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Should there be a signal as to who gets the champion artifact?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by JC the Builder, Dec 15, 2008.

?

Do you think there should be a special effect on the person who gets one?

  1. Yes

    26 vote(s)
    20.5%
  2. No

    101 vote(s)
    79.5%
  1. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    Our guild is currently discussing options as to how we want to handle the distribution of the new artifact drops. When you do a spawn in Felucca, you need to have people defending some of the time, especially when you are trying to fight off crashers and kill the champion at the same time.

    But some guilds may wish to have other methods of distribution besides whoever gets it. Maybe you want to have a list and each person gets one in some pre-determined order. Or you want to give people the option to roll on what they want.

    In any case, there is no way to know who got an artifact or even if one dropped. That is unless someone comes forth and tells you. If you do decide to spawn with some type of agreement in mind it would be very easy for some dishonest players to claim they never got anything. If there was a special effect placed on the person who got one this could all be alleviated. There would be no drawback to this unless you are in Felucca, in which you may become a target for murderers or thieves. But I think that would be part of the risk vs reward for spawning in Felucca.

    What does everyone else think?
     
  2. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    If you can't trust your guildmates, you're in the wrong guild with the wrong people.
     
  3. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    No, the current system is fine. If you're in a tight enough guild, you should be able to discuss what dropped to whom and what trades (if any) can be made for people who can use the item, if it's a pick-up group, then usually it will be everyone for their own rewards as it is.

    Also no need to broadcast who gets what over in Fel... let the CS raiders have to do a LITTLE work for their reward in finding out who has what reward rather than having that answer broadcast to them.
     
  4. Nexus

    Nexus Site Support
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    I'm with the above folks in saying that if you can't trust them then find a new guild. It's that simple....
     
  5. Dol'Gorath

    Dol'Gorath Grand Inquisitor
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    Nope. You get it it's yours.
    Not like you actually need to be in a group to kill bosses in this game unlike most MMO's. It would just cause un-needed drama. Mage gets a melee artifact guild starts drama they should give it to a melee person etc etc.

    Too much drama.
     
  6. Maximus Neximus

    Maximus Neximus Lore Keeper
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    I say no... However, I wouldn't be against there being a sound such as when a quest is completed, signaling that an item has been given. But I am against it saying who it was given to.
     
  7. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - No.

    Perhaps:
    The risk is that guild members may be dishonest.
    The reward is that the bigger the number of the group / guild, the better chance they have of getting the most overall from the event.
    It makes for a nicely balanced yin / yang, by my thinking.
     
  8. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    This is a group activity, it should be up to the group how the reward is distributed. Without some type of cue as to who got the item it is possible for corruption. There is really no reason why there should not be an alert so that everyone can know who got it if there was one even dropped.

    I trust people in our guild a lot. It is just you can never know about every single person and there are tricky people out. Some might even be tempted with dishonesty under such a system.

    It isn't like these items are cursed. You can insure it right away and it will be safe. Or use a bag of sending.
     
  9. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    You are saying you trust most of your guild, but not all. Have a snooper in the group if you're so paranoid. Read the previous posts and you'll realize you don't know your guildmates if you can't trust them.

    If the first major drop goes to a person that needs it, it should be theirs. If they intend to sell it they should offer it to their guildmates first, unless that person doesn't trust the rest of you.

    You are dealing in a paranoid guild. Quit now and start your own trustworthy group.
     
  10. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    I am not being paranoid about anything. We're not going to be killing our members to find out what items they got (as some others have resorted to). This is a way to ensure that people stay honest.

    So far the replies have all been "oh well don't play with people you don't trust". Yet I see every day people getting scammed because they were too trusting of other people. There are a lot of players out there who think only of themselves.

    You can play with whoever you want and decided upon any type of artifact distribution. But I haven't heard any good reason why this shouldn't be done.

    Even if there is a general sound that lets everyone know an artifact dropped, that would help out because then you would at least know that someone got it.
     
  11. AesSedai

    AesSedai Guest

    - Maybe if they give the guild system an overhaul they could include giving guild-wide reports in guild member journals when events occur (~JC & Bob recovered a +20 magery power scroll. AesSedai recovered a 10 point scroll of transendence. Person3 recovered a Animated Water Tiles with Rock decorative reward). Along with on/off toggles for that journal option. That might help guild management.
    As for broadcasting when & to whom a champion aritfact drops to everyone present... I'm still on the 'nay' side.
     
  12. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    So if a solo man jumps in, does decent damage and gets an arti.. you want your guildies to know that they need to kill this soloer. You are paranoid.. as I said, have a snooper on hand if you're so inclined.
     
  13. Petrify

    Petrify Lore Master
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    Ah the disadvantages of being in a large guild. I know my one, whatever you get you keep, however we do spawns 2-4 man (we don't have to worry about being crashed). I believe that the person who kills the most spawn gets the artifact anyway so I think they deserve it. And if your worried about them lying when they get it - why have them in your guild if you can't trust them?
     
  14. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    They should be orange in fel tram or malas for the duration of the non insurable stage!
     
  15. Vexxed

    Vexxed Certifiable
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    Well to start with... if someone could refresh me on the mechanics of how event item drops are determined that would help. If I remember right the more of the spawn you killed the better your chances ?? (killing the champ doesn't have anything to do correct?)

    Anyway...

    1) Your Request JC comes off as something personally catered to you and your upcoming dilema with how to run one of the largest guilds in UO...

    2) Personally... Say I raid a spawn with a few friends. The champ goes down and whatever "Notification" JC is requesting does not happen (no event item reward).. I DO NOT see that promoting pvp in any way..... the only thing I can see happening is people saying "hmm no one got anything and maybe deciding to go do something else instead of hunting down the enemy"... If you were UNSURE if an Event item reward was given though that's quite a bit of motivation to check every last corpse you can get ahold of ...... imo...

    3) How is this really different from powerscrolls? No notification there.... Granted only a limited group (protectors / hitters) got them & you always know how many, but if someone wanted to cheat it was doable... (bringing 110's etc)

    Anyway.. If I could remember the specifics on how the reward drop is determined etc it would be easier to come up with a good way to handle it etc.
     
  16. Kayhynn

    Kayhynn Certifiable
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    Well how do you handle Melisande? Or any of the other ML bosses where you break party then go from there?

    I think it would work the same way. If you have a good guild that COMMUNICATES....great.

    Otherwise, if you're doing this in fel and there's an alarm saying "so and so got a drop" guess who's gonna get killed?
     
  17. Smokin

    Smokin Guest

    This thread just goes to show why all scrolls and everything else should drop in tram and what not, its a pure example of how a guild is trying to figure out how to make sure it has a monopoly on something.

    Not all people like pvp not all people like guilds, some people just like playing the game with pick up groups and what not. Heck some of the best fun I have had in this game is from just meeting people and doing random hunts of stuff.
     
  18. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I voted no. Reason? It is just totally unnecessary. Naturally in some instances you just don't know who to trust. Solution? Do spawns with people you trust. Simple as that. We don't need to know who did and did not get an item.
     
  19. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    I didn't even bother voting. The poll itself shows the OP doesn't trust his own guildmates.
     
  20. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    Lol he was in essence saying no to a message.. agreeing with you and me and mostly everyone. You either can't read or want to start some board pvp.
     
  21. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    Well I did delete my message...you seem to have taken quite a while to respond after quoting me since I deleted about 2 minutes after posting it. In case you didn't read my deleted post clearly I was responding to the trolling essence in his post. Hence me deleting as opposed to feeding the troll lmao
     
  22. Lady Aalia

    Lady Aalia Atlantic's Finest
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    Having played WOW and some of the other Big games out there, i know how they solve it , with rolls and automated loot distribution .

    Then the Players came up with the crap of DKP (dragon kill points).

    TBH i think the roll system works well for normal group hunts with people you dont know.
    Having said that , i absolutly hated the Drama and BS that was going on in our large Raid guild and i know went on in Many of the large Guild over the distribution of the Boss loot.

    It boiled down to having to be at so many raids to even get an Item then you had the guys that went to every raid , but where afk half the time , but still got more points , then there was favortism...then the endles debate that the DPS tank should get the items before the other Tank with more Points just because he is the main tank and whine whine whine....

    It all ended in Guilds that now cannot be joined unless you fill out application bigger then a Top secret clearance aplication the FBI investigates.

    I like the system you do most damage you get items, means unless you cheat with illigal programs you have to acctually be there and use tactics to get what you want.

    Plus the hype is only going to last for the first month ...then it will be the same as a normal scroll spawn/ harrower/peerless boss
     
  23. jack flash uk

    jack flash uk Crazed Zealot
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    how about this

    to hide the fact that someone has an artifact from murderer and thieves

    why not have a message gump appear like a doom/ToT drop, the valor,artifact dropped in your pack message

    but it tell the WHOLE guild who it dropped too

    that we, everyone knows in the guild only???
     
  24. Traveller

    Traveller Guest

    As other people said, and you didn't reply to it: SNOOPER SNOOPER SNOOPER. You said you dedicate some chars to protection. Dedicate one to police the guild. Hell, with joat you don't even have to dedicate skillpoints to it... Just tell your guild mates: "this char is dedicated to check who got what, so don't worry if you get message of snooping from him". That alone should keep most of the untrustable people on their toes (even though I would use a dedicated stealther to the job).
     
  25. Tomas_Bryce

    Tomas_Bryce Rares Collector Extraordinaire | Rares Fest Host
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    As people have already mentioned, there are already means to try to find out who got what. Having a little system put into place is silly and can have negative impact.

    Also, if you cannot trust people in your guild to a certain degree it means that you guys are too large. Risk vs. reward of large vs. small group. It is perfectly acceptable to get screwed if your guild decides to recruit someone they cannot fully trust for the benefits that come with having more members to back you up.
     
  26. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    Just do it the lame way. Tell everyone at the spawn to defend when the champ spawns and have your most trustworthy 2-3 kill the champ. If anyone else attacks it then you deal with them. This way you only have 2-3 people to police. Large guilds are a pain when you can't trust everyone.

    BTW I voted no as well. The thieves don't need a homing beacon and the raiders don't need to know who to kill first.
     
  27. Heartseeker

    Heartseeker Guest

    No, dumbest idea ever.

    JC c'mon, you usually have better ideas than this.
     
  28. So far you haven't come up with a convincing argument as to why this SHOULD be done. If you have guild members who think only of themselves, then get new guild members. I am in a large guild alliance and it has never been an issue. If someone gets lucky, we congratulate that person, tease him or her a bit, but don't hold grudges.
     
  29. Why should it? Every other reward apart from veteran rewards is decided by the RNG.

    If someone gets something, good for them, you should be pleased your group got it. You want to paint a target on one of your own group so the enemy knows who to kill/steal from?

    Saying it leads to corruption is bs, theres nothing corrupt about someone getting a reward drop in their pack (if thats how it happens) if they've put the work in to get rights. It's nobody elses buisness who gets what. Feeling the need to announce it just annoys the people that didn't get anything.
     
  30. Der Rock

    Der Rock Guest


    yes, that´s right, i remember the beginning of Doom, i got almost every 1-3 day´s an arty, sometimes 3 a day, evertime i sayd it.
    it ends with no resurrection or healing most times :)
    so i stoped to say anything if i got something. best way for all :)
     
  31. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    System notification on artifact drops AND powerscroll drops. Just to make things fair. even the protector scrolls should be announced. For all that guilds Ive been in, even tho people all roll for the scrolls but somehow the frequent protectors have the best scrolls magically appear on their vendors. It's not a trust issue. If a protector can simply say "all 110s" and walk away with a 120 magery or eval chances are they are gonna do it. This will be a better system so no one will be "ninjaing" ****. It's one of the few systems I actually liked from the game "WoW". Basically all main drops are displayed and everyone is notified.
     
  32. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    *sighs*

    I did it for a month, (not all day mind you and not ever day, but close enough) and got nothing :(
     
  33. Blesh

    Blesh Sage
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    QFT
     
  34. It Lives

    It Lives Lore Master
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    You become a target period.

    Why then spawn at all when you can just camp the exit or most likely exit route?
    *just camp the pink colored toons*

    Maybe ask the devs for a capture the flag mini game.
     
  35. Chaosy

    Chaosy Guest

    No.

    I'd be happy for whoever got an item, and I'm sure they would be happy to announce it to me or perhaps even give/sell it to me if I needed it more than they did. If you can't feel the same for your guildmates, then it is either a personal or guild issue that does not apply to many others.
     
  36. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    I like the idea of hearing a sound if an artifact drops just to somewhat satisfy everyone's curiosity. However, like almost everyone else, I agree that it doesn't make a lot of sense to paint a target on the back of the person who received the artifact.

    That being said, JC do you or your guild mates have any further thoughts on this "special effect" that you mentioned might be placed on the artifact receiver? Who would be able to discern the effect--guildmates, alliance mates, faction mates, characters in the same party, and/or anyone close enough to see the character? How long would the effect last and would it be limited by facet/location? Could the special effect be negated by using stealth?

    What would the effect look like--hue change, big arrows pointing at the character, a halo around the character's head, a post-it note on the character's back, a special title or symbol on the character's paperdoll, a special title or symbol you can only see by mousing over the character, etc.
     
  37. JC the Builder

    JC the Builder Crazed Zealot
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    I am not even the person who wanted this done. My idea was to let whoever got the artifact keep it. So don't pin this on me. I just do not see any reason why this shouldn't be done as it will help groups of players, especially people who are playing together for the first time, be able to know who got the item. If you see someone get the item and then break the promise on how it was going to be distributed, then you can decide to never hunt with that person again. As it stands, there is no way to know who got the reward or if one dropped in the first place.

    People are focusing too much on the trust issue and not considering the other factors. I probably should have taken more time to explain it better.

    Some of these items are going to be as rare as Crimson Cinctures, even rarer for Harrower ones. People are going to jack them and not tell anyone. This is not going to be a big issue for our guild, but it can be for others who don't vet their members as much as we do.
     
  38. mr.blackmage

    mr.blackmage Guest

    what most people aren't realizing, but will usually not admit, is that if there's temptation involved, and they are able to get away with it, most people will at one time or another. We have police; not to catch a crook everytime a crime is committed, but rather to act as a deterrent to crime. JC is saying the same thing. It couldn't be detrimental at all, so why oppose it?
     
  39. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    For one your guild has been doing champ Spawns for ages and had a way of dealing out 120s, use the same system.

    If you do NOT trust your guildies or others in your guild dont trust others then those need to be removed. Again your guild has been around long enough to know how to deal with this.

    What you are actually asking for if you want some kind of ID as to who gets what is a way for anyone to target that char, or a way for a thief to just wait for the cue and then go after that one char and not work of it.

    Your idea is VERY poorly thought out weather or not it was yours you brought it here.

    Your guild knows exactly how to deal out goodies from spawns.
     
  40. Help how? It doesn't help anything. They don't need to know who got what.

    Thats the price you pay for being in a guild that favours quantity over quality. Again there is absoloutely no reason that anyone else needs to know what dropped.

    Why not just decide that the distribution method will be the same as it is for everything else. Then you effectively don't need to worry about it.

    Thats largely because thats the only issue you've brought up then said it didn't apply to you.

    People duped the real ones do you not think their going to dupe the replicas? Nothing is rare in this game and hasn't been for a long time & least of all on Atlantic.

    You say theres no reason not to do it, theres no reason to do it.
     
  41. HD2300

    HD2300 Certifiable
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    As WarUltima said WoW is the market leader and they have this feature. A 30 second delayed announcement in the subserver or alliance would be a better system for both champs and peerless.
     
  42. Lord Kynd

    Lord Kynd Guest

    and then you have to worry about someone telling someone else not in the guild who got what, say thru IcQ, yahoo,AIM,ventrillo,teamspeak,SKype, etc..
     
  43. Lord Kynd

    Lord Kynd Guest

    thank god this game is not WoW and doesn't need to be like WoW, now go play WoW if you like that game so much.
     
  44. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Please no trolling. I said one of the very few things I actually liked about WoW. I guess you are the blue protector and wants to be able to continue hording all the 120s you can get. But oh well people are greedy, human nature right ^^ which is about the only reason people are against a change to make things "fair" and "honest". If you or your friends are so honest and always tell people what they actually get and let everyone roll why are you so scared/against that the system will repeat the "truth" you just told all of your guildies.

    Yea this is better system for everyone but hurts the dishonest protectors hense the argument.

    I really cant blame you tho, who wouldnt want to get that 120 magery/eval/archery for free while your friends did most of the work while you were just standing there invised, right? :loser:

    Peace out.
     
  45. Harb

    Harb Guest

    I don't know JC, I did vote "no," but do understand your poistion and am not "strongly opposed" to such an idea if a similar "queuing" were enacted in all situations where "special" or "unique" drops occur. Read that Doom, PSs, ML "boss" drops, crimsons, etc. If this is a unique "queing," I guess I'd be more strongly opposed. The reason I'm not so "warm and fuzzy" about the idea is that it fuels growth toward large, unpersonalized guilds. We maintain a small guild where everybody actually knows everybody, so there are no "game secrets." Said unity is one of the few advantages smaller guilds manitain!
     
  46. phantus

    phantus Stratics Legend
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    Loot distribution has always been an uphill battle in UO. From the days where you had people magic arrow something 1 time and get full loot rights to DOOM where the same person got artis all the time while the majority got frustrated. The champ spawn system worked because there were 12 rewards and were given to multiple people. Even if you didn't get a 20 you got the feeling that you got something.

    JC has a valid request but people who have played UO(and a good deal that do not) do nothing but ***** and whine whenever something that might just be a good idea is presented that just might be from another game regardless of the positive impact that change might bring. A system where a message is given out in a party chat to whoever got the reward is not out of the question and is not a bad idea. In cases where more than one party are involved is a problem with the party system and not the proposed idea.

    The problem of who got the reward is soon going to be nothing in comparison to the droves of people who come to the boards complaining they are not getting the artis. This new system(as much as I love the idea) is going to create the same animosity that DOOM did when it was introduced. This system is lacking in the same department. Who got the reward would be a non-issue if you built up points like you do in DOOM so that everyone who participated would get the rewards. As it is this system will **** off more people that DOOM ever did and there will be AoE caster character nerfs to high heaven coming.
     
  47. Spree

    Spree Babbling Loonie
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    x2 When doing champ spawns guildies put up their 120 scrolls to roll on them why would this be any different.
     
  48. Demonous

    Demonous Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
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    been playing 8 years, never been in a guild where i could trust everyone and the few that i did trust, my trust was very slight with them, i dont join guilds to trust people just join them to have people to help me fight

    it would be dumb if a signal went out as to who go the replica and ill give an example why... if your guild is doing despise, baracoon is redlined and a guild is 2 seconds away from pushing onto the island and killing your guild, champ dies, a guy gets a replica and an arrow points to him, everyone in the raiding guild would target that person

    and i really hate guilds that do spawns with like 10-20 people and either roll for the item or give to who needs it, i prefer 2 man champ spawns and u keep what u get
     
  49. HD2300

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    Any message is a good idea. Even just a message (like when a monster talks) above the corpse when it dies, if everyone doesnt like guild/alliance/party/subserver broadcasts.

    And if the same person who kills the most spawn always gets it LOL.
     
  50. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    This is a group activity, it should be up to the group how the reward is distributed.

    I've seen this theory to MASSIVELY disasterous results in other games.