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Siege perilous item imbalance

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Saul_Siege, Mar 7, 2013.

  1. Saul_Siege

    Saul_Siege Adventurer

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    (( the original title for this thread was a recommendation to think again if moving to siege perilous. Take that Ito consideration when reading responses)

    Power creep. Item disparity. Haves vs have nots.
    Supposedly the idea behind siege was to have a shard closer to the original vision of UO.

    In this day and age, a production server is likely incredibly staggering to a new player. The learning curve is steep, and if you're interested in pvp you're looking at a large investment to get on a competitive level. You aren't terribly restricted in terms of items that can get, as insurance pretty much assures you'll never lose an item once you get it.

    On siege perilous however, it has all of the above, except you don't keep your uber suit if you die and get dry looted by your opponent. You lose it all.

    Now you think that's nice and dandy, cause you can do the same.

    Except on siege, there are prepatch items that are so broken and OP, it's amazing anyone moves to this shard.

    Like this
    image.jpg

    This kind of item runs over 20 million on siege, or over 100 million production.

    On siege, this item means not having to imbue a suit a certain way, and a parry Mage can siege bless a shield as their personal bless.

    Other MMo handle power creep by increasing power of items over time and making earlier sets easier to get. We see this in uo with the new loot system.

    On siege it's a blessing and a curse.

    I can't imagine a new Mage coming to our shard and wantin to be competitive. They'll be goin up against players with blessed gear that cannot be acquired without an extreme amount of wealth. And until then they are practically handing over their gear to players yet can't hope to compete with.

    This is not healthy for siege.

    After AoS, OSI nerfed the AoS blessed gear like the leggings and samurai helm, quivers etc, because of the massive disparity it gave at the time in having blessed gear on siege with decent stats (for the time). I had taken a break and came back to find 4 items of mine no longer blessed.

    I'd like to see that same treatment given to all this event gear that is blessed. This drastically undermines the intent of siege, and for me is a huge discouraging thing from even wanting to remain in the game past my first month back.

    For this reason and out of principle, I recommend staying away from siege unless you enjoy giving your hard earned efforts to people with items you have little chance of acquiring, ever. Stay on production where it's actually a lot more balanced than the top heavy environment of siege.

    Seriously.
     
    #1 Saul_Siege, Mar 7, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2013
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  2. flappy6

    flappy6 Sage
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    if your worried someone has that book ,you dont need to pvp
     
  3. Saul_Siege

    Saul_Siege Adventurer

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    That's a really productive response. Oh wait, no it's not.

    "It you don't like something and are passionate about making it better, run away from it."
     
  4. chise2

    chise2 Sage
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    I do agree these items ideally should not exist on Siege. At least not blessed. However I do not see it as a reason people should stay away from Siege. You can compete without having one.
     
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  5. claudia-fjp

    claudia-fjp Lore Master
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    No, the idea was to have a hardcore PVP server, and it was that for many years, but not so much anymore.

    As for items and suits dropping look at it this way, on production servers all of that Legendary and Greater Artifact Shame loot that is cursed gets unraveled but on SP it's all usable.

    Also you don't have to give people reasons to stay away from Siege, considering the population and how often they beg for players, people already know.
     
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  6. chise2

    chise2 Sage
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    Population is actually up on Siege now :) But otherwise I agree about the Shame loot.
     
  7. Saul_Siege

    Saul_Siege Adventurer

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    Hey Claudia I searched for where it's explicitly stated sp was meant as a hardcore pvp server. Site your source? Otherwise you're wrong.

    Per uo guide:
    Siege Perilous is a special ruleset shard that launched on July 15, 1999. The idea behind the shard was to create a more "difficult" and challenging shard for UO veterans. The main developer and creater behind Siege was Runesabre.
     
    #7 Saul_Siege, Mar 7, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2013
  8. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, I think that carrying exclusive items on Siege can be an advantage but also a terrible loss if by chance one gets blocked into an ambush, dies, and looses that one "special" item.... No matter how special one's own gear might be, fighting against multiple opponents can be overwhelming even when using very special items...

    So, on average, I would imagine that most players would tend not to carry exceptional (i.e. very expensive...) items on Siege thus making PvP more possible to be competitively matched since the items worn, on average, are more those of the common kind usage.

    The real problem with playing Siege, IMHO, is another, and it is not being possible to have a House of one's own if a player already has one on another production Shard with that same account.......
     
  9. Saul_Siege

    Saul_Siege Adventurer

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    That's a fairly close assessment. It's not a problem until you have items like the one I linked.
     
  10. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Siege is not for every one.
    Siege is not merely a PvP shard. It was never meant to be either. 'nuff said.
     
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  11. Saul_Siege

    Saul_Siege Adventurer

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    And the devs have a history Of nerfing blessed items on siege that give a serious advantage.

    I'm pretty sure exclusive items like the one I linked completely undermine the intent of the server. The devs obviously agreed before with the multiple item nerfs over the years.

    This is not only offensive in that way, it's by far the worst offender. And it's ignored.

    Kelmo of course siege isn't for everyone. That's not a valid excuse. You remember the outcry before over blessed gear, and those items were nearly junk in there day.

    Why the double standards now? This has nothing to do with who siege is for and everything to do with history, past intent, and creating a conducive enironment.

    If the devs are unable or unwilling to keep that design, then I cannot encourage anyone to try siege if they are interested in pve or pvp. They'll just be climbing and climbing and climbing, all the while the players on top stay right where they are. Like it or not UO is an item game, and it handles power creep on regular servers jut fine. It's like they forget about siege, so I recommend other players do the same.
     
    #11 Saul_Siege, Mar 7, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2013
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  12. chise2

    chise2 Sage
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    Actually they said they are planning on letting us place a house on a prodo shard and Siege. We just donlt know when lol.
     
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  13. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    *smiles* Ya should have been around for the personal bless deed battle... That was two years in the fixing.
     
  14. Love them Redheads

    Love them Redheads Adventurer

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    Yep Siege has suffered these types of problems forever...and if it isn't specific items, it's certain templates/skills that "risk" alot less than others when they die or require way less to be effective (stealth/tamers come to mind).

    Siege would be a much better shard if they just wiped all the item properties, except for resists, damage, etc. Basically any post AoS property. But then I'm sure there would be a whole new set of problems that would surface.
     
    #14 Love them Redheads, Mar 7, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2013
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  15. chise2

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    Yeah to be honest I think that was a bigger deal then some people having some blessed spellbook with nicemods :/ I came to Siege when not everyone had that and it did kinda suck, but I still dealed with it.
     
  16. chise2

    chise2 Sage
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    Yeah that would be great, but I do agree that would probably just create a new set of problems lol.
     
  17. claudia-fjp

    claudia-fjp Lore Master
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    Well, firstly I was there in the beginning and most would agree with me. I believe what was said to me when it opened was something along the lines of "Hey they opened a new PVP server so we're moving there."

    Our now defunct unofficial server forums were BATTLE vortex, hardcore part being higher prices, no recall, 1 character etc, PVP part being the whole server is the Felucca PVP ruleset. I believe in gaming industry a server where nonconsentual PVP can happen almost anywhere at anytime is the very definition of a PVP server. At least I know it is in WoW and SWTOR and many others.


    And if you want to quote Wiki's...
    From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_Perilous_(disambiguation)
    Siege Perilous is also:
     
  18. Saul_Siege

    Saul_Siege Adventurer

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    I really don't want to tell people to not play siege. I love the concept, the idea, the community too.

    It's a principle for me. And unlike RL where my bills, rent, and circumstance may cause me to new to bend my stance, my gaming and or hobbies certainly don't. So I get vocal, I want to make it better. How anyone can argue against a fairer playing field is beyond my ability to comprehend.
     
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  19. Saul_Siege

    Saul_Siege Adventurer

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    I quoted uo guide. And according to your logic all of UO prior to trammel was a "pvp game" and we know that isn't true or how it was designed.

    The same remains true of siege perilous, whether you use anecdotal experience over direct information from the official source.

    Wiki is not official, not would I use it to cite as a source, since anyone can edit it. Check out what happens when college students, news stations, and master debaters try to use it singularly.
     
  20. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    *smiles* Then fight yer fight... Please do not ask folks to not play Siege because of a silly book. Siege is not all about PvP. Most Siege players are not PvPers and these books have no effect on their game play.

    Lil, side note... I spent millions on these spell books. I swore to destroy them. I did destroy a lot. They were just too easy to get. There are a lot of them squirreled away.
     
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  21. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    UO was designed as a PwP game...
     
  22. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I agree with the basic content of your message, that the few property holding spells books that are blessed should not be, I disagree with your post title, suggesting people not play siege because of it.

    Because the spellbooks, are not causing problems, even if they are against the spirit and balance of the shard. Nothing like the 7th anniversary armors or some of the other more disastrous situations used to be. I don't think I recall anyone complaining these spellbooks causing an imbalance. That said... they SHOULD be unblessed.

    You also sort of indirectly suggest to the uninformed reader that this is a larger problem than the blessed spellbooks. To the best of my knowledge the ONLY improperly blessed items are the event spellbooks, SOME Tomes of lost knowledge and SOME Tomes of Enlightenment.
     
    #22 Uvtha, Mar 7, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2013
  23. Saul_Siege

    Saul_Siege Adventurer

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    Actually I want to see uo and siege grow so I'm gonna do this in a more mature way. Asking for a lock.
     
  24. claudia-fjp

    claudia-fjp Lore Master
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    UO GUIDE IS A FREAKIN WIKI!

    Welcome to UOGuide
    The Ultima Online encyclopedia that anyone can edit.

    Jesus... If you want to quote OFFICIAL EA PAGES then you get:


    Siege Perilous and Mugen Shards
    The vast majority of the shards available in Ultima Online follow the same rules set (see section five). Two notable differences are Siege Perilous and Mugen. These shards follow a Felucca-only rules set on all of their facets. These shards are designed for veteran players who desire a more open style of play that includes non-consensual player vs. player interaction (combat and stealing), the removal of item insurance, and an altered skill gaining system. It is recommended that you become familiar with these concepts before deciding to play on either of these shards.
     
  25. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    What is yer point claudia?
     
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  26. Saul_Siege

    Saul_Siege Adventurer

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    Hey I see your side. Didn't even notice uo guide was a wiki lol. Mm this crow is delish:

    Sorry for this thread. I took a rough day of realization of oppression, corruption, lies, and deceit from RL and projected it into a beef I had in uo.

    Sorry everyone.

    Side note..'kelmo you spent $$ to destroy these? Respect level maxed.
     
    #26 Saul_Siege, Mar 7, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2013
  27. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    I really believe the imbalance is minimal, even with Kelmo's affort to destroy them, they don't seem very rare. Sure it allow mages to use an extra blessed item and they should no be blessed.
    I believe the hardest for NEW SP players are, that they can't affort running in maxed out suits and if new to PvP too, it can be expensive learning money as dying and get looted hurts if they try to run nice gear.

    The most important thing to learn, never run around with something, you can't afford to lose and self insurance is a good thing. Always have at least one suit in your bank or house as backup. This way, dying and get looted don't feels so hard as if you have to use time after you die to shop for new gear or worse, make money to new gear before you can PvP again.

    Also first thing to learn on Siege is how to make money as NPC vendors won't buy anything.

    About imbalance, it's not like you can get the cap of this mods without this book, The SCI is cappet at 15% anyway, The DCI can be from imbued jewelry, Heart of the Lion / Violet Courage - 15% is not very expensive 50-80k, Ancient Samurai Helm - 15%, they too are not very expensive. FCR and LMC can be found on crafted spellbooks.

    About your old blessed 7th Anniversary items, you can turn them in and get a fuld soulstone from each of them, so nothing to cry about here.

    I had not really heard anyone old Siege player cry, that it make imbalance in PvP, special not after we got imbuing.
     
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  28. flappy6

    flappy6 Sage
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    you destroyed items in the game on purpose? just so people could not get them? maybe if you would have put them on a vendor someone would still be playing your shard lol
     
  29. flappy6

    flappy6 Sage
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    sounds like something a 5-year old would do
     
  30. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
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    That book is no more imbalancing than a factioneer PK decked out in arties and running monster ignore acting all l337 when they kill ya while your busy killing something else.

    I am no pvp`r and I have that book,quite a few pvm`rs I know have it. With shame/cov/wrong loot you can EASILY cap everything along with resists and not even have to worry about a book OR a taly.

    Much ado about nothing IMO.
     
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  31. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
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    Spoken like someone who washed out of Siege. A little butt hurt are we?

    Just FYI.... he`s not the one who sounds like a 5 year old..... but please... carry on :gee:
     
  32. FrejaSP

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    Kelmo tryed to remove them from Siege, as blessed items can make imbalance and some sure did in the past.
    Now there seem to be alot of them, and I dont think they are a big problem, only problem will be if they unbless them and make someone lose 5, 10 or even 20 mill. Some will be mad.
     
  33. Tyrath

    Tyrath Babbling Loonie
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    Siege has some issues that do make it discouraging for new folks to get up and going and other issues that make it easy to get up and going. The PvP aspect is kind of in the middle its just a part of siege and it does stand to reason that the ancients will have the greatest concentration of wealth and elite items. What I find more annoying is so many new people that prodo vets that have such a poor understanding and knowledge of basic game mechanics. I see why insurance is so popular on prodo :)
     
  34. Lorddog

    Lorddog Crazed Zealot
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    it only effects the 5 players that use spells and no weapons to pvp. sheez - anyhow I am in agreement to unbless them.
     
  35. Mook Chessy

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    I played siege for 4 years...the problem was not books...they were easy to get

    The problem was that everyone ran stealth...Kelmo called it adapting, I think it killed an already wounded shard.

    Funny thing is the reason everyone ran stealth was ninja tamer with a Blessed pet!

    Keep fighting the good fight Kelmo and Sprago!


    Should the population become playable I will return!
     
  36. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    What I believe "killed" the shard was so called PvPers that only PKed sure wins. It is easy to PK a crafter, RPer etc... If you want to continue this conversation make a new thread on Siege. Your premise is not topical.
     
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  37. Gospel

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    I love how a mod changed the thread title. Little bit of Siege bias among us it seems.
     
  38. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Siege P was never designed for being the PVP capitol of UO. It was created for those players who wizzed through normal shards like butter and needed a bit more harder senerio.
    PvP was not even in the books when Siege opened its doors... We know this as we helped open the shard... Good vs Evil was the game... RP and yes even Red murder guilds came in and ravaged the shards overall apeal but the changes you and others have had the Dev do in the past have hurt many and your at it again. Siege P is a totaly different world then the production shards and has its own community of players .... I for one play there and find our people good and friendly... oh your not gunna escape the reds...

    Sir or Madam which ever the case may be.... Do not presume to dictate players away from one shard or another as you wil find that puts you in a bad light here.
    It's fine you found Siege not to your likeing ...so be it, thank you for trying the shard, and thats it ... do not tell others to forgo it for your sake.
    Former Dev have listend to players like you and changed how Seige P worked ... now we are just getting off the ground again and you state this.... shame on you.
     
    #38 Lady Storm, Mar 12, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2013
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  39. Bo Bo

    Bo Bo Lore Keeper
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    Actually his comment was very topical and one that Bo agrees with 100%. He simply stated that another blessed item (Pets) have chased more people off than these stupid books. It is in fact your comment that is not topical at all but youre the mod and can do no wrong. You should be non bias. \
    Talk about haves and have nots lets talk dread mares those are also blessed and go for a ton of goldies on siege. Who wants a stupid little book when you can get a blessed killer.
     
  40. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    What leads you to believe a Mod changed the thread title?
     
  41. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Probably the biggest play imbalance are the suited up all combat skills PKers and the low end LRC suited mostly crafting skills crafters they favor going after.

    At least on Siege they don't dance over your often unarmed body bragging about how they pwned you because of how tough, manly and L33t they are. Our PKers have a real touch of class.
     
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  42. wanderer1origin

    wanderer1origin Lore Master
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    popps, while i have played seige a extra house would be nice!! i think all shards should have that option. my guess is you have never set foot onto seige and probably wont! setting up playing on another shard is hard but doable, testing if you like from a bank makes no difference whether seige or atlantic!!! i have scrolled up characters on seige and other shards. seige is acutally easier to build upon cause comunity makes asking for help, aquiring things is easier than most shards!!
     
  43. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    BoBo you have no bloody idea what your talking of.

    We have had Everything the normal shards got till a few years ago when a group who no longer reside on Siege P griped to the Dev to fix the shard to a PVP world and cause they were heavy pushing the pvp they agreed... *I for one was not thrilled at this* The Dev in turn turned many things to down right worthless junk... newbie items were converted to use #'s and made many angry .... Blessed things were ...shall we say limited in other words we were screwed .... those who have power items are those who can do that high end math for imbuing and such. Housing has been looked into... and the dev say its on the minds of their whole team....

    PK & Reds run their own shows and mostly pick on crafters as we only get 1 character per account... sooo if your only gunna run a single account on siege.... crafters are your target to get resources..... not that I like looking over my shoulder and keeping my ears open for sounds of hoofs ...

    In my opinion the Dev put their hand in where it was not needed in the past.... and messed up the balance with 1 house/account bs. Not to mention the above said changes they inacted for fly by nighter who came, conquored, and left the game.... Those of us left after their fiasco have tried to make a better place to play.... many reds/pks will return your equipment and just take the mats they can use... some will even rez you.
     
  44. Lyconis

    Lyconis Sage
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    I like Siege a lot.
     
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  45. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Lady Storm
    I'm not sure what you mean. The limit to blessed items was a long wanted changes and well needed. How do you punishe grief PvP'ers if you can't loot their gear and make life a little harder for them. It was not only crafters, who was using blessed item, but also someone who would rejoin the fight right after ressing.
    We now have one Siege bless and sometimes I feel we had been better without that too. I do believe pet bonding is here to stay, as all hate losing their pet but maybe they should be less powerful vs players or have a temp stat loss if dying with an aggressive PvP flag.

    It is not hard to get powerful items now, you can put it together from Shame loot or unraw the shame loot and sell the relic and buy the powerful items from an imbuer. If we had blessing and item insurance, the crafters could not sell any suits, just like we rarely have buyers to weapons.

    There are 20+ safe shard, Siege should not be one of them. The last 2 years had been good for Siege as we now have to make the needed items to a fair price. If the players can affort to replace their items, Siege will grow.

    About crafters getting killed, sure you may die, when hunting for resources but as most crafters are not PvP'ers, they will die, even with powerful items so why not just just a good farming suit. A crafter can easy replace that and still make money.

    I know, adding resist to a suit is a pain, but with next pub it will help, as each piece get +4 resist, that's +24 on a suit, so just mix the right pieces and you will have a suit with 70 resist. I think you may have to mix barded with horned and the right hat to get it balanced but sure better than having to imbue all this resists.

    Also Siege was sure made to be a PvP+ shard. We started without Stat Loss and with red Evil, who could kill anyone for free and still go shop in town. Sure they could only loot if they killed reds, grey, heroes or players who attacked them. I had been on Siege sinse it was born and I can tell, 50% of the shard was red the first years, until we got stupid stuff like the virtuel only working for blue and areal spells not attacking blues.

    About having one house on each shard, that was very bad for Siege as a new Siege player should be lucky just to get a small house and keeps and castles was almost impossible to get.

    If the new public do help the PvP balance and we get that second house with refresh, Siege really will get back to life, it's already on the way. It's many years ago, sinse we last had so many active new players on Siege.

    One thing more, where we in the past mostly got bored normal shards players, who would try Siege before leaving UO, we now get alot old players, who had not played sinse the start of UO and this players comes here to PvP and miss UO 1997 to 1998, before devs started to nerf PvP and ruin the game from half of the players.

    I have always said, the PvP players are out there, UO just need to draw them back and alot of them are cool guys, who don't mind do some evil RP or just share the fun with their victim.

    Will that make the crafters and PvM'ers leave Siege? Not at all as they will feel alive here, where all will need their service and they will be the backbone in the community and the player towns / guilds.
     
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  46. Mook Chessy

    Mook Chessy Certifiable
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    Kelmo

    I call bulls?!'t...just because I hit a nerve due t the fact you have stealth on most of your tunes does not mean you can smack me down as a mod!

    Pets are a much bigger problem on siege, we both know that!

    Help other mods Kelmo is repressing me!

    Give yourself a warning for abuse of power!

    Remember before I left siege I waited a year on a dead shard...I also donated about 25 million gold, hell I gave you 5 mil to buy freesly abyss home!
     
  47. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    I just bought soulstones to stick Tanivar's crafting skills on and replaced them with Hiding & Stealth. If the pkers can't see him, they can't bushwhack him. :p

    Life here on Siege is good playing a forager/crafter team of characters. Craftables are needed on Siege and sell on Siege, unlike on prodo shards. It's the play I've enjoyed since buying UO:Ren back in 2000. :)
     
  48. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    FrejaSP not always
    I remember talking to our dear dev and gms back then on the delights of Siege... early on there was no changes in this as Siege was not to be the killing capitol of UO but a simple shard for those who needed a bit tougher challenge.. You had to get gold on your wits and buy and sell to others who could just kill u for it... and sometimes did! Later complaints by those pvp artists about how they couldnt loot newbie and aos items they coveted off kills was brought forth... I know this as a GM poped up in front of me when a killer/thief called on me for havign a set of items she couldnt steal off me. My dagger and scissors... they were from day one and were of course newbie... She pitched such a fit to him about not being able to steal them and then for not being able to have a set like them and she wanted him to ban me for having them. He politely told her that was an older playr and was gifted with them at that time... and there for they were legal. She was mad..... had a fit and stomped and yelled at me... A few months later I found my dagger and scissors were replaced and all my newbie things & blessed items were now stealable... I wont say she was the cause but her type at that time had a hand in changing Siege and not for the good...
    I play Siege when I want its my little oasis in UO that i can just putter .... and have friends there that are not out to steal me blind ...
    I quit when the guilds from other shards came in and made Siege a killing field .... anything that moved was killed and looted dry.... and worse off you couldnt talk to them as they didnt understand your language... i even let 2 of my houses fall cause i was discussed with the way the Dev was messing around and the way siege was turning.. to this day I only have there my grandfathered homes....
    If you need something and say so in chat I do listen and if i have i am willing to sell or even give it to you... I wont gouge you or kill you in doing so.. that cant be said by all there but hey im me.
     
  49. Mitzlplik_LS

    Mitzlplik_LS Journeyman
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    People talk like its a bad thing to have stealth on a non pvp char. I think that if I read between the lines.... the l337 pvp crowd would rather not have to work at all to find the ones who supply THEIR needs. I love see`ing certain people in gen chat spamming for this and that when earlier they were the ones killing a farmer that would have gladly sold them what they were looking for. This is what indiscriminate killing does. I know I have tons of certain things and I could help people out more.... but I know who I will and won`t help out. It makes me all warm and fuzzy to know some are doing without just because they couldn`t contain their bloodlust and decided to kill a farmer for no good reason. Guess what.... you just got on that guys black list as far as selling wares and resources to you. Yup it is Siege and yup we will die.... totally acceptable. What isn`t acceptable is some fly by night passerby pvp`r thinkin he`s all that and a bag of chips after he kills and dry loots some random miner/farmer decked out in no resist lrc gear.

    Those types are what hurt SP the most in the past and is what will hurt the most in the future.

    I got stealth on all my chars pirty much at all times and with the asshats we got runnin around these days I don`t blame anyone who does the same. The honorable ones are few and far between.

    I`ve seen YOU alot more than you`ve seen me.
     
    Tanivar and kelmo like this.
  50. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Sad isnt it..............

    Siege was more a RP place early on .... oh we had our pks and reds who were stinkers and killed for thrill and all that... but think....... you got a superduper killer and you just made a person who wouldmake you just about anythng you needed and you killed him or her and looted everything... this was fun? to pick on a less able to defend themselves crafter?? We wonder where bullying comes from..... and here we encourage it in a game.... something is out of step there...
    Oh well its just a game right? It dont effect you outside it? think on it... I kinda wonder if some of the game life has rubbed off on some... and vice versa.

    SoulStones did more on siege then any other "gift" and that includes newbie items.... That Red who kicked that crafters tush dont need him... all he does is go home swap out his skills from one list and pop on another set and poof!!! you got crafter red... Who wont need any help and finds being gracious to others a pain in the tush... and seconds later he is back in his RED uniform and out harrassing the world on siege again .............

    I'm sorry to burst the bubble on the old stuff being bad for siege... i find soulstones the worst even though they would help alot of good people. *the bad ones have the right angle in dealing with the good ... kill kill kill.... * Yes this is sarcasim as it points out a flaw in Dev thinking on the Siege P side of actions to strip blessed and other things first given..

    Some things were never meant to be on Siege... and soulstone's bought and vet rewards was one of them... frags were limited so didnt hurt for long ... but the account ones ... give a whole new phrase to being your own devil... in red