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Slayers and Imbuing could lead to a problem

Discussion in 'UHall' started by Trebr Drab, Sep 14, 2009.

  1. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Some day, soon, the majority of players will have slayer weapons with just the right other abilities for all the top critters. Then UO is going to have to beef up these critters to keep them a challenge. At that point, it would become nye on impossible to fight them without slayers.

    Is this what we want? To have a different weapon for every critter, and no other weapon is good for it?

    If not (and I don't), one suggestion is to change "slayer" to be something like a 10% damage boost.
     
  2. -=KLiM=-

    -=KLiM=- Guest

    to be honest, you only benefit from slayer if you 1) are a mage or 2) dont have bushido. With EoO and perfection + 100 di from items you already have 300 DI which is the cap, so no slayer will make you better. And you can't imbue spellbooks, so...
     
  3. deraiky

    deraiky Guest

    Who needs a slayer ?
    I get my 300 damage increase without too..
     
  4. hen

    hen Certifiable
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    Pure warriors need a slayer. I don't like all that ninja cherry tree nonsense in Sossaria so I avoid it.
     
  5. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    OK, wait, I'm not that far sunken into UO that I know everything, but are you telling me that the cap is 300% of weapon damage? Holy Sheets!

    Does anyone else not see a problem here? Or am I just too old fashioned and expect some semblance of reason in my gaming.
     
  6. ZidjiN

    ZidjiN Babbling Loonie
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    As the above posters allready said. Most players allready do as much dmg possible WITHOUT slayers. Dexers with bushido that is.

    You get 100% DI from items (thats the DI cap fromitems)
    you get 100% DI from Enemy of one
    you get up to 100% DI from perfection

    And yes the cap is 300%di as of today. So if you add a layer your dmg wont increase anyway.
     
  7. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Well, as you can see, there is a problem then. That being that certain templates and gear puts you at the top tier, and anything else becomes useless.

    That's a lot of useless things.

    So, any warrior that doesn't have both Chivalry and Bushido is at a huge disadvantage to those who do.
    I assume there's a similar structured Mage/Necro template.
    And then you have tamers.

    Any other template is at least 1/3 to 2/3 less able?
    And that's assuming you have top gear?

    Doesn't anyone else see a problem with that structure?
     
  8. aarons6

    aarons6 Certifiable
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    who cares, slayers should be easy to get..
    same with other items with the properties you need.. its a game, not a life goal..

    i LOVE imbuing, my chars are all set up now.. with the missing pieces they needed that was impossible to find or get because of the RNG.
     
  9. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
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    so youve listed off bushy warriors, necro mages, and tamers......

    who else is left?

    what are you hunting with?
    a spellweaving herder with item id?

    if your warrior dosnt have chiv and or bushy thats.... well that just silly.
    you have to at least have chiv on a warrior.
    so if you have a warrior and you max out your DI with items (which isnt that hard, weapon is gonna be at least 40, stormgrips are 25 and tali is 20 so thats 85 without even getting to your rind and watch)
    and you DONT have busy.
    and you have chiv.

    so what... your 100 points behind the bushy guy cause your sitting only at 200% instead of the 300%.
    well, make that up by USING a slayer.
    now your once again on a level playing field.

    really, its the persons personal choice as to what template they use and what gear they wear.
    if you make a bad choice why should other poeple be penalised for it?

    either you wanna be the fella with the big stick doing all the damage and taking all the damage, or you wanna be the little fella in the shadows with the thin dagger poking annoying holes when no one is looking.

    ya cant be both.
     
  10. Ender

    Ender Crazed Zealot
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    Don't take away reasons to train up imbuing. Quit whining.
     
  11. popps

    popps Always Present
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    Well, perhaps in a future expansion we will see Ultima Online make a come back to being more skill based than item based ?

    If so, I think the problem would no longer be there (the slayers, that is....).........
     
  12. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Well, it appears in this case that slayers would only be a problem if skills were no longer a problem.
     
  13. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Why? Why must players have to choose a specific few templates in a game with so many skills?

    How about this template:
    Swords
    Anatomy
    Tactics
    Healing
    Detect Hidden
    Tracking
    Camping

    Now, obviously quite a few people are going "Camping?" right now. Why is that? Because right now it's useless. And even with any other choice for that last skill, this template is still usefull only to hunt a few critters like Orc Scouts.
    But the entire point is--why does it have to be this way? Wouldn't the game be a lot more fun to open it up to more template options?
    I'm not saying that a tracker should be as good in combat as a warrior of that specific template, I'm saying that this template should not be that far worse that it's so useless.
     
  14. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Are you really suggesting that all 56 skills should be balanced in a way that no combination can ever reach a possible max over another combination? Also if you remove the cap for damage, than all you would achieve is that the people with the best possible combination would always be better than someone else, where as with the cap there are multiple ways to reach the possible cap. Let us be logical in our arguments.....Although I sort of agree with popps about the item based gaming, it has been what? 9 years? lets move on from that argument.
     
  15. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest

    Its not "useless" for one, and for two we play an "mmoRPG" that means you role play whatever template you choose. If you want a powerhouse then play one, if you want to be a thief with 0 damaging ability play that.

    For example one of my templates is as follows

    Chivalry
    Stealth
    Hiding
    Tracking
    Detect Hidden
    Spirit Speak

    Now is that template usefull to you? Most likely not, but I sure have the most fun with that template than any of my others.
     
  16. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    No, all I'm saying is that it should be closer so that other options can be used, that's all.

    Has it really been 9 years? And in that time, there's been a few attempts by the Devs to solve the problem (so it IS a problem). It was never "items". UO had items from the start. It was over powered items that was the problem, an imbalance. They worked on it and ended up with caps. But the problem of imbalance is quite obviously still here, and it currently includes certain skill sets.
     
  17. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    But you are limited to one specific play style with that template. You can't survive an accidental targeting of a sparrow with that template unless you run like a little girl. Does that make sense?
     
  18. Gheed

    Gheed Certifiable
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    Thing is... the same folks that make the radar... are also making the radar detectors. The latest additions always seem to nuetralize w/e template is in favor for the month. Bosses that teleport on top of archers, throw "bones" turn dragons wild or are resistant to summoned creatures.

    The devs like to throw us curve balls that turn w/e system we are fighting with on it's ear. So things like the city invations a while back... where we fought Generals for high end weapons. That makes more sense for imbued slayers. Lots of damage against mobs with lots of hitpoints causing lots of wear. It was common for me to repair my weapons after each wave of the invasion.
     
  19. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Well, whatever. I made my point if anyone cares to listen. Got better things to do than go back and forth on it.
     
  20. Thrakkar

    Thrakkar Slightly Crazed
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    Would be cool, if they split all the skills into two groups. Primary (Magery, Tailoring, Taming, Fencing, etc...) & secondary skills (Herding, Tracking, Camping, Begging, etc..). Overall skill cap would remain at 700 (720), and a cap for primary skills would be at 500 (520). Leaving at least 200 points to secondary skills.

    Guess, that would make it lots more interesting (at least for me) :p
     
  21. Poo

    Poo The Grandest of the PooBah’s
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    i dont dissagree with you that mixed templates are good.
    i myself have a lot of dead skills on my toons.

    where i DO disagree is that if your gonna put on a pink frilly dress and run into the middle of a fight you should also be the first one to die.

    ok, thats a harsh way to put it, but the fact of the matter is if you wanna measure two toons against each other the one who is made to fight and has all his skills into the HCI and DCI and damage then he SHOULD out damage the fella who wants to RP and has detect hidden on his template along with other skills that dont enhance the damage to mobs.

    basically you cant have your cake and eat it too.
    either your a killer or your a RPer.

    i think your gonna be hard pressed to find anyone who will say that they both should do the exact same damage to a critter.
     
  22. Norrar

    Norrar Lore Master
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    Or you're an RPer who -likes- to pvp, and can do so, heh.

    To the OP though,

    SA has,sure, added the ability to make whatever weapon you want. But it also flung tougher monsters at us. And the longer it takes you to kill a monster, the faster your weapon dies.

    So, unless you PoF your weapon to 255/255 durability every time... Those weapons will break. Alot.

    Example- I went to TC to try Imbuing out. Imbued a katana with these props.

    Repond Slayer
    40 HSL
    30 SSI
    15 HCI
    40 DI

    Ring and Brace were the same.
    20 DI
    8 LMC
    10 HCI
    10 DCI

    After suit was made I had.

    35 HCI
    45 DCI
    100 DI (Primer on Arms added)
    39 LMC (Rune Beetle Carapace and arms with 8 lmc added)
    30 SSI

    Typical Sampire Temp
    100 Necro
    120 swords
    120 tactics
    120 bushido
    100 chiv
    120 parry
    40 Focus

    Resists were:
    70 67 70 70 70 (In Vamp form)

    First test. Vermin Horde Champ Spawn - Fel Despise.

    After killing coon, my weapons durability was at 0/243.

    Repaired it and due to failures, it became 239/239.

    Test 2 - Cavern of Discard in the Abyss.

    After taking down all three mini-bosses, the katana was at 0/143.



    Needless to say, these weapons won't last long.

    The slayer property and ability to add DI or whatever onto equipment will
    -not- allow players to powergame any more than they already could.
    And in any case, whats the differance between the player with a weapon imbued, and the one with the kryss crafted from a verite hammer? Nothing.
     
  23. mjolnir131

    mjolnir131 Guest

    well we have had the 300 cap for several years now and the game has not ended, those the complain about skill vs item have ussually neighter .you could take the top outfited ABC and give it to them and they could still not fly it.. becouse it does take alot of skill to run the High Damage output templets,yes they could be killing higher level monsters than they are now but would be no where close to what the templet is capable of doing.

    Nobody is forcing anybody to have any templet. it's your right to have a templet that it takes a group of 3 to take down an ice feind or artic ogre lord that's your play style so enjoy it but don't claim it's the items doing it for the other guy they help yes but it still takes skill skills your not willing to learn.
     
  24. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    Yes, that was my feedback in beta.

    It makes no sense to have the super slayers being rare runic rolls if you can just add them later through imbuing. I was hoping they would have restricted imbuing on slayers. So at least you'd have to burn enough runics to make an elemental slayer - not just click Imbue Elemental.
     
  25. Cloak&Dagger

    Cloak&Dagger Guest


    Uhm....you quoted me, and stated you disagree with something, but really you agreed with me, :p. Might be a misquote or perhaps the disagreement was not to me, but i said if you want to play a powerhouse then do so, if not then don't, and gave an example of such a "non-powerhouse" template ;)
     
  26. Warpig Inc

    Warpig Inc Babbling Loonie
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    Burned 23 runics so far copper to dull makeing things to unravel. Not one super slayer. Be lucky to get a dragon or ogre. But there is the 120 luck and the 25 HCI or DCI and resist up to 18% so far. Have a but load of boomerangs with 30%SSI so far to slap the super slayer to. And I'll let it leak here once that the ringmail mine gloves can be imbued with LRC and mage armor now. Another is that practice weapons can be imbued. I'm out .......... [ImQ]
     
  27. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    Meh, I think people already have thier slayers anyway. I know I do, and I'm poor.
     
  28. mjolnir131

    mjolnir131 Guest

    i never get alot of slayers from dull coppers i see more with shadow and more still with gold i wounder if it's weighted a bit
     
  29. bumblefutz

    bumblefutz Guest

    I brought this up eons ago before I left the game last time, and got shouted down by people who think the only melee templates should be paladin, samurai paladin, and necromancer paladin.
     
  30. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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  31. Lord Frodo

    Lord Frodo Grand Poobah
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    OK you gonna make a Super Slayer.
    Super slayer is 130pts
    SSI 30% 110pts
    DI 50 100pts

    so far you have 340 out of 500 points. what else you want on it? And the cost in resources is already high as it is. Trying for that 4th imbue is really gonna cost you. What HCI 15 is 130 pts and will cost you more than it is worth.

    This would be one very expensive wep. that you prob. never make back in gold resources gathered from it.
     
  32. Pinco

    Pinco UOEC Modder
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    with my archer I repair the bow 2 times per day.
    each time I must use 3-4 repair deed because bowcraft fail a lot to repair, so the bow lose 4-5 point of durability.
    8-10 durability lost per day mean that the bow has a medium life of 30 days.

    Now for make with imbuing a nice slayer bow we need to spare lot of resources for something that in 30 days will break forever...
     
  33. Silverbird

    Silverbird Slightly Crazed
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    Cheap slayer bows? try to imbue a juka slayer. *g*

    As for weird melee-templates ... I am a specialist for such. I am having fun somtimes with my necro-dexxer (no vam-/sampire ... a true necro):
    - swords, ana, tact, heal, necro, ss, some focus
    If I could add more skills to her, i probably would go for sw, mysticism and magic resist.
    My equipment is not that good, but I enjoy that char and I use slayers were I am able to.
     
  34. Goldberg-Chessy

    Goldberg-Chessy Crazed Zealot
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    You my friend seem to have template issues :(

    If your main objective is to slay critters then your adjust your template accordingly and should probably include Chivalry & Bushido.
    If your main objective is Pvp then you may not want both Chivalry & Bushido on your Warrior and you most definitely dont want it on your Mage unless he is a freaky hybrid.

    Its not rocket science and it has basically been a part of Uo "structure" since day 1.

    Nobody should be able to play 1 template that is optimal in all situations. And every Warrior template/combination does not need to have an equal Mage/Necro counterpart.

    Lastly, not being at "the top tier" does not make anyone or anything "useless"
    Anybody can put together a basic and specific template with average gear and do quite well with some smarts & experience.
    Unfortunately too many people dont understand this and are simply obsessed with the haves and have nots in this world. Our friend Popps could enlighten you more about this though.

    Peace :)
     
  35. mjolnir131

    mjolnir131 Guest

    LS just beats the crap out of a bow.
     
  36. Trebr Drab

    Trebr Drab Guest

    Yes I do.

    My question is why does it have to be that way. This is WoW style, not UO.

    No it hasn't. You were here on day 1 I believe, or soon after. You know that there were no "templates" then, you could gain in any and all skills you wanted. Anatomy didn't affect combat. Tactics affected hit chance. There was nothing that gave you 200% increased damage. The best was a max of 20% from strength + a max of 25 points for Vanquishing. The best weapon was the Halberd, doing 4-48 damage, for an average of 26 damage. Add 6 (20% for strength) and 25 (for Vanquishing) and you get a little over a 100% increase. That's the best one could do. But there was no limitations on skill sets, no requirements of that sort to gimp a character, making all but the one skill set uncompetitive.

    How about everyone having some chance, at least a minimal success? How about a variety of templates that work? I'm talking about the top tier here, where right now if you don't have the specific templates you can't even get looting rights.

    Sure, if you want to be a peon.

    See, you are looking at this from the wrong perspective. I want a more rounded game, one that doesn't have specific elite skill sets that dominate others. It's not any obsession with haves and have-nots, it's a desire to not have that set in stone.

    And I'm somewhat surprised, since not only you, but your close friends, have often argued this same thing many times in the past.