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Since I don't believe a retro shard will happen...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by ChReuter, Mar 8, 2010.

  1. ChReuter

    ChReuter Guest

    So I have my doubts about a retro shard ever happening, therefore I began thinking about what might be possible. So many of those in favor of a retro shard seem to have the "my way or the highway" type of attitude and this added on to the fact that there really isn't one definition of "classic shard" is just one of the reasons I see the creation of such a shard problematic.

    So, let's suppose I'm correct. What IS possible then? What type of shard could be created to at the very least would fulfill some of our wants as customers longing for a different gaming experience from our beloved UO? As I see it, a new shard with a lot of changes could be created with little work on the dev teams part. Now sadly I admit it would have to be based off of the system released with AOS, but this doesn't mean the game cannot be improved. Any number of changes are possible, everything from the removal of powerscrolls to tougher skill gain and a much improved economic situation. The list is almost endless of what can be done with little labor and a small amount of testing.

    Now one does need to understand that this for the most part what can be removed to improve the gaming experience as adding and bringing back systems requires a lot of labor and is the reason I believe in the first place a retro shard is not possible. We're not going to get resist changed back to what it once was but removing malas is easy enough! I also believe this could be a compromise with those who rally against our attempts to push for a classic shard as one of the more common arguements is time spent in development, this proposal would cut that back to next to nothing when compared with what is needed for the other. And who knows, maybe with this being a less labor intensive proposal we could get a couple retro systems developed for such a shard!

    To all of you people out there like myself who dream of a throw-back, think before you knock my idea. isn't something better than nothing? Face reality, the chances of us getting a retro shard are bleak, slim at best. The same goes for the anti-retro population, give a little! Geez!

    Thanks for reading, and I hope this thread can stay focused on the concept presented. If it seems accepted than another thread can be created to discuss how such a shard should be. More important is the need to leave your thoughts on a retro shard (for or against) out of this. I don't give a damn about it anymore, it's all been said, and nothing has been done. The horse is dead in case you didn't notice. Let's focus on the possible, not pipe dreams.
     
  2. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    It's an interesting thought.
    1) Remove powerscrolls,
    2) rely on Imbuing to fix the economic problems associated with AoS.
    3) They could remove Trammel and add a workable justice system without too much major effort too, but I think maybe that would take too much balls to get through the brass gauntlet.

    I could live with 1 and 2 only, I think. But I'm not sure it would be enough to do a lot of good in the subscription numbers.
    Also, I'm not too sure what all the effects of removing powerscrolls would be, considering the removal of the extra 20 points in skills and abilities associated with them, and the stats too.

    It might be better to simply make PS's available as a chance upon usage of a GMed skill, then the next level, etc.

    But overall, I still don't see this as anything more than mostly a shift of shard population.
     
  3. Santa Claus

    Santa Claus Visitor

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    Lots depends on their coding.
    If they commented out the old code and rote the new one with it then all should be reversible.

    Returning magic resist to what is was cannot be too tough.
    For the armor resists just ignore the rest and just take physical resist.

    If a game designer wants fun let them add slashing damage for swords, stabbing for fencing and mauling for maces and let the armor types reflect that? Else just go for the old design with dex penalties.

    Everything can be changed as emulation showed, just depends how much work they put behind it. And for a company which has troubles maintaining 2 seperate systems and their website it might be better not to try it at all.

    Interesting might be giving 2-3 developer 6 months and give them each their seperate shard to develop and see what systems they would come up with. A full PvP shard with land ownership? A Carebearshard with dyeable pets Houses, fluffy bunnies. A shard where Zombiefication took over where you can get infected and permadie. A survival shard with statloss no skill limit and everything is really tough.
     
  4. BeefSupreme

    BeefSupreme Guest

    Load backup of Pub 16 on computer, plug in network
    cable and power. Done.
     
  5. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    As I see it, the major hurdle in providing another shard (particularly one that is not following the same rules as all others) is a lack of manpower. Let's face it, EA/Mythic seems to be spread rather thin when it comes to UO.

    Therefore, the only way I would support anotehr shard being implemented, is if it came with the provision that it was NOT a supported shard. That means no further changes to bne made to the shard - No rebalancing of skills, crafting, expansions. Otherwise, the time it takes to get a publish out the door will be extended as testing would have to be done not only for the current shards, but also for the new shard with its special rules.
     
  6. ChReuter

    ChReuter Guest

    Publish 16 has nothing to do with my post. I really believe that people respond such as
    You have, not because you're really that stupid, but instead to be annoying. Get over it,
    I'd love for it to happen too, but it's not.

    I figured this would happen. I had a thought and decided to put it out there, but replies such
    as this just make me wish I'd kept it to myself. I'd love to respond to what the fellow had
    to say about being an "unsupported" shard but instead I'm just going to pretend I never
    created this thread as I'm pretty certain the direction it's heading in.
     
  7. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    You forgot to mention that there IS NO BACKUP OF ANYTHING there, its been said AGAIN for the 2734962139846281764682 time. People need to stop posting if they have no freaking clue what they are talking about, or stop being annoying (all tho all of these threads are starting to get annoying in and of themselves, glad to see it went a slightly different direction in this one.)

    I don't think they should make another shard tho, your idea is not bad but instead let it be for the game. If they want to change things let them change it on all current shards, no reason to spread the population even thinner or to force people who wish to play with others to change shards (all tho this is already happening with the low population of nearly all shards save for 3) anyway just my thoughts on the whole matter.
     
  8. Unsatisfied

    Unsatisfied Guest

    @the auther of this thread. I'm sorry in advance I didn't read the rest of the replies, there's just too many threads to read this one all the way through also but I did get through yours.

    The fact is the argument is tram or fel? Everyone is pretty clear that asside from that they arnt fussy on what is in the classic shard. Pre aos, pre power scrolls, people will be happy, yeah on the polls people have voted different eras but I don't think anyone is that dead set on one or the other. Tram or fel? Problem.

    Your suggestion will still have the problem with the same argument.
     
  9. An awful lot of current UO players seem very threatened by a "Classic Shard". I still don't understand why. It would also seem that someone with the power to lock threads here feels equally threatened by open discussion of the idea.

    Here are the main things to consider where a "Classic Shard" is concerned:

    - No one is going to force anyone to play it.
    - No one is going to delete the current shards, or change them.
    - If you don't want to play on a certain shard...then scroll past it in the list.

    My opinions on the subject have been made known before, but to summerize:

    - A true "Classic Shard" should be considered a second chance for UO. It should start from launch, and should include all necessary bug fixes, but no extra "features" such as neon colors, insurance, powerscrolls, custom housing, etc.

    - A true "Classic Shard" should be Fel only...using the original ruleset. As time goes on, if PKing is a problem, a workable solution should be found this time that does not involve facets or separate rulesets or lands. There should be repercussions for killing the innocent...it should NOT however just be shut off lazily.

    - Anything AoS and Pub16 should never exist on this particular shard...ever.

    These are just my opinions...and what it would take to get me to play on a Classic Shard.

    I am still of the opinion that due to so many other choices, most players would grow tired of it very quickly...but at the same time, I don't think anyone should have the right to tell classic players that they do not deserve or are not entitled to have one shard out of dozens that caters to their playstyle. That's just wrong.
     
  10. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    This seems to be the one opinion all the other Classic Shard threads have in common. It's certainly mine.
     
  11. Unsatisfied

    Unsatisfied Guest


    Just curious cos I thought you were very pro tram, you do realize this means no tram?
     
  12. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    ChReuter,
    Please respond.....
    I am not against a "classic shard". Lord knows that if the debates on these forums are any indication, only a couple of people will be truly satisfied with any implementation, and the rest would have to "make do" with whatever shorts they feel the shard has.

    As I am already established on my shard, and am having fun, i do not beleive I would participate.

    My only worry is that resources will be taken away from the current shards and their rule set, to work on the "classic shard". Since there are already many bugs, exploits, etc. that the Devs do not have the resources to tackle already, this list will only continue to get longer as the limited resources would need to be allocated to an additional shard.

    Also, any changes made to the "classic shard", would have to be quality tested against that shards specific ruleset and programming, stretching the QA resources as well.

    In short, the only way for the classicv shard not to draw resources away from the rest of the shards, would for EA/Mythic to either hire more people to care for this shard (yeah, right), or to make the shard unsupported (or possibly very limited support).
     
  13. Cente

    Cente Guest

    If we are just throwing out ideas for a new shard for fun I want to suggest one. A new shard without the tamers. No taming skills. Cause their dragons get annoying at every fight. Someone on Chessy suggested this at an EM meeting and was beaten up over it. So I anticipate hate, but whatever.
     
  14. But you understand that not everyone that pays money to play UO wants the current version of what is running? Why shouldn't resources be diverted to create a Classic Shard if enough players want it? Is the money I pay for my subscriptions somehow less important than the money you pay for yours? What makes the current way the "right" way versus what could be? I just don't buy into this selfish idea that "the resources shouldn't be taken away from current shards" because I don't think that every paying subscriber is represented with the current shards. Perhaps EA should charge a one time fee to access the "Classic Shard" like they have done with the endless item packs...I mean, expansions. If they couldn't pre-sell enough spots, just cancel the project.

    It's sad to think that any portion of the UO population should have to pay extra to play in the ruleset they want so that spoiled and selfish players don't miss out on the latest item based expansion...but it looks like that's the only way to determine if the demand is strong enough.

    You know, I don't recall getting a choice when Ren was forced upon us, and I don't recall getting a choice when AOS was forced upon us.

    All we are asking for is a choice.
     
  15. Cente

    Cente Guest

    Ya charge extra money for a different shard. UO likes item shops now. Though I don't think people will pay extra to play on the classic shard if item shop items are going to be on it.
     
  16. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    I take it Publish 16 was UO:Ren? Whoops. :)

    My Anti-AOS drive got the better of me.

    I am pro-Tram. I'll have to find a list of the publishes <chuckle>

    Added after finding a list of Publishes:

    Publish 16 was done July 12-22, 2002. Thats a bit later than the release of UO:Ren which is listed as being done May 4, 2000.
     
  17. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    I'd pay an added fee for an AOS-free shard (With Tram :) )

    Wouldn't even hesitate.
     
  18. Heartseeker

    Heartseeker Guest

    I also think there are some people that feel threatened by a Classic Server.

    And I wouldn't be surprised if some of the mods were told to lock threads.

    With that said we seem to be living in heavy socialism of late and free speech is a thing of the past.

    I guess good old discussions and small arguments aren't allowed any more.
     
  19. Unsatisfied

    Unsatisfied Guest

    If threads start getting locked it's because people have gone overboard and posted the same thread with 1 different word 6 times.
     
  20. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    The mods haven't been told anything. The ME decided enough was enough. This thread is on the edge of getting the same treatment.

    Free speech does not = the right to be as abusive as possible to anyone who doesn't agree with you. Free speech will be allowed, if you can keep it civil.

    Do the UHall posters have the maturity to argue a point without abuse and personal attacks on anyone who disagrees with them? I don't know. Do you?
     
  21. Unsatisfied

    Unsatisfied Guest

    is a thread to discuss the classic shard going to be opened now Without constant flaming/smart ass trolling or have we given up on that and we just have the poll where we've been asked not to post on?
     
  22. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    It appeared to me that the discussing was over, and what was left was just the going around in circles flaming each other? A reasonable discussion thread with a non-inflammatory title would be acceptable.
     
  23. Heartseeker

    Heartseeker Guest

    Under those rules then it isn't free speech, sorry.

    To say you can discuss something but have to abide by this, is in itself a contradiction.

    No matter, I didn't see a lot of abuse, but then I am not censoring people's posts here.
     
  24. Jhym

    Jhym Guest

    It. Is. A. Waste. Of. Resources.

    ARRRGHHH!!!

    :gun:
     
  25. Heartseeker

    Heartseeker Guest

    Making the 3d,KR,and Enhanced Clients was a waste of resources, imo.....
     
  26. Cente

    Cente Guest

    for the record i wasn't trolling. I think having a server without tamers would be an interesting take on the game. I wouldn't mind balancing it with a shard only for tamers where they can be allowed to have an army of dragons like classic uo.
     
  27. Heartseeker

    Heartseeker Guest

    That's the beauty of the Classic Shard, when you kill their pets they need new ones.

    No bonding and no resurrection.
     
  28. Cente

    Cente Guest

    Well, that's a good point.
     
  29. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    It is my opinion that those rules are equivelant to the restrictions placed upon free speech by your own government. For clarification please pm. I do not want to hijack this thread.
     
  30. T'Challa

    T'Challa Certifiable
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    The right to free speech doesn't exist on a privately owned forum. Nice try.
     
  31. Unsatisfied

    Unsatisfied Guest

    In the eyes of people like me and heartseeker here pretty much every addition from tramto current has been resources spent where people who don't share our opinion wanted it. Why shouldn't we get some sent our way after what 7? 8 years? When is it our turn?
     
  32. Heartseeker

    Heartseeker Guest

    I have to disagree with that statement.

    Most forums I go to, you can say anything you want.

    And many are privately owned/run.

    To be honest this forum has more rules than any I have attended.
     
  33. T'Challa

    T'Challa Certifiable
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    Irrelevant. Just because *some* forums allow you to say whatever you want, doesn't mean *this* one has to.
     
  34. Heartseeker

    Heartseeker Guest

    Not saying that they have to, but hardly irrelevant.

    I find freedom of speech the corner stone of any free society.

    We have many rules in our public lives, and many in our private lives.

    That unfortunately creates a very repressed society.

    My apologies for jacking this thread.
     
  35. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    It would depend on whether the item affected combat. I don't think anything for sale in the UO store would have any effect on a pre-AOS shard.

    There would be people willing to pay a little more to be able to play the skill-based UO we loved & lost. I've been paying the monthly fee for a lot of the years since the AOS taint arrived for a game that isn't as fun as it had been pre-AOS. To get that more fun game back would be worth a little higher fee.
     
  36. Kaleb

    Kaleb Lore Master
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    Keeping The classic shard thread in the other would be nice so I will not comment my views on a classic shard, BTW PuB 16 was Powerscrolls, runics, pet bonding. pub 15 was a good patch it got rid of tamers who would have 5 wyrms in toe.

    As in a whole different setup it would be a shard like normal Production shards either just the fel ruleset, or the tram ruleset. Please dont say you have Siege, Being that its is a complete different setup from production shards.
     
  37. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    Morgan,

    Absolutely I understand that different people want different things. However, since I would not move to this new shard, I would not support its creation, as I beleive it would detrimentally effect me. A little effect on me I could handle. However, I beleive that the effects would be much more serious. May be a bit greedy on my part, but overall, I would not like the idea of a "classic shard". Just my perspective.

    However, if it does happen, I hope that it is an immensely huge success, allowing EA/Mythic to hire a lot more Devs to make this game much better. :).

    I just don't see it happening. :(
     
  38. And to over half the population of UO apparently since over half the players still run the classic client.
     
  39. since I would not move to this new CLIENT, I would not support its creation, as I believe it would detrimentally effect me. A little effect on me I could handle. However, I believe that the effects would be much more serious. May be a bit greedy on my part, but overall, I would not like the idea of ANY OF THE NEW CLIENTS.

    See how this works?

    The Devs have added lots of things than a significant portion of the player base never wanted. New clients, AOS, numerous expansions...

    ...and all of those had 'serious effects' on those of us that didn't want them.

    I am not attacking you, or trying to call you out...I am just trying to get you to see our point of view.
     
  40. Draken-Korin

    Draken-Korin Guest

    Morgana do me a favor, get yer arse back to the Atlantic boards and finish your story for gods sake. You're wasting your talents here discussing this dead subject (and you know how much id like to see it all happen).

    While your at it get back into Sosaria the game is still well worth it.
     
  41. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    I do see your point of view. I am just greedy :).

    Didn't you see the memo that UO is all about me? It has been ever since I came back. Perhaps Petra could sticky it at the top of the boards. :)

    In reality, i would like to see a very successful classic shard (but don't think we ever will). One that brings in lots of new and returning players, and one that allows EA/Mythic to continue UO and upgrades and expansions for many many moons.

    Of course, EA/Mythic will do whatever they want to do regardless of what we, the player, would like, so even this discussion, no matter how fun and exciting, is moot. :(
     
  42. ChReuter

    ChReuter Guest

    First off. Petra, I am terribly sorry for creating this thread. Although I am a supporter of a classic shard I have stopped reading the previous post on the matter for reasons I have already stated. I created this thread as an alternative to the current direction UO has been and is going in, not so much as an alternative to the classic shard alone. I Should have known though that the strong feelings posters have on the subject couldn't be kept out of this thread. Therefore, I am sorry.

    Second and lastly, to the few posters who wanted me to reply, I apologize to you also. I have a load of ideas about how this could be implemented, I have talked to a couple former employees of Origin that I have stayed in contact with over the last 12 years , and really discussed this at depth a few nights ago. I really feel that if we could have had a topic that stayed on just that, (topic!) than we could have come up with some wonderful ideas.
    Remember, I originally thought of the concept as a way to have a shard with an economy that would be much tougher to screw up, hence the harder skill gains and whatnot. There is so much more to it than just that, I really put some thought into it and tossed my concepts out to some friends who could add some important feedback, but as it stands sadly.... This forum is not the proper place for such a discussion. Not to insult anyone, I just don't think it's capable of happening here with the mindset of some of our fellow members.

    Sowwie to everyone!
     
  43. ChReuter

    ChReuter Guest

    Draken, I am insulted! I surely hope you mean what this thread has turned into and not my original concept... I surely wouldn't call a idea of yours "dead", some friend you are! :D
     
  44. Punkte

    Punkte Guest

    I'm not going to take the time to read yet another "classic shard" thread, but I will say:

    I used to play in the "classic" days and re-activated my account in November to see how things are. I feel like I already "beat" the game and when I log in now I am bored. I do not enjoy sitting around Luna bank and I could give two craps about Navrey.

    The only reason I registered on stratics was to read/comment on this debate. Just let it be known that if a classic shard is not made after teasing us about it, I will be cancelling my subscription once again and maybe even try out one of those free shards everyone has been talking about. Will the world end because I stopped playing? No. But there are others out there (more than you think) who are thinking along the same lines as me. For those of you who oppose a classic shard: Well, good luck. And be prepared for disappointment in the (near) future.
     
  45. Lord Chaos

    Lord Chaos Always Present
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    Jeez, I return after many years and people are still having the Classic Shard debate, heh, even on page 1.
     
  46. Tanivar

    Tanivar Crazed Zealot
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    The difference this time is that the Devs brought it up.

    If it happens, and isn't a PKfest, I'd give it serious try. To be rid of the AOS travesty would be a dream come true. :)

    If it doesn't happen, it'll probably result in me leaving UO for a while again. Another come & go.
     
  47. JoeBlow88

    JoeBlow88 Guest

    Corporate Socialism FTW !!
     
  48. Petra Fyde

    Petra Fyde Peerless Chatterbox
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    It is my ascertation that our RoC are equivelant to the restrictions imposed by governments. This belief is not up for discussion, I share it with you only for your greater understanding. I quote:
    Trolling is incitement - it's done to cause an argument
    Personal attack is defamation and/or libel etc.
    Blasphemy and the expression of racial hatred are also covered in the RoC. Conspiracy I'll equate to hacking attempts, 3rd party program discussions and exploit discussions which include too much information. (ie enough to allow someone to be able to repeat the processs)
     
  49. Ozymandies

    Ozymandies Guest

    My idea for an alternative classic shard would be to cut all the item properties in half. Max DI of 30 or 35% (Vanq). Max SSI of 15 or 20%. Maybe have to balance the armor a bit.

    This way you don't lose all the fun new spells and skills, but you get less boost from items. I would also reduce PS to 102, 105, 108, 110. You would probably have to adjust the new super-pets, then.

    Then, once that is balanced, you can add a shard that's really experimental, maybe adding gunpowder and sci-fi.

    Just my thoughts.

    OZ
     
  50. Llamfia

    Llamfia Guest

    No UO Vets know what those things you just explained are, the goal is to be a classic server.