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[Selling] Siege Perilous

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by kelmo, Apr 20, 2015.

  1. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    As I drift away from Stratics in general, I will always be a part of this community. *chuckles* Like it or not.

    I see a lot of new folk in game and some few on the forums that I read. I see some getting excited about what is happening and wanting to tell everyone one how awesome Siege is. I was the same way a dozen or so years ago.

    The only way you can sell Siege is to be Siege. No amount of chest thumping, caterwauling or trying to make perfume out of snake oil will convince anyone to give up all they have somewhere else. We are not going to get a significant percentage of any new players anytime soon. I hope that does not burst anyone's bubble.

    Nothing has really changed in the years since I joined this community. You really can not entice people here, you just have to be ready when they come.
     
  2. Silent Singer

    Silent Singer Lore Master

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    Hey man, somewhat related, but....can you explain wtf is going on with Stratics? When I was active in UWF, one of the guys used to work for Stratics and after the change in mgmnt never came out openly against anything but gave off a strong negative vibe. Then the EMs start posting that they are moving away from Stratics. Then several veteran mods became visibly critical. So honestly, what is the bottom line here? Something obviously happened. I'm not asking to open up a ***** fest or anything, I'm just sincerely curious.
     
  3. startle

    startle Siege... Where the fun begins.
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    Asking that will probably get this thread locked, quicker than you can say "Bag of Worms"...
     
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  4. Lore Denin (GL)

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    Well said Kelmo, perhaps the goal to re-populate Siege, isn't about bringing new players to siege but re-engaging the players who are already here. As a community we all have our strengths and weakness, but our uniqueness allows us to reach players other would miss. Together we cast a large net to reach all the differnt playstyles but are at the same time, connect them. Activity begets activity.

    This is not to say bringing in new players should be discouraged as I am actively recruiting for my guild and the shard (my guild standards are really hard to meet due to rp requirements but I am sending recruits not really suited to my guild to other fine homes) but the expectations should be low. I estimate about 1 out of 10 will stay and take the time to build a character and be active here. Many have communities, items, activities on other shards that will distract from training, and adventuring in a much more difficult land. And some will flat out dislike being killed and looted, or not being able to run around on a "super suit".

    I look forward casting more of my rp nets about, snaring people in semi retirement and bringing them back to the living breathing world of siege.

    Lore's Player
     
  5. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    VvV is the big thing that keeps me from wanting to play on Siege these days.
     
  6. Silent Singer

    Silent Singer Lore Master

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    Really curious about this.
     
  7. Tina Small

    Tina Small Stratics Legend
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    Not interested in rehashing the reasons why. Will just point you to this old post from October: https://stratics.com/community/thre...it-hurt-the-wrong-target.322699/#post-2442848 .

    Also, sometime in the last month or maybe even a little longer, the messages about VvV battles now only go to characters actually in VvV. Other characters in the same guild don't see the messages anymore. Not sure when the change happened.
     
  8. Kat

    Kat Crazed Zealot
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    The removal of factions was the final nail in the coffin for me. I log in once in a while, but without factions, I have lost interest.
     
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  9. TheDrAJ

    TheDrAJ Slightly Crazed
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    That is a very well thought out post and I agree with most of it!
     
  10. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    I did not even give VvV a test until a couple weeks ago. I am seeing some battles brewing out there. Herds are learning to be packs... The killing ground is even without vending machine artifacts. Non Combatants become combatants if they become involved. Lots of cool deco. *chuckles*
     
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  11. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    It would be a big help if people didn't have to give up all they have somewhere else to come here. People should be allowed to bring items here with them as with any other shard and just understand their value here is very much less than on a prodo shard. And of course no gold can be transferred to protect Siege's economy.

    Players shouldn't be forced to give up everything they've worked for for a lot of years when they decide to come to the best shard to play. It's probably the biggest reason many come here then leave.
     
  12. Silent Singer

    Silent Singer Lore Master

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    Ok, read old thread. I understand now. Thanks!
     
  13. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    I understand.

    All that stuff is still there... Where ever ya left it.

    We all start the same here. Siege is one of the few places you can really still make a name for yourself.
     
  14. TheDrAJ

    TheDrAJ Slightly Crazed
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    Boy do I disagree - I don't want the shard flooded with stuff that killed the economy of the other shards. Half the charm of Siege is working hard to get those items!

    This will not help Siege.
     
  15. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Think about it, wouldn't faze Siege's economy, it would be worth no more than like items that were always here. Your talking the knee-jerk reaction instead of thinking.


    Much of it you can't work for because it's not available to even get. Holiday items, veteran rewards you've taken on prodo before coming to Siege, etc. Much of such items old time Siege vets got are in use by them or buried away in the closed accounts of Siege vets. This land is starved for items and new comers place houses and pick up on that when they try to decorate those houses.They can't have a good looking house here so they go back to prodo where they can have a good looking house, and Siege loses another new player they might have kept.

    Retract that knee, put both feet on the floor and think. Making it so people can have nicely decorated houses will keep some players here and won't faze Siege's economy, because like with the items Siege old timers have collected, most will be in use making their house look good. Items the new comers sell will sell at Siege prices not prodo prices and not harm the Siege economy a bit. Keep that knee down and think.
     
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  16. TheDrAJ

    TheDrAJ Slightly Crazed
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    No I disagree - play any of the other shards if this is what you need to enjoy the game but don't force changes on this shard that will open the flood gates and make it the same as the other shards. I'd go for insurance before I ever would be comfortable with shard transfers.
     
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  17. Lore Denin (GL)

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    I 100% agreed with you thoughts on the issues VvV presents... add in rp implications that this towns are suppose to have working governments with functioning governors pretty much eliminating the entire rp aspect of the government system on siege.... (then my own personal pet peeve of no actual sides of Vice and Virtue - though on siege I have found a place where guilds are not as generic and good and evil still exists)

    Anyone can look at the near empty VvV forums and see me posting left and right from the start of issues with the system which don't even touch on the aspects you have mentioned. A reason I play Origin is so I can test changes and provide feedback before things hit Prodo. I am now on Siege as well because there are different issues that need to be ironed out here that don't exist on other shards (and a great deal of thanks for helping me get started here :)

    I've always respected your mind and the manner of your testing on feedback and systems, be it treasure maps, factions, or various shades available for a spring reward. I hope you will reconsider VvV not because you will suddenly love it, but because you have such a grasp of things many participating don't and can really help iron out solutions where others don't realize there are problems. This will help bring in players who are put off by the system.

    This isn't a Dev's stink thread, its a UO is super old and complicated thread, and how many Dev's are there and of them, how many of them are working on this, 1?. Even for us "player experts" we'd miss 101 things without the input and feedback from other players.

    VvV will be revisited and updated for expansion, what we can do as responsible players is come together figure out what's working in game and what is not. How some things function great on prodo but not for a Siege ruleset and vice versa.

    Then and the most difficult part, present a coherent feedback post, detailing all the aspects that are problematic and potential solutions. Lets not get bogged down in "this is the one and only solution" but rather here are a few to each problem. People will agree or disagree on any solution to some extent and I feel the Dev's really suffer to incorporate feedback from players because of our own differing views... Lets agree to have differing views on problems, provide alternate solutions and simply let the Dev's figure out what they can and are willing to do.

    As always it would be a pleasure to work with you again,

    -Lore
     
  18. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    ... No wonder Siege ...

    Ah heck, maybe they'll add another Siege ruleset shard so those who want to transfer in can, and bring their stuff with them. Probably be much more popular than Siege and it's vets.
     
  19. Troop_Gil

    Troop_Gil Journeyman

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    My shoes are still purple.
     
  20. RueTor

    RueTor Journeyman
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    "...Selling - Siege Perilous..."

    I bid 50K for Siege Perilous and 5k for the Purple tennis shoes (if washed). When does the bidding end?
     
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  21. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    That's crazy. I'm against item transfers in because it would neuter the risk vs reward aspect of the shard, and consequently devalue the things people have already accomplished here by bypassing the difficulty on an easier shard, but insurance would be against the nature f the shard even more.

    I'd rather than item transfer 100% because at least not EVERYONE would use it.
     
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  22. Arradin

    Arradin Sage
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    Ooookey, i would strongly advice you to chill down and be less aggresive in your tone, especially considering the fact that you are wrong.

    House decoration matters maybe to YOU, but dont make it sound like its what keeping players away.

    The reason *I* am here, is for the economy that is still healthy compared to prodo shards.
     
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  23. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I've said it before and I'll say it again, there is only ONE real reason people don't play here full time: Risk. In any population you are going to have a large group who want security, and a smaller group who want/accept risk. Neither is right or wrong, but they are distinct. Look at any game with a "hardcore" mode. Some players love it, most don't. I personally play siege for the same reason I play D3 hardcore mode. Risk sweetens reward, and makes playing more fun than the standard "grind it till you find it" mode of the regular shards.
    The only way the siege population will rise is if the UO population rises. When the overall population rises, the percent of people playing who accept risk will rise, and siege will get more players.

    No amount of carrots are going to fill the shard. We've seen prodo capitulations, player run ad campaigns (as kelmo mentions) rule changes, on and on, and none of them have an appreciable effect. People wither want risk... or they don't. Period.

    Removing the element of risk is essentially eroding the core philosophy of the siege experience. Allowing people to transfer items over from the much much much easier prodo rulset would absolutely impact that experience. Not only would it only disincentivize trying difficult things on siege, but it would also devalue all similar accomplishments people have made in the past.

    That said, I don't think the impact would be huge. BUT... each little chip we chip away lessens the experience. There WOULD be people who would go to other shards, gather up all the stuff that's hard to do here, and come back and start selling, that WOULD devalue the siege experience. To what extent, I don't know.

    A simpler and more philosophically aligned solution in my opinion would be to simply change drop rates on siege. It wouldn't make accomplishments any easier or tasks any less risky, and would get more of those harder to get items into the economy. People get more deco, pvpers get better gear to RISK when fighting, pks get better loot when pwning newbs, pvm feels more rewarding...
    I have been advocating a "siege drop rate" for ages. If we have to play with all this bleed over code, then give us the tools to do so in a way that fits the design of our shard.

    It's not ideal (ideal would be siege actually having a unique ruleset rather than a cobbled up mess of prodo code), but it's better than getting it on the easy shards and teleporting it over here IMO.
     
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  24. Marisa Kirisame

    Marisa Kirisame Seasoned Veteran

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    Ya all don't get each of ye talkin. Tanny there talks 'bout event rares, old rares, server birth rares etc. which ya can't get anymore other than transferrin' from da prodo, not 'bout da arties ya can still farm.
    'Nsurance is parta thin' that killed da prodo economy: gold hadta become cheaper 'cause it's for 'nsurance. Transferrin' cheap gold 'n stuff ya can still farm to Siege would kill the economy, transferrin' them rares ya can no longer farm wouldn't 'cause it automatically equivalents to the current Siege economy. Some newbs 'n vets just gotta become richa by havin' nice rare stuff, no gold 'n junk ya can still get on Siege.
     
  25. Max Blackoak

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    Well said, Couldn't agree more! Even allowing transfers of items that can't be farmed any more (severbirth rates etc) WOULD impact Siege's economy. Image you were a Siege player who after years of farming was able to afford a server birth rare on Siege. Now all of a sudden people could transfer the very same server birth rares from production shards over to Siege. This completely devaluates your server birth item because now there are more than only one.

    Increase drop rates for imbuing ingredients and high end magic items, then people will actually risk wearing these items out because they are less of a pain to replace if lost. This would help Siege out big time!
     
  26. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Risk is something I imagine many, like me, came here for, but found the vets here so resistant to any last trace of change and so hostile to anything that might cause the least variation in play, that abandoned houses litter this shard. Have what you will, Siege will continue to fade away.
     
  27. Marisa Kirisame

    Marisa Kirisame Seasoned Veteran

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    Imagine you're a Siege player who can finally afford a server birth rare. But since there is only one, and such transfer was not allowed, you can't have it because some ****ing son of a ***** clings to it or this ************ has long since discontinued his stupid account!
     
  28. TheDrAJ

    TheDrAJ Slightly Crazed
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    I think there are some steps that can be taken to improve the shard. The biggest step is to reduce vendor fees to allow people to put things up for sale. With a low population and high fees - no one can really afford to keep any items for long on a vendor but if it does not sell quick the player can not afford to keep trying to sell it.

    I don't care for VvV but others seem to like it but I would love to see it contained only to a lower number of cities and announcements made to non VvV players when a city is under siege (no pun intended!)
     
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  29. Silent Singer

    Silent Singer Lore Master

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    Speaking as a non vet, less than a year old Siege member, count me in the group hostile to you.
     
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  30. Candy Cane

    Candy Cane Journeyman

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    While I love to decorate my houses on the regular shards I came to Siege to get away from all that. This is not a shard that should be spent in just decorating, its a shard that is meant to be played. When this game first started there were no fancy decorations, people were happy to have a small house in which to stack up boxes for all kinds of useful items like cloth, regs, scrolls and so on. I think since you can't have your fancies here it makes people get creative. Check out houses and see what some people have done with very few rares or deco things. Maybe this should be a place to use your imagination to come up with deco using common items.

    For me Siege is a place that should be played not spent in my house decorating. I am not bashing decorating I spend countless hours hopping shards collecting things for my house but I think Siege is better left the way it is. BTW I'm old and a vet but not of Siege.
     
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  31. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I really don't think that's fair. Vets have been the ones at the forefront of every change we have ever gotten here, from unblessing all of the game breaking items, to allowing and extra house on siege. Just because not all ideas for change are embraced that doesn't mean "vets" are resistant to change. Or like I say that Siege is dying for any reason other than the game as a whole is dying, which has very little I think to do with what goes on in game.

    I don't want to be giving you a hard time, I have nothing against you, or even your idea, I think the lack of certain items IS an issue, I just don't think that getting them on an easier shard is the solution. We all have different ideas about what the shard needs and how to get it. :grouphug:
     
  32. Candy Cane

    Candy Cane Journeyman

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    Well said just because someone is against an idea doesn't mean they are against change. And if more people are against it than for it you need to accept that and move on.
     
  33. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    We may only need a few changes to make it easier for non VvV'ers to use the Towns.
    The popup, that will teleport you to the moongate do help alot.
    I don't know why they removed the VvV message for non VvV players in a guild, I rather saw them to let all get the message as a system message, you can turn off, if you don't want it.
    Also the orange flaging need to go away, when the battle is over, if not attacked attacked and not attacking, healing anyone or being near the alters.
     
  34. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Sage
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    I get my faction kicks "elsewhere" :)
     
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  35. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    I'm off to pick a pre-UO:Ren freeshard folks. Another Siege fan going elsewhere. I want Reward to go with the Risk.
     
  36. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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  37. Val'lyn De'ana

    Val'lyn De'ana Seasoned Veteran

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    As mentioned by Freja in your UHall thread, you probably won't be able to transfer your deco to your new shard.

    -Val'lyn
     
  38. Lore Denin (GL)

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    Please, take a second and think. Yes some of your ideas are not popular with vets and some new comers to Siege BUT if you take the time to read what they are saying, they are not disagreeing to disagree with you, they have valid points on why they disagree.

    I don't have an opinion on the matter, obviously being new to Siege, I am in the same boat of having all my things elsewhere... But at the expense of my own self interest and for the shard, its economy and out of respect for the population that built siege I to think its better not to move "anything" even deco items over.

    Lets change the tone of this thread and just figure out what he needs for his house and help him get it. I know there will be things he can't or won't find but actually making a list of what he is seeking be a good start.

    -Lore
     
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  39. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    Yeah, obviously... :lol:
     
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  40. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Despite the fact that you were basically asking for a reward with LESS risk.
     
  41. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I don't think that's really what he's looking for, or it would have been a "buying xxx" thread not a "change the shard" thread.

    Though it would be good to know what kinds of decos people are not finding to help get those items out there, if possible.
     
  42. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Really? Someone is going to leave because they can't get the deco from a production shard to Siege?

    That is crazy talk. I'd rather see him go than get more players like this. Next they'll want to shut off pvp while they are out hitting spawns...la


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  43. QueenZen

    QueenZen Always Present
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    u,*hugs everyone* I realize I no longer play UO any more.... so I should just shut up... and keep any weirdo opinions to myself about Siege...but I came to Siege cuz I got bored on insured trammel Chesapeake after being in UO for so many years. I began playing UO in late 1998 /early 99 on Chesapeake shard. I liked it back then, then came insurance and trammel and I got BORED. I did NOT even try Siege full time till 2004. So in theory I had a ton of vet rewards, lots of gp and a rep on chessie that I opted to leave all that behind on 5 accts. of me. I knew I would have nothing not even my ethereals to ride nor one single gp to my name coming over to Siege. I came anyhow and natch was pkd right out of the chr. creation slot. I grinned and said to myself I think I may like it here...the murderer giggled at my reaction of weirdo joy and my dancing ghost to have been slain and drylooted of my nothingness. That pk actually gave me a gift of my first Siege 1k just for my sense of humor.


    Tanivar I know what you are feeling...when ya think of all you have on Chessie, and I know yu so I know you have a lot over there as did I. Heck I even had one long time hissy fitting person well established on Siege tell me off when that person first seen me on Siege telling me off saying, just cuz you are Queen Zen and chrs. on Chessie well known and rich do not think you are anything special here, you are dirt, ur a noob here.
    I told her off and said...just wait for it...do not underestimate ME missy !!! I will do just as well here as I did there, sooner or later I AM UO, so bite me and I walked off... dead. :) My chrs. stored up here had so much stuff and still do and gp that if ever I did come back ...my chrs. can barely move so full of stuffs here and that was after donating a ton of stuff to NEW on my way out. And about 80- 100 parrots per shard yes both shards I own a lot of parrots !! lol But if yall are still playing UO I would not give up on Siege, even if UO has less players on ANY shard if ya like Siege even a bit do not give up on playing there.


    But here is my first ever Siege home notice the utter nothingness of it all heck I could not even afford...WALLS yet. Since I first made a carpenter I figured hand made bookshelves would be my so called...house walls. lol


    [​IMG]

    Yet when it came time to claim some vet reward since I did have 5 accts. going at the time, I began claiming more of those on Siege and less on Chessie since all those chrs. times 5 chrs. or more per acct. had everything anyhow that they needed even kept one home full of stuffs for all my accts. and chrs. ON Chesaspeake...but claimed vet rewards etc. etc. on my noob chrs. here with every vet reward time of year, per acct.
    So just to show ya what patience does when ya do come over to Siege...my homes on Siege with noobs, ended up looking like these over time and wanting for nothing. :) Why heck if one is really determined on Siege, one can buy net get every parrot birdie one can on a shard like Siege just to deliberately place a house next to someone that used to be a Stratics mod, just to comically drive him nuts when ya place a house right next to his, with all your own FULL OF NOISY squawking parrot birdies.. anything is possible on Siege "Perilous";) just saying :)

    [​IMG]

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    I really feel not permitting us to bring our vet rewards that we earned from our prior shard to Siege isn't that great of a handicap to prevent those determined to make it on Siege from making it...just takes time patience and earning up our gp. :) Like we had to do when we first began UO as noobs in 98 or whenever we all began with nothing, on whatever shard we first played UO ! But what do I know ? hehe
     
    #43 QueenZen, Apr 23, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2015
  44. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

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    *hugs* I miss ya QZ.
     
  45. QueenZen

    QueenZen Always Present
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    I miss yall too. But you know full well kelmo if I did come back to UO lol you would some how be stuck with squawking *imakelmo* & parrot birdie named VileWyrm & all my other parrot birdies named after rockbands, vile VMPs and all the rest, some how squaking right next to you just to comically annoy ya. lol It took all 4 of my Siege chrs. just to stow my parrots here.
    [​IMG]

    If even I would get acct. management figured out to work for all of my accts. do not tempt me I probably would return and set up ALL of my parrot birdies ! lol :) so be careful what ya might wish for regarding my return y'all hahaha
     
    #45 QueenZen, Apr 24, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2015
    startle, kelmo and TheDrAJ like this.
  46. TheDrAJ

    TheDrAJ Slightly Crazed
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Alpha and Omega

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    *chuckles*
     
  47. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Patron The DarkOutlaws, TDO

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    Try put uo_ before your accountname, when you login to the account page, if I remember right, it should work, if you can remember your password
     
    Tanivar, Val'lyn De'ana and QueenZen like this.
  48. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend

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    This is that vet mindset and logic. Wanting deco in a deco starved land will lead to wanting to shut off pvp? Keep in mind the Risk is a big part of Siege's draw to players tired of prodo like I am. That comment will serve it's purpose though and rile up some people who didn't rile up at the mere thought of change. There nightly gatherings of players with pitchforks and torches outside Landreu's house these days? :eek2:

    :)
     
  49. Silent Singer

    Silent Singer Lore Master

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    Thought you left for a freeshard?
     
  50. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
    Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend GoT

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    Nope, just Landreu standing outside the shard limits, holding his pitchfork and torch.