clothing, and I voted No. I dont have problems with people selling or owning them. But I dont think it should be something sold *in here*.
     
  15. WootSauce

    WootSauce Lore Keeper
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    fair enough. it just seems that while no other real doggy dupe items have come up for sale in here, plenty of ethy clothing items have. just curious as to the difference.
     
  16. Promathia

    Promathia EM Bennu Fanclub
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    Heh personally I dont see one, which is why I dont think ethy clothing should be allowed to be sold here too.
     
  17. shulginist

    shulginist Guest


    Just because someone owns ethereal clothing you think they shouldn't vote no here? No real correlation between owning and voting no imo.
     
  18. WootSauce

    WootSauce Lore Keeper
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    Nope Shun, just making a point. Shall we dig up ethy clothes auctions that have gone off successfully on this forum?
     
  19. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    Let's make sure we keep this on topic and civil please. We all know there have been doggy dupe items sold here before... ethereal clothing, glacial spellbooks, etc. That is the past. What we need to answer as a community is whether we want to see those items continue to sell here or whether we do not.
     
  20. Fraggles

    Fraggles Guest

    well i kind of think they should be able to be sold on here. The ethy clothing and Glacial items have always been a top hit at rares fests and on this forum. as far as i know they cant be created anymore right? real LT sashes and Glad collars have been very much duped also as well as 2 story statues and many other items and they can be sold on this forum?
     
  21. shulginist

    shulginist Guest

    Oh I know they have been sold in the past plenty of times but my point was one can own said items but feel like they shouldn't be sold here like I do.
     
  22. Kimberly

    Kimberly Seasoned Veteran
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    No, I do not believe they should be allowed to be sold on this board. I feel that allowing them to be sold here cheapens (what I understand to be) the meaning of "Rare".

    That said, I still support them being bought and sold in game.
     
  23. The Scandinavian

    The Scandinavian Certifiable
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    Hi there,

    I confess I'm stupid but I do not understand.
    First week after vacation and no morning coffe yet.
    :gee:

    What is the difference in smelting ranger armor into ranger ingots and doggy dupe?
    I mean both are using a program bug?
    It it the way,the item is created?

    Are we just going for ethereal and glacial items or are we looking on a bigger picture?



    Regards
    The Scandinavian
     
  24. Tomas_Bryce

    Tomas_Bryce Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
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    The only difference is that doggy dupe made copies of real rares. In some of the cases, the hue was the only thing rare about the item. So, doggy dupe made the item obsolete. As a result, people tend to be largely against it.
     
  25. The Scandinavian

    The Scandinavian Certifiable
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    Aha,

    I understand thank you.

    Time to put my vote then.



    Regards
    The Scandinavian
     
  26. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    If the community feels strongly about other items and whether they should or should not be allowed, we can hold a separate poll for them as well.

    If the rule on doggy dupes goes through, we'll open a community discussion to get a list of what is all included as a "doggy dupe" so we have a firm list to go by. We can also open a thread for folks to give their opinions on any other items they feel are not acceptable.

    Unfortunately, banning the old dupes is not going to be possible as we'd be banning -a lot- of items including server births with no way to prove or disprove which are real. However, Tomas's warning about dupes will be put in with the other warnings and buyers can make their own choices on those. Doggy dupes are a separate category because you can easily distinguish them based on them being graphic copies with defaulted names.

    Let's get a decision done on this first one and we'll move on to other topics.
     
  27. BlissMarie

    BlissMarie Lore Keeper
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    I vote yes. I think they should be allowed on this forum.

    Perhaps "Doggy Dupe" should have to be mentioned whenever they come up for sale, but I do think they should be allowed.

    I think the main thing that encourages people to do things like duping (no matter the method used) is money, not that it might acquire the distinction of being called rare.

    Doggy duped items can no longer be created, can they? As far as I know they cannot. That, in itself, makes them rare. They are limited in number.

    If one type of thing is not allowed on the rares list, then quite a few other things are going to have to be disallowed, as well. Are sigil items legal to own now, or do GMs and such simply ignore it if they see those items? Bushels used to be on UO's illegal items list. Are they still on it? I haven't checked recently and don't want to stop and look it up now.

    So, some of you will buy doggy duped items, even at a rares festival, and not allow them on the rares board. That is what doesn't make sense to me.

    They are limited in number, therefore they are rare.

    BlissMarie
     
  28. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    Absolutely, they are by definition of rare... then again, so are Tokuno Artifacts that do not spawn at the moment. When I talked with Petra privately, I told her that I could see allowing doggy dupes to be argued either way and that both sides could make reasonable and valuable arguments. I suggested we propose it to the community, which is what this poll is for.

    I really feel my job as a moderator isn't just to wag my fingers at any of you. I really feel as a moderator it is not only my job to make sure you all play nice, but that this community is a community. Sometimes the RoC doesn't allow me to do everything, but when it is within my power... I will.

    To many times I've seen rares collectors labeled as greedy, selfish snobs. I really don't believe in my heart most of us are like that.. at least I'd like to think we aren't. I collect the rares I do because I enjoy it... its a passion. It isn't about the value of an item in terms of gold, its about the value of it for myself.
     
  29. yanaki2

    yanaki2 Sage
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    well i dont mind it. the whole concept of putting your head in the sand and they will go away is laughable, as well is the nieve notion that purchasing such items only encourages the people to find new ways to do it. lets be realistic folks there are hundreds if not thousands of players who have and will continue to purchase said items wether or not we here was to aknowledge them or not. most people who do this dont give a rats tail if we we wish to encourge this or not.
     
  30. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    This poll will close on 08-26-2010 at 01:12 PM

    If you wish to have your vote counted, please do it in the next few days. Thank you *smiles*
     
  31. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    Alright, the poll has closed and the community has spoken. We've gotten powers from our bosses at Stratics to make this happen.

    Before we make it official, we need the help of the community. We need to compile a list of all items that are considered doggy dupes so that folks will be clear on what is allowed and what is not.

    Help us to help you! Let's build the list so we can get this officially in place.

    Thanks to all who voted in the poll. Regardless of which choice you made, all of you who participated are helping build this community. Your participation is appreciated and your voices have been heard.


    Note: This thread is to be kept on topic of discussing the past doggy dupes and only those. Please do not discuss any other dupes or suspected dupes here.
     
  32. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    This is the list from the current sticky.
    Does anyone have anything they can add?

    * Glacial bandana
    * Glacial spell books
    * Glacial pants
    * Glacial pix axe
    * Glacial dagger
    * Glacial anything with no special names
    * Europa royal gold clothing with no special names.
    * Blue looking npc robes same color from the grizzle place
    * Two tone red/blue hallys (doggy dupped from avenger hallabrate)
    * Black hallys (some doggy dupe some before, but lump them all in)
    * Two tone red/blue long swords (doggy dupped from bramul or algid)
    * Replicates of other items such as ornament etc.
    * Paladin swords
     
  33. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    *bumps* No input from the community on this? This is a good chance for those who voted that they didn't want them on the forums to help make sure our list is correct for when we make it official. Thank you.
     
  34. Halister Marner

    Halister Marner Lore Master
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    Some additions:

    Ethereal Cloak
    Ethereal Kilt
    Ethereal Doublet
    Ethereal Crook
    Ethereal Footwear
    Ethereal anything with no special names
    Two Toned Pike (Unnamed Pacify)
    Two Toned Halberd (Unnamed Calm)
    Two Toned Bardiche (Unnamed Quell)
    Two Toned Scythe (Unnamed Subdue)
     
  35. Fraggles

    Fraggles Guest

    well if we are singling out duped items then it would only be fair that no duped items be allowed? as far as i know the following items have all been duped at one time or another....

    Servent of Tal'Keesh
    Arirang robe
    Robe of Britannia
    +20 stealth cloak
    Most Knowlegable Person
    Acid Proof Robe
    Ari Shroud
    Subdue
    Pacify
    Oblivions

    The list can go on and on whats the diffrence between theese items and the others? they where just duped at another time or way? please fill me in on how some duped items are allowed and others are not?
     
  36. Kimberly

    Kimberly Seasoned Veteran
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    * Bright Green "Earrings", which were Doggy Duped from the Heartwood Friendship Earrings
     
  37. Fraggles

    Fraggles Guest

    After reading my post after i posted it i just want to say that i do not support dupeing in any way. Im not trying to condone it i just dont understand why some dupes are being over looked. i know its an on going argument but i like my glacial and two tone colored items and do think that they are rare and should be recognized as such. i know this is like kicking a dead horse but just wanted some understanding as to why some dupe items are allowed and others are not.
     
  38. Kimberly

    Kimberly Seasoned Veteran
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    My personal opinion on the matter is that it is possible, though not probable, to buy/sell an item on your list is not a duplicate. There were originals, which were real, so there is still a chance that you are buying/selling a real item.

    With the "Doggy Duped" items, they are all 100% fake.
     
  39. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    Exactly what Kim said. (Thanks Kim)

    The doggy dupes basically duped the appearance of event items and are popular with some for their special hues. These are 100% distinguishable from the real items as they lack the special names given. The reason we can ban those is because we have a clear line separating the real from the duped.

    As far as other dupes, we will be making a list of items such as those listed on Tomas's list, but we can not tell the originals from those duped. It will mainly be a warning for folks as in my opinion, the possibilities of what was duped in the past is too vast and impossible to verify. We will only be able to list those that are quite obvious. It will be the collector's discretion to buy those items or not. Our job is to help people understand that the rarity of them might have been affected from the original quantity.