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Small Rant

Discussion in 'UO Siege Perilous' started by Spiffykeen, Dec 3, 2014.

  1. Spiffykeen

    Spiffykeen Seasoned Veteran
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    So, I see people posting about how horrible it's been since they opened up Siege to additional housing. Just God awful apparently! Well, I started playing UO in January of '98. I lived on Atlantic. I have two houses chock full of memories, that I essentially pay for each month. But let's face it, no one I played with back then plays anymore, and the people on Atlantic are mostly a bunch of spamming troglodytes. When housing opened up here I waited a few weeks to make sure the system worked, and my years of work on atl wouldn't go to crap because of lousy code. I came to siege on July 2nd, 2013. Since then, I've been running vendors, logging in daily, and contributing to the community by way of spending some of my time recruiting new players into NEW2.

    So, why the rant? Because when I hear about how horrible it's been since the prodo players came and placed houses, it feels a lot like being crapped all over! What exactly is so bad? Yeah, there are dirt plots around, there are also castles and keeps everywhere with owners I have never seen or heard from in a year and a half. Whats the problem? You can't place close enough to a moongate or dungeon entrance anymore, and you have to run a few more screens? Well you are playing siege....

    I also see fingers pointing at Freja, for promoting the idea. Seems to me that Freja is one of the few people who have stuck around and not gone on a 2-10 year break over the life of the shard. People come and piss and moan about how the shard is not what it used to be. Well log the hell in and make an appearance!

    There's a band I like called Gogol Bordello, they have song that goes, "There were never any good old days, they are today, they are tomorrow. It's a stupid thing we say, cursing tomorrow with sorrow"
     
  2. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    *chuckles*
     
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  3. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    I had a point typed out, then I backspaced over it. This is what was left.
     
  4. Tyrath

    Tyrath Babbling Loonie
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    I don't really see anyone saying it is horrible, in fact I see most liking the the second house that are commenting. I also see many who believe the system should be tweaked to motivate those dirt plots to log in or let he house go so someone more active can place in a spot more desirable than the middle of nowhere malas. It does not effect me personally one way or the other. I have my Zento house close enough to the moongate. And that house has a tele tile that leads to the island hub with tiles to all of the other houses. I would also not have a problem tagging my houses on Origin, Legends, and Atlantic as secondary houses and being required to log in there every 30-90 days. The prospect of a couple dozen castles falling would be a great motivation to log onto those shards. The only danger would be if I did not care enough about those plots to make an appearance now and then to refresh them. To be honest I had forgotten I even had a castle on legends until I was collecting xmas junk there the other day..........
     
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  5. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Sage
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    I feel like I've just been chewed out by my little sister. :rolleyes:
     
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  6. ApollyonSP

    ApollyonSP Seasoned Veteran

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    The dirt plots look like garbage and should be removed, they're bad for siege perilous, PERIOD.
     
  7. Uvtha

    Uvtha Grand Poobah
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    I really think its only few people who are up in arms about it, many of which are recent returns just recently finding out about the change, so that's why it got brought up again.

    Philosophically I am very against the change. I think it just furthers the perception of siege as a "vacation" or "second class" shard. I feel that if you want to play here, you should play here, just like any other shard.

    Practically I understand the change. The population issue is serious, as the less players you have the less fun the game is for a lot of different reasons, from the economy working well (lots of shops, being able to find what you want to buy) to simple friend making.

    From what I have seen the damage has been minimal. There are still scads of max storage house spots. Most of the "good" spots were already taken, but there are still plenty of C+ to B level areas with room. Yes there are too many dirt plots that will never be used around, but whatever. I just wish they would put grass tiles down before leaving to never return.

    Also I think the impact has been minimal. We HAVE gotten some good players because of it (even if many are just part timers) but the population level is basically the same.

    All in all its a fairly lateral change. I would really prefer requiring a once a month refresh on second homes (on any shard) but it's no huge deal.

    I also don't think it's fair to "blame" it on any one supporter, the community at the time was more pro than con, which is why it happened in the first place.
     
    Thegirlyouloved2hate likes this.
  8. Kattasrophe

    Nothing But Trouble

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    Honestly, what has been done is done. 2nd house On Siege and another on a prodo shard? Its here.. It is most likely not leaving. Even if someone has houses on a different shards on Siege there is some of us, *points at Talia and I* who have stayed on Siege Perilous rarely ever visited a different shard when we logged in. I think of my houses on a different shard as memories. Memories of things I have done in my past that I would like to remember. I'm sure everyone has a memory they would love to hold on to forever. Let's embrace what we have. We are a unique shard.
     
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  9. Spiffykeen

    Spiffykeen Seasoned Veteran
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    I guess I should have mentioned that I, too, am in favor of making people deal with these houses occasionally. If it's a dirt plot with nothing locked down, it should go poof after awhile...

    I had more of a point, but I see an ad at the bottom of my screen for Russian Brides.... Beautiful Russian Brides.... now either my husband has forgotten to browse in private, and I should be worried about my marriage... or RonBron got some splaining to do....
     
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  10. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Don't worried for me, I have broad shoulders, I can take it. I do have my opinions, alot times, people can't agree with me, that's ok.
    In this case, Mesanna did listen to me, BUT she logged on to the shard and asked in chat if we really wanted this, just like she did with a few other changes. The answers she got from the shard was yes.
    I have seen so many players join NEW2 and NEW in the past. They tryed to make it, they lived in a chest or 2 at a friends house or at one of my houses but it was never the same as their own house. Most did not make it.
    Now we have few members in NEW2 but most of the ones I see place a house do make it, they finish NEW2 and they find a guild. I see alot, who are still active Siege players. Without the second house, I doubt they would had made it.

    It's very hard for some players to come back, they miss the more active Siege we had in the past and they want the game they left 6-10 years ago. It's not the same game, it had changed alot. To them it look bad but maybe they should try to play the game we have now instead of complaining of changes made when they was gone.
    Sure they have all right to their opinion but just like with my wishes, Devs do not just listen to a few players but to the whole shard.
     
  11. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Really? Or are you just reading between the lines of some of our posts? God awful? Nope.

    Does the current suck, yes, it allows full size houses to be place on Siege by players who may only visit to trade holiday gifts. The other night when the new Christmas gifts were released I spent some time at the Luna and Skara banks (snooping packs for goodies of course), but I spoke with quite a few of those players. I asked if they had houses here, 80% said yes...do you know how many of them play here regularly? Zero! They log in to collect gift and trade them, and then log back in to their other shards to not return until the next gift release.

    So in the mean time, the shard is filling up with players...but many of them spend almost no time at all here.

    So what's my problem? The system that was designed (with player help) to increase the shard population has done just the opposite, it's created a way to prevent actual Siege players new or old to own a home in a spot by someone who never plays, but will have active accounts until UO dies off.

    I get it, I've been away from the game for a while, I understand there is a lot for me to learn...but I am learning, slowly but surely. All I am doing with posting on these types of topics is doing what I've always done when I had active UO accounts...PROMOTE SIEGE...la
     
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  12. Spiffykeen

    Spiffykeen Seasoned Veteran
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  13. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Simple. Game forums are designed for players to discuss topics. Stratics has the added bonus to be watched by the game developers.

    That thread was created because I had a thought about a system that Siege players have no access to. I thought it would be fun to jump between two shards. It's not like either shard is going to have a mass exodus of players if they did make that addition.

    What it might do is draw a few more production shard players to Siege. While it might not be many, it would be a way to expand Siege.

    In regards to the public discussions Freja and I have, I highly doubt someone is going to not come to Siege if two players have a few back and forths about certain subjects. To be honest, I don't think our current beliefs on secondary housing is that far off. That being said, it was a bad system when it was being discussed, and it's a bad (for Siege) system as it was implemented. Sure I wasn't here and it was installed.

    I can live with it if it doesn't change, but you never know if by my resurrecting the topic couldn't get it modified. Again...the discussion of the topic does nothing to harm the promotion of Siege. All it does is show that I am passionate about the shard I play on and hope the devs will listen to players that have opinions and offer an opportunity to discuss the issue...la
     
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  14. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Sage
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    I think the point is still being missed regarding this topic. Those of us who have returned to find the housing change in place are not demanding that the feature be removed or for anybody's house to vanish without warning. That is the impression I'm getting from everybody who is in favor of the second house placement.

    I can only speak for myself. But all that I would like to see is a 30 day timer requiring a refresh on secondary homes regardless of which shard they are on. That's it. People are still allowed to place a second home on. Siege or on a prodo shard if they already have a home here. But that second home will require a monthly refresh.

    Nobody is up in arms. What's done is done. I'm sure a little more thought could have been put in to it before allowing Mesana to implement it. But as has already been pointed out; it is not my place to criticize as I wasn't here when the decision was made.
     
  15. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    No Spyder, you was not there. If I have to choose between having a little hard finding the right spot and have someone to play with, vs being on an empty shard with large free spots, I know what to choose. It's not like you can't place a house or even a keep if you keep eyes open.

    Rico, I know you do care for Siege and I know you did a lot to promote Siege in the past and you was good at it. At the time, we could not get some limit to the second houses and the shard was dying. It really did give us a lot of new players and many of them are still here, Talia and Katt is just 2 of them.

    It is still possible to tweak it, my favorite way to do it to allow all players to own 2 houses, still on different shards but include all the shards. That will take a little more coding but will solve the problem.
    A player who do not play here will move his dirt plot to a second shard he do play on and only Siege players will place here.
     
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  16. Tyrath

    Tyrath Babbling Loonie
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    There were A lot of people Freja that said they would like the second house so long as either the size of the house were limited or there was a refresh requirement. Overall yes pretty much everyone wanted the second house option, including myself. Now that its been out a while and we are seeing its ups and downs it could use some tweaking and those refresh or size limitations shouls be revisted. For people who actually log into siege even part time the suggestions would have ZERO impact on them.......... BECAUSE THEY ARE LOGGING ON AND PLAYING THE SHARD. The folks who don't log on are really out nothing other than losing a house on a shard they don't play on.
     
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  17. Spiffykeen

    Spiffykeen Seasoned Veteran
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    I swear, I do like you Rico! Thanks for the answer!

    I should have realized this would restart(continue) the secondary housing debate, but I guess my main gripe was people complaining about no one being around when they don't take the time to be around themselves. Let's face it, this shard is chock full of introverts. Myself included. You have to be willing to put yourself out there and raise a little dust so that people can see the activity. The inactivity is not all on the people who came over. I know those people who own the castles that don't play are still paying for them, but I also know that there are people who can get in touch with them and maybe encourage them to log in for an event or something....
     
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  18. Troop_Gil

    Troop_Gil Journeyman

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    I like the second house scenario. I placed a few houses on other shards just for the heck of it. I play on Siege.
     
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  19. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Sage
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    I have two homes and I'm completely content with their locations.

    I don't know much clearer I can make that. I simply think that the secondary housing needs to be tweaked, requiring a 30 day refresh. Period. That's it.

    I have no idea why you keep insisting that I'm rallying for better home placement. I already conceded that that was going to be impossible to remedy now.
     
  20. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Sage
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    I'm quoting simply for emphasis. I have no idea why Freja either doesn't understand this point or just refuses to.
     
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  21. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Because 2-3 old players comes back and feel something need to changes, Devs should not just jump and changes it. It's about what is best for the shard and what the shard want, not what I or 2-3 returning players want. It also have to do with the resources the Devs do have to put in this. I think they used this resources well in the last 2 Publics instead of using all their resources on fixing something, that is not a issue right now.
    Good to see, you two can hold in hand and agree that Freja is bad.
     
  22. Tyrath

    Tyrath Babbling Loonie
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    Looks to me like most folks would like a refresh of some kind. How is it good for the shard to have a bunch of forgotten houses? ANd nope not an issue for you....... How many castles do you have 2-3? Not an issue for me either but this is exactly why some of us wanted the refresh or atleast a limit or designated area for these second houses. Really not seeing what your major malfunction is with a very simple requirement that the house owners actually log onto the shard now and then. Again second house was a good idea, and very poor execution due to the very thing we are debating now.
     
  23. Tyrath

    Tyrath Babbling Loonie
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    Looks to me like most folks would like a refresh of some kind. How is it good for the shard to have a bunch of forgotten houses? ANd nope not an issue for you....... How many castles do you have 2-3? Not an issue for me either but this is exactly why some of us wanted the refresh or atleast a limit or designated area for these second houses. Really not seeing what your major malfunction is with a very simple requirement that the house owners actually log onto the shard now and then. Again second house was a good idea, and very poor execution due to the very thing we are debating now.
     
  24. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Sage
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    I counted about 10 veteran players during RtB.. but I may have miscounted people's second and third accounts. Who said the Devs are jumping on anything? This has been nothing but a discussion anyways.

    But according to you it is about what you want. We are just tossing ideas out there. How are a bunch of dirt plots "good for the shard"? And how does it hurt the shard if homes decay if inactive players who haven't logged in since placing those dirt plots don't refresh them?

    The last two publishes are fine. And we're not asking the developers for anything yet. We're simply tossing around ideas about tweaking the system a little. A 30 day refresh will do have zero effect on you or anybody who is even casually playing Siege.

    You're not bad. You're confusing. You still have yet to explain why you are so passionate about keeping things exactly as they are now. Everybody agrees that the state of the population is poo poo. With the exception of GIL's extremely generous festival forthcoming, I have yet to see any sort of Server gathering event being announced in "Safe Haven".

    I and I'm sure everybody else are not attacking you Freja. You just react like you have some sort of agenda that we're not aware of. It's like we're handing you a million dollars and you're telling us that we're out to get you.
     
  25. Thegirlyouloved2hate

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    From a outside point of view that is NOT clouded in over-wrought emotions....she does not appear to have any agenda , you however seem to be "coloring her [point of view] with your emotions. In these kind of situations it is best not not let your feelings run away with you and your judgement, other wise you come off as "Hysterical " and then it looks like you have a axe to grind.to the outside observer.

    Shy De' Lairesse
    Cherish Firekiss.
     
  26. Thegirlyouloved2hate

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    Freja is from another Country, I dare say you would have a time of it if you were playing a game where her native language was the language that you had to speak and comprehend. Could you even do it as well, I say she deserves credit and not ridicule. After all I thought personal attacks were against the TOS and insulting her ability to think is doing just that. Others may find it palatable to make personal attacks I find it demeaning ,offensive and downright Childish.

    Shy De' Lairesse
    Cherish Firekiss
     
  27. ApollyonSP

    ApollyonSP Seasoned Veteran

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    Looks like I was right about english not being her 1st language. And that's not a personal attack when it's true. It's called insight. And as far as me learning a second language, it would be a piece of cake. Fortunately though, english is the only language worth knowing in this world now. All the other ones are obsolete.

    BOOYAAAAAAAAA
     
  28. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Can we get back on topic. I do agree, if we do get more players, we will need something done. Choosing one house as primary house and one as second house would work fine for me. 30 days refresh timer would work fine to me for the second house but it would not take care of houses/castles, that is only paid for 3 months of a year and never used as they would still be set to primary. at least set the decay timer for houses on inactive account to 30 days too.
     
  29. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Sage
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    Simply put.. 30 day timer if the house is secondary. This was all that was being proposed from the beginning.

    As for the language barrier thing. I lived in Denmark (where Freja lives) and everybody speaks fluent English (British) there.
     
  30. Spiffykeen

    Spiffykeen Seasoned Veteran
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    Can we stop talking about language? I speak hick and watered down Spanish. It don't matter two cacahuates
     
  31. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Yes the young ones do, but my next birthday say 60 years and I do not speak fluent English, I write English as I started UO with a dictonary in left hand and I have alot I want to say, special about the game so I learned what my school thought impossible to learn me. However I do not speak English, this stupid words do not sound right, when I try to speak it :)
     
  32. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    The part you are missing is the view that returning players have. You have basically dismissed our opinions as wrong, for the simple reason that we've been away from the game.

    What you seem to forget is that our view point will be very similar to that of other returning players...and that is where UO and Siege specifically will grow. UO is not going to ever be the best new shiny online game that draws people who have never heard of it. UO's best chance to rebound is to make attempts to get former players to return.

    Yes, you've been playing this game and on Siege for a very long time, but you've become jaded and blind to some of the problems the shard has. Maybe if you or other old timers had stepped away from the game for a little, you'd better understand our point of view, but because you haven't, you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss our opinions and ideas...la
     
  33. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
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    Naeh, it's just, that we had this debate already long ago. Your opinion is not wrong but it's wrong to blame us for choices we made, when you took a long break.
    About the houses, the deal was, right now, they could afford time to allow a second house on Siege then see how it would go. I understood it the way, that they would make a better solution later, when they can afford the time. I too wanted some limit to the second houses but the choice we got, was a second house or no second house.

    I really don't see what stop new players from returning. It was not easier to get a castle before this changes. It may have been a little easier to find a keep plot but you still had to wait for one to drop.
    I have all right to disagree. I don't dismiss your ideas but a lot do come back and it's a different game than they left years ago. Sometimes it take a while to get use to the changes and understand the reason for them. We had been here, struggled to keep the shard alive. It had been hard and if you feel it's dead now, then trust me, it was worse before the second house.

    What about my ideas about getting life back to the forest and around the npc and player towns, are you also going to blame me for the new global loot, the traders quest, the hunter challenge and what they else may come with to help making the players using the overland?
     
  34. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Not sure I've complained about that ever, so there is no need for you to get your panties in a bunch.

    My primary issue is with Siege housing, and by the by, it has nothing to do with allowing players to place castles. I've never owned one nor have I ever wanted to. I'd much rather design my own home...la
     
  35. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    *smiles* We had a lot of discussion on the second house on Siege. Sorry ya missed it.
     
  36. TheScoundrelRico

    TheScoundrelRico Stratics Legend
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    Whatever the discussion was, the implementation was a FAIL...la
     
  37. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
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    Your attitude is a "fail". Heck, the house/storage part has been answered. No reason not to play Siege now.

    Now how to get those house holders interested in playing here is the next task. Stop looking back, pancakes and crying about what ever it is you are going on about.

    You are a legend. It says so right there. I get it. What sort of attitude you choose to bring says a lot. I am trying to embrace a more positive outlook on my life.

    Welcome back.
     
  38. TheScoundrelRico

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    Ummm, I'm not looking back, I am looking at the shard today and the problems it has. To know how to correct a problem, you need to understand why it's a problem in the first place.

    As far as pancakes and crying, HA!

    Trust me, it's not pancakes nor crying, just a simple discussion with some debating in it...la
     
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  39. kelmo

    kelmo Old and in the way
    Professional Stratics Veteran Alumni Dread Lord

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  40. ApollyonSP

    ApollyonSP Seasoned Veteran

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    The whole point of this discussion is that the 2nd housing on SP did ***NOT*** bring in many new players, perhaps just a few. It FAILED, just like many other ideas.

    So now we're back at square one, except this time, the shard is littered with empty dirt plots all over. Now we have to clean up a mess.

    It's a simple fix. Make the 2nd houses have a refresh timer, say, 1-3 months login. That would destroy most these barren houses, good.


    What's next? We need to figure out other methods to entice, AND KEEP, new players on the shard. Enticing people to come here is one challenge. Having them STAY is the most difficult challenge of all, especially with all the egotistical veterans around here, who resist change, and despite what they claim, are hindering the shard rather than helping. Think about this, if you VETS were right, if you had the good advice and ideas, then we wouldn't be having these problems in the first place.

    So, automatically, you're wrong. New ideas, new people, new population is needed.

    I support the new players and ideas.
     
    Tyrath likes this.
  41. Tyrath

    Tyrath Babbling Loonie
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    The castles held by 3 month payers is a totally differnt issue. Comparing the problems with 2nd house option and the 3 month payers is apples and oranges. I agree it is a issue but one not likely to be fixed since those are important people on the respective shards they 3 month pay to hold real estate. Personally if it were my show House decay one week after the paid sub ended.


    Well said and much truth.
     
  42. Tyrath

    Tyrath Babbling Loonie
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    WOW it does not take much to offend you.
     
  43. SpyderBite

    SpyderBite Sage
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    Let it go. 12 years ago we couldn't have enough change. Today it seems Siege is perfect the way it is. So be it.
     
  44. Thegirlyouloved2hate

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    I actually have a very thick skin when it comes to me, as opposed to many I have pvped and faction on very hard core servers since I left SP and that means thick skinned with you are pvping against top guilds that have huge egos and huge asshats for members..

    When it comes to respecting my Elders and have some sensitivity to Freja's situation of staying on SP ALL of these past years. I have respect for her, the greatest respect of her staying and trying to keep SP alive while many others of us simply and honestly put Abandoned ship. in 2002 or 03 I was out of here like a shot....I wanted to pvp on servers with 1000-1500 ppl per day so I left. She had faith and stayed.

    You want to insult me fine go ahead f&*K lets get on skype and try your best, but when it comes to her I have a soft spot and a Sh&^t load of respect.

    Shy De' Lairesse
    Cherish Firekiss
     
  45. GarthGrey

    GarthGrey Crazed Zealot
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    For one thing I didn't insult Freja, I simply stated a fact that she doesn't speak for everyone on Siege. There I just repeated it again, if that offends YOU that's you're problem.
     
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  46. Spiffykeen

    Spiffykeen Seasoned Veteran
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    This was my rant dammit! I said to quit saying 2nd housing was a fail because I'm lumped in there! And lighten up for gods sake!
     
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  47. Tyrath

    Tyrath Babbling Loonie
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    I don't think I have insulted anyone, as far as insulting you........ Why bother when you degrade yourself more than I could ever hope to ;)
     
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  48. FrejaSP

    FrejaSP Queen of The Outlaws
    Professional Stratics Veteran Stratics Legend Campaign Patron The DarkOutlaws, TDO

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    Don't worried, I did not feel insulted at all. Lets stop speaking about me :p
     
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  49. Thegirlyouloved2hate

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    It was not directed at you, but feel free to behave in whatever manner you choose.
     
  50. Thegirlyouloved2hate

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    That also was not directed at you but you please do feel free to be who you are.