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Should we get rid of the 3 second special move mana penalty?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Good_Ole_Lefty, Mar 21, 2008.

  1. Early on in AOS (prior to publish 25) MrTact implemented the 3 second special move penalty which doubles the mana cost of a second special move within 3 seconds of the first. This was called a quick fix to curb down the uncapped special moves at the time.

    Following this, the mana leech property was changed and reduced the effect greatly.

    More so down the line with the latest PvP Publish the mana regen property was changed also greatly reducing it to a tribble with those without Med and or focus which by the way is hard to fit on most warrior templates.

    We all know mana runs out fast on warriors do to mechanics, but is it fair? I hear people brag about being able to get off 4 armor ignores which is a lot for a warrior, while I can combo for days on my mage.

    I'd like to get everyones opinion. Should it be removed, reduced, increased?
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ...

    I'd personally rather be rid of Mage Weapons than ditch the mana penalty for fast special moves, but that's just me.
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    ...

    I'd personally rather be rid of Mage Weapons than ditch the mana penalty for fast special moves, but that's just me.

    [/ QUOTE ]


    I know that is an apple , but lets talk about this orange instead
     
  4. I dunno but I know a LOT of warriors that have at least 80-90 mana as well as over 115 hps and 150 dex, so yeah.

    edit: I also remember the days where I didn't get hit by ANYTHING other than armour ignores. I am talking 25+ in a row. I really don't want to go back to that. Instead, I think that there should just be a cooldown for individual specials. Say 5 seconds for AI, 6 seconds for poison (but reducing cure chances on potions), etc.
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ...

    Connection: Mage Weapons give the Mage who is more likely to have Mana Regen effects the ability to combo special moves vs the melee character who likely does not have regens available.
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Moot point. You are not able to use the specials on a mage weapon, even if you have tactics, unless you have the appropriate weapon skill.
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ...

    Fair enough, point being that I would rather see things slow down damagewise than speed up, so instead of removing the penalty, I've rather see other combo creations slowed down.
     
  8. <blockquote><hr>

    Med/Focus is hard to fit on PvP dexxer templates. / Mana runs out fast on dexxers.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I don't agree with any of that. In fact I see it as quite the opposite, it's fairly easy to build a med dexxer.

    I don't think the re use in 3s thing should be changed but some specials probably do need their mana cost adjusting (some up some down). Though with PvP being fairly balanced atm (class wise) I'd rather see nothing happen with it at all.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The penalty hardly slows down warriors as it is. Getting hit with Armor Ignore every second will eventually kill you.
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    What I'd like to see is the exploit that give you a free 2nd special move after you make the first one. No mana and immediate as I understand it. Then there is the mount ethy while on the run with no delay bug. Those 2 things could be fixed sooner methinks.
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Its fine as it is now!
     
  12. <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>

    Med/Focus is hard to fit on PvP dexxer templates. / Mana runs out fast on dexxers.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I don't agree with any of that. In fact I see it as quite the opposite, it's fairly easy to build a med dexxer.

    I don't think the re use in 3s thing should be changed but some specials probably do need their mana cost adjusting (some up some down). Though with PvP being fairly balanced atm (class wise) I'd rather see nothing happen with it at all.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    med dexer with chiv doesnt need healing... 4/6 casting for instant healing/curing and with 40%lmc and high mana + mana regen with high med + high SSI and items that add dex/stam and int/mana... they never run out of mana, swing at full speed and all they do is spam specials/holy light aka real talent behind the wheel...

    I honestly cant stand how little skill (skill equals spell timing and intelligently put together effective spell combinations) UO pvp has become since AoS...

    with the right gear, you really can do anything in this game without having any talent what-so-ever behind the keyboard.

    How about we fix that problem? Or do we all need to continue to suffer because people don't feel like practicing and honing their skills when they PvP... just ebay and your good to go.
     
  13. reduce the FCR to 4 for all casting skills, reduce fc for necro to 0, chiv to 2, and have dots stack on the same tick (additional ticks for things like strangle of course), and have dot damage give a 50% chance to interrupt instead of the current 100%.
    Also make all spells like magery in the sense that they can be "overcasted" (no more holding down the key until it works).

    Mmm... I can only dream, hey?
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I would love to see something done after all any dexxer using any kindof magic like bushido or chiv must now burn tons of mana and as mentioned with nerfed mana regen and such you pretty much choose am I going to use more spells or more specials before running out of mana.

    I still think that there needs to be a penalty to specials of some sort to prevent to many from happening to fast but the current method is awful when specials cost so much mana even with max LMC on.
     
  15. Before the somewhat recent changes they made to MR gear, I had an elf PVP-intended archer with no med or focus.

    After their changes, his mana was ruined and I was pretty disgusted. Tried adding focus in addition to his existing mana gear and it wasn't near good enough. I found out that about the reduced mana cost on weapon specials deal, and changed to human so that I could easier utilize it, and I ended up putting 80 med on him and putting him in all medable gear. Took him out of his jackal's collar and tooled him out of the Helm of Insight (which is in itself a neat mana piece, but nonmedable so, not useful to him any more). By a stroke of luck, the hunter's headdress was medable.

    He used to be a bushido archer but the bushido's history, now. The med on his template is non-negotiable, whereas the bushido was. The way they made the lesser hiryu be disobedient and therefore dangerously-unreliable combat partners helped push Bushido out the door that much faster.

    I'm not the only person who's jacked up the mana on their warriors similarly.

    The fact that an increased number of warriors chose to take up mage gear and mage-intended skills while turning down the stuff that was designed with them in mind is something to consider. It could be interpreted to mean that mana is tighter than might be ideal.You would think that warrior gear should, as a consequence of its characteristics, be embraced by warriors, but in these cases it's not happening.

    If this is the way they like it, maybe they should consider making the jackals collar medable! I'd love to give that piece a try again but with it not medable, it's no good to me.

    I bought my jackals for 20 million, and sold it for 6! I can always go get another one for 6 though, so no biggie I guess.
     
  16. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ...

    You would think that warrior gear should, as a consequence of its characteristics, be embraced by warriors, but in these cases it's not happening.

    That's due to two things:

    1. There are NO pure warrior characters in UO. Every Warrior based character has a "spell casting" skill be it Magery, Chiv, Bushido, or something else. (Roleplayed, self-restricted character exceptions aside)

    2. As it stands right now, even with the tweak to Smithing Runics, there is STILL no reason to choose the stereotypical "warrior" armor (metal, particularly plate or scale) over the "mage" armor of leather, and even less so next Publish when they "fix" runic mods on Leather.

    They've made mana a necessity for warrior-based characters (which is not necessarily a bad thing), but can we realistically say that they've made Dex/Stamina as much of a necessity for mage/non-melee/archery templates?

    So basically, the Devs have made it so that ANY method of reasonably cranking up your DPI output REQUIRES the expendiature of Mana, and on top of that, Leather armor is inherently superior to plate with NO tradeoffs, thus you see warrior characters running around in mage gear (which if UO were a class/raid type of game would drive certain player segments through the roof with "OMG! That's not warrior gear!" rants (those who have ever read boards for certain other games know these drama-filled threads).
     
  17. Special moves aren't special if you can spam them.

    The 3 second timer is necessary to ensure that. It may need to be even longer...
     
  18. Dexxers can have quite a sufficient amount of mana as it is. No change needed.
     
  19. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    It's bad enough that they changed random special trigger to player togger with 100% chance of success. And with no med/focus 40lmc 10mr suit my human archer with 90 mana can shoot out 35dmg+lighting+velocity armor ignore once every 1.5 second. And to be honest with two guildies helping (one takes my AI one heals) I can chain seven(7) armor ignore at my max swinging rate before I go out of mana, or well over 20 moving shot (I lost count)
     
  20. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

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    I know most of this discussion is oriented on the PvP effects, but in PvM, my Paladin/Treasure hunter (who keeps both cart &amp; LP on him at all times) has a Longsword undead slayer that he can (due to its slower speed - only got 100 Dex) Armor Ignore the two Undead Doom room types (creepers and knights) with every swing, thanks to mana leech in the low 50s. This on a character with Mana regen 3, and no focus or med other than JOAT.