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Should PVP Theif and Theif forums be combined

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Jirel of Joiry, Jan 28, 2009.

?

Should the PvP Theif and Theif forums be merged into one?

Poll closed Feb 7, 2009.
  1. YES, Stealing is stealing and there should have never been two forums.

    56.8%
  2. NO, leave them separate, PvP and "crates" shouldn't mix.

    25.7%
  3. I don't know, hadn't thought about it.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. I don't care, I don't play a theif.

    5.4%
  5. Who cares I hate polls and think they're a pointless waste of time!

    12.2%
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  1. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
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    Now that "Captain La" is no longer moderator of the PVP Theif Forum do you think the two should be merged? Originally forums were merged to save space and so we wouldn't have alot of "dead" forums. Please Vote and explain you reason. Thanks!
     
  2. ColterDC

    ColterDC Visitor

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    It's rather dumb to have 2 thief forums, but not have seperate forums for Necros, Mages, Samarui, etc.

    I'm sure it was due to a VERY biased moderator. Instead of getting people to follow the RoC, he simply knocked other people's playstyle, simply because he didn't agree with it. Thus why they stupidly created 2 forums, instead of just making the Mod do his damn job.
     
  3. You know... I was going to post and suggest the very same thing a couple days ago, but they way things were going i thought it would get so trolled and locked I didn't bother.

    I would suggest in addition that a drop down selection be added (like in the trading forums) so people could choose PvP or PvE stealing at the front of the posts, in case some are sensitive about the change.

    The thing is, I think they are driving away potential PvP thieves my telling the PvE thieves to go away. They all can learn from each other.

    P.S. Instead of talking about biases though, we should be stressing the benefits and ignoring other things in the past that weren't quite right.
     
  4. Jirel of Joiry

    Jirel of Joiry Certifiable
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    Old Man I agree both playstyles could learn from each other! My Theif is fation theif but I take him to doom, Tokuno etc and steal. I pretty much steal what isn't tied down on him. lol I really believe both styles would benefit from a shared forum.
     
  5. Maplestone

    Maplestone Crazed Zealot
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    I would ask the two forums rather than U.Hall.
     
  6. Chad Sexington

    Chad Sexington Lore Master
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    Keep them separate. I'll use Magery as an example of why.

    *Self-respecting thieves would never get caught stealing from crates.
    *Self-respecting mages PvM all the time.
    *PvPers fight monsters in Champs all the time.
    *PvP Stealing has less to do with crate stealing than any other skill has to do with non-PvP of that skill.
    *The act of stealing is what separates a PvP thief from a crate thief. They just happen to share the Stealing skill.
    *Other than training the skill, there is no cross-over. And if someone came into the PvP thief forum and asked questions about training... they'd get help.

    :fight:


















    O.K.

    I lied.

    I don't care.

    Use my forums instead.

    :grouphug:
     
  7. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    It really doesn't matter to me, but let's face it, the PvP thieves (bold to show proper spelling of the word Thief) almost always attack the non-PvP thieves in the forums. I think it's better split just so that moderators wont have to keep cleaning the posts.

    Rico was a biased moderator, but he is NOT the only biased poster in the PvP thief forum, there are many others. Even before Rico was moderator non-PvP thieves were always attacked when posting in there.

    It's better split, less fighting there.

    I mean, if you never go to either of the forums, it shouldn't make a difference to you...
     
  8. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Be cool my Uhall friends. Those forums are open to all.
     
  9. Apetul

    Apetul Rares Fest Host | LS April 2011
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    It's easy, if everyone (crate or player) thieves post questions and answers only on PVP thieves forum, soon both forums will be merged.

    I Voted "YES".
     
  10. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    qfw.

    I'm sure most people voting and commenting here don't even use those forums...

    and thus wouldn't how the thief forum always treated non-pvp thieves, before the split and even before Rico...

    Before the new stratics forum here, non-pvp thieves were always told to go to the treasure hunters forum. As we can all see, there is no longer a treasure hunters forum.

    Edit: Therefore, unless you use those forums, you should only vote "I don't care."
    Or better yet, not vote at all...
     
  11. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    I voted yes La!
     
  12. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    I say no, here's why. As mentioned earlier the act of PvP stealing is completely different in all respects outside the base skill (stealing).

    Everything from Template, strategy, and purpose is almost directly apposed.

    Right now with how things are in game a PvP thief will almost 99% of the time have

    Stealing (derrrr)
    Snooping
    Hiding
    Stealth

    Depending on the amount of each that can range from 340 to 440 points for a base PvP Thief.

    Add in a mix of other common skills to choose from..
    Poisoning
    Fencing/Macing/Swords
    Magery/Chiv
    Ninjitsu
    Wrestling
    Parry
    Tactics


    Regardless though by the time the basics for a PvP thief are met roughly half your skill points are expended, just like any other PvP Template.

    Now comes the difference....a PvM or "Crate" thief needs 120 points of stealing. No complimentary skills at all, he has 580 - 600 skill points to use as he see's fit elsewhere. Or if he uses the right items he can use as little as 60 points in stealing and have 640 - 660 skill points left to be used.

    Those of us in the PvP Thief forums, not only many times won't be able to answer questions because the focus on how we develop characters is completely different in many cases. For PvM Thieves stealing is a "Add-on" skill not a full time profession. It's a different level of dedication and philosophy. While I'll admit that the way things were handled in the past were rude, and callous directing players to the Rares and Collectors or Treasure Hunters forums most likely got them the answers they were looking for. I'm saying there was fault with the execution not necessarily the action itself.

    Also you'll have to realize I'm in favor of there being a PvP Sub Forum for all Shard, and Combative Forums anyways so that people can find what they are looking for without digging through 20 pages of flames anyways :p
     
  13. Lord_Puffy

    Lord_Puffy Crazed Zealot
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    yes definetally how active are they? i mean cmon!!! save the space and put them into one. No real reason not too, would be easier for all thiefs in any walk of life to communicate.
     
  14. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Seriously who the frick cares? Seems pretty clear to me this is more about sticking it to rico than caring about the forums.
     
  15. Stealing is stealing... Rico always had an impaired judgement and a sense of superiority about PvP thieves over doom thieves.

    Even though playing a Seige PvP thief is like selecting "easy mode" on a game compared to Prodo PvP thieves who have to deal with passive detect.

    Combine the thief forums already.
     
  16. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Picking something up off the ground, even if it employs the stealing skill...isnt stealing. Do you think the skeletons own that urn? Of course they don't.

    As opposed to "pointless mode" on all other shards.

    If you bothered to go to the old thief forum you would know that it was a pvp thief forum, and that people were very hostile to people asking for information about crates which offered no help to those people.

    If it were up to me I would say keep the pvp thief forum and make the rare collectors forum the: Rares collecters and treasure hunters (non pvp stealing) forum.

    THAT would be more apprapos.

    Not that any like 90% of the people in this post (such as simon francis) even use the stupid thief forums, so why they all care so much other than to spite a largely disliked poster is beyond me.
     
  17. Huh... let's see.

    First off, my thief has never stolen from a crate. I might be called a rares thief, but not a crate thief.

    Second, my "rares" thief has the PvP skills you mention. I use him for other things besides finding rares. Works really well in Doom, waiting for something special to show.

    Third, I tried the PvP thief aspect, and for many reasons didn't like it. I don't get off on griefing other players, which is what many PvP thieves want, desire and do. They even grief the Thief Forum against people that don't fit their definition of a true thief.

    Fourth, any style of thief gains skill the same way and may use the same tactics. Some of those that I've read on the so called PvP Thief forum work especially well trying to steal the new items from the high end monsters now. What you are saying to fellow players who want to learn the stealing skill is don't bother posting in the PvP Thief forum until you start stealing from other players, and drive them away. The new players could learn a lot from you, but hopefully not your attitude. What's the best way to gain skill? (By the way, the guide in Stratics is not the best or fastest). How should I defend myself? What are the best stealing tactics? There is a lot of overlap in the two play styles and helpful advice on both sides. To say, "Go away! Only PvP thieves can post here!" is arrogance at the utmost, and not productive to either "side."

    And lastly, I've only posted in the Thief forum once. I've been there several times to search for a particular answer while I was gaining skills, and was turned off immediately. Have you ever stolen from a crate? Gathered a rare in a dungeon? Tried stealing one of the new items from a monster? Then that makes you a "crate" thief. A player who steals rares only today way want to dabble in PvP, but continue stealing rares... it is rather profitable. But if you drive them away, how will they learn about the alternatives? Who will teach them if you won't?
     
  18. Just because someone doesn't post in a particular forum doesn't mean they don't use that forum.
     
  19. Magdalene

    Magdalene Stratics Legend
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    Just a note:

    a. Stratics is not a democracy
    b. Do not assume that forums are created/merged/unmerged/deleted/whatever because of one former moderator...
     
  20. Leto

    Leto Journeyman
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    Probably. He had it coming though.

    Amen!

    Just becourse it's a tradition doesn't mean it shouldn't be changed. This was a very bad tradition indeed.

    PvM-Thieves probably have more incommon with PvP-Thieves then with Rares Collectors. The only item obtainable by a thief that a rares collector might be interested in would be the Ruined Painting.
     
  21. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    Solution: Get rid of both forums and make a Stealing forum.
     
  22. Magdalene

    Magdalene Stratics Legend
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    Another note - please refrain from personal attacks on other posters, staff, former staff...
     
  23. _zigzag_

    _zigzag_ Sage
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    The forum split was done for one reason, and one reason only...and that was to provide *everyone* who uses the skill to be able to post within their respective element.

    The other thing I want to clarify is that this site is here for the community. It is what you make it, what you care to make it, and what we can accomodate. Keeping the interests of the players as a whole at the forefront is what's important.

    That said, for every one of you that wants flavor A, another wants flavor B.
    We try flavor C. Sometimes it tastes good...sometimes it doesn't. If it doesn't, we go back and look for more ingredients to toss in the mix until we get a flavor the majority likes.

    We can't please each individual, however much we try. What I want to drive home here is that this site is what you all make it....and we DO listen to what is being said.
     
  24. cheerful

    cheerful Guest

    I voted no.
    Not going to give a reason incase people attack, flame, troll or tell me to go to another forum
    stealths away
     
  25. Kiminality

    Kiminality Guest

    Because PvP and non-PvP have always mixed so well...
    The entire attitude on this subject makes it clear that the reasons for the separate forums go both ways.

    This defines it.
    The only stake you have in this is getting at "Captain La", as a part of one of your little crusades. Even though it's been explained to you often enough that you're reading it all wrong.
    None so blind as those that will not see...

    Also, boycott.
     
  26. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    Given the fact that you have not one single post on either forum, not to mention the inability to actually spell the word 'thief' I have to question your motives in making this poll.

    However:

    The rares forum FAQ says:
    The pvp thief forum says:
    (that quote dated 2003)

    Where, then, did that leave the static item and pvm thieves? They have even less in common with treasure hunters, sharing no similar templates.
     
  27. Have you tried saffron?

    Everybody likes saffron. :D
     
  28. <shakes head> You really need to lighten up all around.
     
  29. _zigzag_

    _zigzag_ Sage
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    wait...waiiiit for it.....
    I hear somebody tapping out an objection to saffron on their keyboard... :p
     
  30. How about cake?

    Everybody likes cake.


    Oh wait.


    I know.




    Parfait! There's nobody that doesn't like parfait.

    Mmmm. Mmmm. Nothing like a good parfait.....
     
  31. _zigzag_

    _zigzag_ Sage
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    Except those who are lactose intolerant :)

    I know I know...we could have *two* parfaits...one with real ice cream and one with the fake stuff :p
     
  32. RichDC

    RichDC Guest

    definatly shld remain seperate:

    There are a few reasons i think of that havent been said...

    Stealing from a person requires alot more skill, and alot more patience. Its not just memorising a time and sneaking through a dungeon...or stealing from a mob and either killing or waiting for someone else to kill it.

    Thieves (proper thieves) can spend hours weighing up possible locations, marks and then when the time approaches items. A "thief" will just hit a target and thats it ...no thought...NO PRIDE!!!

    I havent been a long standing thief , only about 3months, but even i can see the difference. I will occasionaly post in the "thief" forum as when i get bored waiting for marks i have been known to steal from champ mobs. But, THIS IS NOT A PROFESSION CHOICE...that is just a boredom filler and as soon as the marks there, its game time.
     
  33. Does lightening up help? <increases monitor brightness, reduces contrast>

    AHH yes! Enough adjustment and I can't read any of it. The point of the conversation becomes mute! *WAIT* Did I hit the mute button, too?

    My point is...

    OOO... is that a butterfly?
     
  34. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    ROFL. This thread is full of win...la
     
  35. _zigzag_

    _zigzag_ Sage
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    You mean winD :)
     
  36. This is exactly the elitist attitude that started this entire thing. There is no such thing as a "proper thief" in UO. There are PvP thieves, and PvE thieves, with neither one being any better, or more "proper", than the other.

    The way the game is set up is that if you use the Stealing skill you're a Thief. What you steal, or what/who you steal from, doesn't change that simple fact. Anything else is mere opinion and/or bias.
     
  37. ...la
     
  38. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    One person's elitist is another's traditionalist...la
     
  39. Nestorius

    Nestorius Guest

    I nominate Rico as a UHALL moderator.

    One type of thief plays a solo game, the other plays a social game. I think that's the reason you guys find Rico so threatening, he's disrupting your complacency with your solo-trammel playstyle by reminding you of what you and your approach to UO are lacking.
     
  40. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Haha, do you know how many heads would explode the minute that shield was installed? roflcopters...la
     
  41. Omnius

    Omnius Crazed Zealot
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    i before e except after c.
     
  42. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    No, I don't mean that at all. :( ...la
     
  43. _zigzag_

    _zigzag_ Sage
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    Oh..my bad then. Seemed like it as some the latest replies were full of it

    But since this thread has turned to useless dribble...we can make room for something more worthwhile.
     
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