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Skill difficulty discussion

Discussion in 'UO Players Corner' started by Prudentis, Apr 7, 2008.

  1. Prudentis

    Prudentis Guest

    Just out of curiosity, I wanted to ask you, which skills you consider easiest and which ones hardest. Which ones are considered pretty hard but with the possibility of significant acceleration through "gold infusion" or other means like nice legal macros that can speed up the process considerably?

    I would like to build a list for myself (and the community if interest exists).
    The benefit would be, that when building new chars from scratch, I could always first concentrate on the most difficult skills, to gain the most from GGS and add the easy ones last. If anyone would like to contribute, I would be very greatful. I propose a scale of 1 - 5. If some specific methods exist, to accelerate the skill gain, than the skill will be listed in both groups. Without comment in the "normal" way and in the second with the comment on how to accelerate.

    So here it comes: I started it, but can't decide on many skills, which I don't use often, so please, share your thoughts [​IMG]

    1 - very easy to gain without any investment
    - Focus, Meditation

    2 - easy to gain but needs more attention than 1
    Lockpicking(TW), VET(shadow ele), Magery(mage weapon + 100% LRC armor)

    3 - not very easy / not very hard ...

    4 - hard to gain, needs much time and involvement
    Animal Lore, Veterinary, Magery

    5 - very hard to gain
    Taming, Fishing, Discordance, Provocation
     
  2. Trukx

    Trukx Guest

    Any difficulty based non-melee skills, while not hard, take a while to GM or Legendary. While not much risk of dying, Discordance takes a LONG time unless you have several days to just power through it. Same for provocation. you can make legal macros in UOA for both, but its still a time consuming endeavor.

    So in this case, Hard=Takes a Long time vs Hard=dangerous
     
  3. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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    Mining is easy. I find poisoning very hard. And begging.
     
  4. Ninjitsu is a pain in the back to raise above 90. Even when using the most difficult Ninjitsu abilities (Death Strike and Kee Attack) I don't get a single 0.1 skill gain in a week. I'm stuck at 96 (and YES, I do have free skill points!).
     
  5. Prudentis

    Prudentis Guest

    Thanks for the input.
    The question is indeed about time needed to gain and not risk involved. Although if the risk is so high, thet gains come slower because of dieing, than that would count in.
    Mining easy like 1 or 2? How long will it take to GM mining?

    Maybe we could establish a scale, which rates the skills by pure time spent 0-GM?
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    well first of all you never start at zero.

    to use your mining as the example:

    either start a new character with as much mining as possible or just under 50 so you can get to new player quest

    or if you are added the skill to a current character, you really need to go find the proper npc and buy as much of the skill as possible.

    I gmd mining years ago, I would have the slightest clue as how long to gm now, most likely faster than I did it originally. [​IMG]
     
  7. In my opinion, you would need an extra number just for taming. Maybe an 8.

    Spellweaving would also be a 4 at lower levels and a 5 at higher levels. Gaining spellweaving over 90 is like pulling teeth.

    Chivalry is about a 2 below 80 then gets progressively harder. It's impossible to get 120 chivalry without guaranteed gains.

    Magery and Necromancy are almost impossibly easy with access to LRC suits (about a 2 for both).

    Inscription gets about a 3 from me. It's not too bad if you throw money at it.

    Discord and provoke are easy 5's, while peace is a 4 if you're VERY patient. 5 if you do it the hard way (via normal game play). Music is a 2.

    Fighting skills are all 3's. Wrestling may get a 4 unless you have access to a soul stone. Gaining on a mage with 15 dex isn't fast by any means.

    Parry is either a 1 or 2. It would be a one except you actually need to pay attention while training it.

    Resist also borders on 1 and 2 if you know how to train it.

    Bushido is in the 2 range. It takes little time or effort.

    And that's one of the good things about UO. Not all skills are created equal.
     
  8. Prudentis

    Prudentis Guest

    Very nice, thanks
    I will go through all the input and update the above list in case, anyone else nedds it.
     
  9. Trukx

    Trukx Guest

    Excellent list. I would make on a few changes on your Lvl 4; based upon the OP's statement of "can you enhance training by gold", Id make the following inputs:

    W/ enough money--Blacksmith, tinker and Tailor can all be GM'd in a single day. Id move those to a lvl 2+ or 3. If you are procuring your own resources.....I think id put them at a 5 <---That is an insanely long time consuming endeavor.

    With a shadow elemental, Animal lore and vet can both be GM'd in well under a day. (1 skill check each every 2 seconds)....Id move to lvl 2. Just need stacks of bandaids.
     
  10. Lockpicking is easy till 95 with the removal of the anti macro code. ...but raising it through normal gameplay past that, hope you like getting 0.1 every 20 hours cuz thats the rate post 95 unless you do the satyr trick lol
     
  11. Prudentis

    Prudentis Guest

    I think the question I asked you (and myself) was not specific enough.
    I will have to recompile the list and ask refine the question.
    I think what I want to have is a list of skills with four values:
    First, the base time needed, to GM without "tweaking" and the base difficulty which means, how expansive/dangerous it is for a real noob player and a second set of values, with time needed and difficulty if you throw money, macros and knowledge at it.

    I just need to know, how I can make a formatted table using BBCodes (or do I have to use a html table?)
    OK, I see that HTML is disabled. I will have to use BBCodes ...

    I have compiled a new List and made a new post here: Skill List

    Not all skills are listed yet and I think some may have to be corrected, so I hope for your continued contribution.
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I posted a "hey, want to help out?" note on U.Hall. We may see an influx of folks adding comments here or the chart post.
     
  13. 1 - very easy to gain without any investment
    - Focus, Meditation, Animal Lore, Anatomy, Tactics

    2 - easy to gain but needs more attention than 1
    VET(shadow ele), Magery(mage weapon + 100% LRC armor) to a degree

    3 - not very easy / not very hard ...
    Veterinary,Tailoring, Tinkering, Carpentry, Fletching, Armslore, Spirit Speak, Bishudo, Swords, Fencing, Macing, Archery

    4 - hard to gain, needs much time and involvement
    Necro, Nijitsu, Hiding, Stealth, Alchemy, Blacksmithing (If not done with AFK macro), Lockpicking, Magery, (Taming if you pick the right beasts), Mining, Spellweaving, Lumberjacking

    5 - very hard to gain
    Stealing, Poisoning, Healing, Taming(if you dont pick the right beasts), Fishing (never tried), Discordance(never tried), Provocation (never tried)

    [/ QUOTE ]
     
  14. Setnaffa

    Setnaffa Certifiable
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    Very Easy to gain with little investment:
    Parry - 3 hours from 0 to 120 fighting sheep and chickens.
    Arms Lore - automatically gains while training Tailoring or blacksmithing. Can also gain by using Arms lore on the same weapon over and over again.
    Evaluate Intelligence - Gains while training Magery or by using it on players/creatures.

    2 - Easy to gain but takes a little time, but little or no resources:
    Tactics, anatomy, Melee, Magery (with 100% LRC suit and -29 Mage wand), Chivalry, Bushido, Ninjitsu, Spellweaving, Musianship, Fishing, Lockpicking

    3- Easy because it can be done by repeating the same steps over and over, but takes time and resources:
    Tailoring, Tinkering, Smith, Carpenter, Fletching, Inscription, Alchemy,

    4- Hard, takes no resources, but requires interaction with creatures or other players:
    Healing, Peace, Animal Lore, Vet

    5- Hardest, because using the skill takes time:
    Taming, Prov, Disco
     
  15. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Setnaffa, don't forget you can get arms lore from crafting bows & crossbows, staves, crooks, bokutos, woodland armor, the wooden helms, and the tinkered weapons. Hell, because hammers (the carpenter tool made by tinkers) have weapon stats, but have never been equippable, you can get Arms Lore gains of making them too!

    I just posted part 2.2 of the new Blacksmith FAQ over in the Smith Forum, on just the very subject of how easy it is to gain Arms Lore, without having to resort to the "stare at an object for a day" method (I've gotten better gains through crafting, than through the active use method of gaining - and since I fill piles of BODs for turning in for other BODs, I get gains quite regularly on the characters that fill them, that aren't to GM Lore yet). Why waste time doing 1 thing that ties you up all day, when you can get it at the same speed as a side effect of doing something that actually pays you to do it?
     
  16. Prudentis

    Prudentis Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I posted a "hey, want to help out?" note on U.Hall. We may see an influx of folks adding comments here or the chart post.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Thanks T'Amon ... I'll do my best to keep the chart updated

    Do you think, that the distinction between standard and tweaked is necessary?
    Or should I remove it and only list the lower value (including all possible tricks) since everyone uses them and maybe add a link to some skill guides or add comments about how to gain faster?
    Also: Can you think of something better than "difficulty".
    Time is OK I think, because it just says how long a skill will take to train. Or should I just go back to only one value, which includes the overall difficulty?

    EDIT: The more I think about it, the more it seems, that only one value would suffice. With the following changes:
    The 1 - 5 system would stay and mostly only consider time. In some cases, where gaining fast, is highly dependant on very specific macros or game knowledge, I would add a link to the forum post or guide, which explains the method. In the cases, where money plays a major role in gaining skill fast, that fact would lead to moving the skill one difficulty tier up.
    What do you think about it?
    After all, the chart is better, if kept simple. The four values right now are too complicated and misleading.
     
  17. Prudentis

    Prudentis Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    I posted a "hey, want to help out?" note on U.Hall. We may see an influx of folks adding comments here or the chart post.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Thanks T'Amon ... I'll do my best to keep the chart updated

    Do you think, that the distinction between standard and tweaked is necessary?
    Or should I remove it and only list the lower value (including all possible tricks) since everyone uses them and maybe add a link to some skill guides or add comments about how to gain faster?
    Also: Can you think of something better than "difficulty".
    Time is OK I think, because it just says how long a skill will take to train. Or should I just go back to only one value, which includes the overall difficulty?

    EDIT: The more I think about it, the more it seems, that only one value would suffice. With the following changes:
    The 1 - 5 system would stay and mostly only consider time. In some cases, where gaining fast, is highly dependant on very specific macros or game knowledge, I would add a link to the forum post or guide, which explains the method. In the cases, where money plays a major role in gaining skill fast, that fact would lead to moving the skill one difficulty tier up.
    What do you think about it?
    After all, the chart is better, if kept simple. The four values right now are too complicated and misleading.
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I think the differentiation is like passive and active Meditation rates ... there is a difference in regen rate. Why not note that there is a diff and the variance between the rates? &lt;shrug&gt;
     
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I think the differentiation is like passive and active Meditation rates ... there is a difference in regen rate. Why not note that there is a diff and the variance between the rates? &lt;shrug&gt;
     
  20. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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    A very important factor on the perception if a skill is easy or not can be different from person to person too. Its a matter of personal feeling how someone likes to work on a certain skills.

    While some people like to bash the same golem for hours to gain skill on would be very boring for others. While on the other hand some peopel don't mind taming hours and hours of unicorns to get there skills up. Even if the skill go slowly up they don't see it as "very hard "work.

    I would never see mining skill slow going up ,cause i love to mine for hours and hours.While others find mining for 10 minutes already pretty dull.


    I always tried to combine gaining skills with doing fun and interesting stuff. But for certain skills like poisoning (just to name one) thats not always possible.So making a list is very nice , that people have a idea what to expext. But there should be a side note that it does matter on personal taste too. [​IMG]
     
  21. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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    A very important factor on the perception if a skill is easy or not can be different from person to person too. Its a matter of personal feeling how someone likes to work on a certain skills.

    While some people like to bash the same golem for hours to gain skill on would be very boring for others. While on the other hand some peopel don't mind taming hours and hours of unicorns to get there skills up. Even if the skill go slowly up they don't see it as "very hard "work.

    I would never see mining skill slow going up ,cause i love to mine for hours and hours.While others find mining for 10 minutes already pretty dull.


    I always tried to combine gaining skills with doing fun and interesting stuff. But for certain skills like poisoning (just to name one) thats not always possible.So making a list is very nice , that people have a idea what to expext. But there should be a side note that it does matter on personal taste too. [​IMG]
     
  22. Prudentis

    Prudentis Guest

    That's why I included time as a factor. While time can be subjective, it is a factor anyone can understand.
    If I say mining is hard and you say it's easy, we mean two different things.
    When I say it takes about 23 hours of continuous play to GM mining, than everyone with access to a watch can test it [​IMG]

    So T'Amon, do you say, I shall leave the chart as it is now? Or just leave the time/difficulty and remove the "tweaked" columns?
     
  23. Prudentis

    Prudentis Guest

    That's why I included time as a factor. While time can be subjective, it is a factor anyone can understand.
    If I say mining is hard and you say it's easy, we mean two different things.
    When I say it takes about 23 hours of continuous play to GM mining, than everyone with access to a watch can test it [​IMG]

    So T'Amon, do you say, I shall leave the chart as it is now? Or just leave the time/difficulty and remove the "tweaked" columns?
     
  24. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Tweaked values allow specifically for powergaming using legal means to achieve the greatest gains in a short time.

    If I work my smith just filling BODs to get lockdowns freed (which I REALLY have to do), thats the Time/Difficulty in a more passive mode. Buuuuut, if I crank like the dickens on Plate Gorgets to speed up overall gains, recycling and reusing recovered ingots, then it's tweaked. I'm still legal but using the mechanics in a different manner.

    Look at it this way ... tweaked values could and perhaps do represent the recommended training regimen for that skill as found here in forums. &lt;shrug&gt;

    That's my one observation ... there is value in each.
     
  25. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Tweaked values allow specifically for powergaming using legal means to achieve the greatest gains in a short time.

    If I work my smith just filling BODs to get lockdowns freed (which I REALLY have to do), thats the Time/Difficulty in a more passive mode. Buuuuut, if I crank like the dickens on Plate Gorgets to speed up overall gains, recycling and reusing recovered ingots, then it's tweaked. I'm still legal but using the mechanics in a different manner.

    Look at it this way ... tweaked values could and perhaps do represent the recommended training regimen for that skill as found here in forums. &lt;shrug&gt;

    That's my one observation ... there is value in each.
     
  26. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Maybe, but as Smith Forum Mod, I find that any "tweaked" skill seems to lack any satisfaction when completed.

    I'm about to go into the Skill Gain section of the Smith FAQ revision, and what it really boils down to is that most of the "Gain Logs" could be summed up in two or three methods, and don't need the 50+ entries in their threads and 5 or 6 FAQ example entries. I'll probably get rid of them all, and post some generic examples of each to reduce the number.

    Plus, I've got a couple of images that, if I post them in a new thread, will give the GM/105 PS/110 PS/115 PS/120 PS skill gain caps for EVERY metal-only smith item, that will allow a smith to build their own regimen as they see fit. For example, if doing the "training via BOD filling" method I prefer, the user can see exactly which BODs will give them gains for their scrolled skill cap.

    In fact, I'm using that chart right now, working 4 smiths up to 120 (current skills 80, 88, 98 &amp; 107 - originally were 70, 70, 85 &amp; 100). I divide all my iron BODs into 4 books, one for each character, with the ones below the 80 smith's skill going to the 98 one, to train his arms lore. I also fill my colored BODs with the character best suited for gains from them (Ringmail BODs for the one training Arms Lore, Chain for the 88 smith, if gold or less - the 98 smith for aggy &amp; verite, and plate BODs for the 107 smith). It works out quite well, and I get a sense of fulfillment by training in a method that rewards, instead of just costing, and taking me away from regular gameplay. (I then turn all the BODs in with my 120 smith)
     
  27. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Maybe, but as Smith Forum Mod, I find that any "tweaked" skill seems to lack any satisfaction when completed.

    I'm about to go into the Skill Gain section of the Smith FAQ revision, and what it really boils down to is that most of the "Gain Logs" could be summed up in two or three methods, and don't need the 50+ entries in their threads and 5 or 6 FAQ example entries. I'll probably get rid of them all, and post some generic examples of each to reduce the number.

    Plus, I've got a couple of images that, if I post them in a new thread, will give the GM/105 PS/110 PS/115 PS/120 PS skill gain caps for EVERY metal-only smith item, that will allow a smith to build their own regimen as they see fit. For example, if doing the "training via BOD filling" method I prefer, the user can see exactly which BODs will give them gains for their scrolled skill cap.

    In fact, I'm using that chart right now, working 4 smiths up to 120 (current skills 80, 88, 98 &amp; 107 - originally were 70, 70, 85 &amp; 100). I divide all my iron BODs into 4 books, one for each character, with the ones below the 80 smith's skill going to the 98 one, to train his arms lore. I also fill my colored BODs with the character best suited for gains from them (Ringmail BODs for the one training Arms Lore, Chain for the 88 smith, if gold or less - the 98 smith for aggy &amp; verite, and plate BODs for the 107 smith). It works out quite well, and I get a sense of fulfillment by training in a method that rewards, instead of just costing, and taking me away from regular gameplay. (I then turn all the BODs in with my 120 smith)
     
  28. Prudentis

    Prudentis Guest

    OK I left the chart as is, with the addition of some examples, to what the numbers mean.
     
  29. Prudentis

    Prudentis Guest

    OK I left the chart as is, with the addition of some examples, to what the numbers mean.
     
  30. Arms Lore... make HATS!
     
  31. Frarc

    Frarc Stratics Legend
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    Another thing that comes in my mind on skill gains is that when you work on hard skills first when you training on a character skills. Then the gaining skill is faster because your total skill points is lower .

    So its better to train poisoning on a 200 skillpoint character then on a 600 skillpoint character.
     
  32. Prudentis

    Prudentis Guest

    Yes, that's one of the points I originally started that list.
    I have been taming as long as I play the game and it is just painful at times.
    For example today, I didn't gat a single gain, because my GGS timer hasn't kicked in. With my play time, I will hit legendary anywhere near the year 2020 [​IMG]