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Should Paladins get more spells?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Dan123The123Man, Apr 12, 2012.

  1. Dan123The123Man

    Dan123The123Man Lore Master
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    I was sitting here wondering this. Reviewing the spells that each class gets to play with:

    Magery: 64 Spells
    Necromancy: 17 Spells
    Spellweaving: 16 Spells
    Mysticism: 16 Spells
    Chivalry: 10 Spells

    Is there any chance that Paladins will have anymore spells in the future considering they only have 10 (and half an empty book) to work with? I was browsing the internet and after seeing what Paladins have and one of the things were group spells. The one thing that paladins don't currently have are any group aura buff spells, beneficial or not so beneficial there aren't any at all. The fact that close wounds requires a person to be within 3-4 tiles of another person for it to heal them makes me wonder if this is in place to prevent the "Paladin" from effectively working with a group or being a supportive and noble holy knight? Paladins also seem to be the only class of the 4 that cannot summon creatures. It just seems like the Paladin is more of a lone ranger in a sense that there aren't any group buffs of any kind and there are only 10 actual spells to work with. I don't know i'd just like to see some more chivalry spells since 10 just doesn't seem like much at all for someone that banishes evil and protects the innocent. Maybe I just haven't read the story line but it feels like something is missing (in the spellbook, hint hint) with chivalry.
     
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  2. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    As one of the few people who plays a Paladin without also having Bushido, I think the 10 is fine. Remember that Bushido only has 6 spells, with 2 additional abilities that aren't spell-like (Perfection and the ability to parry without a shield).

    (Source: UO Stratics - Bushido )

    -Galen's player
     
  3. Mirt

    Mirt Certifiable
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    It would have been nice though to bump the numbers when they made it more skill point based. Give us a reason to go to 120 something higher. I am not sure if group spells are the way but I do think there is some room in there. Bushido has enough passive benefits that I class both it and ninja as weapon skills but you do have a point it does only have 6 stances, but I think the mana benifits, parry without a shield, honor and perfection bonus' and whirlwind damage bonus, as well as being a requirment for certain weapon specials even it out a bit.
     
  4. Thunderz

    Thunderz Certifiable
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    Paladins have dispel evil which is an area spell and holy light wicch is an area damage spell they also have nobal sacrafice wwich is an area res spell. So theres 3 [33%] of all there spells.

    Thunderz
     
  5. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    From day one I wondered why no create food or nightsite. Ability to cast Noble Steed summoning a ride that last as long as an undead horse takes to collapse. Still want negative Karma Dread to work the same as positive levels.

    Want to have more community start a new skill Squire. Spells that repairs gear after the squires camping kisks in. Spell that rez jsut pets. Bless, Heal and Cure type spell that are based off skill level. A method that like pets a character can be friended to another character with week long cool down to change to new friending. Skill gains from using squire skill can only be made while assisting your paladin knight. Crafting, cooking, camping, animal lore/vet and even chivalry skills boost squire skills abilities and casting.
     
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  6. Parnoc

    Parnoc Lore Master
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    I want the ability to at least mark a rune without having to have at least some magery and carry mark scrolls.............please????
     
  7. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I love the Paladin class, I love being one, I love being one of the few who is not also a Samurai, let alone a Sampire!

    But when you consider what we have, the power at our command if used properly, the idea of needing to create good or mark runes without the use of some other skill is a tad much. Will Mage-Warriors without Chivalry, some do still exist, want Consecrate Weapon? Will they want to replace, say, Arch Cure with Cleanse by Fire?

    It's important to remember that Paladins aren't Mages, and aren't spell-casters of any kind in the RP sense Everyone is a spell-caster these days in the game mechanics sense, to one degree or another. But in the RP sense we Paladins are still very much Warriors. We just have certain abilities that other Warriors don't have.

    -Galen's player
     
  8. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    I'd surely support a war horse, no more and no less powerful than a Lesser Hiryu and not accessed through a spell but tame-able and train-able, like the Lesser Hiryu is.

    Indeed that'd be on a short list of things I'm bewildered that we do not have, but to me that isn't the same as a new spell or new ability.

    -Galen's player
     
  9. Bard Songs first please ! and maybe equipable insterments with mods
     
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  10. Ashlynn_L

    Ashlynn_L Lore Master
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    I am all for new spells for everyone though it is important they fit the theme of the skill, don't devalue other skills (so no gate spell for paladins for example), aren't overpowering (but at the same time aren't completely useless as many things end up being), and are fun and interesting.

    Of course I'd like to see some kind of specialisation or mastery system for magery but that is a different topic. =P
     
  11. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    That is some interesting math.
     
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  12. Meatbread

    Meatbread Journeyman

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    I'd give Chivalry like a summonable horse at 99 skill or something like that. I'd even make the casting time a tick faster than mounting an ethy or whatever. I'd also remove HP decay from undead made with the Animate Dead spell, so that skeletal steeds have a purpose without exploiting a very simple (even unavoidable) bug.
     
  13. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    Sure they can soon as you give more to Bushido and Ninjitsu..... which have even less than Chivy.
     
  14. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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    Paladins need a Mark spell.
     
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  15. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    While I totally agree... Many of the spell sets could be "beefed up" ..... although I'll also say that even mages could use a revamping of spells and they need some cold damage spells added as well as some better area effect spells.

    I think both mystics and paladins could use a mark spell... Mystics could use some sort of recall even. Even necromancers cut a break with recall using the wraith form allowing them to recall with zero skill. I still think that if they can recall at zero skill with necromancy they should be able to MARK with GM necromancy and GM Focus or Med. But maybe that's just me.

    This topic has been discussed many times... and I know that dozens of idea's have been posted regarding what sort of spells to add.

    However I still believe that Bushido and Ninjitsu should be first in line. Infact I think that special moves for Bushido and Ninjitsu should be added that are weapon dependent. As an archer it seriously drives me insane that a vast majority of the skills can't even be used by archers making the skills almost useless for us to invest skill points in.

    Since they nerfed so much of both of those skills they just seem like they need something given back.
     
  16. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    The game actually has independent note audio files, so if the devs wanted to they could create a system in which a user could create "music." However, "music" would not work in the CC because only one player could play one note at one time (I've mentioned this about a half dozen times so far on these forums). In SA there could be so much overlap abuse, so there would need to be a filter set in place to avoid spam and allow a user to block the sounds completely.

    Equippable instruments would look cool but they'd be impractical unless all bards began to use wrestling. Besides, what mods, other than slayer, would fit? Just not going to happen anytime soon.

    When you think of a Paladin, you do often think of a mounted knight. My problem is anything less than a Silver Steed would be less than desirable ;P.

    I'm a mage and want recall to work like sacred journey. I'm an archer and I want to use parry. I'm a necro and I want to use shrukien and get a free poison. I'm a ninja and want to use perfection. Hehe. Well, UO isn't that sandbox. I'm sure everyone wants something they don't have. We can make seven chars, though.

    Not sure I really feel like Squires will work but I thought I should mention skills like cooking and camping shouldn't count towards our 700/720 skill cap. I wish a few skills didn't. All of our warriors should be able to cook food and camp out but then they changed it so you can't cook without skill. Boo.
     
  17. Equippable instruments would look cool but they'd be impractical unless all bards began to use wrestling. Besides, what mods, other than slayer, would fit? Just not going to happen anytime soon.
    Why couldnt they have the same mods as weapon and jewlery and armor and spellbooks etc. It may sound odd but i only use my bard skills to hunt Disco then peace or prove with the disco bard mastery !!! I do have Chiv for travel healing etc but would rather not !!! i invest more points in my bard skills than any other template yet still am forced to use other skills ???
     
  18. Meatbread

    Meatbread Journeyman

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    I dunno man, I had a lesser hiryu and even trained it up. Then I had it fight someone's vollem or something and it died. They sort of suck.
     
  19. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Better than a regular horse....Or a Faction Warhorse for that matter. (I think?)

    Not saying the Lesser is good in objective terms, but it's better than what the Paladin has class-based access to.

    Vollems (the from a crystal ones; not the mechanical ones you can make) are actually quite powerful; I'm told comparable to Nightmares.

    Galen has 2 but I leave them in the stables because I find it too difficult to keep even 1 of them alive, let alone 2.

    -Galen's player
     
  20. Meatbread

    Meatbread Journeyman

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    Eh, better than a regular horse in what sense? I'd rather just ride an ethy. Never need to rez an ethy. I'd rather give them a summoned horse with some small bonus. One tick faster mounting, or a touch of swampy-style damage reduction, or whatever. Something better than "This can sort of fight when you're dismounted but not really."
     
  21. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Can survive for longer, against more things, than can a regular horse. I used to use a Lesser to help me kill normal Hiryus.

    I actually knew this guy, before they made it so only Samurai could control Lessers, who used a Lesser in PvP to extremely good effect. (At that time anyone could control one, you just needed Bushido or Taming to ride and Taming to acquire. Now they need Taming or Bushido to ride or command, and Taming to acquire.)

    I was never that good with mine but this was really awesome to see. Used to be a video out there of him taking out 10 people, just him and his Lesser Hiryu.

    I would surely love to see several ways to get to the PvM damage absorption, of which I would surely like some kind of barded or armored horse as one. Comparable to a Swamp Dragon in Taming difficulty. Something like that.

    I just hate the ethy for some reason, hence one reason for always wanting alternatives; can tolerate if it's colored in.

    I'm a big fan of Faction Warhorses too. Both functionally (can rez one's self, no NPC vet even; high HP) and aesthetically. Even though 2 of my characters are in Factions I don't participate often enough these days to ride one without feeling disingenuous. So, Hell, I'd be happy if the Paladin Mount HP comparable to a Faction Warhorse.

    High HP. Marginal attacking ability. Damage absorption. Mere aesthetics ("summoned" like an ethy and a neat color but of no practical use, ala your proposal). Lots of ways to have a Paladin Mount that's worth having to one degree or another. (Granted no matter what they do or don't do someone will complain that it is too much or not enough.)

    -Galen's player
     
  22. Meatbread

    Meatbread Journeyman

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    Paladins are the only fantasy archetype where "I grunted real hard and a horse appeared" has any real precedence at all, so yeah I kinda like giving them a pseudo-ethy. I mean the hiryu... I never used mine because at the end of the day, I'm tougher to kill than a lesser hiryu. The only way I was going to get killed off of it and not have it die along with me was if I disconnected while slumming in Despise or something.

    I think this hypothetical pally mount spell should require 99 chiv, have a nice bonus, and scale with skill. Some sort of bonus that would make someone want to go 120 in chivalry.
     
  23. LordDrago

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    Perhaps also not be available if you have necro on your template...a bonus for being a true paladin
     
  24. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Hmm. The more I read about this idea, the more nuances get put on it, the more I like it.

    I'd forgotten all about the "grunt real hard" thing but you're quite right. It was in the legends of Charlemagne's Paladins (one of them was also a mage who rode an ethy demon which appeared and disappeared upon his command). The legends of Charlemagne's Paladins were the primary source material for D&D's Paladins which of course included.....A Summon Warhorse ability! (As I recall anyway.)

    I'm getting more and more into this now. In fact, I should stop thinking about it before I get really into it and then I am disappointed when they don't do it.

    -Galen's player
     
  25. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Too late....Can't stop myself now.

    We already have a possible graphic. Someone else already cited this animal earlier in this thread.

    Silver Steed - Hunter's Guide - UO Stratics

    Silver Steed - UOGuide, the Ultima Online encyclopedia

    -Galen's player
     
  26. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    *looks at UOGuide*

    You know I hate to say this but a Silver Steed by todays standards well.... it sucks.

    I'm thinking that if they used that graphic and beefed that up a bit. It would be pretty nice. Gave it a bonus like a swampy to your armor/parry/or defense chance... that would be pretty decent.

    I'm thinking if you could get one from the Stables in Luna if you are a paladin with Chivy 90.0 or higher... that would be a nice addition to the game.
     
  27. Meatbread

    Meatbread Journeyman

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    Ugh, don't get me started on all these vampire necro paladins. I'd flat-out make chivalry spells not function while in necro forms.

    They should get Grimm to draw barding on that Silver Steed and only have the barded version appear at 120.
     
  28. Dan123The123Man

    Dan123The123Man Lore Master
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    could maybe allow holy light to drain enemy stamina bar like Wraith form wither drains mana? (to make it interesting, that way they both arent draining the same thing).
     
  29. darkvulf

    darkvulf Adventurer

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    You already play a very useless template, i understand you want your template to be more annoying and gimpy, but no it isn't going to happen so just play the damn game and stop with your horrible ideas.
     
  30. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Someone ought to teach you CTRL+F ;P.

    A spawned Silver Steed had the stats of a Nightmare...UO Guide isn't correct regarding the spawn. For anything prior to ML you should probably use Stratics as the definitive source. Here's an alternative take which might be the most informative as far as the creation and removal of the Silver Steeds on production shards.
     
  31. Meatbread

    Meatbread Journeyman

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    On a philosophical level I also wouldn't mind the fact that an idea like this puts the equivalent of an ethy into the hands of players who AREN'T three year veterans or millionaires. The newb's ethy, if you will.