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Should EA Ban RMT in UO? Why or Why Not??

Discussion in 'UHall' started by HD2300, Jun 30, 2010.

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Should EA Ban Real Money Transactions in UO?

  1. Yes, Ban All Real Money Transactions

    27.9%
  2. Only Allow Accounts to be Sold for Real Money

    5.7%
  3. No, Allow Anything to be Sold for Real Money

    66.4%
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  1. HD2300

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    Should EA Ban RMT (Real Money Transactions) in UO? and Why or Why Not??

    Real Money Transactions are when someone other than EA sells gold, items, PS, housing or accounts to someone else for real money.

    From TOS
     
  2. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I say no. No because UO is so old and RMT have been taking place for as long. EA wouldn't bother taking the time to enforce it and mythic doesn't have the time to do so.

    If UO was a big popular game like it use to be then the story would be different and I'd say yes.
     
  3. Nexus

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    No point in trying to stop it, it would wind up costing EA money, and not in the form of accounts.

    I'm talking legal fees, you see just like with emulation it has gone on so long (Over a Decade) that it basically implies consent. Worst case scenario if EA attempted to shut RMT down they'd get sued and the right judge would rule against them...costing them more money than it's worth.
     
  4. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    no. what do you think op
     
  5. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    No, they shouldn't.

    RMT by itself does nothing different to the game than me giving you the same item(s) that someone else sells via RMT to you for free. All the game sees is Player A giving the item to Player B.

    RMT makes a nice clean easily handled scapegoat because that's when you see someone profit (the HORROR!... by the way, when did profit become such a dirty word in our society anyway? People shoudl read less Marx and more Rand IMO), but RMT is only a symptom of a bigger problem... EXPLOITING.

    You want to fix the game, go fater the exploiters for exploiting, not after RMT for the sake of trying to shut down RMT (which doesn't work).

    As long as a player has obtained the items they are selling LEGITIMATELY (i.e. without exploiting), then it's really noone else's business but that player and to whom they are selling/giving/etc what they do with said item and how they create the exchange.
     
  6. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    No. It would be nice if EA implemented a secure trading system instead. They could even take 10% or so of the sales and make a nice profit. Then ban all RMT outside of this system for safety reasons.
     
  7. Jandruz

    Jandruz Journeyman
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    Sounds like a good idea to me.
     
  8. HD2300

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    It is in the TOS that if EA doesnt take steps to stop the sales and transfer of EA property, i.e. pixel-crack, it does not make it legal. You can argue that EA has taken steps too, as in game RMT advertising is not allowed.

    My interpretation of the TOS is that only accounts can be sold. Selling anything else is in violation of the TOS.

    My opinion is I dont care if someone sells stuff like once every 6 months, but those that sell things regularly should be banned.
     
  9. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    JC's idea would probably be the best bet with the caveat that there's really no way you can effectively stop trading outside the system, ban or no.

    However what an EA run system could do beyond being a possible income generator, is also provide an internal method of flagging traders for investigation of exploiting (for those that remember the ebay days, you would likely see auctions for the same (LARGE) amount of goods on multiple shards from the same seller. In the EA system that could possibly trigger an internal investigation to determine if the seller was in fact exploiting the game in some fashion. This would be easily done because (in theory) the trade board accounts would be tied to the game accounts.

    I support a moderated system definitely, however, I do want to reiterate that really there's no way you can effectively STOP any such RMT trading outside that system.
     
  10. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    I work hard IRL and want to play when I get home. Granted, alot of you are PvMers, which is rather cheap. I PvP almost exclusively, which gets rather pricey. I don't have time anymore to farm for my stuff, so If I want to buy 500 mil in gold, why should anyone stop me. I make the broker happy, the person selling me the items happy, and EA happy (my account is still on) win win win situation.
     
  11. HD2300

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    That is what Markey Dragon wants to do now for other companies.

    But 10% is insignificant. EA should get a bigger slice of the pie, not just a tiny 10%, which means even more money spent on making UO better.

    For example gold/resource farmers sell their gold to brokers to resell to the public. Why doesnt EA take out "professional" gold/resource farmers and brokers completely out of the equation and get 100% of this profit themselves?
     
  12. Fat Midnight

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    Why do you care? What about this bothers you so much? Who cares if its illegal?
    How would creating mass amounts of gold be good for the game? With gold/items sold via 3rd parties the items are already there.
     
  13. UOKaiser

    UOKaiser Guest

    Where in the TOS. There is no mention of people paying for people time in receiving such items. Every RMT trade is under the explicit assumption that EA owns everything in the game. You are only paying for the person time and effort in aquiring such item. Can't even fight againt that in any court of law that I know of.
    I wish there was more interest in RMT sales for this old game. We would get people from all over the world joining hoping to make a buck in this recession. Bringing up the subscription count and profit UO makes then giving more fuinds for Ea to expand this game further. Right now WOW got all the RMT sales which is one big reason it got such a huge playerbase in the first place.
    Before the ebay ban of virtual goods UO subscription was the highest it ever being. After the ebay ban subscription dropped dramaticaly. It wasn't UO fault it was Ebay fault that they couldn't protect people from scams.
     
  14. HD2300

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    If anything is sold it is better EA gets 100% of the profit, not 0% of it. That will mean EA will spend more money on making UO better and advertising it.

    Some gold/items sold via 3rd parties are gathered by gold/resource farmers. Again it is better EA gets 100% of this profit, instead of 0% of it. e.g. Ingot gatherer gets $20000 of ingots per year. EA gets $150 in account fees. Now if EA removes the ingot farmer and supplies the ingots, EA gets $20000 per year. Now imagine if this is done for all the gold and resource farmers.
     
  15. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    If EA takes too much then people will just do it illegally.

    No gaming company sells their game currency. Why? Because it would absolutely ruin the reward aspect of playing the game. Selling items in the game is fine as long as they are they only way to get it.
     
  16. Nexus

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    Never checked out Second Life have you?
     
  17. Fat Midnight

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    You dont think that this will make inflation even worse?
     
  18. Kellgory

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    Doesn't some of the other popular MMO's ban selling items for real cash, and how is that working out for them. A quick google search will turn up several websites selling items for just about any game you play. Plus who are they going to hire to police the web to stop these people from selling items, and how are they going to justify the cost when they are laying off other people. Let's face it, UO can't even stop people from cheating in the game, so I really don't think they are going to step it up a notch and start tracking down these accounts linked to people who sell items for cash.

    As far as EA making money off the game in other ways, they already are doing that...just check out the items on their gamecode website. They have basically bacame pixel pimps, selling their wares to anyone with cash. What was once something that you might have gotten as an anniversary gift or vet reward will now cost you $$$. Pretty much they have taken a que from these "free" games that you have to pay them money if you want better items or extra perks. Problem is they are probably loosing money since some of these people are probably buying one item or borrowing it from someone then duping it and turning around and selling it for less than EA.

    Maybe EA should impliment a UO wealth re-distribution plan, where once a month one char per account will need to go to Luna bank with five packies and an empty bank box and just say "gimme gimme gimme" and they will get x amount of each crafting and imbueing resource, at least one of each runic, an assortment of artifacts and rares, plus a couple mill just for good measure. If you want more runics, then you can fill bods with the resources that you got. People would keep their accounts open just for the monthly give aways so more money for EA, and everyone else is happy because they play the game to have fun not gather resources, craft, do quests, or hunt. And yes I'm not being serious about anything in this last paragraph.
     
  19. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Pretty good points. In a way, EA does sell gold. Buy some transfer tokens then turn around and sell them for gold! Shouldn't be any problem making gold off of them as just about anyone with gold will buy them :D
     
  20. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    Second life isn't really a game. It is like Playstation Home where you build a house and people visit. On top of that, as I understand it the only way to get game currency is to purchase it. You don't kill monsters and it appears from thin air. So if they didn't sell it, it wouldn't exist. It would be like Star Trek.
     
  21. HD2300

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    If EA "creates" the same amount as the gold/resource farmers did, assuming they are now out of action, then the inflation will be exactly the same. It may even encourage EA to put in more gold/resource sinks into the game, such as selling limited edition rares on vendors.
     
  22. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I have always been against selling anything game related for real money as I think in the end it harms the game.

    I think online computer games should be exclusively played for entertainment and there should be no money involved.
     
  23. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    That would be nice. But it isn't how things work. Game companies need to make money. The industry is shifting towards game items being sold for money. It is literally printing cash for them out of thin air.
     
  24. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Or several F2P games.
     
  25. I voted no, its the way it is and its the way it should stay thanks :lol:
     
  26. Aurelius

    Aurelius Babbling Loonie
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    If this was the launch of UO, then maybe there is a good argument for banning RMT (although it's dooubtful if it is practical, since it seems to be almost unenforceable - pretty much all games that have currencies get those currencies traded somewhere on the internet, regardless of their policies, and most seem unable and/or unwilling to resource the tracking down and effective banning of accounts used for this).

    But - we are where we are. The things that have gone wrong with the UO 'economy' would not be fixed by adopting a policy that won't or can't be enforced, and while I dislike the idea that some can do better in a game by spending RL cash than others can do by simply playing, it's also how the entire world works outside the game.

    No point at all standing for "how I think the world should be" unless you can also demonstrate how it can be made to work that way, when it currently doesn't.
     
  27. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    Yes, but that's too late. GF poor people, go farm now.
     
  28. Demonous

    Demonous Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
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    i voted yes, however its far too late for this, i have never spent a dime on in game items/accounts in 10 years of playing other than paying for my subscription, its a shame how many rare collectors buy gold and then buy rares with their gold when i have built up my collection by playing and earning all my gold to buy rares
     
  29. longshanks

    longshanks Guest

    My kids play Fantage and they have just started selling zr equiv of gold.

    Sorta annoyed me as this is a game geared for pre teens.


    I don't have a problem with anyone making a buck off this game. Unfortunately I fear that many who do so are violating the TOS in how they come about their gold.

    EA will never be able to stop these types of transactions though. Sorta like the IRS can't stop the Superbowl box. Their time is better spent focusing on 3rd party apps in order to cause a disruption in the gold faucet.
     
  30. Dakkon Blackblade

    Dakkon Blackblade Seasoned Veteran
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    No point in banning it now the damage was done a long time ago, it would be a token gesture it this point in the game.
     
  31. lucitus

    lucitus UOEC Modder
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    You can say what you want but there is only an offer if there a customers.

    And iam happy with that many years, Mythic is tolerating it and this is cool for me! Sometimes i have simply not the time to play as many hours as other players, but i also want to play high class PvP, i can buy only the work others had to get this item or gold.

    I also buy things at uogamecodes i like to have, the pen very usefull, the nice earrings. So why not?
     
  32. Surgeries

    Surgeries Grand Poobah
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    I agree with this sentiment...which agreed with JC's sentiment.
     
  33. Trevelyan

    Trevelyan Guest

    You pay a monthly fee to play UO, so you're already paying for items!

    "Selling" items is just selling access to them. You don't "own" the items you've acquired after years paying for UO in the same way you don't "own" them for buying them for real-life cash.

    Back in 2000 - 2002 or so, myself and others used to fund paying for UO through gametime codes, bought for gold (back when you could get 90 days for a couple of mil). The only way this could have been worth doing for the people providing the codes is if they could sell the gold, although it turned out later that lots of gametime codes were bought with stolen credit cards :(

    Its a pity that you can't buy gametime for gold anymore but I think that if you pay a subscription fee for a game, that would automatically place some sort of real-world value on in-game goods. You could even translate items and their value between games based not only on how popular a game is but also the time it takes to get those items (resources, rare items etc) in the space of a billing cycle.

    There is also the simple arguement for free-to-play/microtransaction games that time = money. If it takes an hour to get x of a resource, you could say it is worth the minimum wage of the country of the buyer :D.

    Personally I think that sales of UO stuff is totally not worth it, for me. The money I would get out of UO is totally disproportionate to the time and money that I've put into UO. In addition, no matter how much I could make from selling my stuff, I could always make more in real life for the time it has taken me to accumulate said goods. Finally, if you start seeing UO as a way to make money, is it really a game anymore to you?

    On the other hand, buying stuff for cash isn't so bad. In the case of certain promotional items or items that you cannot get through normal gameplay, I could see a justification. For me, the only thing I could think of there would be veteran rewards and I don't think it unreasonable that perhaps EA could offer additional reward choices for an account (for example, 1 choice for $2 or 3 choices for $5). A 12th year veteran rewards is only available to a 12th year veteran and no matter how many tens of hours they spend in-game, you've already had to pay the best part of $1500 to get the rewards you already have.

    For me the most frustrating part of veteran rewards is the addition of new choices. They have brought out braziers and potted cactuses for third and sixth year choices in addition to a range of twelfth year choices. Nobody sells them because everyone is choosing flaming commodity deed boxes. I would so like to have more choices so that I can actually GET the new rewards on offer!
     
  34. Everything is and always will be available for CASH.

    We live in reality the game is a game. Some people prefer to buy what they need because of real life. They'd rather buy 20 million the create it in game play.

    I haven't sold anything for cash since ebay ended. I loved it. I had over 7 accounts. It support my game play and accounts. Now Im down to 2.

    I think EA should create a REAL LIFE CASH auction. They get a % of the sale. We can list items. Create buyer and seller protection.

    The KICKER. EA SHOULD create a trade transaction window that actually tracks the trade as a receipt of product and payment.

    Maybe be the first company to do so. EA I am available to develop this idea.
     
  35. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    And should they be allowed?
    You know... using your words, a game is a game so wtf is "buying game resources instead of playing to get them" doing in a game?
    It's strange how something that would sound totally stupid in a solo game suddenly becomes logical in a mmo.

    But yeah, rich people IRL can't buy intelligence, so they believe they deserve to be able to use their money to reach the endgame without any effort.
    And there are always losers who are so much after making money that when they see an opportunity to earn some in a game, they already are selling their mothers on ebay.

    So whatever, use excuses to sell game stuff for real money, use excuses to skip what's not worth playing for Your Highness. RMT kills games mood and increase support costs, but yeah if you rack up more, you must be a superior player that deserve some respect!
     
  36. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Well ....... originaly you couldnt sell anything from uo. GM's got wind of it they put the foot down. So the first year many got baned for it, and up to about year 3 they were hot on account sales being done. Later on Ebay was the ticket to buy anything UO. With that stoped after years of bickering EA got them to stop selling UO and other games joined in.

    EA got some smarts and started the UO store why bust chops just fleece the buyers and make money. Only thing is they didnt go all the way and sell gold. In my opinion that is a mistake but I dont run EA. Personaly I would put a npc vendor in every shard including siege to sell at high gold any and all Arties/Deco item *** note I said at High Gold*** this way the poor shlep who cant get one can save his uo pennies and buy the blody thing and not have some nut put a easy get item up for so high its obsene. Not only would EA/MYTHIC make money on the game but if they sold gold (buy a tolken for set amounts ie: 10 mill, 20 mill, 50mill, 100mill) it would have stoped alot of farmers.
     

  37. Dude Relax.

    Real life, someone works 40-50 hours a week. Makes money. Raises family. Has an extra $100 a month but little time to play a GAME.

    So, that persons buys some gold. And the plays the parts of the game they like in the little time they have.

    Its not that complicated. And yeah its a game. Not real life.
     
  38. Evlar

    Evlar Guest

    Personally, I think they should make the game FTP and sell anything and everything themselves. :)
     
  39. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Yes.

    How does it sound stupid? People buy items and resources for solo games all the time. Take games like Dragon Age or Mass Effect 2.

    Intelligence doesn't get you to the endgame either. Buying items doesn't really get you to the endgame either, there's still quite a lot of effort involved, but at least it now fits your game time. And yes, they do deserve it, just like a rich guy deserves his 50 accounts if he wants to have that.

    Or maybe its simply players quitting who wants to cash out on what they have.

    RMT doesn't kill games, it generally enhances games where needed.
     
  40. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    I have never before seen on these boards anyone else who posts so much blatantly false information.
     
  41. Thunderz

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    Before Ebay stopped the sale of "vertual" items i probably spent about £1000 for items and gold (back in 2002ish) so i could actually get started in the game as 1000gp and the clothes on your back got you no where compired to where the game was at.

    The dupes hurt the game bad i saw it with my own eyes (sold my 1 of a kind boots for 15mill just before i left and 2 years later when i come back everyone has a pair and paying rediculus amounts for them).

    BUT while Ebay was stil allowing i managed to make my investment back from also getting into selling on Ebay.

    I find now, most people who are returning players see that you really cant get anywere in this game without atleast 100mill (and thats cheeep as it will only buy you your arties a crimson, counjours trinket/robe, ingots to bard your mount or 5 nice pets if your a tamer.) but there comng back from 5-8 years and have if 1 mill.

    So the sale of gold is still very popular as returning players who want to get back into UO as they love the game realise they can spend $60 on 100 mill and get comfortably back into the game as thats what it costs now to just build one char apposed to there 1000gp they get, which today is just not gona work (unless you want it like wow or old UO where you have to spend 8 months just to be at a lvl you can kill anything worth killing).

    UO is past that (12 years now?) you need to start with atleast 10mill just to be able to reutrn to the game and buy a worth while suite you can hunt in to build gold up.

    Thunderz
     
  42. Thunderz

    Thunderz Certifiable
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    Can you elaberate how that was so blatently false info please?

    Thanks

    Thunderz
     
  43. Smoot

    Smoot Grand Poobah
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    Ideally, im against real money becoming involved in a game. However, like many others have said, uo is very old, and for any new player to become established, its almost necessary to allow gold to be purchased. Someone can of course get started / back into the game if they have old friends, join a generous guild, or straight out beg or scam. But its alot easier and less time consuming to buy gold if you dont have years of playing / building characters.

    That being said, i think EA should simply make a website like the many that are out there. they could make alot from it. Of course, they couldnt just create new gold, as it would further increase inflation (i wouldnt put it past them tho) but carry on the current system of buy / sell.
     
  44. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    Very well.
    This is patently false. When Richard Garriott discovered a burgeoning after-market for UO pixels, he considered it a novel and intriguing side effect of his "grand social experiment." At no time in the history of UO has RMT been a bannable offense. Period.
    I will grant that this sentence, when taken out of context, is technically correct.
    RMT on eBay was not stopped because EA told them to, and UO was not the front-runner in stopping RMT on eBay. eBay stopped the sale of virtual goods because so many games (especially World of Warcraft) have banned RMT, and thus items from those games being sold on eBay would be a legal liability. The burden of differentiating between items from games where RMT is banned and items from games where RMT is not banned would be too great for eBay to manage, so they went with the easy solution: ban the sale of all virtual items for all games no matter what.
     
  45. Thunderz

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    Know you put it like that i agree, sorry for taking your post so "bluntly" as probably many will and disagree with you totally.

    Still back on topic, most people (69%) agreee it should be lagal

    From my point its because no one can enter this game with 1000gp and expect to play it for long till they get bored that there 1000000gp below minumim wage.

    Returning players are still buying 100mill (10 a week) to just "get started again" from brokers, its still a profitabe business if your name is passed around as a good broker


    Thunderz
     
  46. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

  47. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    EA should be taking the gold seized from banned accounts, and selling THAT gold for cash in their own pockets. No gold is created because it's already in game. I would much rather buy gold from EA than to take a chance on getting scammed by someone from Siege...yeah I said it :gee:
     
  48. HD2300

    HD2300 Certifiable
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    RMT profits in UO are significant, and many people have posted that there is a huge demand for RMT goods.

    The more money EA can make from UO the better, because
    1. UO will continue running longer
    2. More money can be spent making the game better and on advertising

    Instead of all this profit going to independent 3rd parties, it would be far better for EA to get 100% of this profit, to keep UO running longer and to make the game better and advertise it.
     
  49. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    EA should be taking the gold seized from banned accounts, and selling THAT gold for cash in their own pockets. No gold is created because it's already in game.

    Disagree... most (if not all and at least a very significant amount) of gold on banned accounts was achieved in exploitive ways either via selling illegal/scripted/exploited goods or outright scripted or duped to begin with. Best thing that can happen for the game is for all of that gold AND goods to be DELETED from the game entirely.

    Also, selling items for real $$$ by EA is NOT the same as EA selling gold. Sure the item is created from nothing, however if a player then sells that item on a vendor, it is purchased (in theory of course) by gold that was created in game normally.

    EA selling gold is the exact same as someone duping the gold and would do more to HARM the game than help it.

    JC is still right in this (which for me to say means something), the best they can do is take a percentage of player-to-player sales, otherwise, it will be NOTHING for players to continue running the black market and undercutting EA valuewise.

    I would much rather buy gold from EA than to take a chance on getting scammed by someone from Siege

    Could you imagine the completre destruction to Siege's vaunted economic model of stability if EA sold gold for Siege? I can... it's NOT pretty.
     
  50. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - I agree, in part. It would be better for EA to get all the profit from RMT... but how could they do that if they banned RMT? How could they do that unless they themselves duped UO currency (inflated uor hyper-inflated economy even more)? The '~10% EA middleman' -method is a better way that's been thought of for EA to get their cut of our out-of-game activities... but anyway.

    Dangit. I'll add this in hopes it might create some common understanding of the situation:
    EA currently practices RMT although they only sell certain items.
    Other games do the same, yet they disallow their players from doing so, which simply allows cheaters to prosper over the non-cheating players because you can buy nearly anything for money and someone is usually always willing to break the rules and buy - sell 'illegal' things for money...
     
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