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Should tormented minotaurs be removed from the game?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Demonous, Jun 20, 2010.

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Should tormented minotaurs be removed from the game?

  1. Yes

    11 vote(s)
    13.6%
  2. No

    70 vote(s)
    86.4%
  1. Demonous

    Demonous Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
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    This is the most overpowered creature in UO by far, it kills you instantly just for being on the same screen as it, even if you aren't fighting it, you can have well over 100 hp and still die instantly, it makes no sense and it is extremely annoying.
     
  2. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    Not a single monster has ever 1 hit killed me. and if you only have a little over 100 hp, you deserve to die.
     
  3. Aristillus

    Aristillus Guest

    Why remove something from the game just because it is challenging?
     
  4. Requiem_baja

    Requiem_baja Visitor

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    Ya any PvM tank char should have at least 140 hits.
     
  5. Taylor

    Taylor Former Stratics CEO (2011-2014)
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    Keep it. This is the last challenging champ in the game.
     
  6. Dol'Gorath

    Dol'Gorath Grand Inquisitor
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    Why remove a monster that is rarely seen in UO unless you do EM events or the minotaur champ spawn?

    Heaven forbid theres actually creatures in UO that serve as some kind of challenge!
     
  7. Martyna Zmuir

    Martyna Zmuir Crazed Zealot

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    The Tormented Minotaur's AoE effect is about a screen and a half, and its strength directly proportional to how many players are attacking it.

    These were used during the Shadowlord invasion of Luna last summer and killed every player (including ones with extreme HP) on the screen with a single hit, then proceeded to rez kill them because their greater dragons weren't quite dead yet.

    This happened repeatedly.

    It was both hilarious and annoying. :popcorn:

    Difficult mobs are a good thing in any game.

    The only thing I'd be in favor of is a cool down timer on peerless special attacks. Having the slasher freeze you and pelt you with rocks doesn't need to happen every 15 seconds (seen it happen... had it happen pretty much repeatedly, one after the other with an EM spawned paragon slasher), that just gets annoying and makes the fight more about having enough potions or bandaids - not strategy and teamwork like it should be.
     
  8. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    This. :thumbup1:

    But if you don't like it, don't fight it, avoid it. No need to remove something just because you don't like it.
     
  9. deraiky

    deraiky Guest

    My suggestion is adding even more, even harder creatures..!
     
  10. IanJames

    IanJames Certifiable
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    waaaaah it's too hard :sad3:
     
  11. jbfortune

    jbfortune Slightly Crazed
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    I agree with the OP. We need to remove him, he's too hard. I want to go a step further though.

    My crafter can't survive in fel, so we need to remove all pvpers.
     
  12. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    And it's not even that challenging...
     
  13. Farsight

    Farsight Crazed Zealot
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    I definitely wouldn't remove it.

    I would, however, give it a reward to make it worth doing.
     
  14. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    You guys are confused by what it means to be a challenge and what it means to be gimp. A screen and a half insta-kill is not a challenge. A challenge refers to better AI, for example, a Changeling, or multiple forms of attack, such as a Servant from the Fairy Dragon mini-spawn. Tormented minotaurs can insta-kill you if you are the only person on screen, which isn't really a challenge. That's like holding a football and telling a crippled kid to go long, it just ain't right.

    Keep them in the game, but give players something to wear, at least, to half or lower the area special. Maybe a special talisman or something. And for reference, some EM's absolutely love to use them for some reason, haha.
     
  15. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    Good grief the Hall has gotten absolutely hilarious. From the ridiculous requests that are being made, to the even sillier responses from those that play 23/7. And then of course you've got those posters that, when asked "What time is it?", they proceed to tell you how to build a watch. (and you know who you are).
     
  16. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Talisman of Tormented Minotaur Protection. Up to 60%
     
  17. weins201

    weins201 Certifiable
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    Poll anwers question

    Leave it as is perhaprs even TOUGHEN up ALOT of te other MOBS to make them actualy challanging??
     
  18. Demonous

    Demonous Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
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    Re: Poll anwers question

    once again u don't understand the concept of a challenge, read other posts before responding, a monster hitting extremely hard is just fine it can do different attacks thats cool too, any special thats fine as well, but when you die just for being on the same screen as the monster, not even being in war mode that is just stupid, it should have to touch you to damage you, not just be within like 30 tiles of you to insta kill you
     
  19. Demonous

    Demonous Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
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    yeah i highly doubt that, and 125 hp isn't slightly over 100
     
  20. Demonous

    Demonous Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
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    probably so, but a lot of people have chars they use for both pvp/pvm so 140 isnt likely
     
  21. Demonous

    Demonous Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
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    the champ area is fine i dont mind that, but when EMs spawn multiple of them and u die about 15 times in 3 minutes when you aren't even attacking the thing just doesn't make sense
     
  22. Demonous

    Demonous Rares Fest Host | Ches Jul 2010
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    and i want to reply to you with something on my mind but then i would receive an infraction
     
  23. Alvinho

    Alvinho Great Lakes Forever!
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    Dont banksit? actually play a game instead of looking at it?
     
  24. I alway thought it hit WAY too hard. But I think it should have a different effect. A stomp the STUNS everyone within sight then a bull rush charge to the top attacker. Even a double strike that Could drop you but has to land both hits to do so. There is a CHANCE to survive.
     
  25. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Talisman killer/proto just increase or reduce melee, I thought?

    lol you've obviously never had to fight multiple minotaurs at once
     
  26. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    I don't they should be removed... retweaked to remain a challenge WITHOUT lame insta-kills, sure, but not removed.

    Challenge to me is NOT being insta-killed with >100 HP, and 70s in all resists, especially from an area effect.

    Challenge to me is going up a creature, being able to whittle it down, but getting it to go (and stay) under the 40% mark being VERY tough (case in point, the Putrid Undead Garg outside ToK during night time spawns... I may not have been optimally equipped for it, but I could get it down to the 40% range, but it did not seem I could get any further without it healing, putting a damage over time effect on me, wiping out Enemy of One, summoning help, etc. I ended up losing quite a bit of stuff I had on me, and quite a bit of insurance gold before I finally had to get away from it before it made me too annoyed to play well). Looking back, THAT was a challenge. Had it simply pulled off a "bam you're dead" effect every time I got near it, it wouldn't seem like a challenge, it would just be cheap.

    Insta-kill /= Challenge.
     
  27. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    I'm actually not sure, pretty sure it applies to spells, but no clue about special moves.
    Something to test out, but don't really feel like killing minotaurs for 2 hours :(
    (especially since there's no visual progress for the spawn)

    Instant kills are... actually quite boring and frustrating. Where's the fun if you have 0% chance? At least Sudiva takes a couple hits to kill you.

    This is also why Paragon Ancient Wyrms don't kill people in 1 shot with a firebreath. The devs put a firebreath damage cap because it was pretty lame to get 1-shot killed.
     
  28. Ever heard of sarcasm :lol:
     
  29. cdavbar

    cdavbar Lore Master
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    OMG I have a hard time soloing something DEVs please nerf there abilities or remove them completely!!!!

    Really? It is FUN to have SOMETHING that cannot be solo'd and REQUIRES the guilds and communities to work to gether to get it done.

    And yes if you have just over 100hp you should deserve to eat dirt. I have 140 before using pots/petels/bless etc etc any warrior knows that one YOU must have health built up, and two, either have a lot of mana regen items and mana leech with high dex or a lot of int with a lot of SSI and dex increase items.

    Each has there own mixture of items and such to acheive this.

    But no....THe need more creatures hard as he** to kill so more people work togeher.

    I VOTE for a tormented minotaur invasion of luna!!!!
     
  30. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    Something can be unable to be soloed without resorting to 100+ HP insta-kills Options are available from healing scripts, "add" scripts, damage reduction, and so forth.
     
  31. cdavbar

    cdavbar Lore Master
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    Scripts?!?! we dont mention those here! If you need to use those then you shouldnt be playing in the first place.
     
  32. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    Just a question. How many hits should a monster be able to hit what character template before it is condidered "too powerful"?

    My weaver/tamer can get 1 hit killed by a GD firebreath. I guess this is too powerful?

    Slasher of the veils one hit killed my mystic thief. Should he go as well?

    Tormented Minotaur one hit killed my archer. Gone!

    But none of these 1 hit kills my Pally. hmmmm. Perhaps none of these are actually overpowered, I was just using the wrong template (or had the right template in teh wrong place at the wrong time).



    Oh, and Nerf Luna. Luna vendors 1 shot kill my bank account. :)
     
  33. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    Scripts?!?! we dont mention those here! If you need to use those then you shouldnt be playing in the first place.

    By "scripts", I'm talking about the monster AI... either you're being dense or you knew that and were just trolling.
     
  34. Dermott of LS

    Dermott of LS UOEC Modder
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    ...

    How much should a creature be able to do?

    Well, that's pretty tough, but 100+ HP at a distance THROUGH all 70s resists is PROBABLY too damn much. Same at melee range through all 70s resists, 120 Parry AND max DCI.

    Obviously, a mule character with 80 or less HP SHOULD be wasted by a higher end creature... a fully decked out character? Not so much... at least if they want to allow anything OTHER than pet classes to be able to tank in the game.
     
  35. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    Well, seeing as i rememebr us clearing out Luna several times of tormented minotaurs, i would have to say that they are not overpowered, just require a group of people working in coordination. And yes, that includes some tamers in the mix.

    If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the fire.
     
  36. Beleg Megil

    Beleg Megil Guest

    I voted no. Maybe if UO was a solo FPS, I'd want it gone because I can't solo it. But since UO is an MMORPG and there are more than one template to choose from, I say keep it and only fight it with a team. :D
     
  37. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Well that's just it. It wipes out the team.
    It tends to wipe out everything on screen, and even some things off the screen. In one hit.
     
  38. Beleg Megil

    Beleg Megil Guest

    I'll concede that if a balanced 10 GOOD player team (2 pally archers,2 mages, 2 mage-tamers, 1 bard, 2 bushido/pally dexers, and maybe one person just to rez/heal, all of whom know their roles) can't take it down, maybe it needs a little tweaking.

    Getting 10 people to show up seems reasonable still for any shard. I'll try it on Cats this week.

    I still don't think anything should be removed completely. I fully support having more creatures, not just at champ spawns, that can't be solo'd. The point of this game is to play with others, afterall.

    Now, the Tormented Mins are supposed to be hard, but from what I gather, its strength is supposed to be scaled to the capability of the attacking force. Maybe its AI should be coded to recognize Greaters at a lower varriable of that equation? Maybe they miscalculated? EMs have popped them out on some shard events and apparently the players *eventually* took them down. Unless said EMs just de-spawned them, I dunno.
     
  39. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Neither of these situations are possible if you are at max suit resists with max hp, unless your hp is really, really low.
     
  40. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    Didn't say I was at amx suit or max hp. Just like someone with a max suit and 140 hp will not be 1 hit killed by a tormented minotaur.

    So what is your logic? We gauge power only by what the very strongest template can handle? If so, then the tormented minotaur is not overpowered. Glad to see you agree with me.
     
  41. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    Then change your tactics. Prepare for the wipout of front lines with secondary lines and positions.
     
  42. RawHeadRex

    RawHeadRex Slightly Crazed
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    paragon slasher ? :lol:
    the stygian dragon kills with one hit, that one hit just happens to be earthquake+melee/fire attack. Air itself seems to aggro the tormented minotaurs.
     
  43. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    Yeah, that was funny. 1st stygian dragon I did:


    CHARGE!!!!!

    OOooOO

    *wtf*

    guild chat: uhhhhh, wheres the altar?

    :) :) :) ahhhh good times.
     
  44. Madrid

    Madrid Slightly Crazed
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    This thread is laughable and personifies the ridiculousness you get to see only first hand here at stratics. It's now a common occurence that every other day or so we get an outlandish thread like this.

    "Should Tormented Minotaurs be removed from the game?"

    Not no. Hell no! If anything we need more monsters and challenges of this type like Slasher, Meraktus and the Tormented Minotaurs.

    Players want to be able to dump an EV/Colussus and stand back 10 tiles watching on the sidelines and then collect their payday. Sorry that tactic shouldn't work on all monsters that tactic had it's era.

    I've seen players try it against Tormented Minotaurs only to get crushed by the ground & pound area attack.

    I remember when they were unleashed in Luna...

    It was great to see the Tormented Minotaurs wreaking Havoc and props to whatever Dev came up with that one.

    The Labyrinth is one of my favorite places to venture (second only to the Twisted Weald) because of all of all the unique monsters and the air of danger that things can go crazy down there at any minute.

    I have had my head handed to me many times by tormented Minotaurs and Meraktus. After learning from my mistakes I can now solo the Tormented Minotaurs and Meraktus. And I have two statues to prove it.:thumbup1:

    Do I still die ...you betcha. I also bring the right tools for the job: a Bovine Slayer, a Tormented Minotaur Protection Talisman and a Meraktus Protection Talisman.

    There are tactics involved with each spawn and Champion that are unique and distinct for that spawn/champion. You have to learn what works and what doesn't work through trial and error.

    One of the best recent memories I have from UO was about a year ago when myself and a guild I was friendly started working the Labyrinth Spawn. We ended up killing Meraktus and there was one Tormented Minotaur left over.

    Now that things had settled down and area was back under control guild of 5 ALL started unloading and ganging up on the last Tormented Minotuar. At the exact moment they killed the Tormented Minotaur with his last breath he unleashed his ground and pound and dropped 5 players. He took all 5 of them with him!:popcorn:

    Luckily I was there to res them. I knew what could potentially happen so I stayed way off to the other side because I had been on the receiving end of that same attack many times. When I see people ganging up or joining in against a Tormented Minotaur I run for the hills cause I know all hell is going to break loose.

    It was hilarious. Imagine 5 people attacking one monsters thinking all is fine and a split second later all 5 are all looking at each other in monochrome wondering what the hell happened..

    I laughed my ass off for a good 10 minutes. I'm laughing just thinking about it again now.:)

    Great time!
     
  45. RawHeadRex

    RawHeadRex Slightly Crazed
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  46. Harlequin

    Harlequin Babbling Loonie
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    The first thing you ask for is for it to be removed?

    Insta kill sucks, but whatever happened to the option to tweak its special attack or to balance it?

    Some alternatives:

    The Shadow fiend things during an older halloween had a similar attack that's scaled to the number of players near it. Damage is limited to only adjacent attackers. This seems like a good way to prevent it from wiping out everything on screen.

    Blackrock explosion that does damage according to how near players are from the epicenter is also a good model to use.

    And as others have said, adding special loot to the mob would be welcomed too.
     
  47. Beleg Megil

    Beleg Megil Guest

    There does seem to be a disturbing trend of posts that pretty much boil down to "Please make the game easier for me!" More players are cropping up that seem to not want to work for anything or develop skills, earn gold for equipment, etc. Or they want to be able to do everything by themselves, like a one player first person shooter.

    I blame the "games" on Facebook. :D
     
  48. Cogniac

    Cogniac Grand Inquisitor
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    RAS Syndrome
     
  49. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    By max HP, I meant the maximum of what you have on character, not the capped maximum. Hence the really, really low part.

    What I'm saying is if your other characters, the characters I assume aren't your main character (since you survive better on your chiv dexxer from what I gather), do not have full 70s suits and at least 100 hp, then its unfair to say you were one-hit killed. A greater dragon has no one attack that does 140 damage, let alone 100, let alone 90. And neither does a Slasher, although getting white screened by him can definitely get you killed in a few hits hehe.

    Meanwhile, Minotaurs can do well over 100 damage with a 1.5 screen area effect, perhaps even 140 if Mart's formula is correct. I'm not sure on the maximum amount of damage they can do but I know it's over 120 HP.
     
  50. Shelleybean

    Shelleybean Certifiable
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    Tormented minotaurs are my least favorite monster to fight. I simply avoid fighting them. There are plenty of ways to make monsters challenging without having them insta kill everyone around. I don't understand the rationale behind them.