1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Should greater dragon fire breath be capped at 35 vs players

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by Tiberius, Sep 4, 2009.

?

Should dragon Firebreath be capped at 35 dmg vs. players?

  1. Yes, it is rediculus.

    81.5%
  2. No, it is perfectly balanced as is.

    18.5%
  1. Tiberius

    Tiberius Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes Received:
    47
    Vote and discuss. IMO this would bea good change for siege.

    P.S.

    I think this is more important than the lame as hell faction runes:).
     
  2. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
    Professional VIP Stratics Veteran Supporter Alumni Campaign Benefactor Alumni

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Messages:
    8,023
    Likes Received:
    1,714
    I could live with that. :)
     
  3. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    Good idea.. both should be implemented.
     
  4. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    Free bump to point out the horrible typo.. it's ridiculous.
     
  5. nightstalker22

    nightstalker22 Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,099
    Likes Received:
    8
    Is this 35 damage cap before or after 70 fire resist calculations?

    Can we drop the damage to 10.5 with 70 resist, or do you mean that a naked player will take 120 damage or so, and the one wearing 70 fire resist will drop it down to 35?
     
  6. Tiberius

    Tiberius Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2008
    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes Received:
    47
    I would say 35 straight damage; if you want to run naked vs one of these things you still have to contend with it's considerable physical attack and mages spells.
     
  7. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    heh.. I've never seen 100% on a poll until now. Wait until Albertus/Havik/etc others respond.

    I want this cap though.
     
  8. Mr X

    Mr X Guest

    If this was trammel I would say yes, but if you are doing a spawn or farming I think you should not gimp pets to make people defenseless. Yes dragons suck, and they will get worse with the expansion since there will be casters with mounted speed who can cast on you with a GD. It is called gargoyle tamers online.
     
  9. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    2,404
    Likes Received:
    127
    First of all he said against players. Secondly your info about Gargoyles is off. They've stated that being in the flying form for a gargoyle will take a control slot and a casting time (similar to mounting an ethereal mount)...which means your not going to have mounted casting greater dragon wielding tamers behind you....no need to worry about that.
     
  10. T'Challa

    T'Challa Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,969
    Likes Received:
    15
    I voted no, and the bolded section is why.
     
  11. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    9
    A dragon will still melee for 30-40 AND cast spells. A slap from one and a fireball is enough to scare any PvPer away.
     
  12. shipwrek

    shipwrek Guest

    A cap on Spell Damage Increase is imposed on mages specifically in PVP. Why should Tamers get an in-proportionate damage advantage?
     
  13. Scuzzlebutt

    Scuzzlebutt Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,215
    Likes Received:
    4
    People seemed to get by fine with beetle and mare for several years before the GD's were avaiable.
     
  14. Mr X

    Mr X Guest

    If flying takes up a slot it is new to me, I only tested in open beta.
     
  15. lindzschaper

    lindzschaper Guest

    The only reason I say no is because I'm a tamer. If it was reverse, I would probably say yes.
    But, my dragon is my line of defense, therefore, I like him to ***k somebody up! Ü
     
  16. Bruin

    Bruin Guest

    Virtually all damage in pvp is capped at 35 (armour ignore, lightening strike for example), why is pvp pet damage not capped? Only exception to this I can think of is deathstrike, which is capped at 60, but requires 440 skill points and 35 mana to execute.

    Swing speed is capped, DI is capped, SDI is capped, HCI is capped, DCI is capped all for pvp, damage is capped, yet pet damage is not.
     
  17. Sir Morder

    Sir Morder Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Messages:
    1,745
    Likes Received:
    114
    HCI & DCI are capped at 45 but that doesnt mean you cant go over the cap. Just like other things, you can equip with over 45 HCI/DCI and be hit with a wep that lowers HCI/DCI and still be at the 45 cap. Seems like the cap is broken :)
     
  18. Wulf2k

    Wulf2k Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Crusader of Chaos

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    7,565
    Likes Received:
    314
    How is the cap broken?

    At no time in your description does anybody go over the cap.

    That's like saying the cap is broken because you've got 60 DCI capped at 45, take off a 15 DCI piece, and you're still at the cap! OMG, broken cap! Broken cap!
     
  19. Sir Morder

    Sir Morder Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Messages:
    1,745
    Likes Received:
    114
    The cap is broken because you CAN equip over the cap. If the cap wasnt broken then even if you equipped with 100DCI you'd still have the effects of 45 DCI. For example, 45DCI equipped, you get hit with HLD wep. You now have 20 DCI (or whatever it lowers it to). But if you equip with 70 DCI and are hit with a HLD wep you're still at 45 DCI. So it's a 45 cap, but you can still equip over the cap. If you don't get it, im not explaining more to you.
     
  20. Wulf2k

    Wulf2k Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Crusader of Chaos

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    7,565
    Likes Received:
    314
    I get it. You're wrong.

    It's 'hit lower defense', not 'hit lower defense cap'.
     
  21. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    9
    This is the argument, but as soon as mages started running HLA on stuff, warriors would be crying.
     
  22. Sir Morder

    Sir Morder Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Messages:
    1,745
    Likes Received:
    114
    I dont think this would ever be an issue cause with every dexxor running 45+ DCI it would near impossible for any mage using a mage wep with HLA to even get one hit it. It would take a mage to run 45+ HCI and i just don't see that happenin :)
     
  23. Sir Morder

    Sir Morder Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Messages:
    1,745
    Likes Received:
    114
    @ wulk 2k...you just don't get it :)
     
  24. Wulf2k

    Wulf2k Stratics Legend
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Crusader of Chaos

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    7,565
    Likes Received:
    314
    I get it.

    You're saying it's not working as intended. I'm saying it is working as intended.

    If you want to say that what they intended does not work for you, that's a separate discussion.
     
  25. nightstalker22

    nightstalker22 Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,099
    Likes Received:
    8
    So whether naked or in full 70's suit, I cannot take more than 35 damage?

    If so, just PvP naked so there is no risk of losing gear.

    If the damage is lessened to 35 with 70 fire resist, then you still have to wear a suit and risk losing it.

    If the damage is 35 "straight damage", could we then lower it to 10.5 with 70 resist, or is any resistance futile?

    I cannot vote until this is clear.

    I dont think a pets damage should be calculated the way it is currently, but should be a synergy of the tamers skills, pet loyalty, and how hungry it is, among other factors.

    Stamina in this game is a joke, but it should be a huge factor in everything, including pet damage and speed. All stats should be adjusted to reflect this.

    We as players should get tired and slower as we lose stamina, but with all the leech properties and stamina regen going on, we never tire, it is now a useless stat past 30.

    They should have never made GD's tameable, they should have made them like Ancient Wyrms, just another bad@$$ to fight.
     
  26. Bruin

    Bruin Guest


    Well, the same thing goes for Armour Ignore and Lightening strike, however stupid it seems. If i'm in a 0 resist suit or 70 resist suit, I only take maximum of 35 damage from these two special moves.....
     
  27. Speedy Orkit

    Speedy Orkit Grand Inquisitor
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    4,132
    Likes Received:
    9
    How hard is it for a mage to run that now?

    Mage weap with 15HCI/DCI and SC no-1
    New cool little faction totem
    Storm grips

    Boom, 35HCI
     
  28. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    2,404
    Likes Received:
    127
    No way should the damage be that low. Straight 35 across the board is all thats needed. I mean, literally that is all thats needed to balanced tamers in pvp (for GD tamers that is).
     
  29. nightstalker22

    nightstalker22 Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,099
    Likes Received:
    8
    I was thinking about it, and I've come to the perfect solution...

    Greater Dragons vs. Players should only deal 30% damage of the life remaining on the player! ( Fire Breath only )

    So for example:

    Player has 100 hp and is attacked by fire breath = 30 hp damage.

    Player has 70 hp remaining and is again attacked by fire breath = 21 hp damage.

    Player has 49 hp remaining and is attacked yet again by fire breath = 15 hp damage.

    Player has 34 hp remaining after three Fire Breath attacks.

    The fire breath will never kill you, it will have to be a claw or magical attack that finishes you off, because even if you had 10 hp remaining and were attacked by fire breath, you're only down to 7 hp!

    Problem solved! send my check to my address on file EA!

    ( Damage for Pet vs. Pet will remain the same )
     
  30. OldAsTheHills

    OldAsTheHills Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    21
    Hell, no! I rather have it as high as possible...Frankly, I wish that critter was never
    tameable in the first place...I prefer you be stuck with it as is. *grumbles dumb developers*

    *stares*
    Yahaxithonix
     
  31. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    2,404
    Likes Received:
    127
    The power is awesome in PVM. It allowes the casual player to do so much more in the game. Without having to be in a guild. On the other hand, its uberness does throw off pvp like crazy. I would love to see it stay the same in pvm and get nerfed for pvp. :) No one can disagree with that statement!
     
  32. Sprago

    Sprago Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend IPKU

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,768
    Likes Received:
    169
    NO actually your smoke bombs are your best defense your dragons are an overpowered offense
     
  33. Sprago

    Sprago Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend IPKU

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    1,768
    Likes Received:
    169
    And ya all know what gets me more then the dragons is that stealthers can wield them. If the tamer had to remain visible to keep the dragons as aggresive the situtaion would be different
    i wouldnt even mind the dragons then but i dont think a tamer should be able to all kill then smokebomb and kill ya as they are stealthing away
     
  34. Freelsy

    Freelsy Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    2,404
    Likes Received:
    127
    completely agree!
     
  35. Black magick

    Black magick Guest

    quite the contrary with AI. I love how in the poll, nobody who voted nay is a pvper, and most are tamers. I'm training a tamer, and YES this is needed.
     
  36. lindzschaper

    lindzschaper Guest


    Actually, I only have one stealth tamer which my wife recently converted to that so she wouldn't get killed all the time on her slow computer. My main character (Lindsey) cannot hide. But yes, that is her best deffense.
     
  37. shipwrek

    shipwrek Guest

    just thought this was worth repeating...
     
  38. Elfstone

    Elfstone Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,661
    Likes Received:
    1
    Yes, I voted no. I use my GD for Pvming only.
    Is it unfair for Pvp? Yes. So I only use it to Pvm.
    Sometimes I may have to try and defend myself
    but only on occasions where I was attaced do I all kill.
    PVPing with a GD is lame, I agree 100% on that note.
     
  39. Mr.StinkyPants

    Mr.StinkyPants Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 3, 2009
    Messages:
    1,448
    Likes Received:
    1

    dmg cap for attacking other players......not monsters
     
  40. Wiffle Dust

    Wiffle Dust Guest

    i vote no. as a nonpvp i know that if you pack 5 hell hounds and they all blow fire. you get the same effect and if people do that it will jus be."should hellhound pack fire breath be gimped?" its a "greater" dragon. ask for it to take 120 vet lore and tame to control. most tamers with a greater dragon dont even have vet. its patheatic tamers runnon around on repladons that do jack crap for dmg but takes 120 tame lore to use. why not try to force people to temp change to avoid gimp tactics insted of gimping the item?? force no ability for stealth and ninja to use a gd. or mage with no eval cus of skill neede somewhere else. this nerfing of everything under the sun cus you cant handle it is lame. its always faction arties blessed books faction runes smoke bombs nerve strike or some other crap. ya a gd is strong. ya its anoying and potentualy imbarrassing to die by one. but be more open to diffrent ave's of change rather than jus all out nerf. i dnt perticuly care. but i say no. caus theres gota be a better way
     
  41. Wiffle Dust

    Wiffle Dust Guest

    provo it to its owner is one anwser..but that was nerfed because someone got sick of bein a tamer and not bein able to get their pet around a bard.hence it was made unable to do. all these nerfs and bright ideas to change stuff foiled by nerfs and bright ideas to change stuff.:wall:
     
  42. nightstalker22

    nightstalker22 Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,099
    Likes Received:
    8

    Make it so that you have a 50% chance decrease when barding against the owner.

    Example:

    Say normally you would have a 30% chance to provoke a GD.

    Against an owner, that would drop to 15% chance.

    With a 10 second cool down for a second chance, and in those 10 seconds the bard cannot hide, that leaves the tables turned, and yo ucan sick the dragon on them. Would that balance it? Would that make the bard consider the risk of failure before attempting?
     
  43. Roland'

    Roland' Lore Keeper
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    864
    Likes Received:
    2
    A hellhound pack is not compairable to a greater dragon. Any PVPer can clean that mess up solo and quickly.
     
  44. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,511
    Likes Received:
    2,906
    Capped. As in, regardless of circumstance, if it returns with damage > 35 it = 35.

    And why on earth would anyone (beside people who enjoy their skill less uber-powers) be against this?
     
  45. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,511
    Likes Received:
    2,906
    Difference? One wither maims the hounds (the have 0 cold resist) 2 kills them. Regardless of how well trained they are, they aren't hard to kill at all, even the best have crap for resists, and unless you hunted for the perfect dogs for HOURS upon HOURS, probably have 125 hps or there abouts. Won't last long.

    Greater dragons were never tested for imbalance issues (even though any idiot could have seen them 49524895243 miles away) but they went ahead and tossed them in anyway because people messed themselves over the prospect when they saw them on test center. Pretty much a text book example of how NOT to run a game. No forethought.

    And yeah, there are lots of imbalanced things, things that need fixing, but there is one clear, dare I say blaring, game changing imbalance, that is head and shoulders above the rest.

    I say just delete them from the game (and take dread steeds with um), but we all know that will never happen.

    -A (near strictly pvm) tamers perspective.
     
  46. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,511
    Likes Received:
    2,906
    I absolutely think this should be an option, at low chance, but its clearly not a solution. The fact that the suggestion of making pvpers bards out of desperation is a sharp indicator of the imbalance a GD causes.
     
  47. nightstalker22

    nightstalker22 Lore Master
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,099
    Likes Received:
    8
    Now you're talking my language!

    if ($damage > 35){
    $damage = 35;}

    That's what I was trying to ask, but was failing. I was asking if the damage is before or after resistance calculations, but I see now that it is after calculations.

    Seeing that the damage will always be over 35 with or without armor, it would be to the advantage of the naked dexxer who only has his blessed weapon and a stack of bandages in his pack, knowing the only loss will be a few bandages if he fails to kill the tamer, I cannot agree to the 35 cap.

    Something should be done, but not a cap.
    I propose that the Greaters offense vs. players should use regular dragons calculations, or just drop the stats by 60% vs. players before calculations begin, except hit points and mana, which would effectively lessen the damage output.
     
  48. Kael

    Kael Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,728
    Likes Received:
    108
    Greater Dragon's should have been left as untameable imho

    As I recall tamer's have always been the most efficient pvm template out there since I started the game eight years ago.
     
  49. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,511
    Likes Received:
    2,906
    Well... dragons do have other tools than FB, if you went up against one naked with a 35 cap on its FB you would still be dead in seconds.

    But like I said, MY proposed solution is to remove them from game.
     
  • About Us

    Stratics is the oldest continually running MMORPG Fansite on the Internet. Founded in 1997 Stratics has served the Ultima Online Community for 18 years. We strive to provide the most complete social experience for Ultima Online players.
  • Subscribe Now!

    Want to provide Continual Support? Subscribe and gain additional benefits as a patron of Stratics.com!
    Subscribe Now!

    Stratics Professional Accounts feature the following advantages:

    • Ad-Free Browsing of our Forums
    • Upload a custom Profile Cover
    • Unlimited media upload storage space
    • Use of the theme styler
    • Ability to collapse the sidebar
    • Premium background themes to choose from
    • Access to additional features of the Classifieds System
    • Ability to Customize Your User Title
    • No Post Delays
    • Additional Signature Allowances:
    • Special Professional Banner Display with your Account
    • PM Allowance Upgrade
    • Additional Thread Allowances
  • Support Us!

    Don't feel like subscribing? Donations to benefit the further development of Stratics and for purchase and inclusion of additional features are always welcome.

    Donate to us!