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Siege and PBDs... an idea.

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by Mers, Feb 8, 2005.

  1. Mers

    Mers Guest

    Thanks for taking the time to talk with us Wilki.
    I like the sounds of this.
    I may be a crafter but sheesh let me keep my tinker tools when I die /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif
    Oh and -edit- I've never had a PBD missed out on that *grumbles* I knew taking a break for RL issues was a bad idea. *kids* But none the less I think we should keep the PBD's albeit one blessed slot per person but it would still allow -people to have something "Blessed for Them"
  2. *kahlan*

    *kahlan* Guest

    make it free.....these ppl that haven't had a pbd this long deserve it. I have pbds on all my chars and i think they should get it for free...they shouldn't be punished for coming after AOS and wanting to be level with everyone on the best shard uo still has :p
  3. jasmin of SP

    jasmin of SP Guest

    any of the above would be nice.
  4. Although any of these would be better than where we are currently, I'd lean towards number 3. I think adding an insurance cost would promote killing new players, rez-killing, and other behaviors that can hurt the shard's population. I have one idea...

    If you move to single slot insurance-type thing, how about you make current pbds stop functioning but allow players to turn theirs in for a cbd (pbd must match their characters name since there are a lot of old deeds floating around). A cbd sells for 2 million on Siege, which is worth about what the people payed for the AOS box set. It seems fair enough to me.

    Thanks for taking the time and hopefully this thread is productive.

    *Edit* On second though, don't do a cbd thing. Crafters have it hard enough as it is, I don't want anything that would take away from one of the few valuable things they can still get.
  5. NightFall

    NightFall Guest

    My only real concern is, I like to have completely useless stuff blessed that has no point in pvp, aka PP Hero items like pants, a blessed bear mask, and/or even my pink dress.

    Would these get changed to be basically just even more useless junk and all blessings for items removed, if such a system was introduced to bring balance of CBD'ed Artifacts like the Hat of the Magi/ Totem for example?
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    1. Allow everyone to insure one item at the 3x production shard cost, with PBDs allowing people to bypass that cost, thus they keep their usefulness.

    3x cost because thats what things cost on Siege... 3x of normal shards (except housing). Also, if you plan on this being an insurance system, as opposed to a blessing system, I assume you would put in the code where the PK collects the insurance money for killing the opponent... so 3x cost would make this amount somewhat worthwhile (I think... I don't even know how much it costs to insure stuff on other shards, actually).

    BTW, I don't suppose you could try selling "remove all blessings from siege" to your bosses first? Yeah, I know... it's a pipedream. *sighs* And I couldnt guarantee you would see a population growth on siege by removing all blessings, as I'm fairly sure I could with the PBD issue resolved this way.
  7. Wilki

    Wilki Guest

    Great feedback, live_rust. That's exactly the kind of criticism I'm looking for.

    I did consider that when I was thinking about this concept, but I put it aside because I was trying to think of ways to minimize the difference between those who have PBDs and those who do not. Though, if people want it to cost more, which I agree does make it more difficult for those who don't have a PBD, that's just as valid of an idea as the three I proposed.

    I'll add that to my first post.
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I think making it so no one benefits from getting insurance would help with the rez killing and what not - insurance like it was when it started, where it didn't go to anyone when the person died (if I'm remembering correctly).
  9. KronosCWS

    KronosCWS Guest

    I think all the choices are better than nothing, but my preference is for number 3. I personally don't think the clamor here is over PBD's in particular rather than one blessing per person. We want a level playing field. PBD's would become collector's items...the new rare of sorts. If you make a PBD give a benefit, you're inviting more whining later on down the road when people start racking up insurance costs.

    The context menu is a great solution to the problem, and it eliminates the ability to lose your blessing ability. We want balance, and choice #3 gives the greatest balance of all. If you give us this, you finally solve the PBD problem and prevent it from appearing once again down the road.
  10. Dismembered

    Dismembered Guest

    I'm sorry but thats just a terrible idea and too relatively close to insurance.

    This is the simplest and most effective way in my opinion to solve this. Allow it to go through the context menu and be able to bless one thing at no charge. Then regarding the remaining PBD's I say you should disable their function and let the owners keep them as some what of a "rare" so to say. Like when things with uo become obselete they just say they will no longer spawn and you can keep them as a rare.

    So why not do the same with the obselete PBD scrolls?
  11. arturo2

    arturo2 Guest

    This is a great idea, but it just seems like another way to avoid just turning on PBD's for all Siege players. I don't mean to throw you under the bus here but since you are putting yourself out here, your ready for some tough questions.

    I don't get why we have to listen to all these ideas when all we want is to just have you devs turn on PBD's. Is there is an issue with the code?

    Just tell us why we can't just have PBD's turned on for all Siege players. We deserve an answer at the least.

    Someone had to say it /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif
  12. I don't think #3 would make PBDs useless, because those with them have already gotten much use out of them, and with #3 in place, they wouldn't lose any ability that the PBD originally gave them. I vote for #3 because I play an orc and I don't use my bankbox so I wouldn't be able to re-insure my one item when I die. Besides, if you make it cost money, there still is a divide between the haves and have-nots (like orcs!).

    Wilki: thanks for your concern.
  13. Achilles.

    Achilles. Guest

    I think this is the right course of action. It's simple and seems more like something the devs would code. My griefing concerns are almost non-existant considering our ability to inflict player justice. Honestly i would like it to be free because i think a 2 year advantage those with PBD's have had is long enough but i will not cause a stink over the issue. I would happily pay 3x the amount (1.8k?) instead of the 100k per death i was paying when i was active a few months back.

    Who knows, perhaps this could also be used as an argument for getting rid of the [blessed] property on 7AE items too... If someone really wants to use them then they could always use their one slot on them. But again, i won't force that opinion because balancing the PBD situation is more important.
  14. Thank you kindly, Wilki, for your presence and suggestions.

    I am all for having the context-menu deal. If I may, here his the problem and a solution to that problem. First, some folks have their PBD blessing an item. If they log into the world, they will be vulnerable - their PBD'd item stealable, or losable upon death. If it is possible, the method I would suggest:

    Obviously, clear the board: Make sure everyone is logged out of the system.
    Second, if it's possible, make everyone logged out in a 'hidden' and 'paralyzed' status, wherever they are. That way, when they log in, they will be invisible and won't accidentally move. Since they'll be hidden, they'll have the time and safety to be able to Context-menu their item-to-be-blessed upon first log-in. That way, no overly ambitious thieves or murderers will be able to take advantage of the crucial initial time of being logged in to the time it takes to safely bless the item that PBD-owners already have.

    But, you have given me hope, Wilki. Thank you for your input.
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest


    I don't get why we have to listen to all these ideas when all we want is to just have you devs turn on PBD's. Is there is an issue with the code?


    Because the way PBDs work now is flawed... it is possible to lose one. I know a guy that smelted his weapon by mistake that had his PBD on it... no more PBD for him. Others lost their's due to disarm bugs, etc. Point being, with a context menu, or even a "I wish to bless this" command that calls up a targeting cursor, its a way to bless things that can't be lost or destroyed.

    Another reason is if you just turn them on for newly created characters, then some people won't be too happy. Like they guy who has his finished template and invested tons of time or gold to accumulate all his 120 skill scrolls and his +25 stat scroll. Mind you, if this was the only option, we would take it... we would rather re-roll our chars for a PBD than to never have the issue resolved at all.
  16. Matsumura SP

    Matsumura SP Guest

    First of all thank you for the post Wilki.

    Any of the 4 options would be fine for me. I would personally like option #3 to allow those who have little to no money or dont use a bank box like the Orcs, its functioning.

    I am not a big fan of the idea that your killer gains insurance money from it, but since it would only be one item the cost to the victim would really be negligable.

    All in all since this would work within the existing game framework I think it is a good idea even if the "I" word is involved *shudders*
  17. *Confused*

    *Confused* Guest

    I would be happy to have any of these options, but #3 (I think the one without the money on death) is my choice.
  18. Wilki

    Wilki Guest


    just have you devs turn on PBD's.


    It's not that simple. PBD's were awarded using the promo system, which we could turn back on for all new players on Siege. However, any existing characters that don't already have them would be left out.

    Plus, it doesn't solve the problem of people losing their PBDs over time.

    I'm curious.. why do you see the 3rd option above as being different from 1 PBD for everyone? The end result is the same: you get to bless one item at no cost.
  19. Barania

    Barania Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Aug 3, 2003
    Likes Received:
    "3. Allow everyone to insure one item for free. This is exactly the same as the context menu PBD, just using an existing system. However, this would make PBDs useless, which is something to consider. "

    I think this, #3, is a great idea that I would fully support. The other options, #'s 1,2,&amp;4, would work but we'd still have differentiation between classes. Even though I have a PBD on one char, I have no problems with it being rendered useless and having a completely level playing field with everyone else even though I guess I paid for it some way or another at some point in time. Thanks - a good and concise poll.

    Jack Nickelson
  20. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I like the number three, honestly. Already AOS makes us farm more than we would like to, having to fuel yet more gold to pvp... I don't see that as a good overall solution. I agree that the PBD was a bonus for buying in, and I bought in to get one... so there *should* be some bonus for PBD holders. Personally, I don't care if there is a consolation gift, but it may make many people feel better for it, except of course the people who lost theirs due to a bug.

    The information of whether someone was elegible for a PBD might be available by looking at a few registration and/or billing dates in the database... So its possible that folks who lost their due to a bug would fall into the "PBD consolation prize group"... just an idea..

    A free clothing bless deed for all PBD holders and a single free insurance for everyone? Seems like a good longterm solution for Siege. PvP was always fun in the beginning of the shard because you could go in there naked or wearing throwaway equipment and you could do alright. You could die twenty times and still have fun. Losing 40k just for dying... thats not fun for people who aren't farming daily. People who want to try out PvP already have a great cost. We don't have no-risk lands to farm in, the vets are mostly rich... so its the new players and part-time players who would suffer from insurance costs per death.

    I want to see more people come to Siege, not the other way around.

    Benefit for PBD holders, yes. Insurance cost, no.

    Thats my argument for number three.
  21. Barania

    Barania Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

    Aug 3, 2003
    Likes Received:
    "Because the way PBDs work now is flawed... it is possible to lose one. I know a guy that smelted his weapon by mistake that had his PBD on it"

    Raises hand...That would be me and it was a sorta nice SC/NP warfork. Oh well.

    Jack Nickelson
  22. I choose #3 AS LONG IF you cannot stack a PBD blessing with a context menu blessing. Either one blessing type or the other so people dont get 2 items blessed.

    Also make sure the context menu option give you the exact same end result as using a PBD, so that the item say "Blessed for *name*".

    We dont want the Insurance Bug here

    ok my real idea is this:

    automatically remove any PBD from any items they might be on them and make the PBDs pretty much collector's items. Then implement the system above. My 2 gold.
  23. Dismembered

    Dismembered Guest

    Apparently no one listened to me post about just making them RARES. But here allow me to spell out your problems with the CBD idea.

    Consider the following, how many people as of now stand with a PBD? Probably half the shard or a lil more. Now think if half the shard had CBD's drop into their bag. What would that do? Eliminate the purpose of the crafter. You cant just dole out 2 million dollar items to everyone who has a PBD. What the hell would that do for the economy.

    Besides those people who have PBD's definitely got their worth out of them anyways. It's not like turning them into a house rare would make that extra like 20 dollars when you bought the game go to waste.
  24. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I like #4, as long as the Dev Team can have insurance code that does not award gold to the victor. While it can be a nice bonus in PvP, in the end it just turns everything into a gank/rezkill fest.
  25. Sephrenia

    Sephrenia Seasoned Veteran
    Stratics Veteran

    Jun 6, 2003
    Likes Received:
    Thank you for the suggestion, Wilki.

    I am for #3, with some compensation perhaps for the current holders of PBDs. I think this would indeed eliminate the problem people have had with losing their PBDs through any number of means, and would level the playing field for all of us, without requiring us to make new characters.

    Is this easily implementable though? I imagine the best solution will be one that is both easy to implement (and debug) and one that also solves the problem.
  26. Guest

    Guest Guest

    This compensation idea is a ticking timebomb threatening to blow up the entire thread and your chances of all agreeing on a solution.

    If you want compensation, how about blessed pink bunny slippers? /php-bin/shared/images/icons/biglaugh2.gif
  27. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The inherent problem here is that the PBD was a promotion, and as such, was intended to give an advantage to those that received it.

    If EA removes the PBD's entirely, they have to contend with those who will complain the promotion they paid for is now useless or nonexistent (and we can tell them we wont all we want, it's still gonna happen)

    So, to contend with this, they have to come up with a solution that still gives PBD owners an advantage (which they paid for, it is their right) yet still retains "balance" on the shard.

    Tricky solutions, at best, but the best we've seen so far, I must admit...
  28. Achilles.

    Achilles. Guest

    They did get an advantage. For two whole years they had it. Did it really say on the side of the AoS box that it would be a permanent one?
  29. Goodah

    Goodah Guest

    I'm leaning towards number 3.

    Any of those other options would work for me just dont call it insurance please /php-bin/shared/images/icons/wink.gif
  30. I'm a bit confused. I thought the promotion for AOS was the hooded shroud?
  31. Wilki

    Wilki Guest

    Oh, trust me, I sat and thought for a while to see if I could come up with some other term to replace "insurance" ;-)

    But, in the end, it's best to be frank, so rather than spinning some weird term that doesn't really fit, I called the duck a duck.

    And thanks everyone for the feedback! I'm going to log off for the night, but I will surely be reading this tomorrow.
  32. Guest

    Guest Guest

    *deleted at request*
  33. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I support #4. I like the idea that PBD's are still worth something.

    But any of these ideas would be quite ok for me and far better than the current state.
  34. Colbourn

    Colbourn Guest

    To be honest I believe we should all be on an equal footing, so option 3.

    Also with insurance, reskilling may become rife and it will actually do some damage to a characters bankbox as opposed to their stress levels.
  35. GonthraX

    GonthraX Guest

    I would just like to add my vote for One "insurance" slot at 3x proddy shard cost and some sort of award to the killer.

    I know queenzen you posted about it being hard for new players who have less then over flowing bank boxes, but think of this. Siege Perilous, a tough place. At farst you have to use what you find. Then mby you find somthing good and you want to use it, so you have to make a little money incase you die. I think it would be ok /php-bin/shared/images/icons/smile.gif

    As far as in insentive to rez kill, anyone who does not currently rez kill for no reason would not take it up because of the insurance rewards alone. Well I suppose I could be wrong about this, but I'd like to think the integrity of the shard is stronger then that :p
  36. Sausage

    Sausage Guest

    anyyyyyyyyyyyyy of the choices as you can see will make us considerablly happier.

    Hell, i'd have been pleased with at least turning the switch back on for new chars. At least new guys would be here, and have a CHANCE. We were hurting more for population than vets were for items.

    Any solution to keep it an EVEN playing field is best.
  37. Ash of Yew

    Ash of Yew Guest

    i think 3

    or like 50 gold for insurance

    just because i didn't log onto a server i had never planned to play EVER shouldn't mean i miss out on something like a pbd
  38. Guest

    Guest Guest


    It's not that simple. PBD's were awarded using the promo system, which we could turn back on for all new players on Siege. However, any existing characters that don't already have them would be left out.

    Plus, it doesn't solve the problem of people losing their PBDs over time.

    I'm curious.. why do you see the 3rd option above as being different from 1 PBD for everyone? The end result is the same: you get to bless one item at no cost.


    This is what is at one of the core problems that is causing the divide between the players and the EA staff.

    TURN ON PBD's!!!
    That won't fix all the problems, but that will fix 80% of them. Granted, it would be better if Siege got 30 hours of dev time to fix the PBD issue, but why is it after begging the devs to turn on PBD's for new characters only which since it's already coded should take you absolutely no time?

    What will turning on PBD's for new players do?

    It will give PBD's to new players.
    It will not replace PBD's accidently lost.
    It may/may not give out PBD's to characters who currently exist but do not have PBD's.

    However, do you realize that most people on siege after spending some time on siege without a PBD actually went out and bought an account with a PBD? At least of the people I know. A PBD is sooooo important, that a person who lost their PBD would actually be willing to delete their character and start all over than play that character with out a PBD (otherwise they would not have bought an account with a PBD and started all over). Yet for some reason the EA Devs still don't think it's a good idea to turn on the code that already exists.

    I guarantee you if you turned on the PBD code a year ago 1/2 of the people who left siege recently would never have done so, because at least they would have had the chance to receive a PBD even if that meant starting over.

    We understand that Siege is the ******* step child of UO, as it took a year for the Devs to allocate 5 minutes to fix the resist issue several months back. While it would be nice to get hours of Dev time to truely fix PBD's, right now I'd be happy with you just turning on the damn PBD code. After all, it's taken 6 months for you to post a poll asking what we want.....
  39. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I very much like the idea of #4. I currently do not have a PBD; not because I joined after AoS, but because i created my character on siege after AoS. Still, I think that PBD owners deserve to keep some sort of an advantage, even if it be a monetary advantage.

    One thing Siege does not have much of is a gold sink, and with loot changes being bumped up, we really could use one. By using option #4, we effectively make (did someone say 1.8k?) vanish everytime someone without a PBD dies.
    If possible write code that would not reward the killer, or would give a reduced gold reward for killing someone with insurance. Thus increasing the effect of the gold sink.

    In response to it being too hard for new characters to start up and have to risk 1.8k to insure an item: you've got to be kidding right? Isn't the prospect of BEING able to insure an item once you have enough money in the bank good enough? If someone cannot finish one day of siege perilous (any noob can farm 10k of insurance money in one day) without using insurance, they probably don't really belong here.

    To recap, option #4:
    1. gives everyone a "blessing" without totally shafting the loyal PBD customers.
    2. provides an opportunity for a much needed gold sink, even if it's not a big one.
    3. Is way way better than our current situation.

    I'm really amazed at all the people choosing #3. All you #4's speak up so Wilki can hear you!! This is Siege, not atlantic. why should insurance be free on siege? it's not free on production shards.

    Oh, and here's an idea to ponder (but it'll never happen): Artys and Martys are more expensive to insure?
  40. Dismembered

    Dismembered Guest

    Why do even if it is only 3 people keep posting on liking insurance. That is a baffling idea. Siege is different because insurance doesnt exist. I cant believe some of you would even entertain the thought of having prize money after someone dies.

    If you enjoy that there are tonnes of PR shards that will accomodate that feature for you any day of the week. In the time being I think its a no brainer for no.3 and just turn the PBD's into a rare collectable.

    Consider it this way. The pheonix armor is blessed but does anyone wear it? No, because its a collectible and would be stupid to wear in pvp or pvm. Anyways I dont see why having a PBD turn into a collectible would be so bad? It is a scroll so it would look dandy for house decorations and just think of the value you could sell something obselete for a year down the road. AOS made a killing off stuff like that. It sure as hell wouldnt hurt to turn it into a collectible.
  41. Phish Phan

    Phish Phan Guest

    3. Allow everyone to insure one item for free. This is exactly the same as the context menu PBD, just using an existing system. However, this would make PBDs useless, which is something to consider.

    This would be my choice, since there is no "PBD" to actually be lost.

    Hope this goes well.
  42. Bodacious

    Bodacious Guest

    If you had a pbd and lost it,you shouldn't be made to pay 3x the full production cost because of some bug. Why punish folks who bought their AOS copy and fell victim to a bug? Number 3 because its Fair and it brings Balance to the shard.
  43. Jhaelyrr

    Jhaelyrr Guest

    Number 3 would work best. I'd toss in more comments on why, but Malaki has already covered that well.

    If it does go through as costing gold to insure one item, then please do not have it give the killer of the person gold for doing so. That's just asking for mass ganks and rez killing all over, even for a small amount of gold.
  44. Feyre

    Feyre Guest

    I vote #1
    This is a great solution, keep those with a pbd having something for getting the promotion, and lets everyone compete equally, just dont give anyone gold upon death.

    This is a solution offered by Wilki lets all agree on something, get it in and complain later over the small stuff :p
  45. Mangar(cws)

    Mangar(cws) Guest

    Any of the above will work for me.
    Im in personal favor of option #3 though.
    But really... any of them.

  46. jarek56

    jarek56 Guest

    no.3 , why should a PK get X ammount of gold from the already slain victim when he has already dry looted them.I have a PBD,bunny ears and orange pants and couldnt care less if they were turned into something useless.
    You will get people complain about 1*blessed*item but , Tram -----------&gt;

    This wood bring more to the shard and Vets back,
    thx Wilki for your time.
  47. Guest

    Guest Guest


    3. Allow everyone to insure one item for free. This is exactly the same as the context menu PBD, just using an existing system. However, this would make PBDs useless, which is something to consider.


    ...gets my vote
  48. MeMn0cH

    MeMn0cH Guest

    3. Allow everyone to insure one item for free. This is exactly the same as the context menu PBD, just using an existing system. However, this would make PBDs useless, which is something to consider.

    Yea do that one, this would benefit the newer players more as they dont have cash to pay for the insurance... and isnt that why we are brainstorming these ideas? For the newer people without PBD's? Well.. We choose the other ideas, which is kinda unevenly built for the vets so they dont have to pay and the others do, wouldnt that be unfair still? Instead of hearing about no PBD's we'd be hearing about being broke from being rez killed..

    Plus, if you do put in a cost for the blessing (Aka. the dirty word of insurance) would the $$ of the insurance or the insurance renewal be earned by the person who kills you? (Like on a production shard)

    If so THEN! this will basically promote rez killing, cause hey 1-2k onna cheap kill would be a easy way to get money.. No? Not good for making friends of course.

    Anyway Im glad to see someone posting about the things we have been wanting for? (Counts months) yea... Appreciated
  49. wavace

    wavace Guest

    Personally i like item 3 ...with a bit of a change ...instead of making the PBDs that we now have worthless , allow us to turn them in for some type of reward... maybe a blessed mini arti, a rare item just for those of us who turn them in, maybe a free 7AE gift would keep everyone happy who would have a problem with option #3... just throwing out ideas though

    P.S. And thanks Wilki for posting on our boards, I was beginning to think no one from EA read these things

  50. I vote for the one pbd for all or to bless one item for each player.
    I have myself pbd on an other shard..but started on this shard because of more fun. I play a tank..so will loose all times my weap..sometimes I really wishes I would have a pbd like the older players, to insure my Weap.