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Smoke bombs and hiding need nerf?

Discussion in 'UHall' started by imported_Splup, Apr 10, 2008.

  1. I like the fact that there's many kind of character to play. What I don't like is that when Im fighting with stealtharcher, he/she can hide just few tiles away from me. It's very frustrating, since killing stealther alone is almost impossible. They usually use petals, so using poison doesn't keep them visible. Dismounting is no help, since they just use ninjitsu form.

    Stealth archers can choose when they fight, and it's ok. But what is not ok is that they can also stop the fight the second their enemy is getting upperhand. Choosing when to fight is alright, but choosing when you stop the fight isn't. I think one should not be able to hide/use smokebomb if there's a character attacking you on same screen.

    Opinions?
     
  2. I like the fact that there's many kind of character to play. What I don't like is that when Im fighting with stealtharcher, he/she can hide just few tiles away from me. It's very frustrating, since killing stealther alone is almost impossible. They usually use petals, so using poison doesn't keep them visible. Dismounting is no help, since they just use ninjitsu form.

    Stealth archers can choose when they fight, and it's ok. But what is not ok is that they can also stop the fight the second their enemy is getting upperhand. Choosing when to fight is alright, but choosing when you stop the fight isn't. I think one should not be able to hide/use smokebomb if there's a character attacking you on same screen.

    Opinions?
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    But what is not ok is that they can also stop the fight the second their enemy is getting upperhand.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Agree. I am a stealther, and ive had a gm stealther since the skill existed (yeah, i gmed it in one loooong session the day it came out :p) and I agree, the main thing that makes stealth so powerful is that you can now hide when in combat.
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    But what is not ok is that they can also stop the fight the second their enemy is getting upperhand.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Agree. I am a stealther, and ive had a gm stealther since the skill existed (yeah, i gmed it in one loooong session the day it came out :p) and I agree, the main thing that makes stealth so powerful is that you can now hide when in combat.
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Well, look at it this way. If they're hidden, they're not killing you either [​IMG]

    If they don't have the balls to finish a fight they're not worth fighting in the first place. It's no different to house hiders and GZ huggers. Personally I'd leave them to it, it's only fun for a stealther while someone plays hide and seek with him.

    There are ways to kill hidden chars, but you do need to have the necessary skills to cast spells like wither and meteor swarm etc. That doesn't mean the stealther deserves a further nerf, just that you don't have the right skill to do it yourself.

    Wenchy
     
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Well, look at it this way. If they're hidden, they're not killing you either [​IMG]

    If they don't have the balls to finish a fight they're not worth fighting in the first place. It's no different to house hiders and GZ huggers. Personally I'd leave them to it, it's only fun for a stealther while someone plays hide and seek with him.

    There are ways to kill hidden chars, but you do need to have the necessary skills to cast spells like wither and meteor swarm etc. That doesn't mean the stealther deserves a further nerf, just that you don't have the right skill to do it yourself.

    Wenchy
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Smoke bombs can be looted, they have to be made, stealthers can be revealed by various methods including by those with zero skills to do so, there are a lot of skill points needed to be invested to make a stealther, ...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You cannot loot the smoke bombs if you can't kill the stealther.

    I agree stealthing is not overpowered, but the abilty to "run" from a battle if you are loosing, with no way to counter it SUCKS!! UO will eventually be Siege, with 90% stealth chars yappng about how they rule, when they really just pop out to try and gank or res kill, wow, that is really fun.
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <blockquote><hr>

    Smoke bombs can be looted, they have to be made, stealthers can be revealed by various methods including by those with zero skills to do so, there are a lot of skill points needed to be invested to make a stealther, ...

    [/ QUOTE ]

    You cannot loot the smoke bombs if you can't kill the stealther.

    I agree stealthing is not overpowered, but the abilty to "run" from a battle if you are loosing, with no way to counter it SUCKS!! UO will eventually be Siege, with 90% stealth chars yappng about how they rule, when they really just pop out to try and gank or res kill, wow, that is really fun.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Aye stealth ninjas with smokebombs needs to be looked into!

    And Fox, no wonder you defend them when you play it yourself.
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Aye stealth ninjas with smokebombs needs to be looked into!

    And Fox, no wonder you defend them when you play it yourself.
     
  11. jack flash uk

    jack flash uk Crazed Zealot
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    how aobut we nerf EVERYTHING and fight with sticks, will you be happy?

    ninjas are bad news, they are supposed to be, whats the point of having them if they cannot use their skill

    so i take it you get your butt kicks regular by them and you want to stop them from using thier template, so they become jsut a warrior, but we have them already


    if you can;t fight them go somewhere else

    sorted
     
  12. jack flash uk

    jack flash uk Crazed Zealot
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    how aobut we nerf EVERYTHING and fight with sticks, will you be happy?

    ninjas are bad news, they are supposed to be, whats the point of having them if they cannot use their skill

    so i take it you get your butt kicks regular by them and you want to stop them from using thier template, so they become jsut a warrior, but we have them already


    if you can;t fight them go somewhere else

    sorted
     
  13. Mage Meteor swarm, EQ, poison field etc. etc. but meantime mage casts any of those spells with FC 2 stealther as already moved enought to get out of range. If mage hits him, he just takes few steps and is hidden again.

    And to that "not worth fighting". I agree with you, but it's hard not to fight when they attack you everytime they see they got a chance. Ex. ur attacked by bunch of mobs or fighting someone else. That is their right and it's ok.

    What bugs me is that if I beat those mobs and get upperhand against sneak attacker he/she can still escape anytime he wants.
     
  14. Mage Meteor swarm, EQ, poison field etc. etc. but meantime mage casts any of those spells with FC 2 stealther as already moved enought to get out of range. If mage hits him, he just takes few steps and is hidden again.

    And to that "not worth fighting". I agree with you, but it's hard not to fight when they attack you everytime they see they got a chance. Ex. ur attacked by bunch of mobs or fighting someone else. That is their right and it's ok.

    What bugs me is that if I beat those mobs and get upperhand against sneak attacker he/she can still escape anytime he wants.
     
  15. Chameleon

    Chameleon Guest

    Aren't Ninjas supposed to attack and hide? Well.. that's what the NPC Ninjas are doing right?

    What about adding tracking? detect hidden? or magery? on your templete.
    Not sure but having high SSI helps? Anyway, ninjas can fail a smokebomb.

    Maybe it's the petals that needs some attention. [​IMG]
     
  16. Chameleon

    Chameleon Guest

    Aren't Ninjas supposed to attack and hide? Well.. that's what the NPC Ninjas are doing right?

    What about adding tracking? detect hidden? or magery? on your templete.
    Not sure but having high SSI helps? Anyway, ninjas can fail a smokebomb.

    Maybe it's the petals that needs some attention. [​IMG]
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hehe. As soon as they use a Smoke Bomb, just throw a Greater Conflagration pot on the spot they dissapeared. Highly unlikely they would be able to stealth out of the radius before it hits, and it continues to hit them, revealing them.
    That really pisses them off and catches them off guard. I have a UOA Macro for using a Greater Conflagration Potion. Although, you can only use them once every 20 secs.

    Plus, they're other ways to go into Hiding while being close to an aggressor. I've had a Stealth Fencer since before Tram, and when AoS came out with Specials, i was one of the very few people on my shard capable of using Shadowstrike. Upon successfully hitting an opponent with Shadowstrike, it instantly hides you. Plus it can be spammed, just takes some Mana.
     
  18. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Hehe. As soon as they use a Smoke Bomb, just throw a Greater Conflagration pot on the spot they dissapeared. Highly unlikely they would be able to stealth out of the radius before it hits, and it continues to hit them, revealing them.
    That really pisses them off and catches them off guard. I have a UOA Macro for using a Greater Conflagration Potion. Although, you can only use them once every 20 secs.

    Plus, they're other ways to go into Hiding while being close to an aggressor. I've had a Stealth Fencer since before Tram, and when AoS came out with Specials, i was one of the very few people on my shard capable of using Shadowstrike. Upon successfully hitting an opponent with Shadowstrike, it instantly hides you. Plus it can be spammed, just takes some Mana.
     
  19. <blockquote><hr>

    how aobut we nerf EVERYTHING and fight with sticks, will you be happy?

    ninjas are bad news, they are supposed to be, whats the point of having them if they cannot use their skill

    so i take it you get your butt kicks regular by them and you want to stop them from using thier template, so they become jsut a warrior, but we have them already


    if you can;t fight them go somewhere else

    sorted

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I get my butt kicked kinda rarely by them (my template is pretty decend against dexers) but I still think that it's ok that they can choose to start fight with very good situation for them (other guy is busy or low health), but I don't think they should be able to hide from battle if they are losing the fight even thou they started it from very good position.
     
  20. <blockquote><hr>

    how aobut we nerf EVERYTHING and fight with sticks, will you be happy?

    ninjas are bad news, they are supposed to be, whats the point of having them if they cannot use their skill

    so i take it you get your butt kicks regular by them and you want to stop them from using thier template, so they become jsut a warrior, but we have them already


    if you can;t fight them go somewhere else

    sorted

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I get my butt kicked kinda rarely by them (my template is pretty decend against dexers) but I still think that it's ok that they can choose to start fight with very good situation for them (other guy is busy or low health), but I don't think they should be able to hide from battle if they are losing the fight even thou they started it from very good position.
     
  21. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thing is though, we already have passive reveal and I didn't realise about the conflag pots, but those too, with spells or the option to train detect and reveal. There's a fine line between balancing and castrating, and if you're using 220 skill to be sneaky, it's harsh to then be revealed by everyone and not be able to get the benefits outside of a monster spawn.

    I'm not saying stealthers should be invulnerable at all, but I feel stealthing does need a look at for the stealthers too. There is too much weight on passive reveal, to the point where I generally don't bother sneaking up if I see an elf [​IMG] I'd rather see it so that elf players could get a message like "you sense someone nearby" so they know someone is close, with a reduced chance to reveal from passive elf abilities, so there is more need to actively find and reveal players.

    Wenchy
     
  22. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thing is though, we already have passive reveal and I didn't realise about the conflag pots, but those too, with spells or the option to train detect and reveal. There's a fine line between balancing and castrating, and if you're using 220 skill to be sneaky, it's harsh to then be revealed by everyone and not be able to get the benefits outside of a monster spawn.

    I'm not saying stealthers should be invulnerable at all, but I feel stealthing does need a look at for the stealthers too. There is too much weight on passive reveal, to the point where I generally don't bother sneaking up if I see an elf [​IMG] I'd rather see it so that elf players could get a message like "you sense someone nearby" so they know someone is close, with a reduced chance to reveal from passive elf abilities, so there is more need to actively find and reveal players.

    Wenchy
     
  23. Elric_Soban

    Elric_Soban Babbling Loonie
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    He's invested Ninjitsu, hiding, and stealth to be able to do this to you. What have you invested into your template to stop him?

    -Steal his smokebombs.
    -Get ninjitsu yourself and deathstrike him - now he cant run
    -Paralyze/nerve/riding swipe, now he cant move
    -Summon a revenant on him, now he cant hide
    -Drain his mana, now he cant do that at all
    -Strangle him, now he dies a screen or 2 away

    etc. etc

    Theyve set their template up as 'hit and run'.. that's exactly what they'l do. If your template is setup as pure tank, he should be running from you every time. Unless he has better equipment. Then you're screwed regardless. Spend more on your gear. Expensive gear ftw.
     
  24. Elric_Soban

    Elric_Soban Babbling Loonie
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    He's invested Ninjitsu, hiding, and stealth to be able to do this to you. What have you invested into your template to stop him?

    -Steal his smokebombs.
    -Get ninjitsu yourself and deathstrike him - now he cant run
    -Paralyze/nerve/riding swipe, now he cant move
    -Summon a revenant on him, now he cant hide
    -Drain his mana, now he cant do that at all
    -Strangle him, now he dies a screen or 2 away

    etc. etc

    Theyve set their template up as 'hit and run'.. that's exactly what they'l do. If your template is setup as pure tank, he should be running from you every time. Unless he has better equipment. Then you're screwed regardless. Spend more on your gear. Expensive gear ftw.
     
  25. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I say leave it as it is.

    Just because a person starts a fight doesn´t mean he has to stand around dying when he realizes he´s loosing. A smoke bomb is a good way for a stealth assassin to get away just as it is supposed to be...
    Better flee and fight another day.

    It´s all about survival.
     
  26. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I say leave it as it is.

    Just because a person starts a fight doesn´t mean he has to stand around dying when he realizes he´s loosing. A smoke bomb is a good way for a stealth assassin to get away just as it is supposed to be...
    Better flee and fight another day.

    It´s all about survival.
     
  27. viper of flames

    viper of flames Journeyman
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    Are you joking ? lol Smoke bombs dont work most of the time while fighting and even pvm you fail .I have 120 stealth and I have my own set of problems.Why not Nerf the game ? If this bothers you quit the game omg every baby cries about something and then wants a nerf.Play the game the way it is because everytime someone yells UO is torn apart again.


    I say bring back the game the way UO was made and stop all of theses changes .
     
  28. viper of flames

    viper of flames Journeyman
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    Are you joking ? lol Smoke bombs dont work most of the time while fighting and even pvm you fail .I have 120 stealth and I have my own set of problems.Why not Nerf the game ? If this bothers you quit the game omg every baby cries about something and then wants a nerf.Play the game the way it is because everytime someone yells UO is torn apart again.


    I say bring back the game the way UO was made and stop all of theses changes .
     
  29. This is why I added this "Opinions?" to my starting post. I know I might bit aggressive towards some skills and then again when someone talks sense I can see their point of view.

    And now that I think off, the bugged trap boxes are the bigger problem. Usually stealtharchers have no resisting spells, but they carry bugged trapboxes to get away from paralyze (bugged trapbox is the one you can use again, again and again). I quess I need to get some of those fire potion thingys, since stealthers can stealth away fast enough to avoid magery spells.
     
  30. This is why I added this "Opinions?" to my starting post. I know I might bit aggressive towards some skills and then again when someone talks sense I can see their point of view.

    And now that I think off, the bugged trap boxes are the bigger problem. Usually stealtharchers have no resisting spells, but they carry bugged trapboxes to get away from paralyze (bugged trapbox is the one you can use again, again and again). I quess I need to get some of those fire potion thingys, since stealthers can stealth away fast enough to avoid magery spells.
     
  31. <blockquote><hr>

    Are you joking ? lol Smoke bombs dont work most of the time while fighting and even pvm you fail .I have 120 stealth and I have my own set of problems.Why not Nerf the game ? If this bothers you quit the game omg every baby cries about something and then wants a nerf.Play the game the way it is because everytime someone yells UO is torn apart again.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    You said the same thing with glacial staffs? Or with 140hp crits? I know this isnt as big problem as those were, but sometimes it's good to cry a little, atleast if it doesnt change anything it might make you just feel better for a while [​IMG]
     
  32. <blockquote><hr>

    Are you joking ? lol Smoke bombs dont work most of the time while fighting and even pvm you fail .I have 120 stealth and I have my own set of problems.Why not Nerf the game ? If this bothers you quit the game omg every baby cries about something and then wants a nerf.Play the game the way it is because everytime someone yells UO is torn apart again.


    [/ QUOTE ]

    You said the same thing with glacial staffs? Or with 140hp crits? I know this isnt as big problem as those were, but sometimes it's good to cry a little, atleast if it doesnt change anything it might make you just feel better for a while [​IMG]
     
  33. Guest

    Guest Guest

    jack flash there you go lets fight with sticks lol...

    Even jack flash dies a WHOLE lot and he is stealth archer.
    conc blows anyone? Para? Holy Light? Explo Pots?

    Usually stealth archers are total crap ive never actually seen a good one at actual pvp. Those guys can only rez kill and dismount.
     
  34. Guest

    Guest Guest

    jack flash there you go lets fight with sticks lol...

    Even jack flash dies a WHOLE lot and he is stealth archer.
    conc blows anyone? Para? Holy Light? Explo Pots?

    Usually stealth archers are total crap ive never actually seen a good one at actual pvp. Those guys can only rez kill and dismount.
     
  35. "they carry bugged trapboxes to get away from paralyze (bugged trapbox is the one you can use again, again and again)"

    There is no bug with making or using trapped boxes. They're just.....trapped boxes.

    I'd just like to know how to make one that doesn't open every time. It gets tiresome to have to continuously close the box every time it's used.
     
  36. "they carry bugged trapboxes to get away from paralyze (bugged trapbox is the one you can use again, again and again)"

    There is no bug with making or using trapped boxes. They're just.....trapped boxes.

    I'd just like to know how to make one that doesn't open every time. It gets tiresome to have to continuously close the box every time it's used.
     
  37. <blockquote><hr>


    There is no bug with making or using trapped boxes. They're just.....trapped boxes.

    I'd just like to know how to make one that doesn't open every time. It gets tiresome to have to continuously close the box every time it's used.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yes, using trapped box is not a bug, but making bugged trapped box which doesnt open so you can use it as many times as you want is.
     
  38. <blockquote><hr>


    There is no bug with making or using trapped boxes. They're just.....trapped boxes.

    I'd just like to know how to make one that doesn't open every time. It gets tiresome to have to continuously close the box every time it's used.

    [/ QUOTE ]

    Yes, using trapped box is not a bug, but making bugged trapped box which doesnt open so you can use it as many times as you want is.
     
  39. You can still use a trapped box after it's been opened and have the graphic on your screen. It's just a pain to have it blocking your screen.
     
  40. You can still use a trapped box after it's been opened and have the graphic on your screen. It's just a pain to have it blocking your screen.
     
  41. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    Hiding doesn't need a nerf, it works as intended. Maybe you're frustrations need to be nerfed. Seems whenever some player gets po'd.....p****d off, automatically this or that needs nerfing.

    Your statement represents what....a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a trillionth of a percent?

    I say deal with it.

    Hell, I do, look at the damn cheaters and scripters, they need nerfing but guess what......doofs in hell want ice water too.
     
  42. the 4th man

    the 4th man Lore Master
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    Hiding doesn't need a nerf, it works as intended. Maybe you're frustrations need to be nerfed. Seems whenever some player gets po'd.....p****d off, automatically this or that needs nerfing.

    Your statement represents what....a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a trillionth of a percent?

    I say deal with it.

    Hell, I do, look at the damn cheaters and scripters, they need nerfing but guess what......doofs in hell want ice water too.
     
  43. Samurai Empire basicly made hiding and stealth ridiculous. Ive played a stealther since T2A and it was fine before Samurai Empire. Hiding and stealth being used by a player that knows what their doing is basicly an invulnerability macro. It took a skillset that required player skill both to use and to counter and turned it into dice roll pvp. Passive detect does very little to a ranged archer and only served to destroy what remaining thieves there were on production shards. Detect hidden and tracking use to be useful skill pre samurai empire but also were nerfed at some point with the added long delay to use detect. To look at how ridiculous hiding and stealth has become just look at the percentage of players playing stealthers now and pre samurai empire. Stealth should be a means of sneaking up on someone. Not a guaranteed escape for a player that initiates a fight.
     
  44. Samurai Empire basicly made hiding and stealth ridiculous. Ive played a stealther since T2A and it was fine before Samurai Empire. Hiding and stealth being used by a player that knows what their doing is basicly an invulnerability macro. It took a skillset that required player skill both to use and to counter and turned it into dice roll pvp. Passive detect does very little to a ranged archer and only served to destroy what remaining thieves there were on production shards. Detect hidden and tracking use to be useful skill pre samurai empire but also were nerfed at some point with the added long delay to use detect. To look at how ridiculous hiding and stealth has become just look at the percentage of players playing stealthers now and pre samurai empire. Stealth should be a means of sneaking up on someone. Not a guaranteed escape for a player that initiates a fight.
     
  45. Guest

    Guest Guest

    maybe try to para them [​IMG] but yeah I think stealthers should always be nerfed. total lack of skill templates.
     
  46. Guest

    Guest Guest

    maybe try to para them [​IMG] but yeah I think stealthers should always be nerfed. total lack of skill templates.
     
  47. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The problem here who are huge is the fact that range fighting gets big bost from hiding and stealth. The curent rules are archer frendly and adpted, but are horible for thieves.
    If the abilety to be detectd was normal and if you got the skills archery or a casting skill it will lower you chanse to be detectd. That woulöd benefit thieves and real assasins.
     
  48. Guest

    Guest Guest

    The problem here who are huge is the fact that range fighting gets big bost from hiding and stealth. The curent rules are archer frendly and adpted, but are horible for thieves.
    If the abilety to be detectd was normal and if you got the skills archery or a casting skill it will lower you chanse to be detectd. That woulöd benefit thieves and real assasins.
     
  49. Flanuva101

    Flanuva101 Guest

    I actually think that Hiding and Stealth need to be enhanced. You dont want to go to 120 Stealth and 100 Hiding just to be passively revealed by someone who doesnt have any skill in detect hidden. The sad part is, this " passive" reveal is the unbalanced part. You shouldnt be 3 tiles away and reveal a stealther if you dont have points invested in detect hidden. Stealthers should be able to stealth right up to you,through you and past you without getting revealed unless you have points in detect hidden. Stealthers have to spend points to hide and stealth, why should people get to reveal with spending anything? It makes absolutely no sense.
     
  50. Flanuva101

    Flanuva101 Guest

    I actually think that Hiding and Stealth need to be enhanced. You dont want to go to 120 Stealth and 100 Hiding just to be passively revealed by someone who doesnt have any skill in detect hidden. The sad part is, this " passive" reveal is the unbalanced part. You shouldnt be 3 tiles away and reveal a stealther if you dont have points invested in detect hidden. Stealthers should be able to stealth right up to you,through you and past you without getting revealed unless you have points in detect hidden. Stealthers have to spend points to hide and stealth, why should people get to reveal with spending anything? It makes absolutely no sense.