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So how does "damage all" eater stack with the regular ones?

Discussion in 'UO Test Center' started by Stupid Miner, Mar 27, 2010.

  1. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    So... does "damage all" eater add on to the other types?
    20% Fire Eater + 10% "damage all" Eater = 30% Fire Eater, 10% for everything else?

    and how do the caps work when combining the two?
    can you get 18% Damage All *and* 30% regular Eater for a total of 48% Eater?

    Question more directed at Mesanna, but if anyone could test, that'd be great.
     
  2. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    Yessir you got it right
     
  3. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Hm... if both of the things are true... that's incredibly powerful and it'd be to my advantage to delete this thread right away so other people don't figure this out :p

    And by powerful I mean: "taunt the Stygian Dragon to his face and say mean things about his mother" powerful.

    Granted, due to the slight delay in healing, the Stygian can still kill in less than a second if Firebreath and Wing Attack go off at the same time (which happens all too often).
     
  4. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Also, with the current equipment, those caps aren't attainable, but once they are...
     
  5. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    Then I cant kill people in 2 to 3 dual proc heavy moving shot =(
     
  6. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Heavy Moving shot nothing, disarm and double double shot with a Yumi ;)
     
  7. Gelf

    Gelf Guest

    r u saying that the damage eaters go off 100% of the time(haven't tested them yet)? because the soul charge only goes off 30%(30% soulcharge) of the time then u only get a small amount of mana(guessin 30%).if the eaters operate the same a 30% eater would only convert 9% of damage(for type) on average
     
  8. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Nope, functions like Reflect Physical damage in that it goes off for every hit.
    the % is the % of damage returned as health.
     
  9. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    I do that to the poor dude dismount disarmed running around with his head cut off. :lol: Yea it's evil.
     
  10. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    Soul charge should go off 100% of the time.
    So do the eaters.

    Soul charge and eaters relate how much damage is returned, not the chance to go off.
     
  11. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    Wait i am confused I use soul charge all the time and I dont get mana back every time!
     
  12. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    It seems to work fine for me.
    At 30% soul charge... and I go out and get hit for 30dmg and about 2 seconds later a number 9 will show above my head and my mana increases by that value...
     
  13. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    hmmm Do you get the message some of the damage has been converted every time ? I dont! I will have to go check the numbers (there hard for me to read)Btw I am talking about production shard or is this just test?

    ok just tested this on ls and I do not get mana back every time its about 1 in 3-4 hits!

    soul charge has about a 30% chance to go off and seems to give about 30% mana back when it does!
     
  14. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    You should notice that the effect fires off every time.

    The message only shows up every few seconds to prevent players from getting huge amounts of spam.

    Same thing for the damage eaters. The effect is 100% of the time, but the message only fires every few seconds.
     
  15. Storm

    Storm UO Forum Moderator
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    Ok that makes sense now ! I regenerate mana so fast its hard to tell by the numbers.
     
  16. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Is that correct in pvp also?
     
  17. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    ... pardon me while I go kill Felucca and win UO :)
     
  18. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    So for a geared pvp mage that's fighting someone with 30% Fire Eater it's essentially taking away 15% of their SDI in all fire based spells correct? and only 5% for a inscription mage? Poor mages :(.
     
  19. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    This publish is blowing my mind, haha. Ahhh.

    Time for me to finish my Garg dexxer I guess ;P.
     
  20. Gelf

    Gelf Guest

    Had to test the soul charge prop. It does in fact go off 100%, though had to disrobe and soulstone off med to tell(had way too much MR i guess).


    My guess is this is more aligned to fighters and caster/fighter hybrids for best affect.already thinkin about some nice hybrids w/ damage eaters and soul charge items equiped
     
  21. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    You won't even need a gargoyle dexxer with that 20% to all elemental eater shield being only human.

    Does anyone know if the HP gained through an eater property will heal through mortals and poison?
     
  22. Idk if this has been answered already but does does Parry have an effect on the eaters?

    Also with all the new properties especially Kinetic etc, how do they handle things like split damage types? Does Kinetic cover all Phys (including EQ etc)?
     
  23. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    Parry has no effect on eater properties.
    Eaters operate independently so they should trigger off multiple/split damage types.

    In the case of Kinetic. It operates of physical damage. So earthquake would trigger the kinetic eater property.

    Eaters will regen through mortal or poison.
     
  24. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    This eater stuff...holy crap.

    i mean especially that shield with the eaters. if i'm running a mage with my left hand free, i could even just toss on that shield if i see big dmg comming, and drop it the second the damage hits, heal, etc.



    The fire eater property will get eaten up quickly. if i cast a big combo on someone, and they have max fire eater, or god forbid somehow hit that 48% crap. Not only then can you heal stone, bandage, potion, etc etc. you can now recover a good amount of health from items like this?

    Like puni mentioned, this is almost like taking away 15% sdi from a mage, and it won't be long before people catch onto this and build it into suits.
     
  25. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    ... interesting to note that this will decrease the overall damage done in PvP.
    Doesn't seem to give one template a large advantage over others, they all get their damage reduced.
     
  26. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    I realize that, anymore its hard enough to do enough damage in a quick period of time to kill someone before they ...run.. away.

    But i do also realize, that fire will be the eater that people will attempt to load up on, followed by kinetic.

    imho, this whole idea of a mod is not good, unless the cap for it is much much lower. say 20% cap and no item has more than 5%(maybe 10% on it)

    Think this shield with 20% fire cold poison energy is just a problem waiting to happen.

    If absolutely no one agrees with me i'll let it go and play it out. But i'll be the first to admit i'll abuse the heck out of it haha.
     
  27. G.v.P

    G.v.P Stratics Legend
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    Will be a big have/ have not though for awhile, I'd assume these items aren't going to be that easy to obtain.
     
  28. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Actually most of these are non med so mainly dexers will feel the better effects of this. And there's alot less physical eater mods then there are fire. Fire spells are the bulk of a mages damage and if players equip these items to about 30% fire eater most mages will be casting as if they had -15% SDI with anything fire based. That's a max SDI mage anyways and they won't be able to stack SDI to balance out there damage to normal like you'd be able to with HCI/HLA,and DCI/HLD.
     
  29. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    This eater thing will of course favors dexers more than mages...
    Dexers has armor ignore specials to completely bypass the effects of damage eaters as well while mages are shafted...
    There's no cold damage flame strike or poison damage explosion... so all dexers stacks 48 fire eater... scribe mage Explosion FS him for 30 then 40 and 1 second later the dexer auto healed back 14 and 19 so the biggest mage combo assuming the dexer just stood around picking his nose and let the mage cast it will take a whooping 37 damage... and then the dexer can just turn around and instantly slap you with 35damage AI + Fireball + velocity for 50ish dmg. AI is direct dmg thus unaffected by damage eater. And if mage stacks kinetic eater to 48... an archer can swap on quiver and instantly change his damage type and makes your eater mods useless BUT of course this is a luxury only ARCHERS have (you know the same group of people that also has access to dual damage proc AI that already ignores target eaters)...

    Mages cant just throw on a cape and makes his spell do other damage type... and mages without explosion/fireball/flame strike what else they got? They gonna have to LESSER POISON Energy Bolt kill people like that? Oh isnt there a shield that eats 20% of all elements thats also not a SC shield that's clearly for dexer use only already???

    Mage doesnt even has a spell that ignores target resists and deal a huge damage like AI and only cost very little mana (this means mages have no mean to bypass the effect of damage eaters)

    Sorry for the whining but yea I guess I will finally have to soulstone all my mage related skills across all my PvP mages and just turn them all into some kind of archers when UO gets crazy like that.
     
  30. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Lets see...
    Two Non-meddable Armor pieces: Basilisk Hide, Void Infused Kilt. They're the two Damage All Eaters. 1 for gargoyles, 1 for humans.

    Humans:
    Medable:
    20% Kinetic Eater from Lavaliere. Garg/Human.

    Non-Med or Non-SC
    20% Elemental from Wall of Hungry Mouths.
    10% Fire Eater from Jade War Axe (Reasonable PvP weapon)
    20% Fire Eater from Draconi's Wrath (but it's a weak PvP weapon)
    10% Damage All from Basilisk Hide.

    Trade off between shield or potions, but 30% Fire Eater is attainable, 40% maximum.
    Mages get up to 20% Kinetic Eater.

    So, for humans it seems a bit uneven. Worth noting though, without Mage Armor fighter's regeneration will be terrible. Especially without Mana Leech.

    Worth mentioning I tested Kinetic Resonance with a friend and there was still Resonance even against a non-physical damage weapon.

    I think it'd be best for an "either/or" effect. Meaning a maximum of 30% Eater, or 18% Damage All, but the effects don't stack. So 20% Fire Eater + 10% Damage Eater would result in 20% Fire, 10% everything else.
     
  31. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    Have you tested these hypotheses directly on test center or are you just speculating? From the tone it sounds more speculative.
    You've verified directly AI isnt affected?
    You've verified directly elemental damage modifier has an effect on weapon's Eater resistance?
    Not trying to say you haven't if you have, but the post sounds speculative, specially since it's not currently possible to get 48% of any Damage Eater.
    Did you calculate the effects of Curse on the numbers?
     
  32. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    1. AI isnt affected tested on TC with garg wearing Void Enfused Kilt... never regained any damage. Fireball, harm, FS, explosion, magic arrow, nether bolt, poison, strangle all are affected.

    2. Yes indeed

    3. Yes, curse or not you regen base on how much you get hit. The more you get hit for the more your eater will regen.

    4. It's real simple you can try it out too.

    The fact that mages get shafted when dexers has a clear choice what type to stack makes it real hard for mages. It's easy to see the next template of the year with all the new items will probably remain archers and next runner up will probably be parry dexers.
     
  33. Thanks! That answers the two remaining questions I've been trying to ask (but gave up on the wording). It sounds like it didn't affect the frequency of the effect going off either.
     
  34. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    Yep ment non SC
     
  35. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    AI is direct damage just like death strike and lightning strike criticals they arn't based on any resist. (which kind of sucks in this eater case).
     
  36. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    And they are all dexers skills... DEV really needs to open their eyes. They already hindered mage the arguably hardest templates to play to a point its a joke and now they are putting in damage eaters clearly siding the dexers and fire being one of the EASIEST eater type to cap out...
     
  37. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    I know. I play mainly a dexer and this is just going to make good mage players not want to play once these items catch on in pvp. It's going to be a real bummer seeing another flood of throwing/archery characters after this publish.

    It should be rendered to being a pvm only mod like the swamp dragon armor is.
     
  38. Cetric

    Cetric Grand Inquisitor
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    *Like Button*
     
  39. WarUltima

    WarUltima Babbling Loonie
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    I also forgot to answer one of the pervious posters. I simply used garg (10% eat all) eat all kilts (a new arty) and did those tests. The results are straight forward... When I get hit by a FS for 80 dmg it healed for 8, magic arrow for 10 it heals 1 Mind Blast for 50 it healed 5.
    Eat All Doesnt heal the damage from AI

    Then picks up the shield with 20 Fire/Cold/Poison/Energy eater same result for mage spells... FS for 80 it heals 16 ect still doesnt heal damage from AI. I used a 100% physical bow and shot a normal arrow for 40ish with the shield on (no kilt) doesnt heal anything because the shield has no physical eater. Puts on quiver of rage 20 each damage type and hits for 40 it healed for 6 to 7 dmg and with quiver of rage on AI... no heal...

    Combine both eat all kilt and the shield works as the Designer said they stacked now FS hits for 80 it heals me for 24dmg Switch to composite and AI... no heal...

    It's not a speculation and only speculating part is assuming the 48% eater will indeed stack CORRECTLY as the UO DESIGNER said. And in this case you will have even more people playing archers (obviously the most powerful pvp templates) especially when one of their most commonly used specials completely negates damage eater and they can also simply switch a quiver and completely change their damage output type... are we suppose to carry 10 different suits on us now?

    Tiny focus casting doesnt cut half damage spells, and dexers can still offscreen when **** goes bad. And Fire is the most important damage type for mages on the field, take that and drop all fire spells dmg to half you eliminates mage from UO PvP. With the introduction of imbuing you see a lot more godly dexers and this damage eater thing to me is like sealing the deal and finally remove mages from PvP.
     
  40. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    There are a few aspects to eater properties that were taken into consideration to make eater properties a bit more friendly. If the current iteration proves to be -too- overpowered, they will be scaled back to a less imbalanced version.
     
  41. puni666

    puni666 Slightly Crazed
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    I'm glad you pay attention. What are the changes?
     
  42. [JD]

    [JD] Guest

    I was going to ask if Kinetic does spell damage only or also heals based on physical weapon dmg, but looks like WarUltima already tested

    Is there a reason why they don't work against weapons and only mages have to suffer?
     
  43. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    They don't fire off against Direct damage.

    Direct damage is done by the specials Armour Ignore, and Lightning strike (when it procs)

    Direct damage is also done by the pain strike spell.

    There are a few interesting balances slated for damage eater properties.
    One of them being the removal of stacking between the All Damage and particular damage types.

    This would lower possible cap to 30% on any particular damage type.
    Additionally they factor off damage done and heal per instance.
    So if you have 30% fire eater and are hit for 20 from explosion and 30 from flame strike. And a mage hits you with that combo.
    You will take 50 damage, 3 seconds later you will receive 10 health, then 3 seconds after that 7 health assuming explosion hit first.


    Additionally, since the majority of the eater property items are on non-medible items, this means that they are less likely to be used by templates that rely heavily on mana regen. In PvM this is less of an issue since mana leech is based on damage done, but in PvP mana regeneration is not as easy.
    This makes armor based eaters less popular for heavy mana use templates. (Chiv dependent, bushido dependent, necro hybrids etc.)
    Additionally most of the eater items skimp on some of the more popular PvP item mods intentionally.


    Casting focus 12% cap (17% with GM inscribe)
    Resonance 40% cap ( 20% currently available off items)

    Since they are factored separately you can fail resonance and still succeed at casting focus.
     
  44. Stupid Miner

    Stupid Miner Guest

    So not even the All Damage Eater works against direct damage?

    Wait... those numbers don't seem to add up.
    20 * .3 = 6 and
    30 * .3 = 9
    So why do you have 10 and 7?

    ... there aren't any PvP templates that aren't dependent on mana. Even a plain fighter needs lots of mana for special moves.
     
  45. Logrus

    Logrus UO Legend
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    -Post 2:47 am, it was late and I was tired so just divided by 3.( 1/3rd damage was the initial cap for specific eaters when I wrote the design documents but 30% was cleaner to code)


    All damage eater basically combines all the elemental damage types. Consider direct damage to be that un-resistible, pure, true damage that is unmodded in any way. Eaters just dont handle that. (They dont like the taste).


    The issue with mages and eaters, is kind of tricky. Initially I had a few more mage wear friendly eaters. After testing them I had to either take them out or make them non mage friendly.

    Because so many templates rely on mana, if say I made a nice badass eater chest piece that mages would love. Chances are that it would be really good for, bushido, chiv, necro dexer, archer, ninja, tamer and whatever else template out there.
    The fact is a mage vs a pure dexer, tends to be a more even fight, than a mage vs one of those "hybrid"-ish templates.

    So I made it a buff to both, then it was exponentially better for the hybrid than the mage, instead of being equally better for both.