1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Greetings Guest!!

    In order to combat SPAM on the forums, all users are required to have a minimum of 2 posts before they can submit links in any post or thread.

    Dismiss Notice

Shouldn't raptors have pack instinct?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Uvtha, Aug 16, 2009.

  1. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,511
    Likes Received:
    2,906
    Has Jurassic Park taught us nothing? :dunce:
     
  2. Sweeney

    Sweeney Guest

    And to think I was going to say "watch too much Jurassic Park?"
     
  3. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    No need for Jurassic Park to know Raptors were hunting in packs.
     
  4. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,511
    Likes Received:
    2,906
    As it is, wolf spiders are a much better SA pair far as I can tell. Heck probably 2 of those beasts who's name I can't remember that there are the 3 types of, 2 of the 2 slot ones would be better than raptors.

    Course 2 bake's trump them all handily.
     
  5. Jolt

    Jolt Adventurer
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2007
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    0
    More of these 2 slotters need to start coming with pack instinct, otherwise 99% of the people will just choose g.dragons time and time again.
     
  6. Derrick83

    Derrick83 Guest

    Your all right.. pets arent strong enough as it is.. they need to make a pet called a "Iwin" and it takes 4 control slots and has a 99% chance of instant casting "Bezerk" which instant kills every creature on the screen.

    Will this make you happy?

    /sarcasm

    Pets are already way to strong and make PvE stupid easy. Combined with peace and discord... this makes really tough creatures laughable at best. Why with whats out there now do you need something stronger than a GDragon?? Its going to get to the point where what they give you will just kill anything in 1 hit... then youll say "man this game is no challenge.. make harder mobs" and then they will make stuff harder... you wont be able to peace it and it will kill your pets fast.. then youll complain pets arent strong enough.. etc

    Just be happy you can wear a whole luck suit.. and that NO piece of your armor needs to have any mod whatsoever except luck so you can max your luck you and that you can kill most anything with easy and little to no risk of dieing... ever.. just be happy with that..

    PS I have a tamer too.. but I am content with taking 10 seconds to kill something vs 1 shotting it..
     
  7. calibek

    calibek Journeyman
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2008
    Messages:
    150
    Likes Received:
    0
    OMG THERE ARE RAPTORS IN THE GAME NOW...i think i may cry out of sheer joy...what other tameables are there
     
  8. Crysta

    Crysta Babbling Loonie
    Stratics Veteran Alumni

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    2,418
    Likes Received:
    73
    They used to seem to have a higher chance of all attacking at once when one attacked, if there were several around. Maybe its just because they move so fast.
     
  9. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Yep, brought this up on the closed beta forums... no response.

    Toxic Sliths should be tameable too and given pack instinct, but they're not.
     
  10. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Don't be stupid, he wasn't asking for something better than a GD, he asked for something that could actually be used instead of a GD. Tamers aren't overpowered, GDs are.
     
  11. I had hope to see a Dread war horse spawning location during the beta. So we can assume that this rare animal will not see daylight during the next exp.
     
  12. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,511
    Likes Received:
    2,906
    Agreeing with above poster, don't be stupid. :coco:

    I mean do you even know what animal I'm talking about? If it had pack instinct it would still be a, by most standards, "useless" pet, that would be destroyed in two hits by anything major, including a greater dragon, and would be arguably LESS useful than...every other pack instinct animal.

    Some tamers like to actually play with things that are fun/neat like Raptors rather than over powered things like G-drags.

    Not to mention that honestly the ONLY reason I brought it up was because of the fact that Raptors DID hunt in packs in real life. Conversely wolf spiders (and all other spiders) absolutely do not hunt in packs...ever, yet all tamable spiders have pack instinct. Not saying I want it removed, but if were going to have pack instinct on things, we should at least make sure that the animals that hunt in packs in real life have it...
     
  13. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Reporter Professional Governor Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    Messages:
    18,956
    Likes Received:
    5,439
    I had hoped to find the Dread Warhorse as well..... such a shame.

    Also as I said in another post I too thought the raptor should have pack instinct...

    I'm also baffled as to why I can't tame some nice dread spiders... I have been begging for this for years!

    Ah well I'll have to settle for Wolf spiders...


    Now.... the question still remains... how am I going to tame all these things and try them out? What poor pet has to hit the chopping block now? I've been full up on pets for quite awhile now.... wish I could get more slots... 20 max for tamers and 5 slots for the average Joe I think would be nice.
     
  14. The Fallout

    The Fallout Guest

    The raptors need pack instinct, it seriously doesn't make sense that they don't. Maybe it was an oversight, but hey, that is what beta's are for.
     
  15. Jolt

    Jolt Adventurer
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2007
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's kind of a rude response considering I was agreeing with you.
     
  16. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,511
    Likes Received:
    2,906
    :confused: I was responding to derrek83. I even have him quoted in the post.
     
  17. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,511
    Likes Received:
    2,906
    Yeah, they realllly have to up stable slots. I really don't want to ditch any of my pets, and I've already moved all the pets I keep sentimentally like Necro cow, and my 7 year old pack llama and my giant rat to other accounts, and my stable is still full. And considering I play on siege I don't even have other characters on the account to move them to. It sucks.

    I would really like at very LEAST a pair of nice wolf spiders, but I don't know what I can give up to get them... My bakes? Ruin my trained hell hound pack with the great resists that I hunted for for months? Sigh
     
  18. sablestorm

    sablestorm Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2008
    Messages:
    1,948
    Likes Received:
    317
    Necro Cow?
     
  19. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,511
    Likes Received:
    2,906
    A cow I had follow me around when I was a necro. I just thought it was funny. :p

    I couldn't bear to put him out to pasture as it were..
     
  20. TheGrayGhost

    TheGrayGhost Guest

    Yeah, I can't imagine a reason Raptors don't have pack instincts. I am going to assume it's a bug or they simply forgot to add it for now.


    And i've got one pet ready for the chopping block already :(, gotta make room for a skree and maybe an Iron Beetle.

    Poor Godzuki my repltalon, I got him when they were introduced. He's been an utterly useless pet but I liked him. He was my big dumb dog and i was holding on to him for the day he may learn a new trick. He will be missed. Before I release him I am going to use him as much as I can before SA launches.

    Take a moment of Silence for Godzuki..............................
     
  21. Nh'bdy

    Nh'bdy Guest

    They should be able to open doors.





    Clever girl...
     
  22. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,511
    Likes Received:
    2,906
    :(

    Sad, and really should be unnecessary. More stable slots are years over due.
     
  23. Derrick83

    Derrick83 Guest

    Then whats the point of giving it pact instinct? Their are game stopping bugs and issues that have been around for years... pact instinct on a pet that will never be used anyways seems like a waste of time.

    I see what you all are coming from, but their are SOO many inconsistencies with "real life" and the way thing do or would work(for the parts that are possible in reality).

    Either way the point I am trying to make is if you have the pets because they look cool or you collect/play with the new stuff, then who cares if its pact instinct? Their are 100000 things that this game NEEDS done to keep it working. Ironically, those wont get done but raptors will get their pact instinct as is the way of things.

    Anyways, I was responding to people saying something about more 2 slots getting pact instinct so that people dont use GDragons... i was making the point that GDragons needs to be nerfed because they are WAY OP.... and that other pets do NOT need to come UP to the level of GDragons and dreads... tamers already have it way to good and the stronger the pets get the more they force people to use a tamer..

    As it is people were using GDragons when farming the TOT system the past month.. they could let a GDragons sit and then they can go AFK cause its stong/smart enough to keep itself alive... other pets cant do that.. they definately DONT need to make other pets come up to the GDragon level..
     
  24. TheGrayGhost

    TheGrayGhost Guest


    If they had pact instincts I would likely replace my ostards with Raptors. They wouldn't be as ubber as a GDrag and they wouldn't have the dmg output of my Ostards but they would have better survivability than my Ostards and there would be two. This would open up 3 stable slots for me, which would be a blessing at this point lol. Means I would get to keep Godzuki!!!!!!!!!

    Edited to Add: My Gdrag rarely see's use, he collects dust mostly. I don't like them myself. To big, to slow, and it's a Ubber tank and ubber DD type of thing which never should be. A pet should either be more Tank focused, DD focused, Specialized, or Utility, never Ubber in more than one aspect. GDrags could be a tank DD if it lets say had huge fire and Phys resist as long as it was severly lacking in the rest of the resists, then it becomes specialized in combating fire and phys dmg creatures and nothing else. Raptors would make for good utility pets if they had pact instincts. Not a great tank and not the greatest DD but ok in both making them good in many situations.
     
  25. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    Fail. Pack Instinct is just one value to change in the raptor's data. It takes 5 minutes to change it with one hand, the other holding a cup of tea, and with newspaper covering the keyboard. About that hard to change.
     
  26. Lore Master

    Lore Master Guest

    Would be nice if they had pack instinct since SA is still in beta perhaps how ever so unlikely the devs will change them to have pack instincts.
     
  27. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,402
    Likes Received:
    0
    With one exception, one must consider the potential imbalance of a Pack of Raptors.

    In my opinion, if they had Pack Instinct then they would be the Greater Dragon version of the Frenzied Ostards.

    And Derrick, just my opinion, but the Raptor is going to be a big hit with tamers. No not specificaly the Greater Dragons vs everything Tamers ... but all the rest of them.

    If the closed Beta people have fully trained these pets (not just the Raptors), then their input would be .... helpful.

    Otherwise if it is just us Late Comers, then in my opinion, a lot of things are being said about these new pets that are probably at best based on their RAW/Untrained Stats and Skills. Not the least of which DEX/STAMINA will make a difference.

    For instance, the Skree when tamed have Fighting skills in the 20's. Except Spell Resistance that was at 80.n!

    In my opinion, that version of a pet is NOT something one should be making future decisions on.

    I initially wondered why a Skree was a 4 slot pet. I am beginning to see why and .... honestly am beginning to think we were lucky that it was only a 4 slot.
     
  28. TheGrayGhost

    TheGrayGhost Guest

    Meh not really there 2 slotters so they only get +25% dmg. They won't match the dmg of the Frenzies by a long shot, but they can last a bit longer. So slower kills but longer lasting. Makes them more of a trade off rather than a huge upgrade. That is of course if they get pact instincts lol.
     
  29. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,402
    Likes Received:
    0
    I understand your point but I tend to look at things overall. I suspect that the two with what 3 times the hit points and what 2 times the dex (I am on a limb with that one :) ) and the 3 x Strength that these things when fully trained will out damage the venerable Frenzied Pack, if they were a pack that is :)

    I don't think we are all that far apart in what we are saying, I may be projecting a Raptor Pack as doing more per hit damage than is realistic.
     
  30. Derrick83

    Derrick83 Guest

    Yeah I know. I am in software design. As such I know that their are huge amounts of code to go through, then testing, then data results etc. I can't even count the number of bugs and unintended game mechanics and badly designed game mechanics that could EASILY be changed in 5 mins to make a whole SYSTEM better, and yet they never even see the light of day.

    This is something unimportant. Its 1 pet out of the tons you have to choose from and that 1 pet is weak. Its like a dexer saying "The cutlass as a weapon sucks.. it could be made better by increasing its base damage by 2 points"

    I am sure this would help the cutlass, however, who cares. Their are tons of other weapons to use, and its a waste of time for devs to make this 1 weapon a little more useful. Same with a couple pets. EVERY pet does not have to be useful.. you can tame birds and rabbits too... you want them to be "usable" too?

    I know you say "its just that they SHOULD be pack hunters ....etc" but I saw a post where people using the new client are logging in with a extra 50+ hps then normal.. thats something that HAS to be addressed.. and their is a list a mile long of stuff like this.. making 1 pet(or even anything with less than 3 control slots) a pack creature is insignificant. You have many pets that are very effective, your OP in the first place compared to any other PvE template AND they have a lot of important issue to fix. Using ANY time on making tamers pets better than they are is insulting.
     
  31. BajaElladan

    BajaElladan Certifiable
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2003
    Messages:
    1,820
    Likes Received:
    3
    A few General Comments,

    Reptalons (which are currently in the game) are NOT Raptors (i.e. velocyraptors) so they obviously need not have pack instinct. I have no idea if raptors are in fact being added.

    So far, from the descriptions and pics I have seen, none of the new tamables planned for SA hold any interest to me. Sadly in fact, nothing I have seen or heard of in SA holds much interest for me, especially its cost considering the number of accounts I currently pay for.

    At $30 bucks a pop, I may add SA to only one account, or I may wait till SA is released as a free download as ML now is.

    If I am left with folks in Baja/Trammel/Ilsh/Malas/Tokuno etc, so be it.

    If all spend all their time in SA, and I am left alone in my lands, well, so be that also.

    Maybe I am finally reaching my UO limits, or maybe the Dev(ils) are finally getting close to changing my UO into a place I will no longer want to be.

    I guess time will tell.

    Hopefully if the Dev(ils) do ruin UO for me, I will still be able to find folks wanting my stuff. I hope I never feel fine tossing it all into trash barrels.

    Elladan of Baja

    p.s. Tamers do need more stable space, regardless of what's coming with SA.
     
  32. TheGrayGhost

    TheGrayGhost Guest

    Keep in mind though, your compairing 5 Frenzies each with a +100% dmg bonus to 2 Raptors each with +25% dmg bonus. I just don't see them outdamaging a pack of Frenzies even with pact instincts. They will last longer and need less healing than frenzies but there not going to be the damaging whirlwind that is 5 frenzies lol.
     
  33. Coppelia

    Coppelia Guest

    I think nobody in this thread said it should be a #1 priority. There are of course more important fixes to be done before. Just that it can be added to the list. That's the kind of fix that's done one day a dev decided to tackle a number of small fixes. Kind of "We fixed the super-bug in faction that would make your character dance naked in front of the enemy and we fixed the giga-exploit of the duplication of castles. Oh BTW passing by we gave raptors their deserved pack instinct."
     
  34. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,402
    Likes Received:
    0
    My problem is I do not know how the STR value figures into the damage equation so I can't really articulate why I believe as I do.

    That it does, is in my opinion a certainty. I just see this way to often with pets.

    I also do not have the stats available to me as I reply in this thread and am going off memory. I concede that memory may be mixing up some of the other pets stats.
     
  35. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
    Reporter Professional Governor Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter Royal Knight

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2000
    Messages:
    18,956
    Likes Received:
    5,439
    I agree there 100% been saying it since the release of ML now it's really gonna get bad with SA.
     
  36. TheGrayGhost

    TheGrayGhost Guest


    Frenzy
    Hp 110 Stam 115 Mana - Str 168 Dex 112 Int 6
    Base Dmg: 11-17
    Does Average of 18-23 to imps (Tried 13) occasionally hit for 6-8 lol, the Frenzy died on me after the 13th one so oO quit there.

    Raptor
    Hp 400 Stam 140 Mana 124 Str 425 Dex 140 Int 124
    Base Dmg: 11-17
    Did on average 20-30 dmg to imps (tried 15 imps) occasionally hit for 13 :(

    Both were fresh tames no skilling up first.

    So
    30 x 25% = 37.5 So say 38. There would be 2 so thats 76 dmg a round on the imp from the Raptors (If they had pact instincts).

    Now for the Frenzies
    23 x 100% = 46 there would be 5 so thats 230 dmg from the Frenzies.

    Both fresh tames. Both seem to have GM level caps on skills so they will be around the same difference there as well.

    230 > 76

    Dex is fairly close to each other it isn't like the STR difference lol.

    And so on and so on and so on.
     
  37. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,402
    Likes Received:
    0
    Good, did you notice the wrestling, tactics, anatomy on both of them vs the mob that was being targeted?

    Or in short, I do not remember if they pulled a Skree on the Raptors and brought them in basically noobified vs the Frenzied being 70%+ skilled up. The Imps I think are 50 to 60 skill wise.

    I agree I would assume the Raptor is going to end up GM'd as a skill cap.

    By the way did you notice any special moves on the raptor? Perhaps a stun etc?
     
  38. TheGrayGhost

    TheGrayGhost Guest

    Skill levls were pretty even on Raptor and Ostard, not much more than 2-4 points off. Both were low in the skills department.

    And sadly no I didn't notice any specials from the Raptor :(, not even a bleed which I was half hoping for then I would have been meh on the pact instint thing.
     
  39. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 24, 2008
    Messages:
    6,511
    Likes Received:
    2,906
    Translation: I hate tamers. Their concerns and desires don't matter to me.

    Gotcha.
     
  40. EnigmaMaitreya

    EnigmaMaitreya Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran

    Joined:
    May 12, 2008
    Messages:
    3,402
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah given your observations, then a big beh from me as well.

    Leading one to wonder what it is they are thinking in introducing the Raptor. I suppose one thing that does come to mind is combo's. Perhaps the bauras(sp) and a Raptor? Me personally, given what your saying would probably opt for a Bake Kitsune and a Baura(sp)
     
  41. slavoie

    slavoie Guest

    All I can say is nothing will ever tear me away from my frenzied pack!

    120 discord
    120 peace
    120 music
    120 taming (85 without jewls)
    120 lore
    120 vet
    30 magery

    5 4x gm frenzied

    Balron dead in 3-4 seconds.

    Swoop, dead in about 12 seconds.

    WW almost instant.
     
  42. SUPRsalad

    SUPRsalad Guest

    please refer to my thread about land/sea creatures.. i feel like we're settling for something here..
     
  43. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
    Moderator Professional Wiki Moderator Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2003
    Messages:
    8,457
    Likes Received:
    582
    I want pack instinct for Gaman....
     
  44. Derrick83

    Derrick83 Guest


    Oh well I see....

    Well bunny rabbits.. I tamed 1 of them... it died in 1 hit... but it hit for 1 damage... i think we need a buff for bunny rabbits because from your "230 > 76" comment I assume you mean that ALL pets should be equal. In other words you think that 5 pets at 1 control slot should always be equal to 1 pet at 5 control slots right?

    I mean otherwise bunny rabbits have no reason to be tamed!


    /sarcasm

    Not every thing that CAN be tamed needs to be a pet that is equal to every other pet. Just because it doesn't do as much dmg as 5 frenzied doesn't mean it needs a dmg buff... because rabbits, birds, cows, great hearts etc... they dont do as much dmg as 5 frenzied either but your not asking for a damage increase for them.
     
  45. Derrick83

    Derrick83 Guest

    Not quite.. I have a tamer.. I use my tamer when I have to PvE. However, I am tried of this game getting easier. I like having some challenge. The game is so easy when using a tamer.. im never in any danger and I can kill almost anything by myself.. as such, their are so many other things that NEED to be addressed in this game that I dont think the Devs using time to fix the damage on a pet that will either A) Make tamers ever stronger by making raptors as or more powerful than a GDragon or B) make the change and they still dont do enough damage and thus people will not use them and the time that was used to alter them was totally wasted.