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So golem training is going away...

Discussion in 'UHall' started by silent, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. silent

    silent Lore Master
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    Let me first say I don't have a horse in this race, my characters have had combat skills trained for years so this change has no impact on me whatsoever. So from what I gather is that people are upset that other players are whacking on these things to gain skill without actually "playing" the game. It must be that, since golems take damage and must be repaired during training, the weapon also needs to be repaired so no game mechanics are circumvented. There are very few pre-patch golems out there so that can be easily fixed by patching them or deleting them. So how is this different than a crafter sitting in their house burning resources to gain skill or someone training a casting skill not even burning materials with an LRC suit until they max their skill out? Neither of these players are "playing" the game however this is not frowned upon. Can someone explain the difference?
     
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  2. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    The game is being rebranded as MO Mages Online
     
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  3. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I trained my skills using ogre lords, purposefully using inefficient weapons so it takes longer. Works wonderfully too and is actually fun. When I had finished I had made a fair amount of gold, was a Glorious Lord, and had some t-maps.
     
    #3 Viper09, Dec 6, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
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  4. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    Ah - right there with you. Another change that was not needed.

    I'm ok with them removing the golems if they would make all the rest of the training 3x as fast. Each skill gain would have 3x as much change to give you a gain as before. Skills fly along from 0 to 70 but then its a crawl and over 100 its just insanely slow. I don't think it is good for the game to require 40-60 hours of play to max out a skill. Consider that a template requires 4 or more skills at 100 or higher. Consider approx 20 hrs to GM a skill and another 20 hours to 120.

    3 skills at 120 = 120 hours
    3 skills at 100 = 60 hours

    Assume you can train 2 things at once (magery and med for example) and now you are at 180/2 or 90 hours to make a character. Playing 2 hours a day like a normal player (ignore the UO is my job playerbase that we have) and you are talking 45 straight days doing nothing but training to build that character up. That is too long in my opinion. It is discouraging to new players and frustrating to vets messing with templates.

    Many people want to tweak around a template and soulstone don't always work well for this. Maybe they want to drop anat from 120 to 110 to see how it works then decide they want to go back. Guess what? Unless they have an extra 110 soulstoned, they will drop to 110 and then have to work back up to 120 - boring.

    How about this - on each shard you should be able to have a master stone that says 'yes, i've worked up magery to 120. Then any character on that account can touch the stone and set magery to 100, 110, 120 or whatever. It could be a vet reward or something. At any rate, I do get annoyed that I have to 'train up' blacksmith' again or imbuing on a second character. Its tedious and I"m not learning anything.

    Once again - this needs to be more like a GAME and less like a JOB. Its ok to earn things, but once you've earned it - don't make me do it again. Its not fun.
     
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  5. silent

    silent Lore Master
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    Agreed - All skill gain should be accelerated to some degree, target based skills like taming and bard skills should get the most help. all this change will do is discourage xshard play for warrior types and also when new players realize how long it takes to max a combat skill out, they may not stay...
     
  6. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    And not to mention that you take away fencing, swords, archery, throwing, macing by removing the golem but I can still:

    Train Magery, Necro, Mysticicm with a 'cast spell' set to my spacebar and put my heavy stapler on the spacebar.

    Train Spirit Speak with a use skill macro on my spacebar and same stapler.
    Train Bushido by whacking a cat with cast lightning strike and my abused spacebar.

    Train Focus and med by casting spells with my devious spacebar.

    Etc. There are tons of ways to gain skills with no risk. While I am NOT a fan of golem training - it is no worse than other methods.

    I actually train quite a few skills with the old spacebar. I set it up next on my home pc next to my laptop while I work from home and let it work skill while I get work done. I keep an eye out to refresh if my client is going inactive/forcing logout. That way when I finish work I can get started on the annoying task of building armor for said character for the next 2-3 hrs. THEN maybe I can actually get out and play the game hunt, do peerless etc.
     
  7. Samaira

    Samaira Lore Master
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    I'd love this. A couple of months back I foolishly decided I wanted stealth on pretty much all of my characters, forgetting of course how irritating stealth is to train. Hiding is easy (your favourite space bar, Theo!) but when it's at low levels, you can't really hunt and train stealth. I trained it on my main looking for Fel IDOCs, but anyone who plays quieter shards knows the housing is horribly sparse now - walking through miles and miles of empty space gets depressing and old real quick.

    Add to it all, I just hit 120 taming a couple of days ago (four and a half years, apparently I was in no rush!), and while I've always wanted another tamer, I'd rather cut out my own eyes with a hot spoon than do that again. They brought in shard shields, they're selling the mythic tokens... I don't see any reason why we couldn't have an account-bound 'Skill Stone'. Even if gains were as slow as the accelerated quests in New Haven, it would still take away a lot of that tedium.
     
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  8. Mr. Smither1

    Mr. Smither1 Seasoned Veteran
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    If it was an "exploit" why are there 100% poison and 99% poison golems in the first place. I thought the old patch was so golems would take damage from players training on them.
     
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  9. Arcades

    Arcades Sage
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    I like the idea of a "Master Stone" for maybe a 10-yr or 15-yr vet reward. Yes sometimes its fun training a new skill, but a lot of times it sucks waiting.

    I for one say down with LRC b/c it totally ruined the feeling of UO and using reagents to cast spells. LRC should be capped at 60-80%, end of story. Put in a "Reagent Pouch" with limited carrying capacity that can only carry reagents that is insurable.

    And another note, add in a "dismount lance" that is craftable by carpentry & blacksmith only above GM in both, a durability of 1/1 that weighs 250 stones (limits amount carried) and can break after 1-2 usages. When successful hit, will dismount opponent.
     
    #9 Arcades, Dec 6, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
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  10. Good Grief

    Good Grief Journeyman

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    Yep I have an old prepatched golem that doesn't take damage and the only reason I've used it is because I've 120ed every weapon skill at least twice already and it just aint fun to take a month doing it normally.

    Plus for most of us, we're not noobs who enjoy beating on low level crap for hours on end to work a skill. I play mostly to PvP and do high end PvM, but if I decide to change one of my warrior's combat skills I like knowing I can get back to what I WANT to be doing with my precious little playtime in a few hours by beating a golem, not stuck beating on lizardmen for 6 hours straight to go up 10 points in swords.

    Overall though, the entire skill gain process should be adjusted. Some skills take way to damn long to work and others can be 120ed in an hour.
     
  11. Mazulat

    Mazulat Journeyman
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    I gotta say, I am quite happy about the change personally. Having began my characters in the real UO...where ya actually had to 'PLAY' the game to be rewarded with skill, I get tired of instant-gratification whiners pissing and moaning about how they should be able to log in and have a character ready to compete at high levels.
    This change in thinking, and game dynamics, caused irreparable damage to UO as a whole. This game was never intended to be item based or about grinding so you could hear DING!!! every 30 minutes. UO money guys needed more of the younger gamers (not being biased, just seems to be the majority) that they feared would go to wow or ever-crack...so they made everything too easy because the new breed of gamer has no attention span or patience. OMG ... 45 whole days of gameplay to cap out a character??? Skills should be earned thru playing the game. You want two fencers....guess what.... it's gonna take time to train them.
    I am really really hoping this is leading up to No more 'template of the week' pvp. Still won't stop credit card kiddies from buying themselves skill but it's a good start.

    **slips into his flame retardant footie pajamas and grabs some marshmallows to roast from the butt-hurt**
     
  12. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Maybe I'm some kind of freak, but I always enjoyed going out and training characters up as intended - through attended, purposeful, USE.

    When I train up a new character with "X" skill that I've already done, I usually go out to find "new" creatures that have been added since the time I trained most of my characters, and get experience them as a new character would, not as a "ho hum, just another squishy" that someone who took the easy way did - and occasionally find out things about them that those who never fought them except as one-shot nuisances.

    After all, there's never been an expansion where monsters were added SOLELY for finished top-end characters to fight.
     
  13. yars

    yars Lore Keeper
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    actually judging by most of the bug fixes its "deco pixel crack online"
     
  14. MalagAste

    MalagAste Belaern d'Zhaunil
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    I don't know there are 100's of ways to gain skills without much risk at all or just by using something like a speedpad set the button to do this and always repeat... or the use of a good stapler... stack of coins whatever. At any rate it won't stop people from unattended bashing... Just will put an end to the 10 to 20 folk standing about Luna smacking a golem all day.

    My hope is that they took that out so they could actually revamp the stupid golems and make them useful again.
     
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  15. Viper09

    Viper09 Grand Poobah
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    I think it was just coincidence... Golems are naturally resistant to poison for fairly obvious reasons and the addition of damage specific weapons (energy, fire, etc) was to add more variety.
     
    #15 Viper09, Dec 7, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2012
  16. Eaerendil

    Eaerendil Professional Mall Santa and Legendary Piglet
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    It´s always the same: Many people want the easy, cheap and fast way. But this game is easy enough, IMHO. I am really happy about this change. You can perfectly train your skills in dungeons, and by this get imbuing regs, artifacts, t-maps - whatever. Golem-training is so incedibily boring... I trained all my warrior chars up to legendary in dungeons - mostly in the mini-spawns in the abyss...
     
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  17. Gospel

    Gospel Seasoned Veteran
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    It's looking like the people who are upset with this change are the same misinformed crowd that think it takes a month to train a weapon skill normally. In reality it takes about 3 days of monster killing and playing a few hours a day.

    As for those complaining that skills should raise faster, great idea! If only there were some type of in game item that did this- oh, there is.

    The bard skills Provo and disco can be a pain, yeah. But still nothing like you are claiming. Just this last week I got from low 80s in both skills to 120 simply by pressing play on a macro once in a while as I watched TV. Not that hard.

    Animal taming... Yeah it has needed to be faster for years. As soon as they change it though, the same people will be in here crying about how hard they had to work for it back in the day and how Mythic has robbed them of that.

    Here's a thought; shut up and play the game.
     
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  18. Mazulat

    Mazulat Journeyman
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    wow.....
     
  19. syndael

    syndael Adventurer
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    I am very happy they are going to take this out, I myself have tried the golem training once. I found the best way to gain a skill was graveyards into 65 and then I did 65-100 tram despise. I also made money during this time. Then at 100 -120 if I wanted to gain more I just played and let it naturally go up. I will be happy not to see luna packed with people afk training.
     
  20. Winker

    Winker Babbling Loonie
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    Well i was thinking about this and i think they changed it to cut down on the GM's work load. I was golem bashing a few months back and in a the space of 3 days training, i had 3 difrent GM's turn up and tell me how nice the weapon i was using looked.

    So no more golem bashing = no more GM calls about AFK macroing at luna
     
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  21. Eaerendil

    Eaerendil Professional Mall Santa and Legendary Piglet
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    Wow, you are really playing this game, don´t you? Impressive, so much sophistication and dedication...

    :facepalm:
     
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  22. KLOMP

    KLOMP Sage

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    I really wish they hadn't ruined Tram Despise for some minigame. They could have put that crap in any of the dungeons and no one would have cared, but they ruined the only oldschool dungeon anyone used.
     
  23. BeaIank

    BeaIank Babbling Loonie
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    Aye, I too wish we still had old Tram Despise.
    New Haven mine isn't set up properly for training low level toons. It needed a level with Ettins and lizardmen, one with earth elementals and ogres and finally one with ogre lords, titans and cyclopean warriors.
     
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  24. popps

    popps Always Present
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    I am not sure that I understand what the problem is considering that now the game has Scrolls of Alacrity and Scrolls of Transcendency.........
     
  25. Bazer

    Bazer Slightly Crazed
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    now if theyd do something about people beating their horses, cats, and every other pets they have.
     
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  26. Wenchkin

    Wenchkin Babbling Loonie
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    Yup, the UOSPCA wants to have a word with the cat beaters ;)

    I hope the golem fix is the start of fixing those camping training methods - the critters folk hunt for resist need to be sorted so players and pets actually have to work resist properly. Same as shadow eles and satyrs - those need fixed too. It's no wonder dungeons have sat empty with all the safe options. Always seemed funny watching macho warriors beating up small animals and golems.

    Surprised this is only being tackled properly now, but glad to see a change. As long as it's built on. Some welcome fixes in this publish, but there are more big issues still to fix heh.

    Wenchy
     
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  27. Basara

    Basara UO Forum Moderator
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    Just a note -

    If you REALLY want to stand there, beating the same golem over and over for skill gains, the wild golems are 100% Fire resist (and take poison weapon damage) - you just to to stay alive as you hit on them..... :banana:
     
    #27 Basara, Dec 7, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2012
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  28. silent

    silent Lore Master
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    You are looking at this from the perspective of a veteran player, a new player can't afford those scrolls nor do they have the skills to get them.

    Since everyone is for "playing" the game to gain skill they should remove the ability to power game all casting skills and crafting skills. you should only gain in either skill when you are casting a spell for a game play purpose or gain skill in crafting when you are making an item to sell someone or use yourself. Enjoy. Those of you that are bashing the golem training are liars if you deny you've ever maxed out your casting or crafting skills in this manner.
     
  29. Assia Penryn

    Assia Penryn The Sleeping Dragon
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    You know... its a bit offtopic... but I'd like to see Felucca ruleset lands that have skill conditions on them. Perhaps part of the Felucca non housing lands could be repurposed for this. Perhaps a 50 skill area, 75 skill area and a 100 skill area.
    Maybe add a mini champ in each area that gives things more useful to a newer player.

    Where players have to enter through an entrance which checks their skills going through. No use of soulstones, adv char tokens, etc and players can only gain skill to that level. I'm not sure how to combat the imbalanced item issue. However, be cool way to draw players into PvP from the beginning without forcing them to go against the 120 crowd. I think a lot of old pvpers who might come back to putz around (and possibly stay) if they would enjoy themselves in the beginning. It is really hard to feel like resubscribing to a game when in order to do what you enjoy you have to grind a character, grind funds for scrolls/equip to be competitive. I don't pvp much, but if I left uo and came back and had to grind just for a chance to try what I enjoyed... I'd leave quickly too.
     
    #29 Assia Penryn, Dec 7, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2012
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  30. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    IMO this is another change to the game were someone else gets to decide how we should enjoy the game. Unless I am mistaken there was never a publish that said all skill training on monsters was being nerfed and the only way to train was going to be on a golem. The point is anyone who liked training on monsters had that option and your fun. For folks who found beating lizardmen remedial because they wanted to switch swords for mace fighting, or build a new character for the 50th time we had the golems. They were not a bug or an exploit, just players who found a way to use the existing functionality in a way that the Devs did not foresee... and now one that has been around for years. Golem training was equally boring but far more efficient than lizardmen. But it let folks progress to what they considered fun.

    Alas, this change seems like the team telling us what parts of the game we should have fun doing... which probably means fewer players who stick around.
     
  31. Picus at the office

    Picus at the office Certifiable
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    I think it's a poor change sent from those that want to impose thier ideas of what is and isn't fun. Having more options for people to use is the best solution, IMO. After nearly a decade I think it's a little late to make this change but such is life. Sadly this is another sign that the team, and the cheer leaders on stratics, have lost the edge. I find it funny that the same people who seem to rant about everything negative to do with PvP are the same people whom jumped aboard this band wagon, not shocked but funny all the same.
     
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  32. Sauteed Onion

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    Some of my fondest memories was going to guild HQ and raiding the reagent cabinet before a big hunt. Hehe. At some point though, this would have been a great idea; but now people can make totally wicked suits or whatever, and have to jiggle in 100 LRC in the mods they put on it, so if you could take that out of the equation and just carry around an insurable reg pouch, you could make even more over powered suits. It's hard to strike a reasonable balance now because the game has become a totally different animal.. a rather cruelly treated and depraved animal.
     
    #32 Sauteed Onion, Dec 7, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2012
  33. Gorbs

    Gorbs Sage
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    My disappointment is that resources must have been invested for this "fix," but I'm having a hard time understanding how it brings additional enjoyment to the game. For me the slog was always getting to an appropriate level to whirlwind. After that I found hitting multiple targets was better for raising skills than sitting there sparring one target. It's still boring either way though.
     
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  34. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    3 golems with a poison radiant simitar was da bomb. Gotta have a high MR suit and a good bard running bard song for regen since it is hard to leech off a golem.
     
    #34 Merus, Dec 7, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2012
  35. LetheGL

    LetheGL Seasoned Veteran
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    The MM in 'MMO' is massively multiplayer not mostly me. The enjoyment you aren't understanding is having to go out and find other players to train and play with.
     
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  36. Vor

    Vor Grand Inquisitor
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    And lo, sales of mythic tokens increased, and there was much rejoicing at EA.
     
    #36 Vor, Dec 7, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2012
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  37. LordDrago

    LordDrago Certifiable
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    Almost no change ever made in this game will make everyone happy.

    Some will make a lot of people happy and a few people upset.
    Some will make a few happy and a lot of people upset.

    If the devs worried too much about how many people would be upset over every single change they made in the game, a lot of changes just would not happen.
     
  38. Gospel

    Gospel Seasoned Veteran
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    Um, ok? Pretty weak call-out attempt. I didn't claim sophistication or dedication. All I said was its it hard to gain skills. You know UOA holds like 300-400 lines... Eh whatever. Nice try fella.
     
  39. Merus

    Merus Babbling Loonie
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    Except this change has only downside that I can see...

    Those that did not like golem training always had the option to not use it. Those that did use it, did it because they found beating a golem a better use of their gametime... not because they were force to. This change negatively impacts those people with no positive gains for anyone else. Some players want to get the training aspect of building characters or switching skills out of the way. Back in the old days it was the bone wall in deceit, which some found boring so they hunted elsewhere, but we didn't need to take away the bone wall for those that used it.
     
  40. Theo_GL

    Theo_GL Grand Poobah
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    I agree with you here - however, every decision should weigh the pro's with the cons.

    Lets take banishing Golem training:

    Pro's
    People will have to fight normal spawn to gain skill. This benefits...... who? People who already have 120 skill and want to thumb their nose at others building skill?

    Con's
    People who find bashing monsters to rebuild skill will no longer have an easy method. -Annoys your veteran playerbase.


    So here you have made essentially no one happy and annoyed your vet playerbase. That doesn't sound like a good change to me.

    Yes, the purists of the game are rejoycing but honestly if you didn't see someone whacking a golem (lets say all golems worked only in houses and were silent) you would never know the differnce. So while you might have a perceived positive impact - in reality it makes no difference to your gameplay whatsoever whether someone trained a 120 skill from killing mosnters or whacking a golem. It is completely transparent to gameplay.

    This game needs more ways to make skill gain easier, more fun and take the boring out of it. This is what attracts and brings enjoyment. Just because it was hard for you 'back in the day' doesn't mean that is the right way to maintain the game. We need new players and we need them to ENJOY playing not make it like a job. People come in, laugh at the UI, get overwhelmed by the freaking math (I mean I've played 10 years as mostly a crafter and it still hurts my soul to put together a suit with all the caps/mods/imbuing/reforging etc), and find it boring and tedious at low levels then they leave. The only thing keeping this game going are vet players that refuse to leave and old vets who come back to see what has changed. Without finding ways to attract a new playerbase this game will inevitably die. The dev team is a shadow of its former size for a reason.

    On a side note :
    I challenge Prophet to build his 120 skill 'by 3 days of monster killing playing a few hours a day'. Ok you have 6 hours (2 hrs x 3 days), start with purchased 40 skill in swords and track how many hours until 120. No alacrity, no transcendence, no golem.
     
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  41. Zosimus

    Zosimus Grand Inquisitor
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    I use to use earth elems in Shame to train wep skills if I got bored on golem training. Shame has changed but lets not forget there is a small cave/dungeon in ilsh that has earth elems and can give you a paragon . Spawn rate is not to bad.


    Beating on a golem or not depends on the player and how they wanted to play the game. Must of been an issue but I remember a time I was beating on a golem and this person came by and was invising the afkers if they didn't respond. Well I just did my thing and watched ity all. When it came to me she casted the invis spell and I typed in real quick "dont you dare interupt me while I am training." She said " I thought you was not there but I can do what I want" and casted the spell on me and took off.

    So of course since it was not actually illegal to be attending beating on a golem I reported her. The other 2 guys also came out from invis and has said they reported her. One person out of us 5 that was training was afk. So imagine how many players that are annoyed with golem training and doing such acts. Imagine how many were actually attending. Now lets add how many were reported by both sides to the GM's. Probably the best in the end to free the GM's time with the complaints to dump golem training but it wasn't really hurting anything.

    How I play a game and another person may play the game may differ in many apsects. Not all will be happy but that is life eh?
     
  42. Gospel

    Gospel Seasoned Veteran
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    Thinking of the game's development in terms of what will attract new players is unrealistic and has been for a very long time. While there are a few exceptions, not many people want to payable monthly fee for a 15 year old game with 15 years of problems.

    Your pros and cons list seems a bit biased. Ok, let's be honest, your pros and cons list is bullcrap.

    Lets take a second to try and think about this with your skewed logic in mind. When your all-important new player arrives in game, which is more likely to sound interesting? "To train your weapon you must travel dungeons and fight increasingly stronger creatures until you master the skill," or... "Buy a GM golem with money you don't have, stand outside a town and go afk while you beat on it for 2 days."

    Sorry, I don't think anyone but vets are going to take the easy route. Which brings me to your so-called challenge.

    Your argument against the golem change is that it removes the easy way to raise skills and annoys vets. Then you give me a challenge that ignores several of the methods that vets enjoy as a perk of being around for a while. No skill scrolls? Why not? SOAs are extremely common and affordable, why would anyone not use them? Either way, there's advanced skillgain quests to 50. 50-80 goes by quickly by hitting pretty much anything. 80-100 simple enough in new Shame, quick and the mobs are plentiful. 100-120 painted caves, again very easy, make a bandage self key and just stand in a corner.

    Most of training fast is in equipment. Swing every 1.25 seconds with 45 HCI and your skills go up extremely fast. Any smart player knows this, and knows although its a bit more effort, it's quite a bit faster than golem training.

    I'm sure you'll find some detail to nitpick, that's usually the first line of defense for your type, but as far as your ridiculous pros and cons list, you don't have a leg to stand on. I think you're wasting your talents on UO, you should be running for public office.
     
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  43. Bobar

    Bobar Babbling Loonie
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    Not broken?.......Fixed.

    Regardless of all the arguments for and against the fact is that seeing players and golems in Luna is a constant. It is therefore glaringly obvious that it is a method players will and do use.
    So altho they do nobody any harm it is fixed and we will soon see them no more.
     
    #43 Bobar, Dec 7, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2012
  44. CovenantX

    CovenantX Babbling Loonie
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    This golem change only breaks my Pre-patch golem (setting it's poison resist from 100 to 80)... I don't care, but, TBH this change is one of those things that should have happened long ago before people became so use to it being a fast & easy way to train weapon skills. It's still not going to be hard... but it won't be as easy to Afk it, which is always a good thing... regardless.

    Archers & throwers still have slimes in the underworld for skill-gains which are actually about the same speed as golems but you can start at a lower skill level.
    Melee weapon skills the hard part is getting to 70.0 wep/tactics to use specials, after that point whirlwind is pretty fast for gains at any level 1 champ spawn, you can do despise/rat spawn a few times and be 120.0 wep skill by time you finish if you solo it.

    Crystal ball of knowledge might be of more use, especially with the dungeon revamps.

    Keep the good stuff coming Devs!
     
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  45. Lythos-

    Lythos- Lore Keeper
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    It all boils down to harassment. People automatically think if you're training of any kind then you're automatically unattended or guilty of something. Even if you're inside your house and someone walks by they methodically stalk you. For instance i was imbuing a suit the other day and this random stranger walked all around my house and finally parked himself at my front steps and just stood there until i got tired of looking at his name and came out. If you did this sort of thing irl you'd be put in a cage for years and charged with a felony so why is it tolerated in game?

    As far as the golems, it was rather annoying to see them in luna but they didn't have to kill them period after a whole decade and even a nerf.
     
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  46. GalenKnighthawke

    GalenKnighthawke Grand Poobah
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    Do we know what the change exactly was?

    Discussion is premature unless we do. If we do I haven't seen it written down anyplace.

    Since the cat's already out in terms of discussing the issue generically, I am constrained to add that this is yet another instance where a seeming-consensus emerged ("golem training is bad for various reasons") and no counter-argument emerged in great numbers until a change was implemented.

    Here on Stratics we seem to have formed a certain dynamic wherein a consensus will emerge somewhat rapidly, anyone who bucks that consensus is somewhat ill-treated, and then when changes in the game conflate around that conventional wisdom, the counter-argument finally comes out of the darkness and becomes conventional wisdom more-or-less overnight.

    The golem issue isn't the best example but it, in broad strokes, still fits.

    On the issue itself, golem training: In general I think skills gain too slowly unless someone finds a trick. This has always been the case. Literally always. As far back as my UO memory goes anyway (Second Age expansion). By contrast, Fame and Karma go up far too quickly, leading to a a very odd circumstance where, say, a Sowrdsman could be Glorious Lord with a Swordsmanship skill underneath GM level.

    -Galen's player
     
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  47. NuSair

    NuSair Babbling Loonie
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    Personally, I like that they are getting rid of golem training. I think that it encourages AFK training and circumvents the part of actually earning your still.

    But, the issue I have with it, and generally why I didn't ***** about it, is because of 100% LRC suits. You can train up a mage, all the way up to 120, without ever leaving your house or bank. Or any casting skill really. Yes, it's unfair/not on par with working up other skills. But, if you are still allowing it for casting skills, why are you removing it from combat skills.

    Then again, I am all for them removing LRC from the game as well.
     
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  48. Tazar

    Tazar Guest

    Actually - getting to 70.0 is fairly quick and easy. Buy the skill up to 40 in Haven (Sorry Siegers) and then go to the Skeleton Passage between level 2 and 3 of Covetous and fight the Skeletons. There are a lot there - it is a quick respawn - and there is a side passage with no spawn by the entrance to level 3 of Covetous that can be used to help keep things under control. 40 to 70 goes quickly for any melee skill.
     
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  49. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    The new training dummy will take you to 60
     
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  50. Lady Storm

    Lady Storm Crazed Zealot
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    Hmm the golem fix is going to be fine....
    Unless you like standing in town beating a poor thing for hours... I prefer to go find the critters that raise the skills. Like Demons for parry as an example great hunting at the maze.
    Young can do the new dungeon to start mongbats can get them going...
    I do not see the fuss over a long standing bug that needed fixing.
     
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