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Discussion in 'UHall' started by Vyal, Feb 26, 2009.
3D UO BABY
Sign it -
First goal is 100 Sigs!
UO2 is a much better idea than KR or SA ever will be.
Fix the game from the ground up. Don't fix it with a patch-work job.
(Hell, I wouild invest in it.)
And I've said it before, and I'll say it again in agreement with Bara - If I won the lottery, I'd pay someone to do it.
I Don't know much about UO2 but i heard it would be better then UO is today and SA will be I only have one problem I don't want to start over from scratch i invested over 7 years into UO so i would only sign this if i could transfer all my charcters and items to it then again why not just convert UO to UO2 so no one loses there characters or items or houses at least and go from there.
/signed...from the ground up
Because UO2 would be a new and different game, you wouldn't see that. That's like asking to transfer characters from UO to Warhammer Online. Just because it'd be a sequel doesn't mean it's the same in everything but graphics.
Besides, they likely wouldn't shut down UO if it remained profitable. You'd still have everything you worked for.
You're all assuming it would have all the content UO currently has in it. Would you sign it if it only has, say, a 4th of the content? Be a bit realistic and understand UO's depth of content came over 11 years of development. The idea is nice, but how many UO players would be disappointed with it?
Content was never UO's strong point. It was always the freedom and the tools that were made available to you.
If you were here at launch, you probably don't remember, but you couldn't even have HOUSES at that point, (Or maybe you could, but not keeps/castles, etc. - my memory is a bit rusty) let alone customize it. And only 1 land mass - Fellucca. From that bare-bones start, UO expanded.
The tools a sequel gives to players to create it's own content is far more valuable than static content created by the developers. It fosters community and creativity. That is what keeps UO going, at least in my opinion.
Add into that modern graphics and programming techniques, and you won't need a lot of "content" from the get-go - Just the tools to let users make their own adventures.
A new Ultima game? Are you kidding?
No, thanks, we already have UO 6.x
Content was never UO's strong point? There is more to do in UO than any other MMO. When you hear returning players, that is often what they site as a reason for missing the game. You yourself talk about freedom and much of that freedom is based on a large number of things to do in-game.
I was there through Beta, I was there at the beginning. I remember well. Back then it was new and exciting. Heck, for the longest time many players ran around on foot. Initially, it was exciting to kill the trolls and ogres that spawned throughout the realm. What's more, it was exciting to hunt with other players.
11 years later, there are thousands of MMOs. You'll never have that wow factor that UO had in the beginning because it won't be new as it was back then. It will never feel that fresh and new. Players are far more organized now. That's why I'm curious to see how Darkfall plays out. Will zerg pk guilds rule the day and chase the less aggressive players out of the game?
Community is a huge part of UO, I agree, but how will the community carry over into a new game? You talk about having the tools to do things for yourself in-game, but that is my point. If they created a new game, they wouldn't be able to redevelop all the content of UO into the new game. What gets left out? What if the things that get left out sorely disappoint old UO players?
This board is full of complaints about the smallest thing. Can you imagine the complaints for a UO2? "Why can I do this in an ancient 11 year old game, but I can't do it in a brand new UO?" And then imagine the reaction to the things the Devs decide to include. PvPers would complain too much focus was given to crafters. Crafters would complain too much focus was given to hunters.
Finally, look at how KR went. It's a smaller scope project than starting UO over from scratch, yet it still didn't fare too well. I'm just not sold that UO2 would succeed as everyone imagines.
No thank you...la
Sounds like another great way for UO to split the playerbase further. I'm not sure that is a good thing.
Personally, I like the new client approach they are on, I just with they'd have developed it further before releasing it, and I wish that they had used more player input in the interface design process.
I would love to see them create a sequel to UO that was truly 3D and I would love for that sequel to be more like classic UO.
More to do is not the same as content. More to do is what I meant by freedom. Your defining "content" differently than you should be, I believe. Here's a quick and dirty fictional example.
I put dragon in a dungeon. The dragon drops a new item. The dragon, item and the dungeon are content.
I use the herding skill to get the dragon to the first floor (That's the fictional part, since you can't really get mobs from one floor to the next... I think..), go invis, so that when a red PK comes into a dungeon, he's got a dragon beating down on him. He kills the dragon, but he's darn near dead. I unhide, kill the PK, and by doing so, loot them BOTH. That's FREEDOM.
It's using the content available to you in creative, non-restricted ways that makes UO what it is. Yes, now there are a lot of "things" and "skills", but they're all the same types of "things" and "skills", just with different numbers and a new graphic. And more land.
Lots of other games have better "things" and "skills" and land, both in appearance and use. Strictly in my own opinion, both WoW and UO have creatures you can mount - WoW just has about 10x as many, and they look better. Both UO and WoW have monsters - WoW just has smarter, more interesting bosses that look better. And that's just examples of "content" they have in common, to say nothing of the things one has that the other doesn't. UO has player-housing and boats, but WoW has flying mounts, the ability to FLY in the world, vehicular combat, destroyable buildings, battlegrounds, etc., etc.
Does this make my statement more clear? There's a very VERY big difference between "things to do" and content. Granted, content CAN limit the things you can do, but one thing UO has shown, is that players can get VERY creative with limited content and tools.
Who said anything about fresh and new? I want the fundamentals that made UO great brought up-to-date in a way that a simple client change can't fix.
You know what I would settle for?
Take UO, pre-tram, for ALL of it's problems. By that I mean the game mechanics and logic, the locations, the skill... EVERYTHING. BUT, take those same mechanics, art style, etc., and make it truly 3D and give it an interface as well designed as WoW. Cleaning up the code on the back and front, but makint sure that it plays exactly the same as it did pre-tram would allow for the Devs to make great tools and content that simply aren't possible with the current code base.
Well, maybe rethink how they do PvP so that there won't be another Tram/Fel split, but that's another thread all together.
The problem here is, you think the community is fine the way it is. This is a difference of opinion.
Pound for pound, in terms of QUALITY, I think UO has the best community in any MMO hand's down, and I think the freedom UO allows is part of that reason. The fact that it is one of the first MMO's ever and may have an older following may be another.
But the one thing you CAN'T deny is, the community simply isn't getting any bigger. UO as it stands, new client or no, isn't going to grow to any noticeable degree because of a simple client update. A community that doesn't grow is stagnant at best, and doomed to disappear at worst.
Quality community can be found. It's QUANTITY that's the problem. Ignoring that fact doesn't make it less true.
UO2, if done right, has a very good chance of not only having the same community carry over to the "new" world, but an INFINITELY greater chance at expanding that community. A bigger community means more money, more money means more investment into the game by EA, and the cycle continues if done properly.
The way I look at it, the tools we have now would be added in over time, just like they were with the current UO. I'd be more than happy to start back before all of these "tools" existed and wait for them to come as needed, hopefully improved in ways that the current UO simply wouldn't allow.
Besides, the most POWERFUL tool that UO, and hopefully a future UO would allow you to use isn't one that needs to be developed by the studio.. It's called IMAGINATION.
True of each and every game that will be ever be made, ever. There is no escaping this. More to the point, some people complain that OTHER games STILL can't do what UO does.
It may be smaller in scope, but not necessarily smaller in difficulty. The argument has been made REPEATEDLY in these forums why KR was a failure, and it was in no small part due to the fact that the legacy client code, the back end server code, EVERYTHING is a pile of spaghetti.
I may not be the best coder in the world, but I can't tell you how many times I've been given someone else's confusing, undocumented, painfully outdated code (Doesn't take advantage of new data structures, obsolete techniques, no naming conventions followed, algorithms, etc.) and would have KILLED to simply be able to recreate the whole thing again. It's incredibly frustrating to be trying to fix or add on to existing code or functionality, having it break, and have absolutely no idea why. I'm not talking syntax errors, I'm talking interwoven dependencies that you have no prayer of sorting out, so when something doesn't go as expected, there's almost no way to figure it out without delving into each portion of it from the ground up. It's slow, time consuming, and infuriating. I think it's safe to say, it's likely a problem most of the dev's faced with KR, and will face again with SA.
I think it's also safe to say that no one in their right minds, not even RG, thought UO would survive 11 YEARS. It wasn't designed with the future in mind, and as it was one of the first MMO's, probably had a lot of teething problems that can now be easily avoided... If they started over.
Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't. No one knows for sure. But then again, it wasn't a sure thing that an MMO based on an RTS would be successful.
It's all in concept and execution. If you fail on one, the other isn't far behind. It all depends on HOW they do it.
Good discussion, though. Sorry for the lengthy reply.
I don't care if they start using 360 goggles and I'm looking at the shins of a greater dragon. As long as I walk through the front door of my keep. Tripping over the runes to my other houses. Then you'll still have something like archers wanting a scope for their bows. Noone is going to give up years of there time. Just have two UO titles going off half cocked.
My bet is UO2 would be just like every other 3D game that's out there now. If i wanted 3D, i'd go buy a 3D game. I vote no....But. If they continued updates for the current UO, then I wouldn't mind.
It would have and might still Kick every other games azz out there...
Id love to see this /sign
however, im sure all the progress got lost when they stopped development on it and moved offices, it was never seen again apparently!
I thought UO2 = Darkfall Online??
Of course though, while Darkfall has all the great freedom and PvP aspects of UO, and more aspects that UO never had..... The game lacks depth, there is no wildlife, big empty world, no taming, no musicianship/provoking type skills, can't own a pet, no NPC hirelings, no housing, you can build houses when you build a player city, and there really is no clothes for you to wear either..
But the game reminds me a lot of UO in many ways..
as long as I can keep the city i build and my char and all my blackrock. yes!
no thanks... uo has never been about eye candy ... make it 4d, it wouldn't change anything. I think it's just noone really knows how to proceed from an almost 12 year history. No precedence for that. UO was an experiment and given its persistance, it still is one.
+1 on that. I've only been in DF for a few hours now but its easy to see its everything that UO2 would be. It felt immediately like UO and not like the other new level-based MMOs.
Most of the things you mention as missing are commited features that they just ran out of time/money to implement for day 1.
I...think that IS content.
Step 1: Rewrite the UO server code from the ground up.
Step 2: Make the current UO fully-3D.
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit.
Guess it's just difference in what you determine to be "content". I see content as items, skills, locations, scripted encounters.
I see freedom as being able to take stacks of cloth and make it look like an aquarium. Using the housing tool to be able to craft a lighthouse, or creating my own fighting arena. UO has content, but so do a lot of other games, it's what you can DO with that content, the ability to use what content you have to do imaginative things that makes UO special. IMO, of course.
If you want to equate content = things to do, that's your prerogative of course. I just don't see it that way. Call me crazy, if you like.
I heard you wouldn't be able to carry your chars forward but I don't care
Is UO2 = SA? ie isometric view but rendered in 3D.
Or are you referring to soemthing different altogether? ie like Lineage or FPS?
If the new SA client looks anything like that Iris thing (isometric but 3d graphics), I support it all the way!
But please keep 2D so that my wife can play with me.
Sorry guys, never going to happen.
Yeah they started on UO2 years back then scrapped it.
Mortal Online might be the new UO2
Actually when the folks developing it got the word it was canceled and they were being let go, they burnt all the development notes.
I would've liked taking my char's over to any new UO2. Otherwise it would feel like getting a mind-wipe and starting all over again.
If it means a stable, hack-free, script-free, exploit-free, and fully customizable world with Ultima Lore.. then I'll get be willing to start fresh. But they have to get it right!
Ummm, wasn't that effort abandoned in 1999?
Seriously, in order for this to really work, just in my opinion, UO would have to shut down first, and then market UO2. I doubt highly that EA would further divide its resources and increase operating costs to support competing online games within its empire.
That pretty much summs it up.
It doesn't take much to make a game, especially with the reasources available to people working for EA. They already have engines and map makers and pre built scripting languages in place.
Problem is they don't listen to the people who play the game they don't see the whole picture.
I am done with UO if UO2 ever comes out I will play it but as for now this game is stupid. Graphically wise I am paying what 14 bucks a month for a original Nintendo game and after much thought I have come to understand I am a complete fool for doing so.
Considering there are free shards better then the OSI shards,
I have seen 12 year olds come up with better games over at vbgore.com .
I hope all you 40 + year olds spending hours a day playing this game and wasting your life and money soon see the light as well.
Playing UO does NOT make you hip keep that in mind you old people & KIDS listen there are better games out there GO PLAY A SPORT RIDE A BIKE and if you need to play a game get a XBOX or PS or just find a better game and don't waste your time on this game it will suck you in and grab a hold of your brain like tobacco does.
11 years I have played this game I can't imagine how many hours I have actually wasted playing it.
& IT HAS NEVER EVER got ANY BETTER ONLY WORSE EVERY SIGNLE DAY it gets a LIL bit worse and I still paid.