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Skills that don't appear on the animal lore gump

Discussion in 'UO Tamer' started by Llewen, Dec 14, 2007.

  1. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Something in one of the FoF's not too long ago caught my eye.<blockquote><hr>

    The Stratics Page on barding difficulty is accurate. The formula listed on that page only gives you an approximate difficulty, however, because Animal Lore doesn't necessarily show you all of a creature's skills - Parry, for example, doesn't show up in that list, but the creature may have skill points in it, affecting its total difficulty.

    [/ QUOTE ]So there are skills that don't appear on the animal lore gump, that may affect your pet's effectiveness. I know I've had pets that seemed to be better or worse than the stats and skills when they are lored would seem to indicate.

    Does anyone have any more information on this? The uo.com bestiary lists skills, but it doesn't list parry, I'm wondering if there are other skills that we don't know about. Damnit, my dragon could be a fantastic cook, and I want to know!!!
     
  2. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    unlucky there is no way to see the other skills [​IMG]
     
  3. As far as I know, all skills that tameables can have are visible on the AL gump.

    Monsters, on the other hand, have always had skills you can't see with AL.

    Juka have various weapon skills, which can't be seen.
    Some peerless bosses have spellweaving, which you can't see
    Various undead have necromancy/ss, which you can't see
    Various monsters have parry

    bard difficulty should be 100% accruate when compared with all tameables... it may be inaccurate for some non-tameables

    uo.com's bestiary section has accurate skill ranges for all creatures that are listed there. Well... accurate except for the few that recently changed [​IMG]

    EDIT:

    I forgot to mention... the value you see on the animal lore gump comes down from the server as a data value... In other words, that is either calculated at the server level (most likely) or calculated in the compiled code on the client side. Either way, I think that value could very well be accurate. If it's calculated on server side, it should be correct when it's sent down to the client.
     
  4. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    I gave my brother a fully trained ice blue Hyruis. He bonded it the took it out for a spin in a matter of a few days he has raised it barding difficulty .1. Not sure if this helps but he's sure it was a parry gain. So at least for me its confirmed that after a pet is fully "animal lore" trained they still will gain in barding difficulty. He says hes goning to post some pics of the AL gump some time soon. Well see if he does!@
     
  5. Could be a stat gain too.

    Has anyone seen a hiryu parry? It's easy to see when something parries... you see a white dot appear over them (just like you do when you use a slayer weapon on something).

    I haven't really hunting with a hiryu much, but I don't recall ever seeing one parry.
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Proof that pets have hidden skills that are not in the animal lore gump.
    I took my fully trained beetle, stats and skills, and had him spar with a hiryu for a few hours and he gained 3 tenths of barding difficulty.


    [​IMG]

    the only skills I can think he can be gaining would be parry or focus but I would think he would of GMed focus a long time ago.
     
  7. interesting...
    maybe pets do parry and when they do it doen't show the parry animation... Maybe I just haven't seen the parry animation on them and it still happens.

    That's certainly good evidence to indicate pets have hidden skills, though.

    I wonder what the skills are. I certainly agree that focus would cap out long before med.
     
  8. <blockquote><hr>

    interesting...
    maybe pets do parry and when they do it doen't show the parry animation... Maybe I just haven't seen the parry animation on them and it still happens.

    That's certainly good evidence to indicate pets have hidden skills, though.

    I wonder what the skills are. I certainly agree that focus would cap out long before med.

    [/ QUOTE ]Wouldn't Parry be completely useless on pets?

    Think about it. Parry WITHOUT a shield and WITHOUT Bushido and using WRESTLING amounts to no Parry at all. So, completely useless.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>



    Think about it. Parry WITHOUT a shield and WITHOUT Bushido and using WRESTLING amounts to no Parry at all. So, completely useless.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    In order to gain parry you have to successfully parry a blow. If it is parry my pet is gaining then it is working. my guess is parry on pets works different then players.
     
  10. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    I think this is the most intriguing thing I've seen come along in taming since that wonderful little frenzy of speculation around whether pets can have stats trained before being tamed. [​IMG]
     
  11. <blockquote><hr>

    <blockquote><hr>



    Think about it. Parry WITHOUT a shield and WITHOUT Bushido and using WRESTLING amounts to no Parry at all. So, completely useless.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    In order to gain parry you have to successfully parry a blow. If it is parry my pet is gaining then it is working. my guess is parry on pets works different then players.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Well you kinda prove my point. Pets don't have parry. The change in Barding Difficulty is from something other then parry because pets don't have it.

    Focus? Spellweaving is out... Necro and SS are out... Healing? - nah, no bandages other then Cu's.

    I don't know what the mystery skill is, my point is that it's probably not Parry.
     
  12. Maybe the hidden skill is "Bard Difficulty"!

    lol

    I'm joking

    now, a really good test would be to test a fully trained dragon and see if its bard difficulty increases. The reason this would be a useful test is that dragons already have all their skills revealed on uo.com. You could use any critter that has their stats up on uo.com, though... that includes WW, nightmare, etc.

    If you're still seeing bard difficulty increase on a fully trained pet where we know the skill list, that would be interesting.
     
  13. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    Ok, I've recorded all the barding difficulties for all of my fully trained pets. We'll see if there are any changes.
     
  14. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    Well heres the deal. Pets that gain post training were probably owned by a peace tamer. So that may limit the skills that it could be. While you can parry with a weapon unless you have something in your hands wrestling wont gain it. Now, I say its gotta be a "skill" that only creatures have like barding resistance. Where a creature has a chance to break peace faster or a skill that has no output based on creature type like when they added tuski wolves they added rage maybe that went in to a data base that was inferred to all pets even through it leads to no effect!
    Poisoning may also be an inferred skill because the application of poison isn't as involoved as when a player does it. They gain it when using wrestling like anatomy but the base creature doesn't allow things to be poisoned. The devs just wiped the skill slot with a -- but it still increases.
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>


    now, a really good test would be to test a fully trained dragon and see if its bard difficulty increases. The reason this would be a useful test is that dragons already have all their skills revealed on uo.com. You could use any critter that has their stats up on uo.com, though... that includes WW, nightmare, etc.

    If you're still seeing bard difficulty increase on a fully trained pet where we know the skill list, that would be interesting.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Ok, I tried sparing my dragon with another dragon and he gained 6 tenths barding. So somthing is gaining on him

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Reinzeld

    Reinzeld Seasoned Veteran
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    I am somewhat ignorant of a lot of this stuff, but...if you had already trained up that particular dragon (in this example) to its absolute limit of visible skills...aren't the odds going to be in favor of anything *else* it can gain in also being maxed?
     
  17. 5% Luck

    5% Luck Guest

    Hes a Peace/Tamer!
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I don't have any tamers with peace on them, and my dragon &amp; mare both gained in bardic difficulty.

    Hmm... Taste Identification? Forensic Evaluation? [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    <blockquote><hr>

    I am somewhat ignorant of a lot of this stuff, but...if you had already trained up that particular dragon (in this example) to its absolute limit of visible skills...aren't the odds going to be in favor of anything *else* it can gain in also being maxed?

    [/ QUOTE ]Not necessarily, skills gain at very different rates depending on the skill and how you are training them.

    I KNOW WHAT IT IS!!!! BEGGING!!!!!!

    You think they're making fierce roaring noises in the heat of battle. Well, I looked up dragon interpreters in the Yellow Pages, and she transcribed what my dragon was actually saying in his last fight.<blockquote><hr>

    Some-Nameless-Mage-With-Those-Stupid-Swords: *Slash! Hack! Corp Por!*

    Quell the Dragon: All I ever wanted was a warm cave on a little island with some frightened villagers bringing me a nice young tender virgin once a year...

    Some-Nameless-Mage-With-Those-Stupid-Swords: *Corp Por! Hack! Slash!*

    Quell the Dragon: [Who do you wish to grovel to?] Please don't hurt me, I just had my nails done!

    Some-Nameless-Mage-With-Those-Stupid-Swords: *Slash! Corp Por! Hack!*

    Quell the Dragon: [You have gained .1 in Begging skill.] No really! DON'T HURT ME!!! My hiatus hernia is killing me... *beelllch*

    [/ QUOTE ]It just goes on and on. Apparently you can gain begging skill on a failure...

    But seriously, if it is a rune beetle, and it is gaining barding difficulty during combat, the only skill it can possibly be is parry. All the other skills that could possibly gain during combat are displayed on the gump.
     
  20. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    I can confirm that I have a rune beetle that has gained at least .1 on barding difficulty since it was "fully trained."
     
  21. LOL. Begging. I think they do that to get food out of us too.

    And I think they have the skill "not listening" cause I'd swear some of my pets are GM in it.
     
  22. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    <blockquote><hr>

    And I think they have the skill "not listening" cause I'd swear some of my pets are GM in it.

    [/ QUOTE ]
    [​IMG]

    I can confirm as well that my dragon has been gaining in barding difficulty since it was "fully trained", which means that the bestiary doesn't list all the skills.

    The only two possible skills that I can think of that it would be would be detect hidden, or parry. I'm pretty sure it isn't detect hidden because my old dragon stopped gaining in barding difficulty, and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been around enough hidden players or mobs to have gm'd detect hidden.

    Which leaves parry. Parry is the slowest combat skill to train as far as I know, so it makes sense that it would still be gaining after the rest of the skills are fully trained. I'm about as certain as I can be, without absolute proof, that the hidden skill that doesn't appear on the animal lore gump is parry.

    Which is interesting because, if this is true, it means that mobs (including pets) parry in combat. The only question that remains is, how much difference does this actually make in combat? My guess is it does make a difference, but probably not a hugely significant difference. I'm a person that often, for better or worse, judges by intuition, or "feel", and I can say from experience that my older pets "feel" like they are better in combat than my newer ones (unless there is a huge difference in stats).

    My new dragon is slightly better, in stats and resists, in just about every way than my old dragon, but so far it "feels" like it isn't as strong in combat as my old dragon.
     
  23. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>


    Think about it. Parry WITHOUT a shield and WITHOUT Bushido and using WRESTLING amounts to no Parry at all. So, completely useless.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Think the developers could code a skill to work how ever they wanted to on a specific mobile as in the formulas they use after all bushido has and figures parry without the sammy having a shield equipped but using a two handed weapon...the difference is we can see the parry skill on the toon
     
  24. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    <blockquote><hr>

    Think about it. Parry WITHOUT a shield and WITHOUT Bushido and using WRESTLING amounts to no Parry at all. So, completely useless.

    [/ QUOTE ]This is incorrect as far as I know. Parry skill with a single handed weapon, or with no weapon, with no shield or bushido, does make a difference, just not as much of a difference as it would with a shield, or with bushido and a two handed weapon - and as Microelf already mentioned, who knows exactly how it works with mobs? There is a good chance it works the same way, but that may not be the case.
     
  25. Llewen

    Llewen Grand Inquisitor
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    This isn't hard proof, and may even be my imagination (although I don't think it is), but it seems that my new puppy and beetle are taking less damage than they did immediately after being "fully trained". Just adding this to the mound of circumstantial evidence and, probably, faulty deductions that seem to indicate that the missing skill is parry.