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Should tamers be nerfed from PvP?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Splup, Sep 3, 2008.

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Should tamers be nerfed considering PvP?

  1. Yes

    57 vote(s)
    39.6%
  2. No

    87 vote(s)
    60.4%
  1. Splup

    Splup Guest

    This isnt whining thread, this is just pure simple poll. Should tamers get hit by nerf hammer considering PvP?

    My only wish is that only players who actively play PvP would answer. Cause they are the ppl who's opinion matters on this the most.
     
  2. Fade[ED]

    Fade[ED] Guest

    Possibly.. The main problem at the moment, however, is archery. Solely because of the balanced property. All other things have been nurfed nicely and PvP is almost balanced.
    So, remove balanced property (maybe replace it with 5 hit chance increase or something) and its happy days!
    Ah yes! And ofcourse, massive timers on smoke bombs would also be welcomed.
     
  3. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    My vote is no, either learn to play better or stay out of pvp until you do.
    I have, archery's no big deal, smoke bombs are just that.....dragons....phhht.:lick:
     
  4. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    I'll just argue that some maneuvers Tamers can perform in PvP are as halting as Dismount or Disarm and in gangs are as annoying as 2 archers or 2 Omen spammers.

    Therefore I had to vote "Yes" because I'd vote the same for the special moves and the lame techniques I mention.

    Only fair.
     
  5. Tamers in pvp are useless it takes away from any skill and fun for any player, be it the tamer or the person being killed by the drag. I think if tamers are gonna be nerfed they need a damage cap just like everything else trammies have cried about ai wod ds poison strike etc... drags cap off a special move at 35 and then set a timer for when they can use another bleed or firebreath. Maybe make it so higher there skills the faster there timer is. or something like that. I think its bull**** that any seasoned pvper could be killed by a naked guard huging trammie with a dragon and a well plcaed bola its STUPID!!!! no fun what so ever. end of my short rant just saying tamers are reallllllyyyy stupid in pvp. I understand y people play them but i still think there horid for doing it....
     
  6. BbqLou

    BbqLou Visitor

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    Tamers shouldn't be, but certain pets should be toned down a little. I mean after years of begging they finally Nerf rune beetles, and shortly after they add two even more super powerful pets, ( Super dragons, Dread Mares) :sad4:
     
  7. Cynic

    Cynic Journeyman
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    I don't see a "nerf" needed for tamers..

    If the devs just make it impossible for a tamer to call a pet back (pet ball, logout, all come/follow me) after he/she has the pet attack another player.

    The templates I find annoying are the stealthers that come in and sick the dragon on you and then wolf form out. I can at least kill the dragon but unfortunately the tamer finds a place to hide and logout/login to retrieve his/her pet.

    This change will force tamers to stick with their pets that they so cowardly sick on others and then run for the hills.
     
  8. Gildar

    Gildar Babbling Loonie
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    Tamers could use nerfs in some areas, and buffs in others... but so could just about every other template (if not every other template).
     
  9. ake

    ake Adventurer
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    i think pets need just to be tweak a bit about
    -breath damage
    -fc/fcr and range of spells
     
  10. when i said a damage cap i ment in PVP only just fyi...
     
  11. Shanna

    Shanna Guest

    Tamers are hardly a problem.

    When there's a tamer on, it is considered the 'easy kill.'

    Lure off the pet, and guildmate kills the tamer. Done and done.

    If you're so incompotent that you can't kill one, then what are you doing pvping?

    Yes, sometimes, a tamer might kill you. Are you really going to say, a tamer is the only one that kills you on the field?
    Sometimes, an archery chugging pots might kill you. Sometimes, a necro/mage who uses evil omen every other spell might kill you. Sometimes, a nox fencer spamming deadly poison might kill you. Heck, sometimes stealth/ninja/macing/miner might kill you.
     
  12. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Ohh my... Yes I can kill one with my guildmates.... But I could kill one hit kills making bushidoarcher with my guildmates. I was able to even kill person who used bug which made him have 190 every stat and using Glacial staff which made 190dmg per hit (cause of 190 mana) so it made one hit kill everytime. I was also able to kill 120 resist full valorite platemail axer who had valorite runic made axe (when those we'r same kinda always)... I could keep going on with this list...

    The fact that character is not immortal doesnt mean that it's balanced.

    But this thread wasnt supposed to be about whining cause there has been these same talks on every thread so Im not gonna start writing more about tamers in PvP.

    edit: Had to correct a really bad typo...
     
  13. Gwendar-SP

    Gwendar-SP Guest

    I think many tamers were forced into PvP by folks considering them easy targets when they were out farming. Why should they be nerfed and returned to the easy prey catagory?
     
  14. Kelline

    Kelline Seasoned Veteran
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    until they let tamers get the gold from the kill... no they shouldn't be nerfed

    It's just stupid that they dont get it, to a tamer there pet is there wep so WHY not let them get the money?
     
  15. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    I personally think you have worded the question badly. NO, tamers should NOT be nerfed FROM PvP.

    As someone else noted, perhaps certain PETS should be BALANCED in PvP. There is a huge difference.
     
  16. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    they should not be nerfed, they should be balanced because they are overpowered.
     
  17. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    i find it ironic that the balanced property is one of the most unbalancing aspects of pvp.
     
  18. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    how can someone learn to pvp better by staying out of it?
     
  19. Chap

    Chap Babbling Loonie
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    Pets have always played a definite role in the player versus player envirement where these days faction is a thrilling drive towards shard domination and success. Only those who truly master the skill of animal taming can tweak its pet towards success based on the predefined training required for a pet to be successfull on the battlefield in various situations. Without the proper combat training and valuable timeframe ones can not achieve success and victories based on the control of a furious pet in a hostile envirement often dominated by a number of enemies who seek to control the surroundings of importance. Pets who aid with magic and meele attacks is often a precalculated risk which can be quite an expensive experience for the animal tamer who risk losing a valuable cooperative teamplayer in the endless battles vs the wrong side who happend to focus their attacks of elminiating the fellow pet.

    There are various advanced tactics and techniques that can be used vs a tamer who uses a certain pet in a fight and the result can be devastating considering the amount of time and effort spendt to achieve a more equal odds when facing the enemies. Pets themselves contains a limited amount of hitpoints which is further decreased after the taming process is complete which renders them less valuable as cooperative pets in a timelimited situation based on a certain moves which might not turn out as predicted. Also some special moves is removed after the taming prosess is complete which makes the follower less independent of survival and the amount of effort required to make sure its competitive on a daily basis in an ever changing envirement of evolution and adaption. The advantages of guilds and clans comming together to make this prosess more agile and less time consuming, not to mention less costy have huge advantages versus solo players which can only control one follower and is constant moving in a enviroment of low detail oriented possibilities premeasured deph in options and possible actions to counter the rapid gameplay in context.
     
  20. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    I gather from this that your point is since it is so difficult to be a PVP tamer that it's okay if tamers are overpowered.

    I disagree.
     
  21. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    I'm in the same boat as you on this...since you clarified that the damage cap would be for PvP only.
     
  22. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    To add to this, consider the IRONY on SP.

    I make a character (only one per account) that is a Trade Skiller.

    All the ..... screw it .... whiny cry babies have NO PROBLEM WITH PKING THAT Trade Skiller that is FAR MORE VULNERABLE AND A SOFT TARGET THAN THEY ARE to a Tamer.

    Then .... choose to .... COMPLAIN (LMAO) that due to superior organizational skills and superior tactics by their opponents, they get their wanna be (as in ganking tradeskillers, gate ganking, corpse ganking, new player ganking) BADA$$'s kicked and they REFUSE TO CHANGE THEIR TACTICS/ITEMIZATION (as in NEVER RISKING THE GOOD STUFF that could give them the win ... well if the new how to PvP) and go run to Mommy and Daddy to make it all better.

    Siege Perilous, the ADVANCED SHARD, were every one demands to be guaranteed the WIN by EA/M and DO NOTHING TO EARN IT.

    I really should put up a Poll asking if the players want their UO TAX DOLLARS to be .... directed to subsidizing/paying for the maintenance of SP.

    The REALITY is this, far more SP players do NOT agree with all this whining and crying being done by a tiny handful on the boards. Proving once again the OLD cliche, "The VERY VERY VERY few will be determined to ruin it for everyone"
     
  23. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    Enigma ... speaking of old sayings, why don't you abide by this one: If you don't have anything good to say, then SHUT UP. We are all sick of listening to you ***** about a shard you don't even play on. GET OVER IT ALREADY! You sound like my obsessive 5 year old.
     
  24. azmodanb

    azmodanb Grand Poobah
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    I voted NO ...

    I dont think tamers should be "nerfed from pvp" ...

    Maybe have the new super dragons fire breath be nerfed to a normal dragon, or taken out... but it's great to have different templates in PVP, even if some are tamers...

    Can't just remove people's playstyle.
     
  25. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    :) LMAO

    I have absolutely no doubt what so ever that you absolutely do NOT WANT ANYONE VOICING ANY OPPOSITION TO YOU.

    As it is CLEAR that if one is in opposition to you they are NOT GOING TO HAVE ANYTHING GOOD TO SAY, ERGO your logic is STFU. Leaving you free to lie, con, scam, exaggerate to GODLY proportions, represent yourself to be anything and everything no matter how totally ... ridiculous that would be AND CONVENIENTLY FOR YOU IN YOUR WORLD YOU HAVE SHUT EVERY ONE UP THAT WOULD SAY NO, LEAVING ONLY THE CHOIR. :D

    To bad they don't have a ICON for the fabled American Express Moment :)
     
  26. Ailish

    Ailish Lore Master
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    Enigma ... you are burning bridges. Take a look at my post history. I WAS one of the people supporting your overall views on GD's. However, you have become obsessive about SP (someplace you don't play), vapid, and in general an offensive nusance.

    I have zero issue with people opposing my opinions - if they do so in a RESPECTFUL manner with an OPEN MIND. Two things you seem to lack. Heck, I even enjoy a debate. I might even be convinced someone else has some good points and try to find a good way to present or implement them.

    In other words, I am respectful most of the time, thoughtful and have an open mind. I try to be HELPFUL, not OFFENSIVE.

    You, however, have gone past deserving any of the above ... you have become the crybaby with a closed mind, and as such, yeah, we pretty much all want you to just be quiet and go away until you can be respectful and have an open mind and discuss things like an adult. Congrats.
     
  27. Eslake

    Eslake Guest

    LOL.

    Even IF pets were as overpowered as people like to say they are, I would still say NO.

    Why?

    Because according to a recent thread on here, You CONSENT to let that GD kill you when you enter Felucca. :lick:

    As someone else pointed out, it is hillarious to see those who see nothing wrong with slaughtering a miner who has no chance to defend themselves whine when someone slaughters them.


    All they need to do is tone down the fire breath and FIX the stupid NPC spell queing so they don't land spells through walls and from screens away.
    Neither constitutes Nerfing. The casting is a bug and the fire breath is a balance issue.
     
  28. i think when people say nerf they dont really mean make it IMPOSIBLE to play one in pvp ever again. i think what people are commenting on is the 1 hit kill 900hp gd, the dread horses and such i mean it used to be rune bettles and that was fixed(nerfed to some people.) i think a better way to put this would to have said do you all think tamers in pvp need fixed? Because they are over powered now. I have one and i play him when were outnumbered or im just bored but seriously i dismount all kill with a gd and its almost an insta kill and i can 4/6 chug and confidance away from most attacks. that imo is overpowered. gd should be completly taken out of the game they have ruined every aspect everything is just cake with a gd pvp pvm doom pearless its really stupid.
     
  29. This game has always used what I like to call the "bait and switch" method. You give one group something overpowering, and then you nerf it and give another group something overpowering.

    There is always something out of balance when it comes to the different pvp templates. Unfortunately, it's almost better to just go with the flow and mold your chars to whatever is in power at that time. That way you can pvp on equal grounds.

    Not a very good answer, but these are always tuff issues to respond to (without everything going up in flames :flame:).
     
  30. ShaunOfPac

    ShaunOfPac Guest

    Honestly, no. I don't have too much trouble with them. I will however say, I just made a tamer template solely for PvP, and its so ridiculously easy to kill people on that char its not fun.
     
  31. Parser

    Parser Adventurer
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    Make the dragon breath weapon an area attack and limit the max damage an individual player can take. Never knew why a dragon breath only hits one person. That might even be useful in PVM when doing mobs.
     
  32. Sir Stain

    Sir Stain Guest

    Thank you Ingima for your reasonable response. The pvpers have no problem killing my defenseless miner and his packy. Let's nerf them then! They even "enjoy" his vulnerable status. I realize this hazard when I go to fellucia to mine double resourses. I am not complaining! The pvpers are always complaining. Everytime I go to felucia to a champ spawn, My lone char is killed by pvpers and sent away with dares to come back by the dominating guild. No complaint! It is part of the game for now. However I would prefer the Ils. and Tokuna champ spawns rewards the same as Felucia. Felucia champ spawns would be vacated then.
     
  33. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    good post.
     
  34. drinkbeerallday

    drinkbeerallday Visitor

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    where is Felucia?
     
  35. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
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    To expand on this ....

    As I pmailed some one involved in these threads ....

    It isn't Like OSI OR EA/M can ever tweak something with a Feather. IT IS ALWAYS A NUCLEAR BOMB.

    It isn't Like OSI OR EA/M can contain the tweak to just SP or NON SP Servers.

    It isn't Like OSI OR EA/M can contain the tweak to just PvP or to just PvM.

    It isn't like there is a single answer that will all of a sudden bring everything into balance,

    What history in UO and every other MMORPG shows is that any change will eventually result in something being over powered.

    BUT the people, the players can and will adapt to the change and THEY WILL ESTABLISH BALANCE. When I left it was the Tank Mage that ESTABLISHED THAT BALANCE.

    Then external forces made waves and all of a sudden the player determined balance was BROKEN and people come to the boards and whine and cry about how badly they suck. When they should be learning what they need to do to succeed ... well other than ask for Mommy and Daddy to make it all better for them and Guarantee them the Win.
     
  36. Eslake

    Eslake Guest

    You "Just Made" a tamer did you? ;)

    Funny, since taming 10 hours / day it would take you about 6 weeks before you could tame a GD even with +35 by jewels and talisman.

    or did you mean to say you stoned taming onto a character to try it out?



    I still say if GDs are so overpowered, why can I spend hours at a time fighting others in Fel without ever seeing one? I see Mares, Beetles, Hiryus.. but rarely ever see a GD - and when I do it is usually dead in a few seconds because everyone gangs up on them. :p
     
  37. Omnicron

    Omnicron Stratics Legend
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    I can make a char in a day or two. All I have to do is use an advance char token, get some jewls or items and BAM im there. Not hard. Ive done it twice.

    The real problem isnt the tamer themselves, but the pets. Cap a super dragons fire breath to say 30ish and make it to where it cant hit you three screens away then Im all for it.
     
  38. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    Lol

    Mages/Warriors/Tamers/Necros/Thieves can all chug but not Archers? Thats ridiculous.

    Mages holding a shield and casting a spell at the same time should be able to chug? Okaaay.

    I find it ironic that most of the people bashing Archers are supposed scary mages. And that these same scary mages also feel that Yew gate is trash.
    Isnt it common knowledge that Archers are of limited use at most spawns & almost useless at the #1 spawn?(Despise)

    So I am confused. These scary mages all claim their greatness & that Yew gate is trash yet they have gigantic issues with Archers who are only seriously effective at the Yew gate. Hrmmm.
     
  39. Really?

    Thread title:

    "Should tamers be nerfed from PvP?"

    You're asking if an entire skillset should be removed from PvP simply because they are what they are?

    Could've fooled me.

    :coco:
     
  40. Pied Piper

    Pied Piper Adventurer
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    I voted No but I'm not super PvP guy. SO scratch one I guess. What about if you had to feed a pet everytime it targeted new person or it wont listen?

    Or if you unnerf bard jus a lil *winks* than beat animals into oblivion with sticks of nerf :bdh: for all I care...heck I say nerfing of all monsters in genral especially in areas of magik attaks super teleporting Paragons that move 3x mount speed!

    ~Time To Pay The Piper~
     
  41. Anakena

    Anakena Seasoned Veteran
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    The problem is that people tend to consider Felucca or SP as a battlefield area while they should be considered as full worlds where people can farm, trade, fish, mine, or PKing, as they wish. One cannot separate PvM from PvP as everyone has the right to defend himself.
     
  42. I don't think anyone is suggesting that tamers shouldn't be able to defend themselves. Unless monster ignore and/or honor are turned back on versus pets, that won't happen.

    However, when a PvM tamer gets an overpowered pet and then gets attacked, they may look at that pet as providing defense.

    A PvP tamer takes the same overpowered pet and utilizes it in combination with other skills not to defend but to attack.

    I'm ok with both playstyles. However, when people begin using combinations of skills and pets that are overpowered, and can't be countered reasonably, an adjustment is appropriate.

    Toning down the GD breath weapon to bring it in line with other forms of damage in PvP would really help.
     
  43. My thoughts exactly Enigma.
     
  44. Multani

    Multani Journeyman
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  45. Violence

    Violence Lore Keeper
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    I dunno, some really good points here. I still wouldn't change my vote even if I could. Tamers might be fine, it's just that like a couple of other templates they can completely kill the fun in fighting if they follow a certain tactic. That's all... :blushing:
     
  46. galefan2004

    galefan2004 Guest

    LEAVE TAMERS ALONE!!!!

    This is the post of the week on the topic? How many times can you post about this same topic?
     
  47. Kael

    Kael Certifiable
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    I don't feel a complete nerf of the tamer is required.

    However, a reduction of GD damage and the ability to use animal form while controlling a pet would be most useful on all shards.

    I play on Chessy, Atlantic and of course the often mocked but never duplicated SP.
     
  48. Splup

    Splup Guest

    Im afraid I made this poll with wrong question.

    Now that I think of it more, tamers should not be nerfed from PvP, but they just needs to balanced to fit in...

    I think EA/M has learned to do proper nerf. Like 14 sek timer on apples instead of 1 min was a great solution I think. One of my characters is necromage and it's still effective but more balanced.

    Well, can't change the poll anymore.
     
  49. Doomsday Dragon

    Doomsday Dragon Visitor

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    I think that tamers need balanced for PvP like any other template has been in the past.

    I do not think they should be removed from PvP as a template that may can not compete with the others though.
     
  50. Kith Kanan

    Kith Kanan Guest

    No not at all... pets should be nerfed in PvP ... or well lets call it balanced , fc/fcr , line of sight and dmg cap and no one would have a problem with tamers or pets in PvP .......