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Skills That Lower Special Moves Mana Cost

Discussion in 'UHall' started by puni666, Sep 3, 2010.

  1. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Just a suggestion to add Wrestling to the list that lowers special moves mana cost and remove Stealthing from the list. I'd say wrestling is far more combat related then tip toeing around.
     
  2. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Does stealth effect more than shadow strike? I was not under the impression that it did.
     
  3. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    So is Chivalry, but according to some at Mythic, Chivalry is a "Spellcasting skill like Magery, not a combat skill like Bushido or Ninjitsu".

    whiskey. tango. foxtrot????

    Part of the problem with the game currently is that the Ninja and Samurai templates (especially the latter) had the -10 cost reduction to the user on a silver platter (as all 3 base skills are on the reduction - thereby making variant templates of these dominate the field for non-spellcasters.) This results in all those elf-based samurai templates, as before the special move JOAT nerf, there was at least THAT reason to justify not playing an elf samurai. In the name of balance, they made it to where people would only use ONE race for warriors (except for meta-purposes such as RP) - a race that is supposed to be my oriented to magic than melee.

    The closest thing to a "spellcasting" power in Chivalry is Dispel Evil. Everything else is combat-related, duplicatible by potions/items/special moves, or duplicatible (At much less risk) by healing. Even Holy Light is really just an alternative to using a whirlwind special, or a weapon with hit area, and its radius is miniscule compared to the area attacks of the mage.
     
  4. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Only shadow strike and it sort of acts like eval does for magery, but for the death strike spell and only 50% of the damage.. the other 50%'s from hiding.
     
  5. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Wrestle is a defensive skill...not an offensive combat skill...
     
  6. E_T

    E_T Adventurer
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    My suggestion would be to add more pure warrior skills like Tactics and Anatomy to the lower special move mana cost list. Removing the JOAT free 200 points completely nerfed non-bushido/parry warriors.
     
  7. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    I wish chiv was added. My 4/6 macer took a royal crap with all this.
     
  8. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    You think your templates are cramped or short on mana? ...just consider that a mage is almost required to carry a mage weapon into PvP combat...in todays game that is.

    Changes to specials costs were made to TRY to balance things out in the PvP arena.
     
  9. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    holy **** you did it again, what a surprise another thread crying about how nerfed mages are.

    If mages are so bad, just stop playing one.

    Thanks
     
  10. ohmyGED

    ohmyGED Visitor

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    :popcorn:
     
  11. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    I was just complaining about this to myself the other night when i was considering making a really gimp char with wrestle.

    I like it!

    Of course this would really screw up my new fun dexer with stealth, and for that, err... i'd be upset =(
     
  12. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    No not really, anat/eval is defensive. Wrestle can be offensive if you know what the heck ur trying to accomplish =)
     
  13. Elden of Baja

    Elden of Baja Journeyman
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    I still feel anatomy should be on the list. I also Agree that wrestling should be on there, and that they should keep stealth.

    Now to the Fun Part.

    Name ANY other time in the game that for a measly + 20 Skill on your jewels YOU GET THE BENEFIT OF 120 WEAPON SKILL AS FAR AS BLOCK CHANCE.

    If they took Mage weapons out of the game, That would get rid of 90% of the mages out there. You want to act like having to carry a mage weapon is a hindrance when its handing block chance to you on a silver platter?
     
  14. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    You play the same template on every char you have. The only difference is that you play a faction toon when there is 20 other guildies on. I on the other hand play 12-14 different templates. I was just stating that one of my favorites, my 4/6 dexxer, is no longer playable due to the mana cost. Thats all I am stating. You can cry on someone elses shoulder because your arguments dont hold water with anyone here.
     
  15. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Wow... I totally forgot about this forum lol.

    To what RestroomDipS said about wrestling not being offensive.. hmm take a chiv wrestling tamer that disarms me making my defense 0% and then para punches me *ALL KILL* then I have a dread mare on me hitting me 100% of the time. That's not offensive at all that was all defensive.

    I hope you sense my sarcasm.
     
  16. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    You dont have a clue, you only see TWO of the chars I play on one shard...and not the 25 other mages I play on the rest. Second, I wasn't crying...I was making a valid point. Third, you only play dexxers...period...2/3 of them with hiding and stealth. The last little factiod was from your own guildmates...so shush.

    Of course my arguments don't hold water with a bunch of dexxers crying about mana costs, derp!
     
  17. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Ever heard of a box?
     
  18. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Really you're going to tell me to use a box? One of the most controversial items in the game? I thought in previous posts you were talking about what should be done to fix this game and how you understand that more then a lot of people then you throw that at me LOL. That should be ahead of the list on "fixes" then your supposed bandage fix.
     
  19. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Expanding the lower mana cost capabilities of skills is not something I would consider to be a good fix. Wrestle is not an offensive skill because it does no damage...it was designed as a defensive tool for MAGES. Second, chivalry is a CASTING TERTIARY SKILL...not an offensive weapon skill. When I mentioned fixes, I meant fixes that would make the game more fair...comprende?
     
  20. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    And if you believe this, I got some great beachfront property in Flagstaff that is just up your alley....

    Chivalry is a COMBAT ENHANCING SKILL of the SAME TYPE as BUSHIDO AND NINJITSU. It's "Spells" are as much (if not LESS) magery type spells than the "powers" of Bushido and Ninjitsu.

    Let's see - Adds weapon DI, Adds weapon DI & hit Chance, Changes damage type of a weapon... Yeah, those are REALLY magery spells. As for the rest, mostly they emulate the Cleric/Priest spells of the stand-alone Ultimas, without introducing religion into the game (curing, healing, curse removal, life restoration, repelling/turning or smiting evil with the power of your good karma).

    ONE spell, and one spell only, from the entire Chivalry list, has a magery equivalent that isn't a secular replacement for clerical power (Sacred Journey - and even a clerical spell like it was added to D&D (one of the major influences on Ultima) in the 1980s, called Dimensional Folding). And, frankly, I don't remember spells like recall in the stand-alone Ultima games, either (unless you consider a total party kill, followed by hearing Lord British's voice calling you back for a rez, and to raise the money to rez the party, a recall).

    And, pray tell, by your assessment, where the hell does Stealth fall, since it modifies the cost of ALL special moves, not just the one requiring Stealth? Or Parry?? It's not an offensive skill in the slightest, without rules in the game for spiked shields or shield attacks. But, it counts as well.
     
  21. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    well hell...why you are at it...toss in necro too right? i mean it fits right in with your assessment no? rolleyes:

    If you have issues with mana now on a dexxer template, you are obviously trying to cram WAY too much in or have no clue of how to effectively manage the mana on your template.

    i may not agree with all the skills in the list of modifiers, but I certainly would not like to see more added. dexxers still have the ability to dish out larger attacks using less mana than their mage counterpart and can do so in a continued fashion with the rules as they are now. if you start adding more crap to this list, you are only helping to further skew the balance issues that currently exist in the game.

    btw, trying to incorperate D&D examples is asinine. This is not D&D.
     
  22. jtw1984

    jtw1984 Seasoned Veteran
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    Restroom Cowboy should have no say in anything related to this subject. Like Chucko said: Restroom only plays factions when 10+ of his guildmates are on and he still dies! lol

    Just stick to playing guard zone hugging blues Restroom. It's a shame how he lets his faction guildmates die because he is too much of a pansy to get on his faction toon.

    Oh let me guess? You want to duel my field fighting temp against your casting focus inscription dueling temp? lol
     
  23. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Heh strange, most of the time I am pvping I get statted due to going solo in fel. I think you have that backward too...

    Funny, half my faction toons are red and I have no blues that are non faction.

    Sorry, I haven't had inscription on anything but a pure mage. I ping 100, if anything all I do is field fight. rolleyes:

    Guess you should be more educated with your trolls, you struck out. :lol:

    Now how about either being on topic or taking a hike? :)
     
  24. Nyses

    Nyses Lore Keeper
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    I just looked the list over again, and I suppose you could make a case for many of the skills there. But why in the heck does chopping down trees or stealthing around help to reduce ones mana cost? If anything they should add Chivalry, Anatomy, Tactics, and/or even Focus to that list.

    But this is UO and logic has NO place here. ah well.
     
  25. chuckoatl

    chuckoatl Guest

    Like I said you play one template, but thanks for clearing that up.

    this is just on atl......

    C H U C K O = Mystic scribe
    Terrorsquad = Bleedwalk gargoyle (hiding and stealth)
    Kindrid spirit = NecroMage
    Polish Sausage = DS Ninja (hiding + stealth)
    Wes = Bush Tamer
    Angry Samoan = tamer mage
    Terrorsquad = mystic mage
    Chucko da Clown = LJ Bushido
    Dirty Pop = Parry wrestle Mage


    I think that's it. So you are so right, I play nothing but dexxers. 2/3 of them have hiding and stealth. Troll away kid, troll away.
     
  26. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    The only chars you play are Polish Sausage and Terror Squad and occasionally Wes. All three of those are dexxers, the rest are just fodder you rarely use. 2/3 of the chars you ACTIVELY play have stealth.

    On the flip side, I play several toons regularly on Atl. Including a tamer mage, scribe mage, wrestle mage, and two mystics. Do you somehow think you know all of my characters Chucko? Short answer...no...you don't.

    Now please, lets get back to the topic at hand...mmk peanut?
     
  27. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    I have to say restroom, your arguments on topic do not really hold water....

    What skills SHOULD count towards the Lower mana cost? this is the question because your arguments do not work out. If Bushido and ninja fit, then so does Chiv. If Parry, and stealth fit, wrestling MORE than fits. If Lumber jacking fits, then Anatomy fits. Not really sure what a counterpart of Poisoning would be....alchemy? And if we remove all these other skills that don't "fit" on the list, then you are left with just The weapon class skills, so people should run around with 3 different weapon skills just to satisfy this addition to the game?

    I do not see where you see necromancy fitting, Magery,Mystic,Necro, and Weaving, are all spell class skills. They all have FULLY offensive spells, a defensive measure, and neutral measures. Chiv has almost only an array of enhancing measures, You can argue it has 3 defensive measures (Healing, Curing, and removing curse) But it has no true offensive measure, the only one you can name is holy light, and you can only really use it against flagged opponents, and only with in a short range. Next time I see a person using only chiv to fight then I may agree, until then it will remain in the class with Bushido and ninjitsu as being enhancing only.
     
  28. Lynk

    Lynk Grand Poobah
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    Do they ever? No.
     
  29. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Lol, do you think your personal attacks get your point across? Or do they only serve to get you banned?

    As I said, I don't agree with everything on that list of skills however a cutoff needed to be considered to try to round out the skills list without making it TOO EASY to attain. Perhaps you should read what people write sometimes instead of acting like a rabid waterhead and maybe then you will get where they are coming from.
     
  30. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Well the original post was to add wrestling and remove stealth, so over all the same number of skills would stay on the list.
     
  31. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    Wrestling is nothing more than a defensive measure, hence the reason for not needing tactics to use the two defensive specials. Stealth on the other hand is a tertiary skill required for a ninja in order to do DS dmg and use certain ninja skills.

    So no, I don't think it is a good trade off.
     
  32. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    If parry reduces mana cost then wrestling should also. They're both defensive and they both have to do with combat. Stealthing is just movement which has benefits to combat with the element of surprise, but nothing more. It has nothing to do with with actual combat situations. It is merely a entrance and exit strategy.
     
  33. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Mostly agree with puni's post right after yours. But your opinion is your own, and warranted, so I won't argue with what you said. I am not even sure why we are trying to get wrestling on the list....how many wrestling type characters have 300 skill points in 3 of those skill groups? I have 240.....
     
  34. cdavbar

    cdavbar Lore Master
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    I got some ocean front property in Arizona!!!! Man are we lucky to have these rare properties or what. ROFLMAO
     
  35. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    I'd have 300! I love my skill increase!
     
  36. Cear Dallben Dragon

    Cear Dallben Dragon Babbling Loonie
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    this makes no sense.
     
  37. Restroom Cowboy

    Restroom Cowboy Visitor

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    that is what I get for responding to a troll comment...

    according to him: I only actively played one temp, was explaining otherwise.
    according to him: he plays multiple temps actively other than stealthers, was explaining otherwise.

    nothing more to get...aside than it doesn't help anything responding to a troll.
     
  38. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    1.) Does skill increase matter? and 2. I still don't understand the use in having wrestling count towards the lmc cost for specials... Other than mages who has wrestling, and aside from that who is spamming the specials? :coco:
     
  39. Lefty

    Lefty Lore Keeper
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    I imagine the OP has the wild idea of a Wrestle disarm archer and would benefit from the LMC bonus. The template is intriguing though. If disarmed of his bow, he still has a defense and can counter disarm.
     
  40. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Well then, that is interesting....I can't think right now, but does that template normally rely on the second weapon skill to hit 300? thinking about it lighting It seems like it does.....
     
  41. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    I usually run parry on most of my dexers, but I'd rather use wrestling then parry because of disarm, but I wouldn't get a lmc bonus making my damage over time a lot lower then having 200 or 300 skill points and getting lmc from it. I never play and archer :/.. I do have throwing on my gargoyle though because cyclones are one of the best assist weapons in the game imo.

    And removing stealth from the chart was suppose to be a nerf to the ninja dexer template since all there skills are in the combat lmc tree. More mana cost for them makes them have less damage over time blah blah blah you know the rest.
     
  42. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    I understood the nerf part, but in reality the ninja is the same as the Samurai, Bushido,parry, weapon skill vs ninja,stealth,weapon skill. Although for a ninja they also need at least hiding, but Bushido only needs the three skills that are in the lmc skill tree (we are not including tactics since again both classes need this, it is also not in the skill tree but the point was all the Bushido needs are in the list and not all the ninja needs.)
     
  43. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Off topic, but what is the point of back stab and the other attacks in the ninjitsu spell list? They're severely underpowered imo. At least everything in the bushido spell book is useful besideds honorable execution... that's a laughable attack.